Quick Grades: Spurs vs. Grizzlies - Western Conference Finals Game 2

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Originally Posted by timvp

Matt Bonner C-
Bonner came out like he was going to be the second coming of Larry Bird. Unfortunately, his good play quickly ran dry -- yet he still got a ton of minutes. For a while, Bonner was playing damn well at both ends. But by the second half, he was a liability in all aspects of the game. Why he kept playing I'll never understand.

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Originally Posted by timvp

Boris Diaw C
I thought Diaw started out well but got worse and worse as the game went along. His defense went from hit-first to passive. On offense, it became increasingly difficult for him to hide. Diaw can be very valuable in this series but he needs more consistency from quarter to quarter. Oh, and hitting a few more outside shots would help.

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Agree on the grades. and Bonner playing too many minutes, but since Diaw was struggling as well, along with Duncan in foul trouble, I'm curious as what move Pop could of done to change it up. Small Ball? Blair?

I do get confused as to how the expectations figure into the grades because sometimes they don't seem to reflect what is/was happening.

I also know I'm going to get creamed by Timvp for disagreeing with him, but last night TP played more minutes than any other person on the court. His 15 points and 18 assists (which would have been more had any of his teammates been able to put the ball in the basket in the first quarter, when we only shot at a 32? rate to Memphis' 29% rate), were accompanied by 3 steals and only 2 turnovers in 41 minutes of basketball. Memphis went on their runs when Tony was on the bench, for the most part, excepting of course the ridiculous call on Ginobili that allowed them to tie the game in regulation.

Pop reinserted Tony earlier than usual in the 4th because we looked so terrible with out him, and because they were making a significant run while he was on the bench. So, the way I see it, Tony's production (unparalleled by anyone else but Johnny Moore way back in prehistory) should get him some praise other than "through three quarters he had one of the better games of his life, BUT the fourth quarter he was tired and it was unsightly". Then you go on to say he should have given himself more rest.

I honestly thought that managing a player's minutes was the coaches' decision, not the players. And if he got so tired that he wasn't playing well, then someone should have stepped up for him. They did in the overtime, but blaming Parker for having run faster, farther and longer for more minutes and leading the club to its leads in the first three quarters and then not having any gas left but still trying in the fourth....

I don't know, man...I just thought he deserved more acknowledgment than being blamed for having played his heart out for all the time on the court. The time when he wasn't as effective wasn't due to him inserting himself in the line-up, it was because he carried so much of the load for the entire game before that.

I know, I know...you have much more knowledge than I do and are tired of me challenging you on grades for Parker...

I just don't always understand, man.

Oh, and one last thing...about the 4th quarter when Tony 'was putting up knuckleballs'...does that include the part of the fourth when Memphis had cut the lead to 8 and then he hit a jumper and then got a three to move the spurs' lead back to 13?

Good write-up! :tu

A couple of my thoughts:

Pop's coaching last night had me totally confused. From rotation choices, to play-calling, to failing to call timeouts during the Memphis run, to not getting his troops focused late - it just seemed like he was checked out in this game. I was screaming at the team and at Pop through my television. Crazy. Part of me thought he wanted Memphis to make that run just to keep his guys focused for game 3, not really expecting Memphis to make it all the way back.

I see some people saying Tony Parker deserved better than the B+. I think it's justified or even too generous. He played A or A+ basketball through 3 quarters, and then laid an egg in the 4th. Three A's and a D give you a B average. He never looked to pass or get anyone involved in the 4th quarter. Watching our last 15 possessions or so drove me nuts. And in spite of the 18 assists, he still missed countless opportunities to hit wide-open players on the perimeter, even in the first 3 quarters. I love Tony and his game, but a B+ is fair. He should have had 25 assists last night.

Less Neal and less Bonner. It's that simple. They both seem effective in small doses, but not for extended runs. Give Bonner his 12 minutes...let him hit a couple 3s and dish out some hard fouls and sit him in the 4th. Same for Neal. Short 2 or 3 minute stints for him are fine. Tell him to come in with all out energy on D, and only take a shot in rhythm. A forced shot gets him yanked. Double "Ughs" awarded to both, and to Pop for playing them so much.

