Blazers Had Agreed to Contract Terms with Tiago Splitter

Blazers did reach agreement w/ Spurs C Tiago Splitter -- 4yrs, $36M. When became apparent SA would match, sides agreed not to go further.

https://twitter.com/ChrisBHaynes

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Originally Posted by Mel_13

Blazers did reach agreement w/ Spurs C Tiago Splitter -- 4yrs, $36M. When became apparent SA would match, sides agreed not to go further.

https://twitter.com/ChrisBHaynes

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Interesting.

good find

spurs had to pay splitter that much or lose him for nothing or a sign and trade

That changes things a bit. Glad the Spurs were able to keep Splitter.

Wow, good to know I guess. I'm all for the Tiago signing, not salty about it at all unlike a lot of posters here. Hope he continues his increasingly better play.

So basically they overpaid. Good job Blazers didn't even have to risk getting an overpaid Splitter on their hands by going through with it.

I split this out to it's own thread since it's rather substantial.

This makes it easier to swallow Splitter's deal -- even though I was fine with it. Despite his flaws, losing Splitter would have been devastating. Centers who can fit the Spurs system offensively and are also an asset defensively are exceedingly rare. Sure, he's not useful in all series and he tends to shrink under pressure ... but he's still one of the very few centers who'd be a fit next to Duncan on this team. I don't know if there are 5 other players who you could replace Splitter with who make less money.

Never really had a problem with it tbh. Manu's contract on the other hand...

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Originally Posted by Robz4000

Never really had a problem with it tbh. Manu's contract on the other hand...

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AGREED!

Manu should have taken less with decline in play.

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Originally Posted by ducks

good find

spurs had to pay splitter that much or lose him for nothing or a sign and trade

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Yep, damn.

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Originally Posted by Robz4000

Never really had a problem with it tbh. Manu's contract on the other hand...

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we will judge manu's contract at the end of the season...

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Originally Posted by Kineto

we will judge manu's contract at the end of the 2014-2015 season...

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fify

The Blazers have an history of fucking with the Spurs for the hell of it.

I don't buy that it's a good signing. He has been worse than Bonner on this last run. That's a fact. Bonner outplayed a prime Tiago Splitter so let's give him a huge contract.

I hope it's not RJ 2.0 but if it is they can only blame themselves. Even if you bring the band back together Splitter was not as important to the band as a player like Gary Neal the last 3 years.

Glad we kept him.

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Originally Posted by Baam

The Blazers have an history of fucking with the Spurs for the hell of it.

I don't buy that it's a good signing. He has been worse than Bonner on this last run. That's a fact. Bonner outplayed a prime Tiago Splitter so let's give him a huge contract.

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????????? Did you see his post D in the LA and Memphis series? You don't seem to have a clue there.

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Originally Posted by Sean Cagney

????????? Did you see his post D in the LA and Memphis series? You don't seem to have a clue there.

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to be fair Bonner played lights out against the Lakers

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Originally Posted by Sean Cagney

????????? Did you see his post D in the LA and Memphis series? You don't seem to have a clue there.

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Splitter was the worst player in the Lakers series he was like +1 for the series, Bonner and Baynes did better on Howard who was triple teamed anyway. He did a bit better vs Memphis and his best defensive play wasn't on Zbo (and Bonner did just as well on Zbo basically), it was a switch on Conley that everyone remembers...

Losing Spitter would've been a big blow to the team. His new contract makes more sense now knowing the Blazers had agreed to terms with him.

That's pretty much what we were speculating away. Good to see him back in San Antonio rather than stuck in Portland. I bet his knees are thankful as well.

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Originally Posted by Chinook

That's pretty much what we were speculating away. Good to see him back in San Antonio rather than stuck in Portland. I bet his knees are thankful as well.

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A career saving move for him.

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Originally Posted by Chinook

That's pretty much what we were speculating away. Good to see him back in San Antonio rather than stuck in Portland. I bet his knees are thankful as well.

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If they still want him I'd trade him in an heartbeat for Robin Lopez and TRob...

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Originally Posted by Baam

If they still want him I'd trade him in an heartbeat for Robin Lopez and TRob...

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:rollin

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Originally Posted by Joyrider

:rollin

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Yeah two players with the potential to be better than him, maybe even much better and for the price of one Tiago Splitter...

Oh wait what could we do without T-Vag, we need him so much I forgot, not like we went to the WCF in 2012 and the Finals last season with basically nothing from him...

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Originally Posted by timvp

I split this out to it's own thread since it's rather substantial.

This makes it easier to swallow Splitter's deal -- even though I was fine with it. Despite his flaws, losing Splitter would have been devastating. Centers who can fit the Spurs system offensively and are also an asset defensively are exceedingly rare. Sure, he's not useful in all series and he tends to shrink under pressure ... but he's still one of the very few centers who'd be a fit next to Duncan on this team. I don't know if there are 5 other players who you could replace Splitter with who make less money.

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Yes, very true. Tiago's already gone through the 2-3 year period it takes Pop to trust somebody. With Kawhi and Michael Finley being the exceptions to that rule. So if we had had to replace Tiago, it would have meant some other big going through that process. I'm sure Duncan was not in favor of that.

How does this whole "ignore" list thing work again?

