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Joe Johnson is not worth the max in any circumstance whatsoever. If he can get it he should take it and run. 6 years, $60 million is a bit much even, considering Manu's only pulling $53 million over the same length contract. He would be an idiot to turn that down. The Suns are in a lose-lose situation if he signs their offer sheet.
Aren't you glad we have the big 3 locked up long-term already?
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Originally Posted by baseline bum
Yes. Some continue to complain about Parker's deal. If he hit the open market this summer the Spurs might've found themselves having to give him a near-max to max deal.
Don't forget to throw Larry Hughes into this lineup.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark in Austin
But he is willing to stay in Phoenix and be Nash and Amare's sidekick. He isn't worth the max but I'm glad there is a team out there stupid enough to break the bank on him and take him away from Phoenix. Hopefully he'll sign the sheet and head for Hotlanta.Quote:
Originally Posted by xcoriate
This is good news. Hopefully Phoenix realizes their financial problems and lets him go.
I can't see how the Suns can afford to let him go. They'll have to bite the bullet and pay him no matter what it takes. Next year it's max for Amare and then, with Bell, six deep and vet minimums forever.
Johnson will be matched and if finances force their hand, the Suns will trade Marion, whom you all know wasn't even a factor vs. the Spurs.
Problem is that, given his contract, Marion has negative trade value. They could dump him for shorter, bad contract but the Suns will still be capped out.
...in addition, the Suns likely would have to take back the same amount of salary and wouldn't get an expiring contract in return.Quote:
Originally Posted by picnroll
The Suns are following a scary trail. Their team proved to be good but not championship caliber ... yet now they have to break the bank in keeping the team together.
That's a road many franchises in sports have ventured, with most of the time the team has to be blown up somewhere down the line because they don't have the room to try to get better.
They should threaten to match and then demand something back from the Hawks.
ie, New York Knicks, Toronto Raptors, Portland Trailblazers...Quote:
Originally Posted by timvp
Phoenix has youth going for them though. Those other 3 teams were pretty old, but Marion still has 5 or 6 good years left, Nash has probably 4 or 5, and Stoudemire and Johnson have their whole careers ahead of them.
That Portland team was old as dirt. The Knicks never had anyone close to Stoudemire coming up. Toronto's best player became a huge pussy after signing his new deal and his supporting cast was on its last legs.
Nash is a ticking time bomb. His body could break down any second. The Mavs didn't match the Suns' offer because they didn't think his body would hold up for much longer.
You guys are undervaluing Marion. Yes, he's got a big contract, but he's an All-Star who will put up 20-10 for just about any team. He might not have much valeu now, but with 2 years left (when the finances really get troubling around 65+) he could easily be moved to a team like New York for expiring contracts. New York will never have the CAP space to utilize expiring contracts, so the only value they hold is in trade. They traded expiring contracts for Marbury and Penny and for Jamal Crawford in recent years. Chances are great that Tim Thomas gets traded this year, same with Hardaway next year.
New York, Dallas, Portland... All big spenders who trade expiring contracts for talent, no matter the price.
Great, so you get back nothing for Marion and start to deplete the talent around an aging Nash.
Good luck.
Stoudemire looks like an MVP-caliber talent though. When you have a bigman like that you're always a title threat.
Nash still has 2 years left. This decision by Phoenix could determine if San Antonio repeats. The other big decision is if Miami gets SAR.
Marcus, you seem to like to spin the facts. The Suns essentually played the Spurs tough WITHOUT Marion or Richardson making any significant contributions.
With just Nash, Johnson (3 games) and Amare the Suns hung in with the Spurs until the final minutes of the fourth quarters.
I'm telling you that losing Marion isn't as big a loss as losing Johnson and that even if they get nothing in return for him, he did nothing vs. the Spurs anyway.
Do I want the Suns to get rid of him? No.
But his loss is hardly catostrophic as most of his points came in transition and off put-backs. No plays were run for him. He's great at what he does, but in my opinion, he is replaceable.
Suns still have all their picks for the future. They can keep adding young talent. They've been one of the best teams in drafting since the 1990's, so they'll get talent.
As Baseline said, Amare has that "All-time" potential and along with Johnson and Nash form the nucleas for the next several years. After that, who know, but so long as Amare and Johnson are there, they'll have the two stars to contend.
I'm more interested in whether Duncan gets a summers rest and comes back like the Duncan I watched last night from the 2001 all-star game than whether Johnson signs with Phoenix or SAR with Miami. That has a hell of a lot more to do with the Spurs repeating than your neurosing about other teams.
Spin what? Loss of talent for essentially nothing isn't a good deal. That team needs Nash more than anyone else. Stoudemire is a phenomenal talent but he's the type of big who can blow up and his team will struggle to make the playoffs without someone else of the caliber of Nash running the show.
Losing Marion for nothing would be a huge step back.
Indeed. The best NBA move of the offseason might be the Spurs trading a Duncan at 70% for one at 100%.Quote:
Originally Posted by picnroll
Just like 2004 when the Lakers picked up Malone and Payton. The same could be said about Phoenix and Miami.Quote:
Originally Posted by picnroll
Why do you think they didn't contribute? It wasn't an accident. Our defense shut them down. Did you realize that your team never made more threes than us in those 5 games?Quote:
Originally Posted by JMarkJohns
I understand, but why were they shut down? Because neither could create their own shot. Neither is that great an open shooter that they can consistantly make shots with hands in their face. Neither was able to crash the boards on offense to get put-backs. and because of the Suns defensive rebounding woes, neither could get great looks in transition.
Besides, I never said the Suns would be trading Marion for nothing. New York have the Suns two 1st-rounders along with the expiring contracts for Marbury.
Marion is well worth an expiring contract and a pick to a team like Dallas or New York.
I love the Hawks!
If it's true that they're considering offering Johnson the max, then the Suns are screwed with whatever decision they make.
My guess is that they'd match the offer, which as others have stated, will put a serious dent in their ability to sign players in the future.
Anyone who thinks losing the Matrix wouldn't hurt the Suns is smoking crack. Thankfully we had Bowen on him, and D'Antoni wasn't smart enough to figure out how to free him up.
Any team would love to have a guy like Shawn Marion on their team. If the Suns can't hold onto him because of salary issues their team is going to feel it, big time.