Suns make offer to Johnson

Suns make offer to Johnson
By Mike Tulumello, Tribune
July 7, 2005
The decision to leave Joe Johnson unsigned in October will prove costly to the Suns.
The club, as expected, has made an offer to the restricted free agent, an NBA source said.
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The six-year offer is believed to be in the range of $10 million a year.

The club made an offer to Johnson last fall that was believed to be in the range of $8 million a year, but the two sides couldn’t reach an agreement. Johnson said later that they were "close" to a deal.

The Suns are hoping they won’t be forced to match a maximum offer made by another team.

Such teams as Atlanta, Cleveland and the Los Angeles Clippers are believed to be interested in Johnson. They can only give Johnson a five-year contract under NBA rules, but it could reach up to the range of $13 million or so per season.

But once a team makes the offer, its money is tied up while the Suns decide whether to match. If they do, then the team making the offer could come away with little or nothing, while other teams sign the other available free agents.
http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/index.php?sty=44228

if there was only some way mark cuban could clear that kind of capspace and force the suns to have to pay him the max... that would be sweet. (and revenge for nash)

I hope the cavs offer him the max!

W/Alllen & now Redd out of the running...c'mon Cleveland; max him out! Make the Suns spend!

Yea, you have to believe Cleveland will offer him the max, they are running out of options.

i thought this said spurs

I hope EVERY team with cap space offers him the max. It would serve the Suns right for allowing a guy, who is as valuable to their team as Johnson, to get into free agency.

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Originally Posted by IcemanCometh

i thought this said spurs

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the only thing we can offer him is the mle... and will purdue's mask.

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Originally Posted by ginobili_is_god

Joe Johnson is NOT a MAX player. That would be crazy. He is good but not that good. I know the Cavs want him but not for that much. Common now.

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as fragile as phoenix is about their "team" they wouldnt want to let him go. they'd match something nuts like that i think.

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Originally Posted by ginobili_is_god

they cant afford it salary wise though. They will need to max amare, and Nash has a big contract. Kurt thomas cant be that cheap either. they are not about to pay joe more than a quarter of their team's salary

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thats interesting... so you're saying it would break them? do you think the cav's could win in a bidding war?

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Originally Posted by ginobili_is_god

Yes. The Suns cannot afford the max when they could get a similar player like Bobby Simmons for less. Cuttino is also a free agent. If the Cavs offer the max, they will get him. I don't see Ferry doing that though. You cannot build a team around Joe Johnson (if LeBron leaves in 2 years).

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I love it...The Suns better win it next year because they are spending themselves into a huge hole for the future. At the rate they are going they will be over the cap with their starting 5 when Amare is maxed out...They already have Nash at near max, Matriz at max, Johnson at near max to max. Kurt Thomas at 3/4 max...add Studamire to that payroll and they will be filling the rest of their roster with vet minimum players...

Don't think the Suns can just get a similar player like Simmmons. Believe they're cap limited. Come on Sterling pay back for Q and put the screws to the Suns.

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Originally Posted by GINNNNNNNNNNNNOBILI

Yea, you have to believe Cleveland will offer him the max, they are running out of options.

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Yes indeed. The Cadavers are running out of options. Allen - Gone; Redd - Gone. Who's left? Joe Johnson and Larry Hughes.

I imagine they'll go hard after JJ, but Larry Hughes is probably the more realistic possibility. Instead of ponying up a bunch of cash, Washington just may let him walk. You know the Suns won't let JJ walk.

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Originally Posted by CosmicCowboy

add Studamire to that payroll and they will be filling the rest of their roster with vet minimum players...

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not to mention, no point guard of the future... which is what makes that team go. (no young nash coming along in the system)

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Originally Posted by SenorSpur

I hope EVERY team with cap space offers him the max. It would serve the Suns right for allowing a guy, who is as valuable to their team as Johnson, to get into free agency.

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Puhlease, the most another team can offer is 5yr/$70mil.. The Suns would be more than happy to match that; cheaper then the contract they're offering.

:fro

Cleveland should go all out on Johnson. He is a great player and the suns won't be the same without him.

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Originally Posted by BillsCarnage

Puhlease, the most another team can offer is 5yr/$70mil.. The Suns would be more than happy to match that; cheaper then the contract they're offering.

:fro

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How is 5 yr/$70mil less than the 6 yr/$10 per year that the Suns are reportedly offering?

go all out Cleveland :lol

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Originally Posted by picnroll

How is 5 yr/$70mil less than the 6 yr/$10 per year that the Suns are reportedly offering?

