Atlanta offering Joe Johnson a max deal?

Marion is a ghost come playoff time. Especially vs. the Spurs. The stats will bear this out.

If you can't create your own shot and aren't a great shooter, then you'll struggle to score.

If you rely entirely on athleticism for defense and rebounding rather than position and give up several inches and dozens of pounds to you inside opposition, then you'll struggle to make an impact.

Either way... Marion is routinely shut down and overmatched when it counts.

So, picnroll says that Marion has negative trade value and Mr. Jones says any team would love to have him.

Well, at least we know where Marion's value stands.

Phoenix can't win a championship without Marion. That is a fact.

Now, JMarkJohns, I think any team would be glad to have him, but at the right price. So technically I'm not disagreeing with MB.

I just think the Suns will regret it if they lose him. Bruce Bowen makes a lot of great players look ordinary.

Bruce Bowen would full time be guarding Joe Johnson instead of Marion partially. Bad idea.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by JMarkJohns

Marion is a ghost come playoff time. Especially vs. the Spurs. The stats will bear this out.

If you can't create your own shot and aren't a great shooter, then you'll struggle to score.

---

Marion did fine against the offensive teams. He had pretty good numbers against Dallas. Bowen did a good job on him, and whoever guarded Richardson did good on him. But you are right, neither can create their own shot. Both are mainly jumpshooters who get their shots from Nash.

I really hope the Hawks get JJ, even if he is overpriced. Makes Amare less intimidating when there's only Nash to feed him the ball, and now I have an interest in going to a Hawks game. I think the Hawks can be a Suns-lite team, doesn't take a genius to pass the ball to guys like Marvin, the Joshes, and Al (though I wish Al would get traded for a big)

Right now I'm skeptical if Stoudemire is the type of big who can carry a team all by himself (ala Duncan, DRob, Hakeem, Shaq, etc...)

Amare is bad ass.

My take is this.............

The NBA is fucked up. There are a few great players, a bunch of mediocres, to many teams, to many foreigners and to much cash.

Again... the NBA has damn near overpriced me out of the game.

I spent $2000 on Zarzamora and Southcross tickets in Club Hispanic during the damn playoffs.

Infuckingsane.

$65 dollar face value, 2 rows from the spotlights. I may have to turn to TV now.

Sorry for this dumb question but couldn't he sign with phx for less money if he wants to? If he WOULD be satisfied with the deal he could turn atlanta down, couldn't he?

Thanks...

I have mixed feelings about Marion.

He'll always have value because he does so much. Especially during the regular season.

But I've seen him fade more than once. I think because he does so much without having anything run for him or without him because the focal point of anything is both why he's so valuable and why he's replaceable.

He's not a deliberate player. He's nice to have, but a few less expensive players like Jackson and Bell can easily duplicate his offense and spacing while pulling down around 7/8 rebounds and equal, if not better defense.

I think Marion will always have a market, especially when the seller isn't asking for anything but expiring contracts and picks.

Quote:

---

The exact contract could be worth between $68 million and $72 million for a five-year deal, which is what all other teams can offer Johnson.

The Suns could offer around $90 million for six seasons, but we hear the offer they have made is for six years and about $60 million.

That ultimately doesn't matter if the Suns are serious about matching all offers, which they would have seven days to do.

---

it was reported that the original plan was they want for Johnson to go out and listen to other teams' offers then, then match it.

THEY HAVE TO LOOK AHEAD, and that's RE-SIGNING AMARE.

I hope Phoenix lets him go. It could be Dallas and San Antonio next year if that is the case.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by 101A

Points break down all of a sudden, not over a period of time. Nash will be one of the best, then, real quick, he won't be. That could happen anytime in the next 3 seasons (sooner rather than later IMO because of his style and speed). Ultimately that's what Cuban was predicting when he let him get away.

---

I agree. I think we're lookin at about two more years where's he's able to make Phoenix almost a contender. When Nash was resting (very rare) Dantoni didn't have much confidence in anybody but Joe Johnson running the point (although Jim Jackson did it well that one night). Where does that leave Barbosa in Dantoni's mind?

True, Cuban did see age as a factor with Nash, but you know he was thinking of Jason Terry, ... Josh Howard, younger, less expensive...

Bad teams find ways of losing and that is what Atlanta is doing. Making sure they don't have success in the future.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2104688

Will Suns have enough to resign Amare?

3 max contracts in Joe Johnson, Steve Nash and Shawn Marion

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tophy7

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2104688

Will Suns have enough to resign Amare?

3 max contracts in Joe Johnson, Steve Nash and Shawn Marion

---

I think they will have to choose between JJ and Amare. If they are smart they will choose Amare. IMO JJ is going to be a Hawk.

From that article I posted

"Various league executives have privately questioned whether the Suns would indeed match a max offer sheet to Johnson, given owner Robert Sarver's stated aversion to letting his annual payroll stray far beyond $50 million. With Johnson earning an average annual wage of $12 million and Stoudemire soon to receive a maximum contract extension that would kick in starting with the 2006-07 season, Phoenix would be in the rare position of carrying four players who earn roughly $50 million by themselves."

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by midgetonadonkey

I think they will have to choose between JJ and Amare. If they are smart they will choose Amare. IMO JJ is going to be a Hawk.

---

Suns will not part with Amare, and after see how he played in the WCFs, I can't really say that I blame them.

Time for some SAT practice everybody.

