Mavericks "Certain" to Trade No. 13 Pick?

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Originally Posted by timmy2003

Height: 7'2" Wingspan: 7'8.5"
I like him.

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And he can jump pretty high for a man his size. He would be a nice rim protector.

they should offer ginobli to see if they are dumb enough to take it.

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Originally Posted by Chinook

That doesn't matter. A team can't take back salary unless they're under the cap or have a trade exception. Most teams that have cap space have it because they've worked hard to shed salary. They aren't just going to give it up for Carter and a likely bust (and Cunningham, whom you seem to keep forgetting).

You seem to underestimate the value of cap space in big free-agent summers. The Knicks gave Houston Jordan Hill (a rookie 10th-overall selection) a pick and the right to switch picks so that Houston would take Jared Jeffries' $6 Million off their hands. If Dallas can clear the same amount of cap space for just the 13th pick, you better believe they're going to do it.

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3m in cap space is nothing when you're getting a free 13th pick and a big name player for it. You're citing New York and Dallas as examples. . .two teams who don't give a shit about selling tickets or getting cheap talent since money is no object for them. Only 1/6th of the league is super rich and able to ignore value.

There is a ton of value in a 13th pick and Vince Carter. You're acting like teams who are under the cap are all huge free agent draws who can't afford to just basically take a free 13th pick and a ticket seller for practically nothing. Many teams would be jumping at that.

It adds more value and profitability to a franchise than adding an overpaid guy like Monta Ellis would. His salary would be triple what Carter and the 13th pick would get and not rake in enough profit for those teams to make up for the extra expendeture. Then of course they'd still have a ton of money to play with to add someone else or multiple someone else's anyway.

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Originally Posted by Kidd K

3m in cap space is nothing when you're getting a free 13th pick and a big name player for it. You're citing New York and Dallas as examples. . .two teams who don't give a shit about selling tickets or getting cheap talent since money is no object for them. Only 1/6th of the league is super rich and able to ignore value.

There is a ton of value in a 13th pick and Vince Carter. You're acting like teams who are under the cap are all huge free agent draws who can't afford to just basically take a free 13th pick and a ticket seller for practically nothing. Many teams would be jumping at that.

It adds more value and profitability to a franchise than adding an overpaid guy like Monta Ellis would. His salary would be triple what Carter and the 13th pick would get and not rake in enough profit for those teams to make up for the extra expendeture. Then of course they'd still have a ton of money to play with to add someone else or multiple someone else's anyway.

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I'm not sure why you're confused about this. It's not about teams WANTING to spend the money; it's about them being ABLE to spend the money. Most teams in the NBA are over the cap right now. They CAN'T take back Carter and Cunningham for nothing unless they have a trade-exception/non-guaranteed deal. It's not about having the cash for it.

Here's a breakdown for you to look at. The numbers aren't perfect, but they're accurate enough for you to get an idea of what I'm saying.

-Only two teams are under the salary cap by more than $4.2 Million this season: Phoenix and Sacramento.

-Three other teams have large enough trade exceptions to absorb Carter and Cunningham (Chicago, Memphis and Orlando).

-Atlanta, the Lakers, San Antonio and Toronto have partially guaranteed or fully non-guaranteed 2013-2014 deals to offer enough "free" salary to get both players.



So that's nine teams that can give the Mavericks what they want financially. Then you have to look at who's likely to want to make the deals.

-Phoenix could make the trade, although they have their sights set on Josh Smith and will probably try to shed salary rather than take on $5.4 Million in cap obligations.

-Sacramento legitimately could try for the trade, but it's far from certain that they'd be interested in making the move, as they have little use for Carter, don't really need the pick and aren't known for making shrewd deals in the first place.

-Chicago is in cap hell. They don't want to add salary.

-Memphis might, and it'd be a good deal for them. Hollinger may have bigger plans this off-season, though.

-Orlando could make the deal to acquire another asset. I don't know if they want to cut into their Howard exception yet, though.

-Atlanta's out. They want that room for free agents, and they already have two mid-first picks.

-The Lakers are in the same position as the Bulls, although Carter would be a nice get for them. I think they'll just waive Duhon and pocket his savings.

-The Spurs are the team in question in this thread.

-Toronto should make this trade to get back some asset, but it would require them giving up Lowery, who cost them their own first. Still, ultimately they'd get Carter and Cunningham (and a year lease on Lowery) just to move down one spot in the draft. Not bad.


So as you can see, it's not a clear-cut that someone will offer a cheap deal to Dallas as you think. The Spurs may well have the best offer. Also, really internalize that Dallas wants to move their pick. They'd be trading Carter as sweetener for the pick as much as they are the other way around.

Cuban saying they haven't discussed trading Marion : http://espn.go.com/blog/dallas/maver...dealing-marion

I wonder how much of that is them valuing him like Chinook said and how much is just aht they can't without his cooperation since he has an ETO.

