Two major defensive issues, how to fix them?..

The defense had many holes in it tonight, but there were 2 issues that stood out to me:

- Duncan in the pick&roll..this was one of the worst defensive games I've ever seen him play..simple screens that he couldn't get out to defend, allowing Curry to make open 3s..when Tim did close out hard, Curry got layups and created easy shots in the lane..

- Parker wasn't able to hide against anybody..his defense was good against Jarrett Jack down the stretch, but they made it a mission to run offense through Parker's assigned man throughout the game..the Spurs had trouble defending the Warriors wings with Parker..

How do you fix these 2 issues?..

Duncan was affected by his stomach bug IMO fwiwtbh.
Kawhi on curry, Parker on klay >> vice versa

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Originally Posted by HarlemHeat37

The defense had many holes in it tonight, but there were 2 issues that stood out to me:

- Duncan in the pick&roll..this was one of the worst defensive games I've ever seen him play..simple screens that he couldn't get out to defend, allowing Curry to make open 3s..when Tim did close out hard, Curry got layups and created easy shots in the lane..

- Parker wasn't able to hide against anybody..his defense was good against Jarrett Jack down the stretch, but they made it a mission to run offense through Parker's assigned man throughout the game..the Spurs had trouble defending the Warriors wings with Parker..

How do you fix these 2 issues?..

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It seemed like anybody Parker was guarding was posting up against him, but it was mainly Thompson. Maybe putting him on Jack is the only option, leaving Kawhi on Curry and Green on Thompson...

With Splitter out, Diaw is our only above average PnR defender, so more playing time for Diaw should help.

Whoever is defending Curry is gonna have to get over that screen quickly no matter what.

If the spurs are going to take parker off curry for more than half the game, which appears to be the game plan, GS is going to continue to thrive by running 2 or 3 sf out there and forcing parker to guard a much taller guy. That guy is going to get super-clean mid range looks, because parker is going to have his hand up near their chins... Parker can't guard Thompson, but Thompson can slow parker, so that is a tough matchup. Fouling Thompson out was great for us, because Thompson was the 2nd leading scorer for GS, and once Curry got tired, they had to scramble to score.

I think the spurs gameplan to guard curry is just fine. the adjustment that gs has to make is to rest curry a bit earlier in the game, to save him for the 4th. Once splitter is back, he will make a huge difference, because he is mobile, can guard the pnr way better than duncan, and can score on the move. Splitter will make this series a lot easier. i hope he is back next game, but he is essential for us to win one in GS.

Hope Tim feels better for Wed

And Kawhi needs to check Curry 75% of the time..

Duncan was hampered big time by that stomach bug, hopefully he's feeling better by Wednesday night. Splitter needs to man the fuck up and play; with him starting the Spurs' defense improves immensely.

Tony is going to have to produce on the offensive end to offset what he gives up on D, but tbh he improved as the game went on so I'm not all that worried.

1. Hopefully, this is mostly attributable to his stomach flu. Either way, I know it's not how they typically have him defend them, but he he has to step up on the high pick and roll (not hard show or hedge, just come up a step, so as to give Parker enough time to recover and not get close enough that Curry can blow past). Curry is too insane a shooter to cede even a split second of daylight to and that daylight is going to be there, even with Parker attempting to fight up over the top (which he has to do a better job of).

Doing this will leave Bogut on the roll, but the rotations can be predicated on their surrounding personnel. If they foolishly start Ezeli again, obviously help off of him. If Green is out there, despite his recent shooting, help off him. Even Landry from mid range or Barnes from three, they have to live with that.

2. Don't overreact to the post up. One time, Barnes had him posted a foot inside the three-point line and Bonner overreacts and comes to double. Make Thompson, Barnes, Green, whoever, prove they can post him for profit first.

Spurs terrible bend over and give mid range shot pick and roll defense is being exposed this series
but the problem is with Curry is that if you go under the screen he hits a 3
over the screen he gets a layup
if you double/trap he finds layups

Spurs perimeter defenders are all horrible at going around screens but they are suprisingly good isolation defenders
the best solution imo is to have Leonard guard the other teams 4 who sets the pick and Green on Curry
then when the screen comes you can switch everything and force him to beat you in isolation
i can live with a Draymond Green/Barnes at the 4 posting up and killing Green over Curry drilling open jumpshots

with Bogut setting the screen and Duncan defending i have no idea what they can do
but the rotations have to be tight and Bonner/Blair can never be in the game at the same time
Spurs have to decide whether they give up a 3 or shut down the paint
not do both half assed that happens with that horrible pairing

Ya, you have to figure that Barnes and Green are going to regress at some point..Barnes was an average player all year, and Green was a horrible offensive player during the regular season..

