Re: where does ginobili rank
Kobe was banged up in the first championship run...especially in the finals. People say Kobe had his chance without Shaq and failed...good test year....injured, brand new system and team with a new coach...a recipe for greatness....whatever.
A great individual is only great if his team is great.
Re: where does ginobili rank
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ginobili_20_gold_medalist
This is without a doubt one of the dumbest things I've ever read...seriously.
So you think Ginobili can be replaced and Duncan would have 3 rings without him but you think Shaq wouldn't have rings without Kobe? :lol I give Phil more credit for Shaq's rings than Kobe. He got Shaq in a system that works. Did you actually see Kobe the first title year? He was VERY inconsistent. He was in foul trouble every other game against the Blazers in the Western Conference Finals and getting killed in the post by every Blazer guard/forward. They took turns abusing him. In the Finals he only averaged 15 freakin points shooting in the high 30's percentage-wise. You think Shaq in his prime (scoring 30+ points and snatching 15+ rebounds) couldn't have won a title with any other decent SG? Get out of here with that man lol. If you think Ginobili could be replaced after his performance in this years playoffs then Kobe DEFINITELY could have been replaced on that Laker title team.
And it's not hard to shoot the ball 20+ times and score 25+ while having your shooting percentage in the low 40's. Hell, even JERRY STACKHOUSE led this freakin league in scoring at one time lol. If you dominate the ball as much as Kobe, T-Mac and Iverson of course your stats are going to be inflated. Give Ginobili the greenlight to shoot the ball more than 12 times a game and watch his stats look similar but thank GOD he doesn't play that way or have the need to be "the man". That's what got T-Mac and Kobe in the situations they are now and I don't feel a bit sorry for them. GIve me a team player with skills anyday over someone with a "wannabe Jordan" complex.
Man I am a spurs fan... Im love my spurs but lets end this right now KOBE is better than MANU period. Another thing it is not dumb for me to assume that without Kobe shaq would not have 3 rings KOBE has was the 2nd or 3rd best palyer in the league for that stretch of laker chips... and at times it took a lil luck and very questionable calls for the lakers to win some of those series I dont think Kobe could have been raplaced by guard in the league at that time not even by t-mac... BTW shaq is waaaay overrated imo also he needed kobe just as much as kobe needed him
Re: where does ginobili rank
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICE3000
I respect your opinon but I strongly disagree... I dont think if put in the exact situation that KOBR BRYANT is in manu would do any better as a matter of fact he would do alot worse... kobe is a better passer/slasher/jump shooter/rebounder/defender/has more hops/is far mor clutch/and just plain better than manu... Ginobili would put up 30 shots if he played on a team that required him to do so... whatelse is he goin to do he aint exactly LBJ when it comes to dishin the rock... if it were up to ginobili to distribute the basketball on a ball club he would average twice as many TO's than assists... look at the dumb plays he makes for us
If he is so dumb then trade him... send him to the Lakers for Kobe... letīs see what happens..
Iīve never seen Kobe take less than 15 shots unless he was injured...
Manu
G 74
GS 74
MPG 29.6
FG% .471
3P% .376
FT% .803
OFF Reb 1.00
DEF Reb 3.40
RPG 4.40
APG 3.9
SPG 1.61
BPG .36
TO 2.32
PF 2.60
PPG 16.0
Kobe
G 66
GS 66
MPG 40.7
FG% .433
3P% .339
FT% .816
OFFR 1.40
DEFR 4.50
RPG 5.90
APG 6.0
SPG 1.30
BPG .80
TO 4.09
PF 2.60
PPG 27.6
Impressive numbers by Kobe but he plays 40 Mpg, Manu plays 29 MPG.
And Manu still needs less shots to score.
Kobe pick more rebounds (again remember the minutes) and has less steals
and 2 more TO per game!??
And you called Manu a dumb!?
I could compare playoffs numbers but Kobe hasnīt...
Re: where does ginobili rank
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICE3000
Man I am a spurs fan... Im love my spurs but lets end this right now KOBE is better than MANU period. Another thing it is not dumb for me to assume that without Kobe shaq would not have 3 rings KOBE has was the 2nd or 3rd best palyer in the league for that stretch of laker chips... and at times it took a lil luck and very questionable calls for the lakers to win some of those series I dont think Kobe could have been raplaced by guard in the league at that time not even by t-mac... BTW shaq is waaaay overrated imo also he needed kobe just as much as kobe needed him
If you're a real Spurs fan, then why don't you realize Without Manu we wouldn't have won this year???
