Why does Ginobili get a free pass?

He dont, I cringe when he takes those stupid shots with like 19 seconds still on the clock!

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Originally Posted by james evans

i just want to know if there is a player in this whole league that parker can guard one on one, cuz i've yet to see one in all of his years of playing.

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Congrats on being the dumbfuck who finally tries to turn this into a Manu v Parker thread. There's always one of them around.

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Originally Posted by MannyIsGod

Manu has been very athletically gifted. He's not exactly someone who's had to overcome athletic short comings to say that he's somehow special for not being the fastest or tallest is ridiculous. The one huge shortcoming he's had to overcome is due to how bad a beating his body takes his inability to play as many minutes as other players but he's always been one of the most athletic Spurs. He definitely has lot of grit and fight as well. No one will ever question Manu's heart. He's also definitely a team player. Manu loves to pass the ball and no one will deny that.

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Disagree. He's always been crafty and energetic... eurostep and all, but athletic? Maybe when he was in europe playing against euro stiffs. By NBA standards, he's always been below average in the athleticism department. Sure, he had a few thunderous dunks, but it's pretty much always been beating his guy to the rack, not going over anybody.

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Originally Posted by MannyIsGod

But he's not nearly as smart as people here love to give him credit for. Manu makes stupid plays and Manu makes a lot of stupid plays. Sometimes they work and you may not recognize them as a stupid play but they are because the results were good but that doesn't. I'm not saying Manu is stupid or even a low IQ basketball player. He's probably a bit above average. But high IQ basketball players don't make the decisions Manu does on a regular basis.

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Well, I'm gonna agree to disagree.

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Originally Posted by MannyIsGod

Manu is a top 5 Spur of all time and he's a great player. He definitely got a free pass in the past but thats no longer the case. I just don't think he's the smartest (basketball IQ wise) player on the Spurs. Tim Duncan is.

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I never said he's #1, and I agree Tim is probably that guy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFU-wXsRhic

Let me add that since around 2005 onwards (and up until recently, when Parker took some of that role), Manu has been THE guy that is handed the ball to close out games, simply because of his decision-making and unselfishness.

Sure, the 'fouled Dirk' story will always be brought forward, but there's countless of games and playoffs series that the Spurs won by great execution and decisions by Manu in the clutch. Including in seasons we've won it all, like 2005 and 2007.

Go take a look who gave the pass to Horry for that 3 pointer in Detroit in 2005, or even to Tim to close down the series against Seattle that same year. Or who made the plays and passed to Tim for that wide-open 3 pointer to send the game to OT and eventually win that game in 2007 against the Suns. There's countless of plays we just take for granted, but were great decisions and were not necessarily plays Manu finished himself.

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Originally Posted by ElNono

Disagree. He's always been crafty and energetic... eurostep and all, but athletic? Maybe when he was in europe playing against euro stiffs. By NBA standards, he's always been below average in the athleticism department. Sure, he had a few thunderous dunks, but it's pretty much always been beating his guy to the rack, not going over anybody.

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Yes, it's also one reason he continues to play at a high level, even into his mid-30s. If he thrived off his athleticism, he'd be washed up and sitting on the bench like Richard Jefferson by now.

Same goes for Tim Duncan. His athleticism was never his focal point and he continues to play at a high level to this day.

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Originally Posted by MannyIsGod

Look bitch, you're calling me an idiot for shit I didn't even say. If your illiterate ass could read, you might notice I never said he had a low basketball IQ. You might also see I never called him selfish. I said that Manu makes stupid plays and no one here is going to deny that. You want prime example number one? 2006, Manu goes up to block Dirk when the Spurs are up 3 and ends up fouling him. The SMART high IQ basketball play in that situation that is good for the team is to let Dirk go and NOT foul him and allow the Mavericks to tie.

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...touche that play haunts me to this day

he's either hot or cold. if he's hot off the bench then spurs get that extra push and win. if he's cold...and pop continues to play him...then yeah...


that's why he was 6th man of the year. he's meant to come off the bench and provide spark. that's his role for the spurs. it fits the system perfectly.