I agree with TD21 about the over reactions..they need to let Curry's supporting cast beat them in isolation or post up situations, you can live with it..

Bonner should never be on the floor when the Spurs are planning on trapping, btw..his traps are horrible..

You forgot having Neal guard Jack, and giving minutes to Blair... Tony on Jack works, IMO... also Curry looked a bit bothered when Diaw was on him... mobile big on a switch might be the answer

1. Have Duncan not be sick.

2. Have Parker not take 8 days off between game 1 and game 2.

Tiago Splitter goes a long way towards fixing that. He does a lot better job protecting the rim and defending the pick and roll.

Duncan was sluggish too. More fluids and a day of rest could go a long way.

Parker just got beat up. That's how Thompson ended up on the pine. Spurs made adjustments to neutralize Bogut's presence much like they did to Duncan. Voila, Parker starts getting his game going.

When the Spurs went on that run to begin the 2nd half and Jackson called a timeout, the Warriors and Curry started fucking us up. I figured the impossible happened. Mark Jackson outcoached Greg Popovich. Popovich then started taking away Curry's angles off pnr and shut off spots in the lane where he had been raping us. Gary Neal's draws a charge. Curry is forced to dribble back out or give up the ball. The weakside rotations finally started getting to that second pass.

The Spurs brain trust came right back. Awesome performance.

Having Bonner in the game to start the second half was a complete disaster. The Spurs scored pretty well and found themselves down further than when they started. At one point the Warriors scored four or five straight baskets because Matty couldn't stay in position, rotate, block anyone out, put his hands up or see where the ball was at any point.

Duncan was clearly still weak from the stomach flu. He actually put up decent numbers, but his defense was not up to his usual standards. Even at his best he is likely to have problems in pick and rolls involving Curry, because that kid is just flat out good. What hurt more was that Duncan wasn't able to protect the rim. Kawhi funneled Curry into the paint twice late in the game and he got easy floaters as Duncan couldn't react quickly enough, despite having good position. Duncan will be back to form by Wednesday, and the paint will close down at least somewhat for the Warriors.

As for Parker, I think the Spurs will have to settle for him being at a disadvantage against guys like Thompson and Barnes. You don't want to run him all night against Curry. Its not that Parker can't guard him (I think he was a bit rusty tonight), you just don't want to tire him out like that through the series. I thought Pop did a great job throwing different looks at him. After game 1, it is clear that Kawhi did the best job on him. When Curry begins to heat up in future games, Pop needs to immediately put Kawhi on him. I think Parker will play better defense going forward though.

The way I see it, we took Golden State's best shot tonight. They played an amazing game for three quarters, probably their best of the year. They played good defense, made the right passes, and then Curry topped it off by exploding in the third. Despite all that, and the fact that the Spurs played well below their potential through three quarters, they couldn't get the win. Next game, I expect the Spurs to play much better, and for Golden State to come down a peg or two.

I'd rather have Klay taking tough midrange shots against Parker a whole lot of possessions than Curry getting whatever he wants. He made a couple of them in this game but those ones he hit on Parker are too tough to make a huge percentage with a lot of shots. I'd give up that before letting Curry get open looks

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Originally Posted by Obstructed_View

Having Bonner in the game to start the second half was a complete disaster. The Spurs scored pretty well and found themselves down further than when they started. At one point the Warriors scored four or five straight baskets because Matty couldn't stay in position, rotate, block anyone out, put his hands up or see where the ball was at any point.

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Hopefully getting Splitter back means no Blair at all and less Bonner....

Don't overreact to the post up on Parker. Pop sent the double immediately which is a mistake IMO. TP can hold his own and I can live with a Thompson/Barners fadeaway.

Kawhi is going to have be on Curry the majority of the game. He can recover faster from the screen and his length bothers him.

I can live with Draymond Green/Barnes shooting those 3s and Curry hitting tough floaters tbh.

Btw, these obviously weren't the only defensive problems, but the rest can't be fixed..

Bonner, Neal, Blair and Ginobili were all atrocious on D..other than maybe Manu, there isn't much hope for the others, tbh..

Throughout the season I've noticed that Klay Thompson always seems to be in foul trouble. Whoever he is guarding needs to attack him and draw fouls on him to get him out of the game more...

