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Up 2-0 in the Western Conference Finals...Which team did you feel better about at the moment they won game 2?
Perhaps most people will say 2013 because it's happening now, and we all know how 2012 ended. But I honestly felt better about the team in 2012, because they looked great in game 2 against OKC. At that point, I thought we had a real shot at the title. But I think we have a chance this year as well.
Well last years Spurs had a tougher opponents
I say this years Spurs look better. The main difference is the energy and confidence of players like Leonard, Bonner, Green, Joseph. They all seem to be playing with a purpose now. Last season they looked like deer in the headlights.
All comes down to the competition. Memphis is a considerably weaker team than last year's OKC team. That being said, the Heat are waiting this year and may be stronger than ever.
OKC of 2012 is much better than Memphis so this season I feel better..
Exactly. I feel better about this 2-0 lead simply because Memphis clearly is not as good a ballclub as OKC last year.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpursRock20
This years Spurs team plays defense ..... last years team didn't.
Last years opponent had Durant, Harden and Westbrook ..... this years opponent doesn't.
The degree to which the big 3 run out of gas is shocking, more so than last year.
It was the 20th win in a row and the 2nd against a great OKC team
2012 by far
Defense is eons better. And just based on the percentages. It's extremely unlikely that we blow a 2-0 lead two years in a row... especially with last year fresh on their minds and the fact that this might be one of the last chances.
2012 OKC is better than Memphis this year but Miami is better this year than last. They'd beat Memphis in 5, probably us in 6 tbh.
With the offense clicking like it did last year it was easy to get sucked into it. Some columnists even called us best offense ever (et al Simmons).
Furthermore we didn't know if Miami already is there yet and it felt like if we get past OKC we might be favourits vs. Miami.
This year we can count on the Defense and we all know what that gets you! Memphis might be weaker but the tipping point is, that we won't be favs in the Finals anyway.
Last year at this point, i thought we have a chance of about 65% of winning it all (I even caught myself hoping for a fo fo fo fo).
This year feels more like 30% (but higher for this round alone).
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Originally Posted by SpursFan313
:lol OKC, yes... yet we "magically" swept both The Jazz and The Clips like butta' last year.
I'd have to say that I feel better about this year's Spurs. Sure... they played sloppy and were gassed out after last night's game, but hey... they had been playing every other day since The GS series began. They barely got 2 full days of rest before going into the WCF to play The Grizzlies in game 1. They're a more fired-up and blood-thirsty bunch right now, and seem to be peaking at the right time. I certainly hope it continues, and pray there will NOT be another repeat of last year, obviously. I'm sure revenge is definitely a major motivator for them as well. :p:
Defense
Right now the Spurs are looking like the better defensive team...that's just my thought after Games 1 and 2.
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Originally Posted by eric365
One reason last year's WCF defeat hurts a lot is because I think the Spurs had a very good chance of defeating the Heat in the Finals if the two teams had met in 2012.
This year's Heat team seems so good that the Western team will have a hard time regardless of whether it's the Spurs or Grizz.
This year is better.
The Spurs were facing much more pressure last year with the 20 game win streak and getting cupcake opponents in the first 2 rounds while not facing any kind of adversity. Plus OKC was much better than Memphis is this year. Let's not forget the middle of the pack defense they played last year.
This year, the Spurs know anything can happen and seem to be peaking at the right time while facing a reality check against the Warriors which has made them more prepared for this series. That being said, Memphis was in this position in the 1st round against the Clips so they can still win this series. I won't celebrate until the Spurs get 4 wins in the series.
Plus, the first 2 games last year, OKC could have easily won.
The Spurs made a comeback in Game 1 and choked a big lead in Game 2 before getting the win. The Spurs have actually outplayed Memphis for the most part so far while last year, the Spurs just eked out two wins, imo.
The question is, "which team looked better after winning game 2"
Based on that question, I would have to say last year. 20 game winning streak, amazing offense, up to 2-0, want some nasty...we were on our way.
But because of what happened last year, I think that betters our chances for this year.
Heat still have to get past Indy. Indy has a strong interior game and will push Miami. Plus Dwyane Wade is not at full strength and he may not be for the rest of the playoffs. Pay attention, should the Spurs get past Memphis, this is the best chance to get one for the thumb.Quote:
All comes down to the competition. Memphis is a considerably weaker team than last year's OKC team. That being said, the Heat are waiting this year and may be stronger than ever.
