Summer League Thoughts: Spurs vs. Raptors - July 14, 2013

Cory Joseph
Overall, I thought he was really good in the first half before fizzling after halftime. He's getting better and better at playing in fast forward, which is a great fit for a backup to TP. His defense was strong all night and he did good work on the boards. He missed a couple easy shots but his ability to generate open looks was above average. He got sloppy in the second half, although there was a stretch of the game that he played like the best player on the court. While he could have played better, he didn't do anything tonight to hurt his standing with the Spurs.

Nando De Colo
Ugh. He's quickly playing himself off the team. I didn't like anything about his play. His D was slightly better from the first game -- but the improvement was from terrible to really bad. Offensively, he's not making plays. He can't create for himself. He looks uncomfortable in traffic. His finishes at the rim were weak. He was too often off balance when shooting from the perimeter. His body language is deplorable; I don't know if he's frustrated with his play or he resents being on the summer league team. Whatever the case may be, if he doesn't pick it up soon, the Spurs will probably end up salary dumping him somewhere by the end of the summer.

Aron Baynes
The good: Great post defense most of the night against Valanciunas, who is widely regarded as the best center in this summer league. A few times he picked up weak fouls or gave up baseline too easly but overall he was excellent. His work on the boards was a plus, he defended the rim better than last game and his effort throughout the night was commendable. On offense, he has soft touch on his jumper, very good form and it looks like his range is quite far. The bad: Did he go to the Tiago-Splitter-in-the-playoffs school of finishing around the basket when we weren't looking? Way too many weak attempts and flip shots. He has to use his large, strong body to finish with more power. He also lost his temper a few times -- and that wouldn't help him earn any minutes under Pop. He needs to control his emotions, stay steady and work on his consistency from possession to possession.

DeShaun Thomas
Another nice showing by the rook. After two summer league games, he definitely looks worthy of a roster spot. Offensively, he's proving he can get his shot off against NBA athletes, which is key for an undersized player. He has the same form whether he's wide open or defended, which is another mark of natural born scorer. He's also a much more willing passer than advertised and his court vision looks to be strong for a forward. His fluidity around the basket is a plus and he can quickly find seams to the rim. Defensively, he corralled a few contested boards and was willing to fight in the interior. He spent much of his night defending a small forward in Acy but we didn't learn much because Acy can't shoot so he just sagged into the paint. It's clear that mobility on defense is going to be his biggest weakness in the NBA but the rest of his game looks about as promising as one could reasonable expect out of such a late draft pick. Let's hope he keeps it up.

Marcus Denmon
His defense was pretty darn good. His energy was contagious. He played extremely hard. Unfortunately, he has multiple fatal flaws as an NBA prospect. Not only is he undersized for a shooting guard, he gets little elevation on his jumper, and his release is both low and slow. As a point guard, he's not a good enough ballhandler or playmaker. He won't make it in the NBA but he should be able to carve out a professional career.

Hollis Thompson
Admirable hustle. Lacks enough skill to be a legit prospect.

Dexter Pittman
Lost a lot of weight but also lost his ability to finish shots around the rim.

As per the norm, nice post LJ. Thanks.

Joseph continues to use the Summer League to his full advantage. Last season in SL is when we realized that he wasn't a total wasted pick. And this year he continues to grow upon that.

De Colo is clearly trending the wrong way. I doubt he survives the offseason at this point. We just have too many guards already, and hes playing himself out of a job.

Thomas is the guy with the most to gain, and it seems hes channeling his inner Gary Neal. I'm actually hopeful that hes signed as our 15th man and spends a year learning to play SF in Austin.

yep i thought nando played awful once again and joseph and baynes played pretty well

if thompson can play decent perimeter d, he'll def make a team, could be spurs or another team

Hopefully there's a replay tomorrow, but thanks for the recap.

It sounds like Joseph is going to be even better next season. Really admire him for his maturity and willingness to work hard.

Nando, OTOH, I'm becoming more convinced he needs to be dumped from the team. I would rather his spot be saved for a potential SF backup.