Does anybody else think it's absolutely nuts that Jackson played Curry the entire game? I don't care how young you are, you're gonna get tired. Even a 5 minute rest helps...

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Originally Posted by Whisky Dog

I'd rather have Klay taking tough midrange shots against Parker a whole lot of possessions than Curry getting whatever he wants. He made a couple of them in this game but those ones he hit on Parker are too tough to make a huge percentage with a lot of shots. I'd give up that before letting Curry get open looks

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I agree..

Curry is the only consistent player on the Warriors roster, tbh..

I can live with anybody else winning the game, including Thompson..

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Originally Posted by Whisky Dog

I'd rather have Klay taking tough midrange shots against Parker a whole lot of possessions than Curry getting whatever he wants. He made a couple of them in this game but those ones he hit on Parker are too tough to make a huge percentage with a lot of shots. I'd give up that before letting Curry get open looks

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I don't think they should be giving anyone open looks. I've seen pro basketball teams shoot well enough to win four out of six when you leave them wide open. I've never seen a pro basketball player do it when you give him 40 contested shots and don't give him any place to pass.

When Jack is in the game, the matchups become somewhat easier because we can put TP on him. The problem is that at the start of the game and at the start of the 3rd quarter, the Warriors go with Curry/Klay/Barnes vs TP/Green/Kawhi. If you don't put TP on Curry, the other 2 are bigger than him and can post him up. Too bad Danny Green can't post up Steph Curry.

Hope Splitter plays game 2. I would attack the paint with Duncan or Splitter post-ups (based on whoever is not guarded by Bogut).

When Thompson and Curry are both in the game it's always going to be tough. If they're both hitting, there's not a lot you can really do about that.

But it will help if Harrison Barnes and freaking Draymond Green don't have the games of their lives. I'm wondering if Pop going to want to let those two shoot threes.

Expect A LOT of small ball and screen switching.

the most worrying thing to me is that Parker always gets shut down by length
Thompson defended him really well
the one thing i noticed though is that he took Thompson off Parker whenever Ginobili was in
so Ginobili will need to play bigger minutes in this series

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Originally Posted by Obstructed_View

I don't think they should be giving anyone open looks. I've seen pro basketball teams shoot well enough to win four out of six when you leave them wide open. I've never seen a pro basketball player do it when you give him 40 contested shots and don't give him any place to pass.

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When Green or Joseph/Parker were on Curry he either got open looks for himself or easy ones in the paint for teammates which we can't give up. I'd much rather have Parker on Klay and let Klay post him or take the tough mid range shots he did against him than let Curry create open looks against Green/Parker. That's what I meant.

If Jackson doesn't learn his lesson and plays Curry 48 again next game I try to run him through picks defensively as well as running Klay through a lot of traffic and going at him inside. He likes to foul it seems and the refs don't respect him enough to give him treatment

Watching the game back, the Spurs really need Baynes to play. Splitter being out is absolutely killing them. They haven't been able to force the Warriors baseline at all this first half. Every Warrior attack is middle, middle, middle. You have Tim in an island down low. He's helping but he can't help hard as there's no shotblocker behind to help him. We haven't been playing the defense that got us here because of that lack of a 2nd interior presence. Looks a lot like 2010 Spurs without Tiago.


IIRC we forced the Warriors into tougher shots with Kawhi on Curry, but we'll see if that's sustainable.

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Originally Posted by Whisky Dog

When Green or Joseph/Parker were on Curry he either got open looks for himself

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I take issue that a three from 30 feet away is an open look under most any circumstance, and I'll let him take those all fucking night, because he won't hit enough of them to beat me. The twos he got for himself were really terrible defense by the Spurs, and they need to do something about that, but those guys followed ancient Spurs defense rules and funneled him into vapor because there were no shot blockers, and sometimes wasn't even any help. It's kind of hard to blame those guys. The biggest problem with the matchup for the Spurs is Danny Green, because Curry can rest on defense while he checks Danny.

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Originally Posted by Whisky Dog

or easy ones in the paint for teammates which we can't give up. I'd much rather have Parker on Klay and let Klay post him or take the tough mid range shots he did against him than let Curry create open looks against Green/Parker. That's what I meant.

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You could be right, but I think I'd prefer Curry having to try to get his own shot inside, because that tires him out. Passing to a teammate is another chance to rest. Thompson is also a matchup problem and a rather good shooter. It's bad enough the Spurs gave up 20 to Harrison Barnes. You don't want multiple dangerous three point shooters hot, and you also don't want your star point guard getting beat on.