Of course this always helps. We completely SUCKED last year. Did we even play any D? Like... at all?! :lolQuote:
Originally Posted by FlashZo
Ehh.. I'm still not convinced the Spurs would have. They have enough players that could contain Tony. Plus Tiago wasn't getting the minutes he gets now. Green's shot looked broken in the WCF. LeBron was too locked in last year. If OKC won it all last year, then it would have hurt, but they didn't.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spurs and Mavs fan
The younger guys have another year of experience, and the older guys are still chugging along (minus Manu). 2013 >>> 2012 except for Manu.
It's close, but Lazarus Duncan, increased focus on D and Kawai's improvement gives this team the edge. I don't think our particular opponent is relevant to the question.
If you want to factor in opponent, ask something like: Would this years' Spurs squad get backdoor swept by last years' OKC team? Or, Would last years' Spurs team be up 2-0 on this years' Grizz? . . . oh, wait . . . never mind.
if gasol or randolf go 15-15 it will be a very difficult win for the Spurs
Haha agreed but I meant "opponent" (referring to okc, hence why I said last years team had A tougher opponent. It autocorrected to opponents for some reason)Quote:
Originally Posted by Legacy
Anyway, we all knew last year's team had to come down to earth eventually, although we surely didn't expect a Backdoor sweep lol
This team has a year of more experience, and aren't folding under the bright lights (...yet?)
Add the fact that the Grizzlies couldn't break 90 points in an OT game, and I'm pretty confident.
I seem to recall feeling very, very relieved that we held on to the Game 2 win over OKC last year, as we really struggled to hold the lead and OKC honestly looked like the better team. And so it proved, although I would've been shocked if you'd told me there would be a backdoor sweep.
I really don't see the Grizzlies as such strong competition, and no way can I see them winning four straight. So yes, I think that the 2013 Spurs have a much better chance of progressing to the finals, but mainly because their opponents are inferior.
Sadly, I don't give us much of a chance against the Heat and fully expect Miami to get the job done. Obviously, I'd be ecstatic to be proven wrong!
The emergence of Leonard is the biggest reason that I think this year's Spurs are better. Also, we're playing much better defense this year than last year.
Truth. Many in the media had declared the 2012 version of the Spurs as one of the greatest teams ever. Their level of basketball smarts/chemistry was unmatched.Quote:
Originally Posted by eric365
Yeah, I agree with most that we have a better chance of winning the conference finals, but a worse chance of winning the Finals. Ah well...
Russell Westbrook James Harden and Kevin Durant...I feel much better about getting past the Grizzlies
I felt better about the 2012 Spurs because they were on a 20-game winning streak. They were the best team in the NBA ... until Game 3 of the WCF. I still look back on that and wonder WTF happened? Unbelievable. And that Game 6 officiating. I try never to bitch about officials, but that was just too much.
But I do feel better about the level of the opponent this year. Harden killed the Spurs in 2012. I see no perimeter player even half as good as him on the Griz roster.
2012 spurs looked better. were winning with more style points. and had the giant winstreak leading right up to this point. 2013 spurs are much, much better defensively and that makes us a better team
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Originally Posted by eric365
I was worried what would happen to the Spurs once they lost a game, and if it would shatter their confidence. I don't worry about this team that way. They're likely not going to sweep Memphis and they damn sure all know they aren't going to sweep Miami.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcadian
Yeah at 20 games in a row 2012 is tempting, but 2013 for the DEFENSE. Last year, if they stopped our O we were in trouble, but now we have the D to win "ugly" ball.
Playing defense is more tiring than not playing defenseQuote:
Originally Posted by Darius McCrary
I picked 2012 because we looked unstoppable.. its easy to look back now and act like you saw 4 losses in a row coming... We swept the first two rounds AND had won the first 2 of round 3. We were even down a ton on the road and came back against the clippers. I do agree with BillMc though that our defense is more reliable this year. I just couldn't see us cooling down like we did at the time. I was very confident last year. I guess I forgot that defense wins championships...
The 2013 team. Unlike 2012, a true measure of a team is how you play a game while trailing, and how you respond after a loss. We never recovered from a loss in 2012, and we were able to commit one of the biggest comebacks in history in 2013. A good vintage spurs team is one that can still win while playing poorly, thats this 2013 team.
Why is everyone so afraid of Miami? We are the only team in the West that has truly challenged them. I say we have a chance to beat them when they get to the Finals.
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Originally Posted by MinuteByMinuteSports
I think that the Spurs may have a 40% chance of beating the Heat in the Finals while every other Western team had at best a 30% chance, but a 40% chance still doesn't give all that much cause for confidence.
This year. Better defense. Worse opponent. Kawhi. Danny.