Leonard is not 100%, you can tell, but he still played extremely well. Prince is overmatched. Those two open 3s he missed at the end of the first half were frustrating, but that was about all I could complain about. I'd bet he practices 2000 shots from those spots between now and Saturday.

The refs were pretty bad I thought. Some bad calls, and missed calls throughout. I was not impressed.

And speaking of not-impressed, the ESPN crew manning the booth, Simmons, Rose, Magic and Mr. PTI.......good god they are awful. It's hard to watch these guys. 4 guys with seats at the bar have better insight than these 4 so-called 'experts'. The post game talk about Memphis made me wonder if the Grizzlies had actually won the game. Gotta credit Rose for handing out a Pulitzer last night though....nice!

I've like the Spurs matchups in this series since before it started. Parker is the superior point guard, Leonard and Green trump anything the Grizz have at those positions, and our big man rotation is strong enough to slow down Memphis in the paint. I don't think the Grizzlies have the fire power to pull out 4 wins in 5 games. They aren't OKC where they'll suddenly start shooting lights out, and not only that, our defense has improved greatly from last season. Game 3 will be big I think. With 3 days off the Spurs should be rested, so I'm looking for their rotations to be sharp on both sides of the ball and for shots to fall. I'm cautiously optimistic about our chances, in spite of our recent history of losing 2-0 leads in Conference Finals.

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Originally Posted by Ed Helicopter Jones

Good write-up! :tu

A couple of my thoughts:

Pop's coaching last night had me totally confused. From rotation choices, to play-calling, to failing to call timeouts during the Memphis run, to not getting his troops focused late - it just seemed like he was checked out in this game. I was screaming at the team and at Pop through my television. Crazy. Part of me thought he wanted Memphis to make that run just to keep his guys focused for game 3, not really expecting Memphis to make it all the way back.

I see some people saying Tony Parker deserved better than the B+. I think it's justified or even too generous. He played A or A+ basketball through 3 quarters, and then laid an egg in the 4th. Three A's and a D give you a B average. He never looked to pass or get anyone involved in the 4th quarter. Watching our last 15 possessions or so drove me nuts. And in spite of the 18 assists, he still missed countless opportunities to hit wide-open players on the perimeter, even in the first 3 quarters. I love Tony and his game, but a B+ is fair. He should have had 25 assists last night.

Less Neal and less Bonner. It's that simple. They both seem effective in small doses, but not for extended runs. Give Bonner his 12 minutes...let him hit a couple 3s and dish out some hard fouls and sit him in the 4th. Same for Neal. Short 2 or 3 minute stints for him are fine. Tell him to come in with all out energy on D, and only take a shot in rhythm. A forced shot gets him yanked. Double "Ughs" awarded to both, and to Pop for playing them so much.

Leonard is not 100%, you can tell, but he still played extremely well. Prince is overmatched. Those two open 3s he missed at the end of the first half were frustrating, but that was about all I could complain about. I'd bet he practices 2000 shots from those spots between now and Saturday.

The refs were pretty bad I thought. Some bad calls, and missed calls throughout. I was not impressed.

And speaking of not-impressed, the ESPN crew manning the booth, Simmons, Rose, Magic and Mr. PTI.......good god they are awful. It's hard to watch these guys. 4 guys with seats at the bar have better insight than these 4 so-called 'experts'. The post game talk about Memphis made me wonder if the Grizzlies had actually won the game. Gotta credit Rose for handing out a Pulitzer last night though....nice!