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Originally Posted by Whisky Dog

If Jackson doesn't learn his lesson and plays Curry 48 again next game I try to run him through picks defensively as well as running Klay through a lot of traffic and going at him inside. He likes to foul it seems and the refs don't respect him enough to give him treatment

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Those are all good strategies. I'm for wearing them all down. It's normally insane to have so many people in your rotation, but when you're playing younger, jump-shooting legs who are playing heavy minutes, just throwing bodies at them is a good strategy. Gotta be careful not to put crappy defenders in who allow guys to get hot. I wouldn't be against giving Neal some of Danny's minutes just to give Curry an assignment that he has to chase around.

Per ESPN's reckoning, Green actually did a good job on Curry:

vs. TP 7-12, 17 pts
vs. CJ 6-7, 15 pts
vs. Green 1-5 2 pts
vs. Leonard 2-6 6 pts

Of course, all this is confounded by the fact that Curry was clearly pooped in the fourth quarter, so whoever was guarding him then was going to have an advantage.

Not playing for a week and being rusty was the biggest hole on defense last night. Notice how the Spurs locked in after the first 40 minutes or so. They completely shut the Warriors down when it mattered most, and held them to a respectably low points total in OT. So basically the finals 15-18 minutes of the game was solid D (at times great D), but the first 40 minutes or so was shit D.

Not having Splitter hurts too. . . not to mention Duncan was sick. Curry may have dropped 40, but he was hitting 30 foot threes and shit. . .it isn't like there's a logical defense for circus shots. He was shooting like 80% on 30 foot threes. Ain't gonna happen again.

Our D is probably fine. What bothers me more is that we wasted the Warirors' expected choke game in game 1 already, then gave them a bunch of experience in OT where they nearly won. Sadly, they likely won't choke nearly as hard a second time.

I say give Timmy a break because of the flu. And as for TP maybe just a bad night in the defensive end.

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Originally Posted by Obstructed_View

The biggest problem with the matchup for the Spurs is Danny Green, because Curry can rest on defense while he checks Danny.

You could be right, but I think I'd prefer Curry having to try to get his own shot inside, because that tires him out. Passing to a teammate is another chance to rest. Thompson is also a matchup problem and a rather good shooter. It's bad enough the Spurs gave up 20 to Harrison Barnes. You don't want multiple dangerous three point shooters hot, and you also don't want your star point guard getting beat on.

I wouldn't be against giving Neal some of Danny's minutes just to give Curry an assignment that he has to chase around.

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At the beginning of the game, Green was running Curry ragged off screens. Even though Danny didn't shoot a lot, he was constantly screening him or forcing him to run through screens. I think that was a big factor in tiring Curry out.

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Originally Posted by ShoogarBear

Per ESPN's reckoning, Green actually did a good job on Curry:

vs. TP 7-12, 17 pts
vs. CJ 6-7, 15 pts
vs. Green 1-5 2 pts
vs. Leonard 2-6 6 pts

Of course, all this is confounded by the fact that Curry was clearly pooped in the fourth quarter, so whoever was guarding him then was going to have an advantage.

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Green pretty much took Curry's cookie in the first quarter, especially when Thompson left with foul trouble. As far as I recall, the only shot Curry hit on Green was a step-back corner three. For as much credit as Leonard is getting for his fourth-quarter defense, Green deserves a lot of credit for holding Curry down in the first half.

Parker didn't do a good job defensively on anybody, and Joseph just seemed to catch Curry once he already got going.

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Originally Posted by ShoogarBear

Per ESPN's reckoning, Green actually did a good job on Curry:

vs. TP 7-12, 17 pts
vs. CJ 6-7, 15 pts
vs. Green 1-5 2 pts
vs. Leonard 2-6 6 pts

Of course, all this is confounded by the fact that Curry was clearly pooped in the fourth quarter, so whoever was guarding him then was going to have an advantage.

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Prop for the stats. Goddamn...32 pts on TP/CJ. Seems like he was bothered by Green and Leonard's length though.

First of all, Tim was sick and it globally killed the D game plan.
Second ST usually underestimate Tiago's impact on D, he is key to keep afloat Spurs D especially with his capacity to chase around out of the perimeter.
TP struggled on the D end but as already mentioned he played much better in the fourth and the 2 OTs, that's encouraging.