Wade looks to be about 80%. We can limit him pretty drastically, and with Leonard on LeBron.... oh who am I kidding, LeBron is gonna go off regardless of who guards him.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpursRock20
Still, if we can essentially limit Miami to what LeBron can do (similar to the 2007 Finals actually) I think we stand a chance.
I feel better about every single player in the roster right now then I did in 2012 tbqh.... Who honestly isn't playing better? Maybe Neal. Our defense is also miles miles miles better than it was the previous year, we all know what happens when you rely on outscoring opponents.
I won't lie and say I thought we were gonna lose WCF after being up 2-0 last year (especially not swept), but I feel this spurs team is substantially more sturdy than '12.
Manu and Tony, right?Quote:
Originally Posted by ffadicted
But this year's team is more Duncan-centric, which I like.
2012's edition looked prettier, blazing through a lockout shortened season and surgically disassembling just about every opponent they faced for the better part of two months, then running roughshod on the Jazz and Clippers, all while mounting head scratching statistics and looking just about unstoppable.
2013 is different. 2013's Spurs have seen more adversity, whether by injuries or tough losses or unexplained slumps. Losing Parker to that ankle sprain, cutting Jackson at the end of the season, getting hit with the controversy in Miami, etc. This Spurs team had to survive a conference race along the lines of World War II, and it took just about everything they had to secure the No. 2 seed. Yet, they're here again, up 2-0 in the WCF, despite everything that stood in their way before this. Even if they don't win this series, it's hard not to look at yet another throwback season from Duncan, the return of stubborn defense, and the staying power of Green and Leonard this postseason.
If you ask me, if ANY Spurs team since 2007's title group feels like a team that could win it all, it's 2013. Not because they're that much better than 2012, but because they're earning this run. They're playing brutal defense when they need to and they're locking down shooters that could kill them. They're getting battered and beaten and at times they're setting themselves up for a letdown. However, despite all of the reasons we as fans could point to as evidence that they're incapable of winning the title, none of them have kept them from being exactly where they were a year ago, and perhaps in even better shape to continue.
The only gripe I would have if the Spurs won the championship this year would be those grey jerseys.
2012's team would have won with the much better white jerseys!
Not with TOSB Manu. He seems to have aged ten years from last season to this season(and he wasn't even that great last year).Quote:
Originally Posted by Cry Havoc
2012 Team would have lost to Golden State in 6. They struggled on team defense big time, they were usually attempting to play 1 on 1 defense. 2013 plays more team defense. And how about Green/Leonard stepping up? (First 2 Games)
2012 Green- 5.0ppg, .250%.
2013 Green- 13.5ppg, .580%.
2012 Leonard- 12.5ppg, .476%
2013 Leonard- 15.0ppg, .632%
the only thing from last year that was better than this year was Manu :lol
It's weird. The Spurs looked so much stronger last year and yet I'm more confident in this team, despite the fact that they've looked so fucking shaky at times. Still worried about them dropping the 2-0 lead again, though.
We had to put one of our dogs down last year on the night before Game 3 of the WCF; the Spurs never won again.
We had to put another of our dogs down today, two nights before Game 3 of the WCF. Through my tears, I'm hoping for a better outcome for the Spurs.
This year better defense, Kawhi and Green are better this year and Tiago is starting, Duncan and Parker playing better than last year, decent back up point guard. Only one playing worse this year is Manu. Golden State last round played better than the Jazz and Clippers did last year in the playoffs and it was a good thing to be challenged last round.
The 2012 collapse was exacerbated by a Joey Crawford rip job in game 5. Spurs had that series in hand till then. I know I know...whining about the refs is lame but in that particular case there is merit.
Well, I think the 2013 team is the better team, because of last year if nothing else. More experience for the youngsters, much improved D - better team. But honestly, they look like shit - gassed, tired, old, winning games by the skin of their teeth, giving up huge leads . . . yeah, the 2012 looked much, much more impressive after 2 games than the 2013 team. I mean, come on - 20 straight wins, offense clicking like it was some kind of effing clinic. Yeah, that team looked serious, imposing, put together. But this team is better.