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Where have you heard this? I've seen hyde nor hair of any #'s yet.

The Suns said they don't even want him to go to other teams. Meaning their first offer was going to be better than anything another team can offer. Just because it's below max doesn't mean it's below the 5yr/$70 max. I'm guessing it's 6yr/$80mil

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Originally Posted by ducks

The six-year offer is believed to be in the range of $10 million a year.

Such teams as Atlanta, Cleveland and the Los Angeles Clippers are believed to be interested in Johnson. They can only give Johnson a five-year contract under NBA rules, but it could reach up to the range of $13 million or so per season.

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did anyone else read this?

Did you read the first post in the thread?

If I was Joe Johnosn I would be insulted, no make that outraged at those cheap bastards trying to low ball me and I'd sit out the year. :lol

it's speculation still. I find those #'s hard to believe since the Suns said they didn't want him to get to any other teams. But, if that is what the Suns are offering then they'll have to up their bid.

I think Joe Johnson is underappreciated by the suns organization. He should be insulted by their first bid and go to Cleveland without any thought.

in 2 or 3 years the Suns starters will be @ $55-$60mil.. just for the starters.

OUCH.

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Originally Posted by ginobili_is_god

Nash has tons of years left in him. they have no need to worry about a PG.

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those guys are lost without him out there, and he's 31/32 and playing heavy mins... i didnt say they needed to worry about his spot, only that getting a good backup to get him some rest would have been thing 1a to do this summer.

How do you determine a players max pay?

I am from Arkansas. I watched him play HS and with the Razorbacks. I think I am one of the few people who's opinion on him has somewhat better credit.

... He will be a stud. Just wait til he has 100% confidense in his ability. I watched this dude drop 35 straight NBA range 3's at Bud Walton Arena, home of the Hogs. After he missed on the 36th shot Nolan yelled "See what you can do with confidense son".

I'm telling you. You guys haven't seen nothing out of Joe yet. His defense is what needs the most work though.

Go ahead and max him, he's gunna get it anyways here in a few years. All he has to do for himself is believe and it's on.

this is the reason y there havent been that many teams winnin champions, its been like only 6 teams like the last 25 years. how the hell do u build a winner when every
slightly above average player is demandin the max contracts.

thats ridiculous, a max player is some one of a duncan, shaq, jordan variety
now everybody seems to be gettin one

If they lose him, the Suns will not be back where they were last season. It just won't happen.

I told you all the Suns were through. Fuckers just don't listen to me.

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Originally Posted by SequSpur

I told you all the Suns were through. Fuckers just don't listen to me.

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Johnson backs = chance for championship

All the games were close but the suns were fatigued by the mavericks. They had no time to recooperate and Johnson wasn't there for the first 2 games I believe. Johnson healthy and a fresher suns team could equal defeat for San Antonio.

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Originally Posted by Spursdaone

All the games were close but the suns were fatigued by the mavericks. They had no time to recooperate and Johnson wasn't there for the first 2 games I believe. Johnson healthy and a fresher suns team could equal defeat for San Antonio.

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It's pretty sad when a team is "fatigued" by the Mavs. Too bad the Suns, with a healthy JJ, couldn't take care of the Mavs earlier. If they were so good they would have torn them apart, but they weren't and they didn't.

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Originally Posted by Spursdaone

All the games were close but the suns were fatigued by the mavericks. They had no time to recooperate and Johnson wasn't there for the first 2 games I believe. Johnson healthy and a fresher suns team could equal defeat for San Antonio.

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Suns went to six games with the Mavs but were fatigued? Spurs went to six games with the sonics and they weren't?

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Originally Posted by tophy7

Suns went to six games with the Mavs but were fatigued? Spurs went to six games with the sonics and they weren't?

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let me guess the answer to this one:

the suns had 1 and a half days to get ready for the spurs... that makes it like a 7 game series.

Joe Johnson is a big part of the team. If he was healthy they would've won probably in 5 games. That would mean 2 extra days of rest. That would be huge because of the way they play.

If anything the starters wouldn't have to play the whole game.

ok so i was wrong about the answer...

I'd just counter with this, the series between mavs and suns had no defense so how can 1 team be worn down? If anything Spurs would be fatigued considering they actually had to play defense to win the series and not to mention Duncan went down in game 6.

.... and Sonics big men were pounding the crap out of Parker and Manu while Suns were waltzing through the _allas defense. Suns likely won't even get past Dallas or Houston to the WCFs next year.

