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your're assuming Leonard would do worse on rebounding on his natural position. He's still playing 3 most of the time, and his boards are largely hustle boards.Quote:
Originally Posted by Obstructed_View
Leonard has absolutely no control on what his role is on the team.
Again do I need to remind you guys he's averaging 14-10.
your're assuming Leonard would do worse on rebounding on his natural position. He's still playing 3 most of the time, and his boards are largely hustle boards.Quote:
Originally Posted by Obstructed_View
Leonard has absolutely no control on what his role is on the team.
Again do I need to remind you guys he's averaging 14-10.
lmao wtf are people talking about??
he's missing jump shots and free throws which is indicative of a shooting slump/fatigue or a combo, but besides that he's playing great. He's our leading rebounder and is averaging a double double for the series as a SF. Are people really expecting this guy to be a superstar by his 2nd season? If his shots were falling no one would say anything about his aggresiveness or anything like that
Agree.Quote:
Originally Posted by DarrinS
For the most part, He's just taking out of rhythm shots. I think he's confidence is low at this point.I think POP made a mistake for allowing to start taking 15-18 shots a game on stretches without parker and Manu, then reducing him to spot up and cutter. I know if i were a player, I'd lose a lot of confidence if that happens.
Agree.Quote:
Originally Posted by DarrinS
For the most part, He's just taking out of rhythm shots. I think he's confidence is low at this point.I think POP made a mistake for allowing to start taking 15-18 shots a game on stretches without parker and Manu, then reducing him to spot up and cutter. I know if i were a player, I'd lose a lot of confidence if that happens.
Not at all. He's still an elite rebounder. Imagine if Splitter and Duncan were next to him instead of Gary Neal and Duncan. One can complain about the team's lack of rebounding without impugning what Leonard has done in that regard.Quote:
Originally Posted by apalisoc_9
Also, Leonard had two buckets that were assists from Splitter. If you wanted Leonard to do well, you should be yelling for more minutes form Splitter alongside me. Unless you think it's just a coincidence that the Spurs' offense grinds to a halt without Splitter for the fourth game in a row.
Not this game. His defensive rebounds were all off missed jumpers by the Warriors. He had three offensive rebounds, two on the missed dunk and the turnover, and one on a missed three by the Spurs which he put back. That's one hustle board that resulted in something positive for the team. Not sure why you wouldn't want his skills where they belong instead of him being out of position.Quote:
Originally Posted by apalisoc_9
And I agree with you. You're the one who brought it up as though it were relevant.Quote:
Originally Posted by apalisoc_9
Good numbers, and he's not shooting well, not making good decisions, and looks to be completely flustered on offense. Think about how good he can be if he gets it together.Quote:
Originally Posted by apalisoc_9
Fuck the Kawhi haters.
It's not just Leonard. The team isn't really clicking offensively. It's bound to happen, hopefully game 5 at home.
:tuQuote:
Originally Posted by Budkin
our most consistent player in the series and of all the other things that are wrong with the team, we must focus on this :lmao
Pop unfortunately is doing what he has done the last few years, gone completely away from what worked throughout the entire series. That's only necessary under extreme injury situations, and a nightmare matchup, and the Spurs aren't under either scenario right now. Pop is panicking over nothing, and that's costing the Spurs this series. Pop just needs to stick to a rotation and stay with it, unless if there is no chance it works. Changing rotations in the playoffs is a horrible idea.
Also, Pop is messing with Kawhi too much. He gives him the green light, and he doesn't. When you give a young player the green light, then take it away when it matters most, of course his confidence will be shot.
You have highly creative players that aren't in phase mentally with players who have to be told where to be and when. This often results in a turnover. You also have people afraid to lose instead of trying to win. That results in second guessing on a drive like Splitter did last game when he was clear to the rim and just turned if over as he was trying to dump it off.
Basically it comes down to who's pushing the pace. The Warriors have for 3 of the 4 games.
Kawhi is a good finisher on the break. That's a valuable asset. He's not the 2nd coming of Jordan though like some here paint every new acquisition as being.
So where's the Issue? Looks to me the disagreements come from people expecting way to much out of a guy that's reduced by the system and people just happy enough of what he is doing regardless of what position he plays. That's not on Leonard.Quote:
Originally Posted by Obstructed_View
I wanted pop to stay with splitter til the 6 minute work since Duncan looked like he was on a personal vendetta which ultimtaly hurt the team. and With Duncan-Splitter Finishing the game after a couple of minutes rest from splitter.Quote:
Also, Leonard had two buckets that were assists from Splitter. If you wanted Leonard to do well, you should be yelling for more minutes form Splitter alongside me. Unless you think it's just a coincidence that the Spurs' offense grinds to a halt without Splitter for the fourth game in a row.
Not when your opposing teams is ganging up on the offensive board. Any Rebound in the defensive glass is a hustle. From positiong to boxing out to jumping to timing.Quote:
Not this game. His defensive rebounds were all off missed jumpers by the Warriors. He had three offensive rebounds, two on the missed dunk and the turnover, and one on a missed three by the Spurs which he put back. That's one hustle board that resulted in something positive for the team. Not sure why you wouldn't want his skills where they belong instead of him being out of position.
It was mostly directed to posters who complain about kawhi's lack of offensive production.Quote:
And I agree with you. You're the one who brought it up as though it were relevant
Again, disagreements because of difference in expectations. I love Kawhi. But Untill this team accepts the fact that he's got more than what he's being told to do, I wont complain.Quote:
Good numbers, and he's not shooting well, not making good decisions, and looks to be completely flustered on offense. Think about how good he can be if he gets it together.