BTW we should thank everyday the lord that the Spurs have a clever coach that doesn't run into the ground his players the whole game. Sometimes it drives us nuts but no matter what he will give his players the proper rest. Except for a game 7, that's the correct choice, this is why a veteran team like the Spurs were able to keep up with young gunners like GS during 2 OTs

Timmy doesn't eat something bad Game 1 isn't a thriller, tbh.

Healthy TD + Tiago's return = better D.

Bogut was sure doing alot of moving screens...tHAT PIECE OF SHIT...he should have fouled out!!!!!

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Originally Posted by ElNono

You forgot having Neal guard Jack, and giving minutes to Blair... Tony on Jack works, IMO... also Curry looked a bit bothered when Diaw was on him... mobile big on a switch might be the answer

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Tony on Jack is a good option; Tony on Thompson fouled Thompson out. Thompson is too long for Parker to shoot over him, and last night Parker had no cover going into the paint.

Our guys will shoot much better in the next game, and that will put pressure on them guarding. They do not guard easily. They foul a lot when trying to guard close.

Diaw was the mvp of the game. Hope his back is alright for tomorrow, and hope Splitter comes back.

Agree with those who said we defend everybody else and let Curry get his.

I believe that we will win this series in 6.

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Originally Posted by Gervin44Silas13

Bogut was sure doing alot of moving screens...tHAT PIECE OF SHIT...he should have fouled out!!!!!

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agreed.

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Originally Posted by Chinook

At the beginning of the game, Green was running Curry ragged off screens. Even though Danny didn't shoot a lot, he was constantly screening him or forcing him to run through screens. I think that was a big factor in tiring Curry out.

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Actually, yes it is. I didn't notice, but I'll go back and watch again just to appreciate it. In the second half I saw Danny standing around with Curry checking him quite a bit, and didn't think it was a good idea.

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Originally Posted by Obstructed_View

Actually, yes it is. I didn't notice, but I'll go back and watch again just to appreciate it. In the second half I saw Danny standing around with Curry checking him quite a bit, and didn't think it was a good idea.

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Yeah, Green did really well on Curry in his first stint, forcing two turnovers and making Curry wok on D. In fact, if you want a good example of it, just go to the Spurs' first score. Green pretty much was playing peek-a-boo with Curry, and Danny ended up wide open in the corner when Curry got lost. Then Green missed a couple of shots, and I guess Curry stopped trying to guard him as hard, which led to Green not really moving much. (If Curry isn't going to chase him aggressively, then Green's movement doesn't really help the Spurs.)

I was glad to see Green show some diversity on offense in this game. Curry letting him score 22 points off 18 possessions is nothing to sneeze at. If the Warriors let Green have that type of success in every game, the Spurs will sweep them.

You must be local. I had to watch the end of Bulls Heat and missed the beginning.

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Originally Posted by Obstructed_View

You must be local. I had to watch the end of Bulls Heat and missed the beginning.

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I'm in Philadelphia. They showed the beginning of the game on TBS. Also, I "came across" a copy of the game and just confirmed.

As for issue #1, I believe Splitter will help improve that, along with continuing P&R contributions from Diaw. I would also concur with those who have suggested that Pop add a touch of Aron Baynes for some spot duty there as well. He appears to be competent in this area.

As for issue #2, that's a tougher one. I would hope that Parker can get it together defensively and summon the necessary energy to move his feet quicker. I would also advocate using Joseph and Parker together in some stretche, where the Warriors are going really small. I'd like to see how Joseph does on some of those quicker Warrior perimeter players.

A cool thing to note about Green at the beginning of the game is that he actually played well enough to prevent the cross match-up with Thompson on Parker for a time. In addition to running Curry through screens, Green also used his size on him in the paint.

I think that second part is critical to Green's development. He's going to be guarded by smaller players for as long as Parker is next to him. If he can develop a good post game, he'll prevent teams from putting a two on Parker.

I have one potential solution. Splitter was out, Duncan was sick, and CLEARLY hindered on D. BAYNES was rotting away on the bench. Pop I'm looking at you. Baynes could have been inserted onto the court for 5 minutes. We were getting rocked. If he played awful, yank him out. If he was successful, give him more minutes. Sometimes Pop is too stubborn. We needed a big in the paint to play D and rebound. We could do either for most of the game.

Pretty much anyone other than Bonner would be great. I just watched the first half again, and his defense was beyond awful. Blair has been killed on this board for his defense while he was on, but he caused three Warriors turnovers in his stint, and every single basket he gave up was a layup with Bonner failing to rotate or watching.