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Originally Posted by Baam

Splitter was the worst player in the Lakers series he was like +1 for the series, Bonner and Baynes did better on Howard who was triple teamed anyway. He did a bit better vs Memphis and his best defensive play wasn't on Zbo (and Bonner did just as well on Zbo basically), it was a switch on Conley that everyone remembers...

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So you go by plus minus now I see? Funny some have a high + at times and the hardly hit a shot, meaningless stat at times. Bonner did not guard Howard alot, Baynes did for a game in a stretch. You go off one half? Bonner did not go as good on Z BO as Splitter, what games were you watching? Splitter was also huge in GS series whether you know it or not, aside from Stats when Tim sat that one game he was huge! He got on on D up top faster and he was a big reason we won that game. He did better than you are giving him credit for, bigtime.

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Originally Posted by spurraider21

to be fair Bonner played lights out against the Lakers

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He shot the ball well, surprising.

Sorry but you're in denial, Bonner outplayed him overall, not to talk about Boris who took a huge dump on him... He had some moments and to be fair he got hurt but he sucked overall, that's the bottom line.

And Gary Neal also easily outplayed him the last 3 post seasons...

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Originally Posted by Sean Cagney

He shot the ball well, surprising.

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while games 3 and 4 were routes from the start, games 1 and 2 were a bit more... interesting. and in those games Bonner played pretty damn well. was nearly flawless from the field and played acceptable defense. when he got beat, he made sure he made dwight earn his points with free throws. he only gave up one and-1 to dwight that i remember. he was a +29 in an 11 point game 2 win (meaning we were -18 when he wasn't in) and he was a +18 in a 12 point game 1 win.

edit: just want to be clear that i was calling for him to be salary dumped this offseason. either waived for 1mil, traded, or amnestied. especially considering linko signed for 3.1* million and bonbon is making 3.95. but lets not kid ourselves and say he didn't play great against the Lakers and Memphis. he is a floor-spacing big that has great value when the other team has non-mobile bigs. this is why you don't see him get minutes against miami, gsw, etc

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Originally Posted by timvp

I split this out to it's own thread since it's rather substantial.

This makes it easier to swallow Splitter's deal -- even though I was fine with it. Despite his flaws, losing Splitter would have been devastating. Centers who can fit the Spurs system offensively and are also an asset defensively are exceedingly rare. Sure, he's not useful in all series and he tends to shrink under pressure ... but he's still one of the very few centers who'd be a fit next to Duncan on this team. I don't know if there are 5 other players who you could replace Splitter with who make less money.

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If you wanted to be optimistic about Tiago (and, to be fair, I'm not entirely sure I am) you could argue that whatever jitters and intimidation he experienced in the 2012 West Finals were enough to get him over that hump in 2013 and allowed him to play very well in the 2013 West Finals. One would hope that having gone all the way through the playoffs, having dealt with that Miami team, and having had to play all the way through to Game 7 of the Finals might ease some of his passivity if he's faced with a situation like that again. Maybe, having gone through it once, he'll be able to put all extraneous stuff aside and just play basketball now, no matter the situation. When he just plays and is appropriately aggressive, he can be a real asset.

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Originally Posted by timvp

I split this out to it's own thread since it's rather substantial.

This makes it easier to swallow Splitter's deal -- even though I was fine with it. Despite his flaws, losing Splitter would have been devastating. Centers who can fit the Spurs system offensively and are also an asset defensively are exceedingly rare. Sure, he's not useful in all series and he tends to shrink under pressure ... but he's still one of the very few centers who'd be a fit next to Duncan on this team. I don't know if there are 5 other players who you could replace Splitter with who make less money.

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I'm not so sure the market set the rate for Splitter since it was only one team, but nonetheless, the Spurs had no choice but to match that contract or lose Splitter and then have to try to find a repalcement for him. And it's not like he is grossly overpaid.

I told you fuckers.

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Originally Posted by Mel_13

Blazers did reach agreement w/ Spurs C Tiago Splitter -- 4yrs, $36M. When became apparent SA would match, sides agreed not to go further.

https://twitter.com/ChrisBHaynes

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Hmm....I wonder if we next get a new tweet how another team had offered Manu $14 million and we had to...........

Would rather have S&T to Portland for assets and used the money to go after Millsap tbh.

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Originally Posted by AFBlue

Would rather have S&T to Portland for assets and used the money to go after Millsap tbh.

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Sure, why not go up against Memphis & Houston with an undersized front line?

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Originally Posted by K-State Spur

Sure, why not go up against Memphis & Houston with an undersized front line?

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yeah, I just don't get the millsap love here? I live in utah and would not want us to touch him.

take that you tiago-hating idiots

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Originally Posted by K-State Spur

Sure, why not go up against Memphis & Houston with an undersized front line?

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Because the 'ship goes through Memphis and Houston right?

At this point, Splitter is what he is...a situational player. Paying Splitter $9M/yr when that's his ceiling is a poor decision. And extending his deal two years beyond the Duncan era compounds the issue of overpaying in the first place.