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Originally Posted by Spursdaone

Joe Johnson is a big part of the team. If he was healthy they would've won probably in 5 games. That would mean 2 extra days of rest. That would be huge because of the way they play.

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It didn't go down that way so get the fuck over it dude. The Spurs won it all, face it. Fucking troll.

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Originally Posted by Spursdaone

Joe Johnson is a big part of the team. If he was healthy they would've won probably in 5 games. That would mean 2 extra days of rest. That would be huge because of the way they play.

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And if Duncan was healthy it would've been a sweep. Case in point, he didn't have that lift he usually does when amare blocked him.

I find it funny you make all the excuses for wolves and suns but Spurs aren't allowed to use any excuses, oh well Spurs still won the title and that's all that matters right? Or were pissed they won it?

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Originally Posted by midgetonadonkey

It didn't go down that way so get the fuck over it dude. The Spurs won it all, face it. Fucking troll.

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Man I am fucking tired of listening to your fucking mouth. You don't have anything intelligent to say so shut up. I will do it for you on the ignore list.

Are you talking about the same team that got their asses kicked by the Spurs all year except the time they barely beat a Spurs team playing without Duncan and Parker?

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Originally Posted by Spursdaone

Man I am fucking tired of listening to your fucking mouth. You don't have anything intelligent to say so shut up. I will do it for you on the ignore list.

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And you do? You keep talking about this would've, could've, should've shit. Just face it, the Spurs are fucking good. Ignore me. I dont' give a fuck. You are a dumb little 13 year old that is probably up way past your bed time.

The suns will be better next year and San Antonio better get SAR or some free agent or they could be in trouble. I think Phoenix is better without Q as long as they have a replacement which is Bell.

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Originally Posted by Spursdaone

The suns will be better next year and San Antonio better get SAR or some free agent or they could be in trouble. I think Phoenix is better without Q as long as they have a replacement which is Bell.

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Kurt Thomas will slow them down, Nash is a year older and slower. If JJ leaves, they are done. The better start scouting lottery players.

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Originally Posted by Spursdaone

The suns will be better next year and San Antonio better get SAR or some free agent or they could be in trouble. I think Phoenix is better without Q as long as they have a replacement which is Bell.

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did not q make the most three's in suns history

He did but somehow they are better off without him. :rolleyes

Don't reply with facts because he will counter with an excuse

the suns will get destroyed again next year, tim and manu will rest this summer for the first time in years.

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Originally Posted by midgetonadonkey

Kurt Thomas will slow them down, Nash is a year older and slower. If JJ leaves, they are done. The better start scouting lottery players.

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i'll quote you hunter... just in case some people are on ignore...

and i'll add, if the moves they made were to get past us... its not enough. let alone enough to beat a miami or detroit.

I agree he sucked in the postseason but it was his first postseason
and they could have let him drive or create not just shot three's

if kurt thomas was all that why did the knicks did not make the playoffs?

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Originally Posted by tophy7

Don't reply with facts because he will counter with an excuse

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He will probably say some bullshit like "well he missed them when they counted" or "his two handed horn celebration distracted the other players." The dude is a fucking dildo.

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Originally Posted by ducks

did not q make the most three's in suns history

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He only shot 33% from 3's and was very inconsistent. When he is on he is fun to watch but he was off alot to. Joe Johnson and Bell are more consistent shooters even but they take less shots from far out. Bell is a better defender than Q and so Joe Johnson. Q. is the one that struggled the most in the playoffs.

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Originally Posted by Spursdaone

He only shot 33% from 3's and was very inconsistent. When he is on he is fun to watch but he was off alot to. Joe Johnson and Bell are more consistent shooters even but they take less shots from far out. Bell is a better defender than Q and so Joe Johnson. Q. is the one that struggled the most in the playoffs.

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There's the excuse.

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Originally Posted by midgetonadonkey

There's the excuse.

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of course it's the garnett syndrome.

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Originally Posted by Spursdaone

He only shot 33% from 3's and was very inconsistent. When he is on he is fun to watch but he was off alot to. Joe Johnson and Bell are more consistent shooters even but they take less shots from far out. Bell is a better defender than Q and so Joe Johnson. Q. is the one that struggled the most in the playoffs.

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Spurs defense had nothing to do with Q struggling? Bell will struggle as well

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Originally Posted by ginobili_is_god

U cannot be a Spurs fan. U like Garnett, the Suns, and probably jock Ray Ray too. How could the Spurs be in trouble? They will have everyone back next year. The Suns just lost their best shooter. Give me a break. The only reason the Suns were so good is cuz they were fast and shot tons of threes. Now they have just reduced that.