I'm still intrigued by Baynes and definitely intrigued by Thomas.

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Originally Posted by timtonymanu

Hopefully there's a replay tomorrow, but thanks for the recap.

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It's on now.

:toast

Joseph - He played OK. At first it seemed like he's gonna have an amazing game, but after the half he kinda couldn't score anymore. I thought today he did a lot of pick n' roles when he wanted to pass the ball but it didn't really work out. Later in the game when the Spurs were losing he also rushed in the paint sometimes and lost the ball, but it's not expected from him to be on a Tony Parker level just yet. On defense he was good like always and his rebounding was also a plus.

De Colo - With one word he sucked. I don't know if it's cause he thinks he's better than anybody else or he's just pissed cause he's got to play the summer league but he isn't helping his chances to play for the Spurs. On offense his shooting was really, really bad. 1-9 from three tells a lot. Pussy finishing around the basket is also not good. He's also a turnover machine and when he gets in the lane you just get that feeling that nothing good is going to happen. Then there is defense. I think the guys he was guarding could do whatever they wanted. He lost his guy a lot of times and his 1 on 1 defense was not that good. So that makes 2 bad games for a player that is supposed to be better than 90% of this summer league. Tonight he reminded me of himself in Europe, a player that couldn't shoot and was not able to handle the ball very well. He needs to put his head out of his ass and start playing much, much better cause it's not that he's going to fall out of the rotation, but he'll fall out off the team.

Baynes - Like I said, give him the ball to shoot it and he'll make some shots outside the paint. His back to the basket game is not that good, but he was playing against a better player in Valanciunas. His first half defense was not that good and Valanciunas could do whatever he wanted and got easy to the basket. In the second half that got better. Rebounding was there but so were the fouls. He also lost his temper at the end of the game what is not good, cause he did that every single game in Europe and he needs to control himself. Overall he played solid. Like for a C+

Thomas - The most consistent player so far. After a good game last night he showed just the same. I like that he isn't trying to do too much, but just plays simple. His outside defense in the first half wasn't that good and his guy could get to the basket by just overpowering Thomas, but for a guy that learns the SF position it was ok. His shooting was once again good and today I think he rebounded better. If he continues like this he'll be backing up Kawhi or at least be on the roster.

Denmon - Well he can shoot the ball. Sucks that he can't make shots. He is really quick but when handling the ball in traffic that won't help him. His energy is there but he's just not good enough.

Thompson - I like how he plays. He does lack some ball handling skills and is not the most athletic guy but at least he's trying. He also won't make the team but could get a contract overseas.

M'Baye - copy paste from first game: ''Athletic but too weak for the PF position''

Pittman - At first I was happy that he can play with his back to the basket, but after I saw him finishing I was disappointed. He did grab 7 rebounds in just 14 minutes and I hope to see more from him in the next game.

Mays, Scott and Richards - The first one played 10 minutes but I had the feeling like he was not really there. Other two just played too little.

Overall I can live with everyone's performance but De Colo's. He really needs to start doing something right cause it will be even hard to trade him if he plays like this.

Nando is the odd man out among the guards, even if we don't assume Neal returns.

I mean:

TP, Manu, Cory will be ball-handlers, with some Belinelli in there.
Green and Belinelli are the small wings/shooters.

Either the Spurs give in to the Blair S&T WAS proposed and send De Colo (and even they have a logjam of guards, with Garrett Temple back)

Some other thoughts:

Joseph has a lot of potential scoring, I think. He's just really raw on his finishing ability. He's deceptively fast, and that allows him to be dangerous on the break. But I'll say again that Pop should try to run Parker sets for Joseph in the regular season. That would help take pressure off Ginobili, and it's a good way to get other players involved. I don't know how Joseph can handle the pick-and-role, but I think he'll be fine with the other parts.

De Colo looks like he's spiraling. I don't think he should stay on the team for everyone's sake.