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Originally Posted by spurraider21

while games 3 and 4 were routes from the start, games 1 and 2 were a bit more... interesting. and in those games Bonner played pretty damn well. was nearly flawless from the field and played acceptable defense. when he got beat, he made sure he made dwight earn his points with free throws. he only gave up one and-1 to dwight that i remember. he was a +29 in an 11 point game 2 win (meaning we were -18 when he wasn't in) and he was a +18 in a 12 point game 1 win.

edit: just want to be clear that i was calling for him to be salary dumped this offseason. either waived for 1mil, traded, or amnestied. especially considering linko signed for 3.1* million and bonbon is making 3.95. but lets not kid ourselves and say he didn't play great against the Lakers and Memphis. he is a floor-spacing big that has great value when the other team has non-mobile bigs. this is why you don't see him get minutes against miami, gsw, etc

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Yeah I was just going to say in some series he is completely useless like GSW and Miami, he should never step foot on a floor in a series against an athletic team with wings etc. out there, he has no use then. This is why I wanted to play INDY in the finals! Not just having HC but we match up better with bigger slower teams than we did say GSW and Miami (But thats heresay now). I wanted him gone too, that near 4 mill for a guy who could not play in the FINALS of all times is just too much to me, he is strictly a situational role player and I wanted him out.

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Originally Posted by Sean Cagney

Yeah I was just going to say in some series he is completely useless like GSW and Miami, he should never step foot on a floor in a series against an athletic team with wings etc. out there, he has no use then. This is why I wanted to play INDY in the finals! Not just having HC but we match up better with bigger slower teams than we did say GSW and Miami (But thats heresay now). I wanted him gone too, that near 4 mill for a guy who could not play in the FINALS of all times is just too much to me, he is strictly a situational role player and I wanted him out.

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the fact that indiana doesn't have lebron would be sufficient reason to prefer them as an opponent to miami

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Originally Posted by timvp

I split this out to it's own thread since it's rather substantial.

This makes it easier to swallow Splitter's deal -- even though I was fine with it. Despite his flaws, losing Splitter would have been devastating. Centers who can fit the Spurs system offensively and are also an asset defensively are exceedingly rare. Sure, he's not useful in all series and he tends to shrink under pressure ... but he's still one of the very few centers who'd be a fit next to Duncan on this team. I don't know if there are 5 other players who you could replace Splitter with who make less money.

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Even more noteworthy when you consider him playing next to Duncan barely 2 years ago was far from a sure thing.

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Originally Posted by spurraider21

the fact that indiana doesn't have lebron would be sufficient reason to prefer them as an opponent to miami

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Yeah, I mean that guy is alright!

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Originally Posted by Robz4000

Never really had a problem with it tbh. Manu's contract on the other hand...

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Manu would have gotten his deal too... From someone else

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Originally Posted by AFBlue

Because the 'ship goes through Memphis and Houston right?

At this point, Splitter is what he is...a situational player. Paying Splitter $9M/yr when that's his ceiling is a poor decision. And extending his deal two years beyond the Duncan era compounds the issue of overpaying in the first place.

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Those are probably 2 of the 3 toughest competitors in the West along with OKC. How soon we forget that this team had major issues with big front line opponents. Tiago's ascension to the starting lineup has essentially made that moot.

Whatever Splitter is, when you look at bigs who are making 9M year - he's very comparable, better or equal to most of them. That's the going rate for a 6'11 efficient post player, even if they have certain matchup issues.

The other issue was that you'd rather give the money to Millsap, an undersized 4 who does virtually every thing worse than Tiago (except shoot midrange jumpers) for almost the exact same price.

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Originally Posted by Sean Cagney

Yeah I was just going to say in some series he is completely useless like GSW and Miami, he should never step foot on a floor in a series against an athletic team with wings etc. out there, he has no use then. This is why I wanted to play INDY in the finals! Not just having HC but we match up better with bigger slower teams than we did say GSW and Miami (But thats heresay now). I wanted him gone too, that near 4 mill for a guy who could not play in the FINALS of all times is just too much to me, he is strictly a situational role player and I wanted him out.

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Once he was recovered from the injury - he was pretty decent against GSW, with an excellent game to close out the series.

Splitter is a wet pussy, but he was a top 15 defender among big men this season and unlike a lot of defensive bigs, he's competent on the offensive end..it's unfortunate that he's soft and has been a letdown in the playoffs, but it would have been foolish to let him go, tbh..

The Spurs are now a defensive-minded team, tbh..they ranked 3rd in defense this year, and Splitter was arguably the team's 2nd best defender this season, behind Duncan, tbh..statistically, Splitter was only behind Duncan on this team in defensive value IIRC..

He couldn't play against Miami, but that's the case for most secondary bigs in the league, tbh..let's hope he uses the embarrassment as motivation, though..

Still don't like the deal.. He's peaked offensively and that's pretty sad because the dude is soft and can't finish consistently. He's been blocked by the rim a lot of times. I can't argue with the stats of his defense but look at the system, the first sign of small ball and Pop will pull him. First major fuck up when he switches on a player Pop pulls him, I'm not saying that it's not the going rate for a big but I'd rather have someone who's a tad undersized who can rebound consistently and shoot or go up strong.. Someone like JJ Hickson.

Our success in LA was predicated on double and triple teaming Dwight and knowing they didn't have any shooters, we had a better team. Against GSW it was our perimeter defense that saved the day it wasn't because Tiago was stopping Bogut from going HAM or whoever else they threw at us. Memphis was a beefed up version of LA, they have bigs but they don't have consistent shooters who spread the floor. We were still bringing doubles against Zbo and leaving guys open because they couldn't put up enough points to beat us.