TD needs Manu as much as Shaq neede Kobe back then. Face it.
Re: where does ginobili rank
Quote:
Originally Posted by FoxMulder
If he is so dumb then trade him... send him to the Lakers for Kobe... letīs see what happens..
Iīve never seen Kobe take less than 15 shots unless he was injured...
Manu
G 74
GS 74
MPG 29.6
FG% .471
3P% .376
FT% .803
OFF Reb 1.00
DEF Reb 3.40
RPG 4.40
APG 3.9
SPG 1.61
BPG .36
TO 2.32
PF 2.60
PPG 16.0
Kobe
G 66
GS 66
MPG 40.7
FG% .433
3P% .339
FT% .816
OFFR 1.40
DEFR 4.50
RPG 5.90
APG 6.0
SPG 1.30
BPG .80
TO 4.09
PF 2.60
PPG 27.6
Impressive numbers by Kobe but he plays 40 Mpg, Manu plays 29 MPG.
And Manu still needs less shots to score.
Kobe pick more rebounds (again remember the minutes) and has less steals
and 2 more TO per game!??
And you called Manu a dumb!?
I could compare playoffs numbers but Kobe hasnīt...
Im not suggesting trade manu Im simply just blown away that u think ginobili is even close to as good as kobe. And yes the spur would be a better team if we had kobe... all that stuff between him a shaq got blown outta proportion b/c they both have huge egos.. but if kobe played alonside someone like TD that would let him soak up the spotlight (the way manu does now) everthing would work out perfect. Tim would just play let kobe be the star and the spurs would win until 2010
Re: where does ginobili rank
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillsCarnage
Manu ranks as one of the greatest floppers of all time..
THE SUNS ARE FLOPPERS
SEEMS THAT THEY ARE THE BEST TEAM OF THE LEAGUE WHEN IN FACT THEY ARE NOT
Re: where does ginobili rank
don't forget salary cap man... and the lakers will want Manu, Bowen and Parker and half of the Spurs without any doubt...
Re: where does ginobili rank
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICE3000
Im not suggesting trade manu Im simply just blown away that u think ginobili is even close to as good as kobe. And yes the spur would be a better team if we had kobe... all that stuff between him a shaq got blown outta proportion b/c they both have huge egos.. but if kobe played alonside someone like TD that would let him soak up the spotlight (the way manu does now) everthing would work out perfect. Tim would just play let kobe be the star and the spurs would win until 2010
R u John from another forum???? U sure sound like him ... :rolleyes
Re: where does ginobili rank
Quote:
Originally Posted by ICE3000
Im not suggesting trade manu Im simply just blown away that u think ginobili is even close to as good as kobe. And yes the spur would be a better team if we had kobe... all that stuff between him a shaq got blown outta proportion b/c they both have huge egos.. but if kobe played alonside someone like TD that would let him soak up the spotlight (the way manu does now) everthing would work out perfect. Tim would just play let kobe be the star and the spurs would win until 2010
That's Kobe's problem. He WANTS to be the star. He plays for himself and cares nothing but for his own legacy. I'm "blown away" that anyone would want to trade for a SG that needs to shoot the ball 20+ times a game and disrupt team chemistry. I mean how much more spotlight would Duncan have to give up for Kobe? He was already taking the majority of the shots in LA and the Lakers suffered for it. Look at these Finals numbers from '04.
Game 1 -
Kobe 10-27 for 25 points, 4 rebs, 4 assists
Shaq 13-16 for 34 points, 11 rebs, 1 assist
Game 2 -
Kobe 14-27 for 33 points, 4 rebs, 7 assists
Shaq 10-20 for 29 points, 7 rebs, 3 assists
Game 3 -
Kobe 4-13 for 11 points, 3 rebs, 5 assists
Shaq 7-14 for 14 points, 8 rebs, 1 assist
Game 4 -
Kobe 8-25 for 20 points, 0 rebs, 2 assists
Shaq 16-21 for 36 points, 20 rebs, 2 assists
Game 5 -
Kobe 7-21 for 24 points, 3 rebs, 4 assists
Shaq 7-13 for 20 points, 8 rebs, 1 assist
Kobe had ONE good game and shot the ball significantly more than Shaq in every game but one. That's 113 shots (39% shooting) for Kobe...84 shots (63%) for Shaq. I would say Shaq gave up the spotlight. No way in hell would I trade for a guard that's too stupid to give the ball up to his big man shooting 63%.