I've like the Spurs matchups in this series since before it started. Parker is the superior point guard, Leonard and Green trump anything the Grizz have at those positions, and our big man rotation is strong enough to slow down Memphis in the paint. I don't think the Grizzlies have the fire power to pull out 4 wins in 5 games. They aren't OKC where they'll suddenly start shooting lights out, and not only that, our defense has improved greatly from last season. Game 3 will be big I think. With 3 days off the Spurs should be rested, so I'm looking for their rotations to be sharp on both sides of the ball and for shots to fall. I'm cautiously optimistic about our chances, in spite of our recent history of losing 2-0 leads in Conference Finals.

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As soon as the game ends I switch to NBA TV. Much better than the ESPN stuff even with the awkwardness of watching Barry sit through Parker highlights.

Can't believe of that 3rd Qtr 10-14 Memphis FTs. that was so frustrating..

Tony Parker had an amazing night early in the game with 18 assists. But when he started to stop sharing the ball in the 4th, there came the series of Parker's missed shots, 6 consecutive to be exact. It started with that block from Bayless. It almost costs us the game.

I will downgrade him to B

Tim Duncan showed us how mentally capable he is in crucial situations like in the OT of game 2. Limited moves due to close game and him enjoying 5 fouls and a 2nd OT is possible, but he prevailed. He won the game for San Antonio.

I hope it's okay with you if I will upgrade him to A-


I don't have a problem with Bonner playing more minutes than usual. It's because of his size, 3pt capability, and with TD in foul trouble. Glad he attempted 3s, only this time he missed the 2 impt. ones.

I always think Manu's grades are too high. It makes me think the bar is just set so low now and it makes me sad. Spurs offense lives and dies with Parker because no one else can really take the over the play making load. When Parker tired out, it's no surprise the offense crashed. Duncan can pick up a few possessions and Manu might make a play here or there. However, it makes me wonder how much longer Parker can sustain a superstar level of play. I've been hoping Ginobili gets his head out of his ass all playoffs but with every passing game, the chances of that happening just seem less and less.

Ginobili is averaging: 38% FG, 33% 3PT, 66% FT, and 11 PPG. Those are terrible numbers. He should at least make his free throws. He finds other ways to contribute but he needs to start shooting better if the Spurs want to keep the Grizzlies down.

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Originally Posted by hater

can't disagree on those grades imo

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I can --> Duncan A (defense and OT)

Bonner Diaw and Neal played quite a bit of game 1 in the 3rd quarter. Just didn't work out tonight, Grizzlies defended that line up better. That simple.

Green's minutes need to get bumped up to the 33 minute level.

The whole team ran out of gas in the 4th and that's why their shots were going short off the front rim. This was probably due to the almost maniacal movement and defensive pace that they maintained in the first 3 quarters. This is a strategy devised by Pop to keep Memphis off balance and away from their game. Keeping Zack out of the flow is amazing and frustrates what the Grizzlies do. But it is debilitating physically on our players, especially the Big 3 when they are asked to play a lot more minutes than they played during the regular season.

Pop will have to give them more brief times on the bench to keep their legs under them and catch their breath. We have a pretty good bench and Pop will need to use it more wisely.

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Originally Posted by wildbill2u

The whole team ran out of gas in the 4th and that's why their shots were going short off the front rim. This was probably due to the almost maniacal movement and defensive pace that they maintained in the first 3 quarters. This is a strategy devised by Pop to keep Memphis off balance and away from their game. Keeping Zack out of the flow is amazing and frustrates what the Grizzlies do. But it is debilitating physically on our players, especially the Big 3 when they are asked to play a lot more minutes than they played during the regular season.

Pop will have to give them more brief times on the bench to keep their legs under them and catch their breath. We have a pretty good bench and Pop will need to use it more wisely.

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This is a great observation.

"Good" defense takes much more effort than offense. On offense you're in control, on defense you are reacting. To play defense well, takes much more energy. And the Spurs have been playing it well, which is one of the reasons they run out of gas. Well, playing "good" defense AND being older ;)

this is truely parkers team
mem run started when tp was on the bench and the lead was down to 6 before tp reentered the game
but lets blame tp.....
also someone other then tp needs to go off so tp has the legs to go off in the 4

Refs:

C+ in 1st half

F- in 2nd half

defense in the 1st half was great. Memphis went to the penalty early on D and Spurs started to think too much. That's why they scored a lot

Avoid fouls on the road will be key for the W

I'd like to see a 8 men rotation with Boris/Manu/CJ in Memphis

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Originally Posted by Trainwreck2100

Leonard does not deserve an A his two missed wide open threes were huge.