Amare : Suns :: Tim : Spurs

Simple as that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tophy7

From that article I posted

"Various league executives have privately questioned whether the Suns would indeed match a max offer sheet to Johnson, given owner Robert Sarver's stated aversion to letting his annual payroll stray far beyond $50 million. With Johnson earning an average annual wage of $12 million and Stoudemire soon to receive a maximum contract extension that would kick in starting with the 2006-07 season, Phoenix would be in the rare position of carrying four players who earn roughly $50 million by themselves."

---

I've been saying this on one of the other Suns' board. The last year of KT's contract (07/08?) the starters will be making $55-$60mil. THE STARTERS. Can't wait to see what Sarver does then. :drunk

For those of you hoping JoJo will go anywhere, keep dreaming. He's not going anywhere. Yeah it'll cost the Suns, but he's staying.

JMark, Marion isn't going anywhere this year either. With everyone moving back to their "natural" position the Suns will give him another year to see how he performs in ther playoffs. If he's a no show, then he'll get Q'd.

"The Hawks' offer, sources said, is likely to be front-loaded with a payment as high as $20 million in the first year of the deal. Rules on such payments and other specifics of the deal are also on hold until July 22, when the league announces the salary-cap number for next season."

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2104688

That is absolutely insane. Joe Johnson is a very good player and I'm sure Phoenix will keep him but that first year salary is crazy.

Suns are going to match the offer.

By Marc Stein
ESPN.com


LAS VEGAS -- Joe Johnson's camp was informed Saturday that the Phoenix Suns intend to match Atlanta's expected five-year, $70 million offer to the restricted free agent, according to NBA front-office sources.

Word began spreading Friday at the Vegas Summer League that the Hawks have given Johnson a firm commitment that they'll sign him to a maximum offer sheet on July 22, which the league office has scheduled to be the first day free agents can sign contracts.

The Hawks' offer, sources said, is likely to be front-loaded with a payment as high as $20 million in the first year of the deal. Rules on such payments and other specifics of the deal are also on hold until July 22, when the league announces the salary-cap number for next season.

The rules on contract lengths, however, have already been finalized, and the Hawks are prevented from signing Johnson to a contract longer than five years. A maximum offer from the Suns would span six years at an estimated $90 million, matching the terms Michael Redd received from Milwaukee earlier this week, but sources say Phoenix has offered Johnson closer to $60 million over six seasons.

The Suns have maintained all season that they will match any offer Johnson gets, rating the versatile swingman as no less critical to the team's success than its three All-Stars: Amare Stoudemire, Steve Nash and Shawn Marion. Matching a five-year offer, though, is undoubtedly more palatable than paying Johnson in the Redd range for six.

Various league executives have privately questioned whether the Suns would indeed match a max offer sheet to Johnson, given owner Robert Sarver's stated aversion to letting his annual payroll stray far beyond $50 million. With Johnson earning an average annual wage of $12 million and Stoudemire soon to receive a maximum contract extension that would kick in starting with the 2006-07 season, Phoenix would be in the rare position of carrying four players who earn roughly $50 million by themselves.

Arn Tellem, Johnson's agent, met with Phoenix president Bryan Colangelo and team chairman Jerry Colangelo during the Suns' summer-league game here Saturday against the Los Angeles Clippers. All parties declined to comment.

The Hawks, sources said, are still expected to go ahead with signing Johnson to an offer sheet, hoping that the value of the contract, potential incentive clauses and the up-front payment will prompt Phoenix to change its mind.

The Hawks will also take encouragement from the new collective bargaining agreement, which lessens the risk of signing restricted free agents. Starting this offseason, teams will be given only seven days to match an offer to a restricted free agent, compared to the previous window of 15 days. Teams have been hesitant in the past to sign restricted free agents to offer sheets and then have their free-agent funds potentially tied up for 15 days.

After a breakthrough 62-win season, followed by a trip to the Western Conference finals, Phoenix went into the offseason hoping to re-sign Johnson, sign Stoudemire to the extension and add toughness. The Suns addressed the latter aim by trading swingman Quentin Richardson to the New York Knicks for power forward Kurt Thomas and then reaching a verbal agreement on the first day of the free-agent season with Utah Jazz guard Raja Bell.

The Suns are forbidden from publicly discussing the Bell deal until he officially signs July 22, but team sources have said repeatedly that Bell was targeted to back up Johnson -- not as an insurance policy in case Johnson is let go.

Joe Johnson is probably the best all around player on Phoenix when you factor in size, age, quickness, handles, shooting, passing and court vision. They're in love with Amare because there's always a premium placed on bigs, but he's not near the complete player that Johnson is. They were smart to get rid of Q, but it's a shame they couldn't work something out with Cleveland so that they wouldn't have to take back salary, especially with a PF who will be overmatched in the West. I just wonder how effective Amare will be if two of his perimeter bombers are gone. Can you say collapsing zones?

Quote:

---

Arn Tellem, Johnson's agent, met with Phoenix president Bryan Colangelo and team chairman Jerry Colangelo during the Suns' summer-league game here Saturday against the Los Angeles Clippers. All parties declined to comment.

---

Oh, shit. I missed this one the first time around. If Tellem is his agent, he will get the highest offer possible, and will lie, cheat and steal to do so. Even if you read that Phoenix has reached aqgreement with him, don't believe a word until the ink is dry on the contract. He fucked SA in '99 on the Lamond Murray deal, renegging on a verbal deal during the negotiating period. Phoenix is in a bad spot.