Not absolutely sure, but kawhi pop allowed kawhi to take 15-18 shots a game on stretches without Manu and Parker. It spiked his confidence. It got spurs fan saying he can be a star. I know for a fact that when you get the kind of responsibility and then reduced to spot shooter and cutter offensively your confidence gets a hit.
I blame this both on kawhi but mostly on pop.
How sad is this fact?..Quote:
Originally Posted by HarlemHeat37
People have built Leonard up to superstar-in=the=making status. I don't think he will ever become a true superstar because he doesn't have the confidence and will to win that players who became superstars have shown by their sophomore year. He can't take charge of a game and put the team on his shoulders. To deify him and demand that he perform at that level is simply crazy.
He will be a good player but not necessarily a great player. He will be in the category of Sean, not Manu or Parker. In some respects, the Spurs system both hides his flaws and exploits his skills.
All this being said, he really needs to step up his contribution on offense to at least the level of the Warriors 4th best player.
Leonard is never going to be a superstar, that's not the point..
His ceiling is a high-end #3 guy on a title team..
Even if his ceiling was higher, he doesn't fit this current system in a star capacity..the Spurs system treats Kawhi Leonard as an equal player to Danny Green and Matt Bonner..the same way it treated Keith Bogans and Bruce Bowen..Leonard is much more talented than any of these players, but this system treats all role players equally..if you're a wing in this system, your offensive role is to sit on the baseline/wings and shoot 3s..
Leonard clearly doesn't excel as a spot-up shooter..his game is in the mid-post/baseline, facing up and attacking..he simply cannot do that in this system..there were many games this year where Leonard looked great when the Spurs ran plays for him, particularly when 1 or 2 of the big 3 was out..
Have you guys ever watched Paul George play basketball?..he can't create offense at all..his ball-handling is weak, he has no moves, etc..he's better than Kawhi because he's taller and a better shooter, but he has the same offensive flaws..he doesn't have restrictions in his system, though..same for Klay Thompson, Chandler Parsons, etc..
The issue is with what most of the people posted in the first page of the thread. He's missing shots, he's out of rhythm on offense, he's hanging his head, he's not aggressive, he doesn't look confident. You guys are pointing to the box score, the rest of us are pointing to what we see on the floor for most of this series. We all know he's a great player. Credit to him for his defense, and for producing, which means catching the rebounds that come right to him, but he's not playing well.Quote:
Originally Posted by apalisoc_9
Regardless of where his ceiling is, HH, people are expecting him to be the guy that he was through most of the regular season. People with their noses in the box score making excuses for him are missing the fact that he's not that guy right now.
He's out of rhythm because he's talking out of rhythm shots. He's not aggressive because the system doesn't need him to be that aggressive. He doesn't look confident because he was averaging 14-17 shots a game when tony and manu was out and is not reduced to cutter and put backs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Obstructed_View
He's playing well enough considering the circumstances. He's also 21-40.
His Free throw and corner are struggling, ..But again, he's not talking those shots like he normally would in the the regular season.
I guess if he's not playing well, everyone's been total crap.
Kawhi is not an all-star level player yet, I dont understand why people want him to have flawless games every-time..His offense is okyish and he is consistant on D. That's kawhi leonard for you right now.
Against arguably the best defense in the NBA, and an all-star/all-NBA defender in Deng..not sure how you can relegate him to spot-up shooter and expect him to get hot, tbh..
Regular season usage rate:
Duncan: 27.8
Parker: 27.7
Ginobili: 25.2
Neal: 21.7
Splitter: 18.2
Joseph: 16.6
Green: 16.6
Leonard: 16.4
Playoffs:
Parker: 31.6
Ginobili: 27
Duncan: 26.7
Neal: 19.7
Leonard: 14.6
Splitter: 14.5
Green: 14.4
Joseph: 14.4
Leonard, in this system, is a spot-up shooter, like Danny Green..Green is an elite shooter that can't create or finish inside, this system is perfect for him..Leonard is an average shooter that excel in the mid-post and interior, this system doesn't compliment his offensive game..
How do you recreate the system in the middle of the season? I think the coaching stuff has put an effort into giving kawhi more responsiblity, they just dont trust him at this point.Quote:
Originally Posted by HarlemHeat37
As much as i love Tony and Timmy as leaders for this team, I don't see them recognizing the offensive match-ups kawhi gets. Manu Does, but I think in this post season Tony and Timmy seems to have lost their passing abilities.
:bang @ Neal.Quote:
Originally Posted by HarlemHeat37
Love pop, but god damn he's stubborn at times.
Aside of him being fatigued, playing elite defense on one of the best SF's in the NBA+Rebounding averaging 13 & 9 on 58% shooting in limited attempts, the guy isn't even healthy, do people not realize this?
He's had tendinitis in his knee, which has been bothering him more and more as the season has gone on. Tendinitis isn't just some normal injury, it will not go away until the offseason when he's doing nothing. This is the same injury that caused him to miss more than a month.
What he's doing is incredibly impressive.
Definitely trueQuote:
Originally Posted by HarlemHeat37
But what id like to see is the same kinda flexibility Pop eventually showed with TP
Once he gave TP the green light to be the 1 man fast break and explore early offense options TP started to maximize output
Im thinking on those delayed types of breaks where the 5 is usually last down court & usually catches at the top of the key and reverses the ball KY could already be setting up at midpost
If positioning is bad or the defense responds well he simply leaves the post and SA runs 1/2 court offense
Just like when TP cant get all the way to the rim
Don't really disagree with any of that, but its a bit late in the game to change the system to leverage Kawhi's obvious skill set. For now, he's going to have to settle for what the system allows him to do. Nothing preventing him from pump faking a 3 and driving for a short range jumper or all the way to the rim. Saw Danny Green do that at least once.Quote:
Originally Posted by HarlemHeat37