Can't just stick Tiago on Dwight without help coming over and that leaves shooters open, in fact if they can put Omer at the 4 then I'm sure Pop will go small with Diaw or Pendergraph because it spreads the floor. Tiago is useful against OKC but he won't be a game changer, helps against GSW but again if they go small we'll do the same, he'll help against Memphis but again they have no shooters. Against Indy he's a body out there but no way will he get the best of Hibbert ( a guy that Duncan works with in the summer).

His value is good against a few teams and the regular season for a spell but playoff basketball he's useful if everything lines up properly.

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Originally Posted by silverblackfan

That changes things a bit. Glad the Spurs were able to keep Splitter.

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Quite a bit. They came up with the deal not S.A.

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Originally Posted by Baam

The Blazers have an history of fucking with the Spurs for the hell of it.

I don't buy that it's a good signing. He has been worse than Bonner on this last run. That's a fact. Bonner outplayed a prime Tiago Splitter so let's give him a huge contract.

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http://replygif.net/i/357.gif
What the hell playoffs were you watching? Before the Finals, Tiago was one of our best producers on the defensive side.

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Originally Posted by AFBlue

Would rather have S&T to Portland for assets and used the money to go after Millsap tbh.

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No freaking way. Millsap would be good to play small ball. We lose our 7 footer we're screwed against Houston, LA, and anyone else with an actual legit Center.

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Originally Posted by timvp

I split this out to it's own thread since it's rather substantial.

This makes it easier to swallow Splitter's deal -- even though I was fine with it. Despite his flaws, losing Splitter would have been devastating. Centers who can fit the Spurs system offensively and are also an asset defensively are exceedingly rare. Sure, he's not useful in all series and he tends to shrink under pressure ... but he's still one of the very few centers who'd be a fit next to Duncan on this team. I don't know if there are 5 other players who you could replace Splitter with who make less money.

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I agree.

And I thought Splitter doesn't care if he is benched or play longer minutes. He is injury-free missed only 1 game in regular season.
If we sign other centers (like Oden) and lose Splitter, health will again haunt us before playoffs...losing homecourt to Miami has something to do with the big 3 missing combined 51 games last season (TD-13 games, TP- 16 games, Manu -22 games). With the way TD played in 2012-13, homecourt advantage in the entire playoffs was possible. And they could've eliminated the Heat in 5-6 games.

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Originally Posted by TheGoldStandard

Still don't like the deal.. He's peaked offensively and that's pretty sad because the dude is soft and can't finish consistently. He's been blocked by the rim a lot of times. I can't argue with the stats of his defense but look at the system, the first sign of small ball and Pop will pull him. First major fuck up when he switches on a player Pop pulls him, I'm not saying that it's not the going rate for a big but I'd rather have someone who's a tad undersized who can rebound consistently and shoot or go up strong.. Someone like JJ Hickson.

Our success in LA was predicated on double and triple teaming Dwight and knowing they didn't have any shooters, we had a better team. Against GSW it was our perimeter defense that saved the day it wasn't because Tiago was stopping Bogut from going HAM or whoever else they threw at us. Memphis was a beefed up version of LA, they have bigs but they don't have consistent shooters who spread the floor. We were still bringing doubles against Zbo and leaving guys open because they couldn't put up enough points to beat us.

Can't just stick Tiago on Dwight without help coming over and that leaves shooters open, in fact if they can put Omer at the 4 then I'm sure Pop will go small with Diaw or Pendergraph because it spreads the floor. Tiago is useful against OKC but he won't be a game changer, helps against GSW but again if they go small we'll do the same, he'll help against Memphis but again they have no shooters. Against Indy he's a body out there but no way will he get the best of Hibbert ( a guy that Duncan works with in the summer).

His value is good against a few teams and the regular season for a spell but playoff basketball he's useful if everything lines up properly.

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Where to begin.

1. He is the 4th leading scorer on at title contender. The 2nd option is also an post player. He still manages 10.8 ppg (as a starter). He also shot 56% FG and 74% FT. That is extremely efficient. Throw in some fantastic rim protection and solid passing and you have one of the better Centers in the league (not top 5, obviously but top 10 easily).

2.JJ Hickson?!?! Really? Portland Fans have a joke about him " Hickson tried to defend himself against the criticism thats he's a bad defender, until it cut into the lane for an uncontested layup" He is a poor defender, which is shame cause he is an excellent rebounder and athletic. They picked Robin Lopez over Hickson for a reason. One can protect a basket, one can't. He'd be fine in a more limited role as a 4/5 combo off the bench, but with a better defender along side him.

3. Against the Clippers (in the playoffs), the Spurs packed the paint and dared anyone to take a jumper against us. It worked well, Paul couldn't penetrate. Griffin fell into a trap of shooting jumpers, he couldn't make, and Jordon was a non factor. They actually played Kenyon Martin over him despite signing him to a $40 million dollar extension the off-season before. Splitter can definitely defend the post, but sending help off poor shooters makes plenty of sense. Why have Zbo possibly score against him, insted send Green off and front the post or double hard to keep him from getting in his moves.

4. Spitter seldom played Bogut, His coverage was Landy, Ezeli and Lee (if memory serves me correctly). Duncan had some trouble of against him. He's big and can score in the P&R. We still won the series pretty handily.