I'm so sorry, friend. Having to make that decision for your loved pet is so hard, and twice within the span of a year is just terrible. Sorry for your family, FWD.Quote:
Originally Posted by FromWayDowntown
Ugh seriously? I'm so sorry. Losing pets is horrible.Quote:
Originally Posted by FromWayDowntown
I think it would be hard to argue that Timmy, Kawhi, Danny, and Tiago were better last year and given the considerable amount of minutes those guys play on a nightly basis, it would seem illogical almost to argue that the 2012 team was better than the 2013 team is. I also think that while the 2013 Warriors might not have been superior to the 2012 Clippers on a talent-for-talent basis, they provided the Spurs with an ideal WCSF opponent in many ways, but mostly because they provided enough adversity for the Spurs to have to figure some things out and commit in real time to defense as a way to win tight playoff games. And I think it may prove to be beneficial to the younger guys that they went through the 2012 WCF. It reminds them that they have to continue playing and that being up 2-0 is nothing. It also put them through the fire of playoff games in an extremely hostile road environment; I'd argue that the benefits of that experience have already shown up with Kawhi, Danny, and Tiago, who all played well at times in the ear-splitting atmosphere of Oracle.Quote:
Originally Posted by easjer
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Originally Posted by easjer
Thank you both; it really means a lot.Quote:
Originally Posted by Budkin
I think we're thinking similar things, if not saying them (forgive me, I was up late last night and it's getting late now). You just restated what I was thinking.Quote:
Originally Posted by FromWayDowntown
The initial question posed by the poll was which team looked better - and my answer is, even knowing about the collapse that is about to occur to the 2012 team after game 2, they look better. Now, I took the question to be about confidence and appearances, and answered in that vein. The 2012 team was a much more attractive-appearing team that appeared to have so much going for it, sportswriters were tripping over themselves to flatter and build up the Spurs because it seemed inevitable they would win at that point in time. Ruthless, efficient, and ready to collapse - but we could only see the first two. Whereas this Spurs team looks beat up, worn down, and seem to be perpetually pulling miracles out of thin air to squeak through by the skin of their teeth (except that I haven't felt generally that they games were outside the Spurs' control).
The question posed in the first post is a different question and has a different answer; which team is better? Well, as has been articulated, the current team has the experience of last year spurring them on, and another year's worth of experience for the youngins in the system, and better D, and a much less compressed (if longer) season. They faced much more adversity this go round, which has honed their decision making, play making and defense.
Two sides of a coin perhaps, but I think it's hard to deny that there was a heady feeling the day after game 2 in the WCF last year, and this year, it just feels wearisome. I'm waiting for the result, rather than laser focused on the game itself because I find the actual games to be so frustrating.
Yes. By quoting your post, I didn't mean to suggest disagreement with your point.Quote:
Originally Posted by easjer
Combined with this years Game 2 near choke.Quote:
Originally Posted by eric365
Still, this year could be the Champ.
See? Tired. I'm about five minutes away from crashing in the chair with the laptop, so I'll just drag myself to bed now and stop repeating myself again.Quote:
Originally Posted by FromWayDowntown
Also, after 20 wins and "Give me some Nasty!"
Fark, i think we all thought the trophy was looking great.
I felt better last year simply because we hadn't lost a playoff game yet and had won 20 in a row! Yeah, OKC was better than Memphis, but it's hard to feel better than when you are on a 20-game win streak and swept your first two playoff opponents.
With that being said, I think we beat Memphis in six games and I think we have a decent shot against the Heat in the Finals. The Heat aren't unbeatable as many seem to think. Hell, they almost lost to Indiana in game 1 of the ECF.
the Heat have almost lost plenty of times yet here they stand having won 46 out of their last 49 games.Quote:
Originally Posted by superjames1992
Indeed, but we are the second-best team in the NBA, at worst, right now. We will give them all they can handle, IMO.Quote:
Originally Posted by JingleJangleJingle
Someone said this the Spurs winning feels wearisome this year but for me
it feels like a Championship run... like they can't even truly lose. there is a better word for it in tagalog. (filipino) Stars aligning for them and all that jazz.
After that double OT win against the Warriors, I feel like the Spurs acquired a smoldering belief. They've been through trials been humbled and cast down, forced to elevate and they rose again. They're haunted men, hungry...
They get stops, they execute, they play together... they have a chip on their shoulder, they love each other, they collectively know it's the best/last chance.
They're grown mature men, with great minds and coaching. They have a purpose they've been chasing for 6 years, it's almost there. It's like that Boston team from a few years ago.
I think out of Spurs and Heat... the Spurs have the greater desire to becomes champion this year.... Miami, I don't know it's not like Jordan's teams or Kobe's... I'm not sure if they have that ruthlessness to not letdown from last year and repeat. I think inside they don't have as much hunger since they won last year. They have egos.