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He isn't. He is a 12 year old that probably gets off on the fact that he pisses people off. Most 12 year olds jack off to pictures of titties, but he jacks off to people getting mad. If we ignore him, his baby erections will subside and he will disappear.

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Originally Posted by Spursdaone

He only shot 33% from 3's and was very inconsistent. When he is on he is fun to watch but he was off alot to. Joe Johnson and Bell are more consistent shooters even but they take less shots from far out. Bell is a better defender than Q and so Joe Johnson. Q. is the one that struggled the most in the playoffs.

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that is on the coach not the player
he has the green light and he could drive and create

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Originally Posted by ginobili_is_god

U cannot be a Spurs fan. U like Garnett, the Suns, and probably jock Ray Ray too. How could the Spurs be in trouble? They will have everyone back next year. The Suns just lost their best shooter. Give me a break. The only reason the Suns were so good is cuz they were fast and shot tons of threes. Now they have just reduced that.

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I think you mixed up quality shots with quantity shots. Yes Q. was somewhat important to that team but he shot under 40% from the field. Marion was also a little weak from shooting but they are replacing him with a mid range game which they didn't have much of with Kurt Thomas. He shoots at 47% and also rebounds very well. He might slow them down a fraction worth but Amare will still be one of the first to be there on the fast break.

suns might have been better off trading marion then q because marion is making the max

Q struggled. Matrix sucked balls and will suck balls again should the Suns have to play the Spurs. Expecting Kurt Thomas to slow a healthy Duncan. Good luck. And Devin Brown may even be healthy, a guy that was playing great just before his back went out. Add whatever the Spurs bring with MLE, LLE, maybe a Rasho trade. Suns have lost ground to the Spurs.

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Originally Posted by Spursdaone

I think you mixed up quality shots with quantity shots. Yes Q. was somewhat important to that team but he shot under 40% from the field. Marion was also a little weak from shooting but they are replacing him with a mid range game which they didn't have much of with Kurt Thomas. He shoots at 47% and also rebounds very well. He might slow them down a fraction worth but Amare will still be one of the first to be there on the fast break.

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Didn't the whole team just shoot quantity shots? They shattered the record of 3 pointers attempted. It wasn't just Q that did it, it was the whole team.

suns could have gotten more for marion then q

Duncan owned Kurt Thomas in the finals when they met in 99 and that was Duncan's 2nd year, how the hell is he going to slow him down now that Duncan is a vet who will have an uninterrupted preseason?

I'm not guaranteeing a sun win but I think the spurs should still try to get better since the suns are getting better. A 100% sun team is pretty scary for every team. The spurs might be the answer to them but they are switching positions and that might make it harder for players to drive since they are bigger now. They are deep so they might play more physical since there are backups.

Spurs weren't 100%, no excuse, suns lost.

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Originally Posted by Spursdaone

I'm not guaranteeing a sun win but I think the spurs should still try to get better since the suns are getting better. A 100% sun team is pretty scary for every team. The spurs might be the answer to them but they are switching positions and that might make it harder for players to drive since they are bigger now. They are deep so they might play more physical since there are backups.

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do you think it makes them better than detroit? cause the spurs beat those guys in 7 (and it should have been 6)

I am not 100% convinced a healthy joe johnson from game one on if the spurs would have won


I think spurs win in 6 but who knows for sure

spurs could have made the adjustments maybe next year we will know

No Hunter. No Q. Jackson? No McCarthy. Add Bell. Add Thomas. Where is all this added depth you keep talking about?

Jackson is back for 1 more year and Bell and Thomas. Barbosa will get better because he is young.

suns need nash to play 35 minutes a game and no more

spurs got him because tp made him work and after 4 games it started to show

About barbosa go here http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/index.php?sty=44174

As for Bell and Thomas :lol is all I can say.

Barbosa is a bust. No BBall IQ. Guy can't even get the Suns into their offense. Pray Nash doesn't go out for an extended period. When he was down Barbosa couldn't do jack. In the playoffs he was a total fold, worse than Beno against the Pistons. Suns can survive a few minutes with him in regular season games against lesser opponents but next year, his fourth in the league so whens he getting better since so far he's made insignificant progress, is when the Suns will give up on him. Thanks for the draft pick that helped get the Spurs Nazr though by the way.