5. Splitter is the ideal option for Splitter. He keeps his, hands high and moves his feet and lower body well. He forces them into a very difficult shot & you're giving Howard way too much credit as a post player. Putting Asik is suicide the floor spacing would be non existent, forgot Lin, Parsons and Harden from getting anywhere near the rim. P&R would be ineffective because neither can shoots from outside of 5 feet. Both are horrid FT shooters, Pop would be in heaven. Asik has no interest in playing together or coming off the bench in a much reduced role. He wants out and Houston, may be inclined.

He was pretty effective in the OT of game 3. He came up big and put the proverbially nail in Memphis.

He was a bench player in '11 vs OKC. He strugged but improved his FT shooting drastically, paving the way for him to start. He can improve still, 28 is rather young for a Center. He will figure things out, part of it is confidence. He needs to finish stronger and not shy away from contact as much. Thats a correctable flaw. He really doesn't get blocked very often. It happened 3 or four times in a 3 game span and you claim its a problem. He uses the rim to protect his shot from defenders and his left hook is hard to block (because its a left hook).

Pop pulled him, instead of having him defend Mike Miller. Our small ball rotation was actually pretty darn good. Having him play 6 minutes in between the 1st and 2nd and 3rd and 4th allows Duncan plenty of rest and still gives the Spurs rim protection and potientally some offense.

This contract is solid, and he will have a bettter season as a full time starter (he came off the bench for 23 minutes, repressing him real numbers). Our starting lineup is fantastic on both sides of the ball. Hopefully Kawi won't miss 20+ games (78-80 games played would be great) Parker & Duncan both missed more than a dozen games. Better health could yield even better results for the Spurs and Splitter.

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Originally Posted by Spursfan092120

No freaking way. Millsap would be good to play small ball. We lose our 7 footer we're screwed against Houston, LA, and anyone else with an actual legit Center.

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You're acting like Dwight is Kareem. He gets owned by Duncan pretty consistently. Its basically just him on Houston ( in the post). Its not like Asik is going to crush us.

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Pop pulled him, instead of having him defend Mike Miller.

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sometimes I just can't understand Pop...1 Splitter foul early in the game & he will yank him out for long min. on the bench :(

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Originally Posted by cd021

You're acting like Dwight is Kareem. He gets owned by Duncan pretty consistently. Its basically just him on Houston ( in the post). Its not like Asik is going to crush us.

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And what do we do with Randolph? Marc Gasol? We need a C if we're going to be a legit contender, otherwise we're 2nd or WCF fodder every year. Yeah, maybe he was situational, but those situations will happen in the playoffs, and we'll need him. 95% of the year, he was instrumental to our success...I'll pay $9 mill for 95%.

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Originally Posted by K-State Spur

Sure, why not go up against Memphis & Houston with an undersized front line?

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Cause we all know Dwight is a great post player. And can take over a game with his back to the rim.

Memphis has issues. But can still be a threat, I suppose.

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Originally Posted by Spursfan092120

And what do we do with Randolph? Marc Gasol? We need a C if we're going to be a legit contender, otherwise we're 2nd or WCF fodder every year. Yeah, maybe he was situational, but those situations will happen in the playoffs, and we'll need him. 95% of the year, he was instrumental to our success...I'll pay $9 mill for 95%.

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I like the Splitter deal. People here are drastically overrating D12 as a post player. He is a much better P&R player.

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Originally Posted by cd021

I like the Splitter deal. People here are drastically overrating D12 as a post player. He is a much better P&R player.

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I'm not overrating him..I said he's legit...he is. Say anything else and you're not paying attention...he's a double double every time he steps on the court. He's a cancer in the locker room, but he's still a legit big man.

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Originally Posted by Baseline

Yes, very true. Tiago's already gone through the 2-3 year period it takes Pop to trust somebody. With Kawhi and Michael Finley being the exceptions to that rule. So if we had had to replace Tiago, it would have meant some other big going through that process. I'm sure Duncan was not in favor of that.

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Just like it took Pop alot of time to trust Horry, Nesterovic, Mohammed, Oberto, Elson.

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Originally Posted by cd021

Pop pulled him, instead of having him defend Mike Miller. Our small ball rotation was actually pretty darn good. Having him play 6 minutes in between the 1st and 2nd and 3rd and 4th allows Duncan plenty of rest and still gives the Spurs rim protection and potientally some offense.

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We don't do small ball better than the Heat. The only reason we had a chance was because of our defense backed by two seven footers.

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Originally Posted by Spursfan092120

And what do we do with Randolph? Marc Gasol? We need a C if we're going to be a legit contender, otherwise we're 2nd or WCF fodder every year. Yeah, maybe he was situational, but those situations will happen in the playoffs, and we'll need him. 95% of the year, he was instrumental to our success...I'll pay $9 mill for 95%.

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He's a situational player whose "situation" is that he's effective against about 28 teams in the league. :lol

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Originally Posted by tesseractive

He's a situational player whose "situation" is that he's effective against about 28 teams in the league. :lol

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Yep...so we play him against those teams, work on his game against the others, and try him out against them. If it ain't working, sit his ass down and bring in Boris.