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Were they misses when tony was in hero mode? Shooters tend to miss those shots when he's in hero mode because the offense is out of rhythm.

It's going to be absolutely fucking ridiculous if they win the series and the majority of the starting 5 average a B in a series you pick the team to lose.

If game 3 goes the way of game 2 I think Pop has to run some plays for Manu to get going. He looked really good in game 2 and shockingly wasn't fed more. For all the times Manu has been fed too much these playoffs, last night would've been a perfect time to give him the ball and create, he looked fresh, he was scoring and hitting the rack well. I agree with the man rotation someone above mentioned. up Green's minutes, up Manu's minutes a tad. It would also help some things if Boris and CJ could make a jump shot. Memphis sagged painfully off of them both.

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Originally Posted by MR-Clutch

Were they misses when tony was in hero mode? Shooters tend to miss those shots when he's in hero mode because the offense is out of rhythm.

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no it was in the 1st half

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Originally Posted by timvp

Tony Parker B+he either needed a lot more rest or he should have paced himself better.

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Neither. This game was too important for Pop or him to fool around with rest/pacing. The minutes weren't the problem (he'd have played 37 and change if not for OT, which is par for the course, so long as it's not a blowout), it's how arduous those minutes are, given that right now, he's the only legit scoring option on the team. Duncan has basically reverted to '11 form offensively in the playoffs and Ginobili has become an ancillary scorer.

They may be able to close this series out either way, but to have any chance in the Finals, Ginobili needs to be in attack mode offensively, looking to score. Enough of this content with facilitating out of the pick-and-roll and shooting threes bullshit.

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Danny Green A-
And why didn't he play more minutes?

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Good question. Young, healthy, zero creative responsibilities offensively, not nearly as big a task defensively as the previous (and really, in most) series, yet Pop acts like he can't play high 30's minutes. I don't get it.

Signs of the times, though: Pop went with him over Ginobili to start OT (which I agreed with) and I don't buy that it was due to fatigue, either. He's a better three-point shooter and defender than Ginobili and if Ginobili is going to be content to cede virtually all play making responsibilities to Parker when they're playing together, even when Parker is gassed, then there's little reason to go with him over Green.

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Tiago Splitter B-
his rebounding remains iffy

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If by iffy, you mean beyond pathetic, then I agree.

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Originally Posted by TD 21

Neither. This game was too important for Pop or him to fool around with rest/pacing. The minutes weren't the problem (he'd have played 37 and change if not for OT, which is par for the course, so long as it's not a blowout), it's how arduous those minutes are, given that right now, he's the only legit scoring option on the team. Duncan has basically reverted to '11 form offensively in the playoffs and Ginobili has become an ancillary scorer.

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Wayyy off. Duncan in the playoffs in 11 pretty much couldn't create anything for himself or others after game 1's first half. This year he's averaging 17 and 9 and took us home yesterday. His shot has been off but physically, he doesn't look like he's laboring and he doesn't throw up garbage like he did in 11.

I think Parker deserves the B+ (A+ for three quarters, D for the fourth, probably a C+ for ot) and Duncan should get an A. The thing about Tony is he's never been a guy who can pound the ball and make something happen for himself in end game situations with the shot clock running down. All of his clutch plays seem to be off of ball movement (Spurs basketball) and yet our playcalling at the end treats Tony like he's Kobe or Durant. They need to keep the motion going even in late game situations.

Spurs have Memphis right where they want them.

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Pop C-

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I'd give Pop half a point more just for that time out he called with 0.5 seconds left before half time. CIA Pop i'm telling you folks .