Thomas definitely looked like he could play with the Spurs' bench. He made a lot of heady decisions. I'd like to see him take a year in Austin to work on his game, but he could probably take the few minutes that Leonard and small-ball leave behind.

Baynes let the officiating get to him. He was good before that, but after his got his T, he was off. The fact that he has a jumper makes him a reliable duel-threat as a screen-setter, but he's still too big and slow to be a power-forward on defense. He might be able to play next to Splitter, though.

Denmon absolutely deserved to remain in the game during the fourth quarter. He just kept making impact plays. I hope he doesn't try to force a camp invite this season. I honestly think his hustle can keep him on an NBA roster for a least a few years.

Richards once again flashed in his short time on the court. His put-back was nice, and he immediately got another rebound after that. His only post-up attempt ended with him trying a turn-around fade-away which missed but would be completely unguardable with his size. He also made a nice play to get back and stop a fast break. He also hedged pretty well on screens, and his defensive stance when defending a small looked really good. However, he just didn't seem to have much of a sense of what to do on the court. He kept posting up when it was clear he wasn't going to get the ball, and that left him out of position for the rebound. His help was late, because he really didn't seem to realize until it was too late that it was his responsibility. Another tease game. Get him to Austin so the team can find out one way or another already.

M'Baye's really athletic, and he looks like an intriguing prospect. But the Spurs have too many guards to even think about him. Same goes for Pittman.

In general, I didn't really understand the rotation. In my opinion, the actual draft picks/roster members should get some priority when it comes to minutes. Especially Denmon and Richards, because they cooperated with the Spurs and played in Europe instead of McClintoning themselves to training camp. They least the team could do is give them the time to show what they can do, especially because they won't be able to play in preseason.

^props chinook................... agree..............................

Fuck David Stern make us play back to back, that's why we lost... And on a serious note, Thomas should be a lock to making the team, he is a player, playing off our leading guys should make good for him and he could contribute roughly immediately... As far as Nando I tell you from the start he is trash, should be called Garbage De Colo, what a waste of money...

Thanks for the grades timvp, and everyone else thanks for your thoughts! I look forward to watching this tomorrow.

DeColo was never very good. He's already in his mid-20s and has a lot of flaws in his game. I never really understood why the Spurs took such an interest in him when anybody could see he wasn't an NBA calibre guard when he was playing in Europe.

What about Ryan Richards!

Baynes received some bad calls too. It happend in the RS also. Valanciunas got more calls than Durant yesterday.
This Thomas guy was perfect IMO.
He didnt force anything, just played his position. His shooting was good, got rebounds, runs the floor faster than I thought, very good, promising.
I also think he could get a few minutes as backup SF.
CoJo...well...he is an NBA playerm, and in these kind of games you can tell that, the differences between an NBA player and a summer league/Dleague player are big.

Spurs will bump up De Colo's minutes..

:lol Kidd K
:lol De Colo getting first crack at backup PG

I agree with pretty much everything. I didn't think Thomas would be as good as he his but looks like he might make the team. Potentially another nice surprise with a late pick. :tu

Pop probably told him power dunking = no minutes. Probably didn't happen but it would explain why Bayens is trying to play soft pussy ball around the basket. :lol

Nice to see CJ's improving play. He is moving up the depth cart and should pass Colo if he hasn't already.

As for Colo, the dude really needs to step it up. Does he not realize that he is competing for a roster spot?

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Originally Posted by Chomag

Pop probably told him power dunking = no minutes. Probably didn't happen but it would explain why Bayens is trying to play pussy ball. :lol

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You gotta be more like Tiago or If I play soft I'll get minutes, look at Tiago.

DeShaun Thomas is a guy who innately knows how to score. I was really impressed we got him that late in the 2nd. I can see him digging out a Jared Dudley type role on some team - a player who isn't gifted athletically but knows spacing, positioning, and how to get things done.

Like everyone else said, Thomas just knows how to score, makes simple moves to get open (that pump fake to draw foul near 3 pt line), and doesn't really force anything. One play that really impressed me last night was when he was in the paint and looked like he was trapped but found space between defenders and got the layup.