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Originally Posted by TheGoldStandard

Still don't like the deal.. He's peaked offensively and that's pretty sad because the dude is soft and can't finish consistently. He's been blocked by the rim a lot of times. I can't argue with the stats of his defense but look at the system, the first sign of small ball and Pop will pull him. First major fuck up when he switches on a player Pop pulls him, I'm not saying that it's not the going rate for a big but I'd rather have someone who's a tad undersized who can rebound consistently and shoot or go up strong.. Someone like JJ Hickson.

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Someone like JJ Hickson? Hickson played for Blazers last year and Blazers decided to ffer 4 years 36M contract to Splitter instead of resigning with Hickson for 3 years 15M. Why did they do that?

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Originally Posted by tuncaboylu

Someone like JJ Hickson? Hickson played for Blazers last year and Blazers decided to ffer 4 years 36M contract to Splitter instead of resigning with Hickson for 3 years 15M. Why did they do that?

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To be fair Portland has made a lot of mistakes in the past.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Robz4000

Never really had a problem with it tbh. Manu's contract on the other hand...

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... and considering manu will play only 20mpg and play in only 50 games makes it more ludicrous

Quote:

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Originally Posted by therealtruth

We don't do small ball better than the Heat. The only reason we had a chance was because of our defense backed by two seven footers.

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Disagree. Splitter hardly played in game 6 & 7 but we our defense was still very strong. Diaw/ Duncan was a better tandem IMO.

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Originally Posted by Spursfan092120

I'm not overrating him..I said he's legit...he is. Say anything else and you're not paying attention...he's a double double every time he steps on the court. He's a cancer in the locker room, but he's still a legit big man.

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I said Howard can't score in the post. He can get double-doubles but alot come off of the glass, P&R's and free throws. He is legit just not Duncan in his prime. People are assuming him as the 2nd coming of Shaq. He is just not that guy.

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Originally Posted by cd021

I said Howard can't score in the post. He can get double-doubles but alot come off of the glass, P&R's and free throws. He is legit just not Duncan in his prime. People are assuming him as the 2nd coming of Shaq. He is just not that guy.

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God no...I agree. I was responding to you saying I was acting like he was Kareem...never said anything like that. I'm just saying he's a legitimate big that we would need a big to cover.

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Originally Posted by Spursfan092120

God no...I agree. I was responding to you saying I was acting like he was Kareem...never said anything like that. I'm just saying he's a legitimate big that we would need a big to cover.

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Even though I qouted your original post, I didn't necessarily mean that you thought he was Kareem. I was more or less annoyed with the notion in general that Dwight is this monster in the thread. Its not entirely true. He can be a 20 pt 15 board guy ,sure, but most of that is coming from other area's. We have more than enough size to challenge him. They will go small and Duncan/Splitter have enough size to cover him. If all else fails, foul hm and watch hm go 4-10 from the line.

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Originally Posted by K-State Spur

Those are probably 2 of the 3 toughest competitors in the West along with OKC. How soon we forget that this team had major issues with big front line opponents. Tiago's ascension to the starting lineup has essentially made that moot.

Whatever Splitter is, when you look at bigs who are making 9M year - he's very comparable, better or equal to most of them. That's the going rate for a 6'11 efficient post player, even if they have certain matchup issues.

The other issue was that you'd rather give the money to Millsap, an undersized 4 who does virtually every thing worse than Tiago (except shoot midrange jumpers) for almost the exact same price.

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1. Houston isn't a top-3 team in the west until they prove it...and Howard was owned by Baynes for God sakes. Memphis is the only playoff team in the west with two competent bigs that must be defended together.

2. This "going rate" bullshit has to stop. I get it...teams overpay for size. That doesn't make it the right basketball decision for the Spurs to do it. What's worse is that Splitter got two years beyond Duncan's likely retirement. Without Duncan, I expect Tiago to be much less effective than he is now on both ends of the court.

3. Yes, Millsap is "undersized". He's also the complete threat offensively that Splitter is not. And it's not that he's terrible defensively either...just doesn't play the Center position and give the illusion of a "big" frontline. He also took a deal that would've ended along with the big 3 and provided maximum cap flexibility that offseason.

Look, I'll admit that losing Splitter would've been a hit to the defense played by the first unit...but they had options to stay relevant (e.g. Millsap, trade exception from S&T) and not overpay.

1-Splitter was great on Howard. He was great on Gasol (2) and Randolph. He was great on Ibaka in the regular season this year. He was great on Bosh in the Finals. He's the best pick-and-roll defender on the team. Nuff said.

2-If everyone "overpays" for something, then it's not overpaying -- it's literally just paying the going rate. That's why people said it, because Splitter's value IS actually what he got, not some deflated number some posters try to pretend it is. For god's sake, he was one of the league leaders in WS/48 and top 15 in both offensive and defensive rating. He was probably worth even more than he got when we get right down to it.

3-:lol Millsap being worth $9.5 Million a year but Splitter not even being worth $9 Million. Don't even know what to say to that, to be honest.

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Originally Posted by Chinook

1-Splitter was great on Howard. He was great on Gasol (2) and Randolph. He was great on Ibaka in the regular season this year. He was great on Bosh in the Finals. He's the best pick-and-roll defender on the team. Nuff said.

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That's a lie, he was never great on Ibaka this year. Actually Ibaka had his worst game against the Spurs at the beginning of the season with Boris starting.

You do tend to massively overate some Spurs players...