Joe Johnson will have more time at PG now that Bell and Jackson can play the 2 and the 3. Here is the suns rotation.
C Thomas/Stoudemire
PF Stoudemire/Marion
SF Marion/J. Jackson
SG J. Johnson/R. Bell
PG S. Nash/J. Johnson/ L. Barbosa

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Originally Posted by Spursdaone

Joe Johnson will have more time at PG now that Bell and Jackson can play the 2 and the 3. Here is the suns rotation.
C Thomas/Stoudemire
PF Stoudemire/Marion
SF Marion/J. Jackson
SG J. Johnson/R. Bell
PG S. Nash/J. Johnson/ L. Barbosa

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You think that is a serious rotation? You have Stoudemire playing backup 5 and starting 4. Marion playing backup 4 and starting 3. They will be in 42 minutes+ with that rotation. That is not depth, that is desperation.

Awful thin and the 4 and 5. Undoubteedy sometime during the year Suns will have some injury to the Stoudamire/Matrix/Thomas combination and that's going to be a real strain on the system. Any timeout for Johnson/Nash is also putting a lot of pressure and minutes on the others. Again where's the depth? Compare that to how well the Spurs can absorb the inevitable bumps and bruises of a season without wearing out their players. And that's without even adding MLE and LLE players yet.

When Suns players have minor injuries they won't have the luxury of resting them as much which could well takes it's toll by years end.

Marion can play the 4 and Thomas can play the 5 if Stoudemire goes down and they will have Voskuyl as a backup. If Marion goes down Stoudemire will play mainly 4 while Thomas backs him up and Voshkuyl backs Thomas up. They should do fine but not great with an injury that could happen to any team.

Yeah they can for 48 minutes a game, back to backs. Good luck. Voskhul? He wouldn't even make the Spurs IR.

how many games did duncan and manu miss this year

Is that your argument? What if the suns get injured? That is pretty weak. What if Duncan goes down? There is no answer for any serious injury.

Duncan did go down, missed 16 games and yet suns only had 3 more wins than Spurs

Are you saying the suns won't make the playoffs if Amare went down 16 games? If Duncan went down in the playoffs it is over for the spurs. Regular season doesn't matter that much.

if amare goes down in postseaon suns are toast

Suns are a weak team, they went into a tail spin when nash went down for 5 or so games. If any team's superstar goes down in the playoffs it's over for them, what's your point?

Not what if. When. Went Duncan went down Spurs had five credible bigs to play. At one point Duncan and Rasho both went down and Spurs could still put Nazr and Horry on the floor. Manu went down and Spurs had Berry and Brown. When they were a little dinged they could be rested. You think Suns are going to go through a season without injuries? When they get those injuries they'll be force to play hurt, more hurt than Spurs will. When they can't play the others will have to play heavy, heavy minutes, lending to fatigue and injury. It all adds up. Having no depth is a bitch and Suns don't have quality depth.

8 Players is about the perfect amount in the playoffs. The suns prooved during the season that they could win without Amare or Marion. They struggled the most without Nash but Johnson could be the starting point guard now they have depth at the 2 and 3. I feel the suns might lose 30 instead of 23 if they get injured badly. There is very little difference and if San Antonio is injured in the playoffs they will lose also. It goes both ways.

Agreed.

In the last regular season game against the Suns, the Spurs held out Tim and Manu and still pushed Phoenix to the brink. They were lucky to escape with that game, against our so called 'scrubs'

If that's not some sort of indication of our depth, against what ended up being the team with the best regular season record for the year, I don't know what is.

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Originally Posted by Spursdaone

8 Players is about the perfect amount in the playoffs. The suns prooved during the season that they could win without Amare or Marion. They struggled the most without Nash but Johnson could be the starting point guard now they have depth at the 2 and 3. I feel the suns might lose 30 instead of 23 if they get injured badly. There is very little difference and if San Antonio is injured in the playoffs they will lose also. It goes both ways.

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Duncan and Manu both got injured in the playoffs, only difference is they played through it.

Also forgot Horry got injured when he dunked that ball, didn't stop him from hitting that 3.

So did Marion. Joe Johnson was badly hurt and it was dangerous for him to play. This is very small detail about injuries because teams will get hurt badly if they lose a star no matter how deep they are. The suns will have no trouble getting to the playoffs.

Suns have zero margin for error. If Spurs go into the playoffs without a TD, Manu, maybe Parker they're dead but they can be competitve and cover should any of the rest be out. Suns, with they're thin team, can't afford to lose any of the top five or six and be in the playoffs with any hope of advancing to the finals.