Decolo was garbage last night. Would rather have Thomas taking up a roster spot.

I like Thomas. I really do, but I'm not sure if he will turn out to be a legit NBA player. He might just be another Hairston or Anderson.

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Originally Posted by ohmwrecker

I like Thomas. I really do, but I'm not sure if he will turn out to be a legit NBA player. He might just be another Hairston or Anderson.

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Before injury, Anderson was a legit NBA player, imo

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Originally Posted by Juggity

Before injury, Anderson was a legit NBA player, imo

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He showed promise, but it was a really small sample size. Too small to say for sure.

Thank you Timvp! I always look forward to what you say plz keep it up!

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Originally Posted by ohmwrecker

I like Thomas. I really do, but I'm not sure if he will turn out to be a legit NBA player. He might just be another Hairston or Anderson.

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bookmarked for thomas becoming another steal for spurs.....................................

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Originally Posted by Juggity

Before injury, Anderson was a legit NBA player, imo

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word...........................................

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Originally Posted by playblair

bookmarked for thomas becoming another steal for spurs.....................................

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Neat. I would be thrilled if that were to happen.

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Originally Posted by Mr. Body

DeShaun Thomas is a guy who innately knows how to score. I was really impressed we got him that late in the 2nd. I can see him digging out a Jared Dudley type role on some team - a player who isn't gifted athletically but knows spacing, positioning, and how to get things done.

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Great comparison, IMO.

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Originally Posted by Mr. Body

DeShaun Thomas is a guy who innately knows how to score. I was really impressed we got him that late in the 2nd. I can see him digging out a Jared Dudley type role on some team - a player who isn't gifted athletically but knows spacing, positioning, and how to get things done.

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If he can play D like Dudley then he could stick.

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Originally Posted by Texas_Ranger

Baynes - Like I said, give him the ball to shoot it and he'll make some shots outside the paint. His back to the basket game is not that good, but he was playing against a better player in Valanciunas. His first half defense was not that good and Valanciunas could do whatever he wanted and got easy to the basket. In the second half that got better. Rebounding was there but so were the fouls. He also lost his temper at the end of the game what is not good, cause he did that every single game in Europe and he needs to control himself. Overall he played solid. Like for a C+

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I was going to let it go, as it was only one game, but now that you said that he does it all the time, that is not good at all. If he can't control his temperament, then it would be hard to trust him in critical situations and games.

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Originally Posted by monkeypunk

If he can play D like Dudley then he could stick.

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If Dudley could shoot and score like Thomas he would be an above average player..Its way to early to think Thomas will be in an NBA rotation, but one thing is for sure, he can score which is needed night in and night out in the NBA.

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Originally Posted by yavozerb

If Dudley could shoot and score like Thomas he would be an above average player..Its way to early to think Thomas will be in an NBA rotation, but one thing is for sure, he can score which is needed night in and night out in the NBA.

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If you're going to have one skill in the NBA, being a multi-faceted scorer is a pretty great option. Thomas may have quite a few holes in his game, but he definitely has an incredibly polished offensive game. I don't know that he has a complete enough game to readily contribute in the NBA next season, but it would appear that his offensive game is definitely mature enough. I think the assessment that he can be our backup SF next season is probably bringing him along too quickly. He needs a year in Austin to try and convert his game and adjust to guarding on the perimeter. But I'd definitely like the idea of adding him to our 15-man and carrying him through the season. Hes probably capable of stealing some minutes from time to time if we have an injury even now. And he has the potential to be a solid role player for us going forward. And if we can get a decent rotation guy out of the 58th pick then that's a downright coup.

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Originally Posted by Darkwaters

But I'd definitely like the idea of adding him to our 15-man and carrying him through the season. Hes probably capable of stealing some minutes from time to time if we have an injury even now.

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If he shows consistency in the rest of his SL games I hope this is what happens. It would be nice to have another young guy having a solid chance to live up to potential and continue to grow on the team.