With Boris starting :

Serge Ibaka, PF

31

2-7

0-1

0-0

1

8

9

0

0

2

1

5

-8

4

With Splitter starting :

Serge Ibaka, PF

39

10-16

0-0

5-6

5

12

17

1

0

3

3

2

+24

25

Serge Ibaka, PF

36

4-8

0-2

5-6

4

12

16

0

0

3

2

4

+4

13

Serge Ibaka, PF

34

5-9

1-1

0-0

3

8

11

1

0

3

0

4

+13

11

Also Bonner was just as good on Randolph who was fronted and triple teamed anyway...

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Originally Posted by Baam

That's a lie, he was never great on Ibaka this year. Actually Ibaka had his worst game against the Spurs at the beginning of the season with Boris starting.

You do tend to massively overate some Spurs players...

With Boris starting :

Serge Ibaka, PF

31

2-7

0-1

0-0

1

8

9

0

0

2

1

5

-8

4

With Splitter starting :

Serge Ibaka, PF

39

10-16

0-0

5-6

5

12

17

1

0

3

3

2

+24

25

Serge Ibaka, PF

36

4-8

0-2

5-6

4

12

16

0

0

3

2

4

+4

13

Serge Ibaka, PF

34

5-9

1-1

0-0

3

8

11

1

0

3

0

4

+13

11

Also Bonner was just as good on Randolph who was fronted and triple teamed anyway...

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That's about the most superficial analysis I've ever seen. You can't just look at box scores and lineups. There are a lot of factors, such as if the Thunder played a lot of small-ball (which pushes Ibaka on Duncan) or whether Splitter played the four primarily or the backup five (regardless of him starting). And having Diaw be a better defender wouldn't make Splitter a bad one, anyway.

Regardless, even if I conceded Ibaka to you, do you care to say that he wasn't great on Bosh, or the Gasols? I know you don't like him, so you're inclined to think he was bad on Howard for some reason. But his mobility was a huge help in Golden State, and he was great in Memphis, not only on the bigs (who were never triple-teamed -- they didn't need to be) but was also the main reason the series didn't go at least five with his defense on Conley at the end of regulation in Game 3.

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Originally Posted by Chinook

1-Splitter was great on Howard. He was great on Gasol (2) and Randolph. He was great on Ibaka in the regular season this year. He was great on Bosh in the Finals. He's the best pick-and-roll defender on the team. Nuff said.

2-If everyone "overpays" for something, then it's not overpaying -- it's literally just paying the going rate. That's why people said it, because Splitter's value IS actually what he got, not some deflated number some posters try to pretend it is. For god's sake, he was one of the league leaders in WS/48 and top 15 in both offensive and defensive rating. He was probably worth even more than he got when we get right down to it.

3-:lol Millsap being worth $9.5 Million a year but Splitter not even being worth $9 Million. Don't even know what to say to that, to be honest.

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You can have a counter-argument without being a condescending asshole. Why are you laughing off Millsap when he's posted superior PER and overall stats over the last three years? And, yes the extra $500K/yr would be worth not paying $17M for two years in the post Big-3 era.

I'm guessing you feel Splitter is worth exactly what he got, or more. I just happen to think the opportunity cost of retaining Splitter was higher than he'll actually return. We probably won't agree, so maybe we leave it at that. I said when he signed that I neither loved or hated it, so it's really not worth arguing anymore.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Chinook

That's about the most superficial analysis I've ever seen. You can't just look at box scores and lineups. There are a lot of factors, such as if the Thunder played a lot of small-ball (which pushes Ibaka on Duncan) or whether Splitter played the four primarily or the backup five (regardless of him starting). And having Diaw be a better defender wouldn't make Splitter a bad one, anyway.

Regardless, even if I conceded Ibaka to you, do you care to say that he wasn't great on Bosh, or the Gasols? I know you don't like him, so you're inclined to think he was bad on Howard for some reason. But his mobility was a huge help in Golden State, and he was great in Memphis, not only on the bigs (who were never triple-teamed -- they didn't need to be) but was also the main reason the series didn't go at least five with his defense on Conley at the end of regulation in Game 3.

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Well I don't think he sucks, he has quick feet for his size so he's good at defending the PnR I agree with that much.

I think it's a bit weird to bring up his Finals, I also don't remember his limited minutes in that series in details but I remember Bosh being left open a lot on purpose...

He was good against Memphis yeah and indeed made the best play of his Spurs career on Conley but still...

Ultimately I think they're paying for not disrupting a good thing and not having to find someone else at this stage of Tim's career more than for how good he really is on his own.

Is it worth it? Who knows, I don't really like it but it might turn out to be.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AFBlue

You can have a counter-argument without being a condescending asshole. Why are you laughing off Millsap when he's posted superior PER and overall stats over the last three years? And, yes the extra $500K/yr would be worth not paying $17M for two years in the post Big-3 era.

I'm guessing you feel Splitter is worth exactly what he got, or more. I just happen to think the opportunity cost of retaining Splitter was higher than he'll actually return. We probably won't agree, so maybe we leave it at that. I said when he signed that I neither loved or hated it, so it's really not worth arguing anymore.