I remember before the trade deadline there was talk about Marion trades and he said he only wanted to go to a contender, if we have any shot it's that we're probably the only contender who'd make the move.

Problem is we don't have the piece to do it without a third team, Green is the only salary that fit with Bonner for Marion and obviously you don't want to lose him.

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Originally Posted by Baam

Cuban saying they haven't discussed trading Marion : http://espn.go.com/blog/dallas/maver...dealing-marion

I wonder how much of that is them valuing him like Chinook said and how much is just aht they can't without his cooperation since he has an ETO.

I remember before the trade deadline there was talk about Marion trades and he said he only wanted to go to a contender, if we have any shot it's that we're probably the only contender who'd make the move.

Problem is we don't have the piece to do it without a third team, Green is the only salary that fit with Bonner for Marion and obviously you don't want to lose him.

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If this drags out into July, the Spurs could just use cap space to acquire him. They wouldn't need to trade Green.

They're preparing themselves to try and sign Deron Williams again.

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Originally Posted by timmy2003

You overestimate the value of Green. Noway Maves would give up 2 or 3 first round picks for him.

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Green is on a great contract, plays 80th percentile D at SG and is one of the top 5-10 spot up shooters in the league. One of those two contracts is to take on Marion, plus you're giving cap relief through Bonner.

I'd love Marion but would find it hard to part with Green given the uncertainty in the backcourt (Neal, Manu). Marion has a 15% trade kicker - I read somewhere this is paid by the outgoing team? At $9 million, unlikely that the Spurs would be able to bring anyone else in besides him, Tiago and Manu.

Bonner for Carter/Bernard James/#13

They net $2,563,604 on the salary exchange after cutting Bonner, and also save the salary slot for the pick, which I believe someone said was about $1.7M.

If they're really going all out for a FA, the trade makes sense, but I just can't see Cuban doing it even if it nets them almost $4.3M, since we are the other party to the trade.

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Originally Posted by Chinook

I'm not sure why you're confused about this. It's not about teams WANTING to spend the money; it's about them being ABLE to spend the money. Most teams in the NBA are over the cap right now. They CAN'T take back Carter and Cunningham for nothing unless they have a trade-exception/non-guaranteed deal. It's not about having the cash for it.

Here's a breakdown for you to look at. The numbers aren't perfect, but they're accurate enough for you to get an idea of what I'm saying.

-Only two teams are under the salary cap by more than $4.2 Million this season: Phoenix and Sacramento.

-Three other teams have large enough trade exceptions to absorb Carter and Cunningham (Chicago, Memphis and Orlando).

-Atlanta, the Lakers, San Antonio and Toronto have partially guaranteed or fully non-guaranteed 2013-2014 deals to offer enough "free" salary to get both players.



So that's nine teams that can give the Mavericks what they want financially. Then you have to look at who's likely to want to make the deals.

-Phoenix could make the trade, although they have their sights set on Josh Smith and will probably try to shed salary rather than take on $5.4 Million in cap obligations.

-Sacramento legitimately could try for the trade, but it's far from certain that they'd be interested in making the move, as they have little use for Carter, don't really need the pick and aren't known for making shrewd deals in the first place.

-Chicago is in cap hell. They don't want to add salary.

-Memphis might, and it'd be a good deal for them. Hollinger may have bigger plans this off-season, though.

-Orlando could make the deal to acquire another asset. I don't know if they want to cut into their Howard exception yet, though.

-Atlanta's out. They want that room for free agents, and they already have two mid-first picks.

-The Lakers are in the same position as the Bulls, although Carter would be a nice get for them. I think they'll just waive Duhon and pocket his savings.

-The Spurs are the team in question in this thread.

-Toronto should make this trade to get back some asset, but it would require them giving up Lowery, who cost them their own first. Still, ultimately they'd get Carter and Cunningham (and a year lease on Lowery) just to move down one spot in the draft. Not bad.


So as you can see, it's not a clear-cut that someone will offer a cheap deal to Dallas as you think. The Spurs may well have the best offer. Also, really internalize that Dallas wants to move their pick. They'd be trading Carter as sweetener for the pick as much as they are the other way around.

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And then there are 3 team deals and the fact that you can buy draft picks for "cash considerations" and that signing picks can be done over the salary cap. You're only looking at teams with trade exceptions or are below the cap, but those aren't the only ones in play.

So it's really more than 9, and I see no reason why any of those teams would refuse a basically free pick and ticket seller at the cost of just a few mil of cap space. Thanks for the lengthy reply, was interesting to read your thoughts. I still don't see why anyone would turn down a basically free pick in exchange for a cheaply paid ticket seller who can still play at a moderate level. Nothing about that deal is bad for the "other team".

Marion's deal on the other hand, is terrible and I can certainly see why he would be forced through on a trade with the pick included. Something has to sweeten that deal. Carter though, he's already a bargain, I don't see why the pick would be thrown in when it's already a deal. They can easily get more for it. It doesn't matter if teams who draft sometimes draft busts. 13th pick has good potential.