I still think Lebron is immature, case in point how he responded to the Pacers coach's comments. and if we face his team in the finals, all that same inner child of his can be defeated like in 2007. I think Bosh is that way too... they're chuckle heads when it comes down to it. Just my opinion. Birdman also.. ya feel me?
Ray Allen can lose his poise he has OCD he can go very cold when feeling uncomfortable. Wade is gimpy.
We'll see.
Defense, confident Green and rejuvenated TD are the differences this year.
I'd say that this year's Spurs is mentally nastier than the last year's, too.
2012 Spurs won 20 games in a row... That`s not even close
And this could be true. I have never seen a team with a chemistry, we had last year. When we were down around 18 in the half against the Clipps I just felt, chill out guys, we will win it. Really, last year seemed the best offensive basketball the world ever seen. Our player movement, our motion-flow offense, i thought it was like something else. We were 2 steps ahead of the NBA on the offensive end. Unfortunately, OKC was too good of a defensive team, they role players stepped up, while Danny, Neal and Bonner disappeared. And of course, they were the more athletic team. Right now, the Spurs are the better athletic team.Quote:
Originally Posted by mudyez
I believe.
:lobt::lobt::lobt::lobt:+:lobt:
True! I'm following the NBA since the 1993/94 season and only the AdelmanKings and mayby just maybe the 7SecondsAndLessSuns are in the conversation with last years Spurs.Quote:
Originally Posted by szkorhetz
Which team looked better? 2012, no question.
Which team probably has a better chance of winning? 2013.
Sorry about your dogs, FWD.Quote:
Originally Posted by FromWayDowntown
I voted 2013 just for the hell of it.
Im not so sure. but we'll see. Miami's role players this year are better than last year.Quote:
Originally Posted by Man In Black
Last year's Spurs looked better, but the 20 game win streak was beginning to become more of a story than it needed to be. Plus, after winning the first 10 in the playoffs, you wondered how they'd respond if adversity struck. Obviously, they were not mentally prepared.
This year's Spurs just look grittier, nastier, hungrier.
Last year's team looked better after Game 2 than this year's. People forget the 2012 Spurs were world beaters and being proclaimed one of the greatest playoff teams of all time. I genuinely believe we would've won the championship last year if we hadn't stumbled so badly towards the end.
That said, this year's team is poised to go much further. Individually, many of our players are better. Collectively, our defense is as strong as it's been in years. Couple that with us facing a significantly weaker opponent in Memphis, and you have to feel good about our chances of winning this year's WCF compared to last year's.
AT THE TIME 2012 looked better; hell, that team looked as good as any team I could remember. Hindsight is 20/20, but at the time, it looked pretty damn good. This team, as a carryover from that one, IMO, doesn't "look" or feel as good to me in this moment (comparing the confidence I felt after 2-0 last year vs. this year). So I voted "2012".
That said, with hindsight being so clear, this years team is, in fact, better situated than last years; not just because of the vast defensive improvement, but because of the competition.
If spurs get to the finals against the heat, I think the heat are going to face with the same dilemma Spurs had against OKC last year. First time facing adversity against a team peaking at the right time.
2012 for sure. Hindsight is 20/20, but I don't think anyone was predicting the Spurs would be completely marginalized offensively with a couple seemingly simple adjustments. Defensive ineptitude aside, the Spurs were ROLLING last year and looked unstoppable.
Having said that, with the benefit of hindsight you can see this Spurs team is much more focused defensively and is playing a team with fewer offensive weapons than the Thunder had last year. I give them a good shot this year at taking the whole thing.
Miami's not looking so invincible anymore...
Indy has length and they actually attack the paint. Miami has nothing down low and can't score efficiently in the half court.
Lebron trying to make the right play passing it instead of taking it himself... flashbacks anyone?
Wow. That just. Wow. There aren't words for how much that sucks.Quote:
Originally Posted by FromWayDowntown
That sucks man. I can't imagine putting down one of my dogs...Quote:
Originally Posted by FromWayDowntown
20 game winning streak and beat OKC in Game 2 despite Durant, Westbrook, and Harden all having monster games (25+ points each)...we looked like a mothafucking juggernaut last season tbh. I was more confident in the strength of last years team than I am this year, wasnt expecting to sweep OKC but definitely wasnt expecting to be backdoor swept either. Sure the Grizz are a weaker team than 2012 OKC but last year it felt like it didnt matter who they put in front of the Spurs. I thought it was our year. :cry
Well, now they have more losses in the WCF than we do. I just don't think they're unbeatable like some do.Quote:
Originally Posted by JingleJangleJingle
If we win tonight, 2013 officially surpasses 2012..