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I did not intend to sound like a jerk. But really, this is like the 500th time someone's stepped up and said Player X is worth more than Splitter and Tiago is overpaid and that he wouldn't do anything without Duncan ... When really, there are no stats which indicate that. The whole of people's discontent comes from Splitter's performance in the Finals, which was admittedly bad but which certainly doesn't make him less valuable that the contract he got. Millsap is a good player, but he's not better than Splitter for what the Spurs need. In every advanced stat besides PER, Splitter comes out ahead. Even in career PER, the two of them are tied.

Splitter is legitimately one of the top-10 bigs in the league at making his team better. He deserves much more credit for the Spurs' success than he gets. He has is flaws and he's not untradeable, but there was not a realistic upgrade out there. Only Chandler (and maybe Howard) would really do a better job starting next to Duncan than Splitter has. Really, he's helped Tim nearly as much as Tim has helped him.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Baam

Well I don't think he sucks, he has quick feet for his size so he's good at defending the PnR I agree with that much.

I think it's a bit weird to bring up his Finals, I also don't remember his limited minutes in that series in details but I remember Bosh being left open a lot on purpose...

He was good against Memphis yeah and indeed made the best play of his Spurs career on Conley but still...

Ultimately I think they're paying for not disrupting a good thing and not having to find someone else at this stage of Tim's career more than for how good he really is on his own.

Is it worth it? Who knows, I don't really like it but it might turn out to be.

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Bosh was left open in the sense that they wanted him to shoot rather than let James get to the basket. But Splitter was able to close out better on him than Duncan, and so he was able to force Bosh to miss a lot more often than Duncan was, especially after Bosh moved inside the arch after Game 1.

I agree that Tiago has his problems. Despite everything I've been saying, I agree that Splitter not adjusting during the Finals is worrisome. He can't be expected to be the guy if he can't do a better job at handling that type of pressure. He also need to get stronger post moves. Hook shots and up-and-unders are cool tricks, but he needs to be able to go up strong and get dunks or at least uncontested short layups. As it stands right now, he can only score in the post on a good shooting night.

But the fact remains that he's top-15 in both offensive and defensive rating and top-10 in WS/48. His importance to the team is pretty apparent. He certainly has an impact beyond simply being propped up by Duncan. The Spurs' task now is to make that impact more explicit. If they can, then his contract will be considered a steal like Varejao's is. If they can't then he'll just be another overpaid big that won't really be that hard to move. He'll never be an albatross in the same way players like Brendan Haywood and Tyrus Thomas were.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AFBlue

1. Houston isn't a top-3 team in the west until they prove it...and Howard was owned by Baynes for God sakes. Memphis is the only playoff team in the west with two competent bigs that must be defended together.

2. This "going rate" bullshit has to stop. I get it...teams overpay for size. That doesn't make it the right basketball decision for the Spurs to do it. What's worse is that Splitter got two years beyond Duncan's likely retirement. Without Duncan, I expect Tiago to be much less effective than he is now on both ends of the court.

3. Yes, Millsap is "undersized". He's also the complete threat offensively that Splitter is not. And it's not that he's terrible defensively either...just doesn't play the Center position and give the illusion of a "big" frontline. He also took a deal that would've ended along with the big 3 and provided maximum cap flexibility that offseason.

Look, I'll admit that losing Splitter would've been a hit to the defense played by the first unit...but they had options to stay relevant (e.g. Millsap, trade exception from S&T) and not overpay.

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1) They may well prove it this year. On paper, they're certainly one of the top 3 competitors. This edition of Miami became the class of the East before they proved it.

2) The Spurs have almost a completely wide open cap after 2 years - one deal currently extending into it isn't going to kill anything.. And if they come to your way of thinking, Tiago's deal is VERY tradeable. As you yourself admit - teams overpay size. Especially size that can defend & play efficient offense.

3) Why do you quote "undersized"? He is undersized. Now, a "complete" offensive threat - no. He's got jumpshooter range that Tiago doesn't. But he's got little/no low post game. He's essentially a better rebounding version of Carl Landry, but those rebounding numbers are trending in the wrong direction - his rate has dropped by over 20% compared to when he was a high energy guy as a rookie. At this point, Splitter is a better player on both O & D glass, in addition to defending both P&R and low post significantly better. And undersized bigs don't tend to age as well as players with legit size.

*) Not trying to stay relevant, trying to win a title.

**) Again, I don't understand how they overpaid for Splitter, but should have paid same rate for Millsap??? From a statistical measure, they're essentially equivalent - Millsap slightly better PER, Splitter better in win-shares. Then Tiago has legit size, "corporate knowledge", and is almost unanimously considered a better defender.

never had a problem with it, manu could have recieved a little less and the two signings shouldn't have happened.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Chinook

But the fact remains that he's top-15 in both offensive and defensive rating and top-10 in WS/48. His importance to the team is pretty apparent. He certainly has an impact beyond simply being propped up by Duncan. The Spurs' task now is to make that impact more explicit. If they can, then his contract will be considered a steal like Varejao's is. If they can't then he'll just be another overpaid big that won't really be that hard to move. He'll never be an albatross in the same way players like Brendan Haywood and Tyrus Thomas were.

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It's not that difficult. Put him in the post and run the offense out of him. It will force him to develop there. And it's not that hasn't shown the ability to work there. It's just that the team hasn't stuck with it enough. They've preferred to just only run pick and roll with him. They need to be able to give different looks on offense and I think initiating more offense with Kawhi, Tiago, and possibly Green will help that.