People, especially Pop, have always given Ginobili a pass for being a high-risk, high-reward type player. Throughout his career, he's made his share of exciting plays, but also has made more than his share of bone-headed plays too. However, it's clear that Ginobili is not the same player as he was a few years ago. That said, it seems to me that he would be better served by adjusting his on-court decision-making such that he's not always taking as many unnecessary chances (uncorking the hot mustard passes when they're not there), not taking as many ill-advised (heat check) shots so early in the shot clock, and playing more within the confines of the offense. That's not to say that he needs to curtail his creativity, it's just that that type of creativity and reckless decision-making isn't necessary on every possession. I realize this would be an adjustment for him, but I think his declining skills warrant such a change in his approach to the game. Ginobili is an extremely smart guy and I wonder if he's even thought about this? Hell, even Michael Jordan had to adjust his game as he got older. Ginobili would be wise to do the same.

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Originally Posted by SpurSwag

...touche that play haunts me to this day

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Me too!

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Originally Posted by ElNono

Let me add that since around 2005 onwards (and up until recently, when Parker took some of that role), Manu has been THE guy that is handed the ball to close out games, simply because of his decision-making and unselfishness.

Sure, the 'fouled Dirk' story will always be brought forward, but there's countless of games and playoffs series that the Spurs won by great execution and decisions by Manu in the clutch. Including in seasons we've won it all, like 2005 and 2007.

Go take a look who gave the pass to Horry for that 3 pointer in Detroit in 2005, or even to Tim to close down the series against Seattle that same year. Or who made the plays and passed to Tim for that wide-open 3 pointer to send the game to OT and eventually win that game in 2007 against the Suns. There's countless of plays we just take for granted, but were great decisions and were not necessarily plays Manu finished himself.

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Ironic in '06 Manu didn't find Horry even though he was wide open. Even though he did it the year before.

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Originally Posted by SenorSpur

People, especially Pop, have always given Ginobili a pass for being a high-risk, high-reward type player. Throughout his career, he's made his share of exciting plays, but also has made more than his share of bone-headed plays too. However, it's clear that Ginobili is not the same player as he was a few years ago. That said, it seems to me that he would be better served by adjusting his on-court decision-making such that he's not always taking as many unnecessary chances (uncorking the hot mustard passes when they're not there), not taking as many ill-advised (heat check) shots so early in the shot clock, and playing more within the confines of the offense. That's not to say that he needs to curtail his creativity, it's just that that type of creativity and reckless decision-making isn't necessary on every possession. I realize this would be an adjustment for him, but I think his declining skills warrant such a change in his approach to the game. Ginobili is an extremely smart guy and I wonder if he's even thought about this? Hell, even Michael Jordan had to adjust his game as he got older. Ginobili would be wise to do the same.

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I agree with this, especially about the "heat check". It seems like he's always doing that now. I think his heat checks are what is cooling him down. Its like he's GOT to be hot to be any good and he's conscious of it. Just play and let it come.

If we are the better team we should be able to beat them while staying within our system. Being all fancy is kind of saying we arent good enough. The simple passes should be enough. Beat them the hard way until the flood gates open then get fancy.

Manu was pretty athletic before that 2008 injury, the way he changed directions at full speed was on par with anyone in the league. And i don't know about free pass, i bet we all yell at the TV screen when he goes off and does something monumentally dumb, like only he can do. But what u gonna do, guy is/was our best option for closing and came up big in the clutch (2mins left in close games) countless times.

I think a lot of us have been talking shit on him. In the past he had some very deceptive athleticism, no he wasn't a world class monkeyballer but he was good enough. Now though, it's like watching Clint Eastwood in Unforgiven instead of Outlaw Josey Whales. He's always been known for breathtaking plays and mind numbingly dumb shit,but it doesn't seem like the beautiful stuff is as prevalent. Hopefully my issues with Manu can be addressed in the offseason, and I'm not saying I want him gone, but we need to figure out what to do with the decline. And fwiw, I still trust Manu in crunch time or tense situations over almost anyone on the team, except Timmy.

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Originally Posted by skulls138

Everyone else tries to play as a unit except Ginobili who is allowed to do the most boneheaded things. When he drives, he does much better, but he continues to throw up threes without distributing the ball. The Spurs way is to go inside and kick it out, Ginobili throws all that out the window. Its playing lazy and scared.

Its madness that in crunch time GS out patienced us and out disciplined us.

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This is one of the few games this season where you CAN'T put the blame on Ginobili. He was the only reliable Spur on offense tonight. TD was good in the first half and horrendous in the secend. Parker's the chief suspect tonight but the injury excuse is protecting him for the moment.

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Originally Posted by Johnny RIngo

This is one of the few games this season where you CAN'T put the blame on Ginobili. He was the only reliable Spur on offense tonight. TD was good in the first half and horrendous in the secend. Parker's the chief suspect tonight but the injury excuse is protecting him for the moment.

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:lol protecting

Lets face it Manu has not been the same since injured himself in the Olympics.....he has been injury prone since....and playing for your national team in the summer dosent help you staying healthy at some point.

I think that Manu is still hurting. I go to the games and see him trying to stay loose all game. Manu goes into the tunnel at the 4min mark in the first period every home game. Is he getting treatment on the hand-string or back before POP puts him in the game at the 7 min. mark? Is he riding a bike to stay loose? Manu gets gassed at the end of every game.(air balls on threes and bad passes) Is there anyone on the Spurs that is not hurting somewhere?

TBH, I'm more disappointed in KL. Dude was suppose to breakout this post season. Instead, he's turned into George Hill. He'll get a few buckets here and there. Rebound the ball now and then. However, most of the time he's clanking jump shots left and right, dribbling all over the place like a chicken without a head, or just flat out disappearing for large portions of the game. The only solid thing about his game this post season has been his D. Although not spectacular, it's been solid, but the Spurs need more from him offensively, plain and simple.

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Originally Posted by Brazil

:lol protecting

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Even you brah? You can't blame Gino he was the only one who hit shit.

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Originally Posted by SpurSwag

you, sir, are an idiot. Manu doesnt do the things he does because he thinks he's so good, he does it because it's best for the team. Sometimes it doesn't pan out and his body doesn't allow him to do certain things he used to do anymore, but to say he has low basketball IQ and is selfish is one of the most idiotic things I've ever heard. Those are complete antonyms of his play

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Agree! MannyIsGod is an idiot and needs to stop posting!

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Originally Posted by Johnny RIngo

This is one of the few games this season where you CAN'T put the blame on Ginobili. He was the only reliable Spur on offense tonight. TD was good in the first half and horrendous in the secend. Parker's the chief suspect tonight but the injury excuse is protecting him for the moment.

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Agree! Manu carried this team! Parker's hurt and Timmy played horrible in the second half! What's wrong with Neal & Leonard! Green played excellent defense but still needs to make his shots! Diaw played like shit and Bonner was Bonner in the playoffs = bricks (LOL)! This is where we need SJAX but that idiot had to fight with Pop and now we are short a scorer! Oh well, on to Game 5!

Ginobili is a gamble. At least he's not scared to take the big shot. He just might not give the result you want everytime

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Originally Posted by ElNono

I get the hate. Dude has been on the decline, and that's undeniable. Some people want Manu to at least score 20 every night, and he's not there anymore. He had a complete game tonight... 4 boards, 3 steals, 2 blocks... he'll do other things to try to help the win. But people don't remember we were in position to win this game thanks to his four 3-pointers, they just remember the one he missed at the end of the game.

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And again... that 3 was wide open, so can't really blame him on this one. The game should have never been that close at this point the game.
Maybe Manu could have run some time on the clock on that last play yeah but there was a dozen plays that should have led to 2 points or more that did not earlier in the quarter so... Let's get over it guys and enjoy Manu while he's still here...

Even with the obvious decline the past few years and the off shooting I must say I'd rather go with him in the final minutes of a close game... Now let's hope other guys step up...