I think Thomas's stats also showed he was a good rebounder in college, well actually not so much because he was classified as a PF, but as SF backup he should be able to contribute with rebounds.

Also, he has a pretty stacked wiki page for a rookie. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deshaun_Thomas Shows here that each year in high school he produced a double-double with points/rebounds.

Offensively, I think Thomas has a place on this team, but the real difficulty in playing him minutes in the regular season if signed is his defense. He needs to work on his quickness and strength in the paint. There was a couple of times last night when Acy just bullied him. If he learns how to use his body and play good position defense, he may carve out some minutes on this team. I like what I saw from Joseph but looked like he was forcing too much in the second half and he just needs to learn to relax and take what the defense gives him. Baynes had a decent performance but needs to finish better around the rim. I like that he has a nice touch on his jumper however. Hollis Thompson has some hops but is still very rough. Denmon looked like he can shoot but his choice of shots are what bothered me. DeColo...well, there is not really anything you can say about him, at least positively.

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Originally Posted by Darkwaters

If you're going to have one skill in the NBA, being a multi-faceted scorer is a pretty great option. Thomas may have quite a few holes in his game, but he definitely has an incredibly polished offensive game. I don't know that he has a complete enough game to readily contribute in the NBA next season, but it would appear that his offensive game is definitely mature enough. I think the assessment that he can be our backup SF next season is probably bringing him along too quickly. He needs a year in Austin to try and convert his game and adjust to guarding on the perimeter. But I'd definitely like the idea of adding him to our 15-man and carrying him through the season. Hes probably capable of stealing some minutes from time to time if we have an injury even now. And he has the potential to be a solid role player for us going forward. And if we can get a decent rotation guy out of the 58th pick then that's a downright coup.

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Agree 100%..One other factor which is rarely mentioned about Thomas is that he is only 21 years old. He still has time on his side to round out his game but his jumper and scoring ability is already at an NBA level. Gonna be fun to watch his development.

I was hoping Baynes would be more impressive in the 1st 2 games.

i really hope the keeps roster spot for Thomas.

Noguieria and Muscala will be good tests for Baynes; and Schroder will be pressing Joseph hard.

I think Baynes has played pretty well over the 1st 2 games. He played a pretty damn good NBA center in Valanciunas tough and held his own. Baynes well never be a starter but i think he could see as much as 10-15 minutes a night in the coming season.

At this point here are my thoughts:

De Colo needs to be traded. If that sign and trade thing with the Wizards and Blair ever works out, you gotta figure De Colo would be part of the trade. De Colo is just way too average of an athlete to ever earn the back-up PG position. If he stays, then he's going to be on the end of the bench, because Joseph has clearly established himself as the frontrunner for the back-up PG spot. Pop doesn't want De Colo pouting all season long. My guess is he'll be traded. If he wasn't french, it would have already happened by now.

To me it's down to three players for the last roster spot that's open. The first person is Neal, obviously, if we re-sign him, which I think Pop and RC would prefer to do despite that meaning we would have 8 guards on our roster. But at least in that event I think we would be more desperate to make a trade to get a back-up SF which we don't have. The second is Deshaun Thomas, because, again, if we can't trade for one, we are still in desperate need of a back-up SF and so far he's been playing well. If we can get him open like we can get Kawhi open, then he'll be deadly. And the third is M'Baye. He's by far the best athlete on the summer league and if nothing else could give us energy. He can't shoot outside though, but he does finish around the rim and plays hard on defense.

Denmon is not an NBA player. We need to cut him after this and let him explore other opportunities.

Pittman just sucks. If he's not going to use his body to back people down and score, then he's truly useless.

I like Hollis Thompson. But he's not as good as Thomas or M'Baye. Still, I could see him on an NBA roster...maybe.

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Originally Posted by timvp

DeShaun Thomas
He spent much of his night defending a small forward in Acy but we didn't learn much because Acy can't shoot so he just sagged into the paint.

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Acy is not only not a small forward, he's not even a combo forward; he's strictly a power forward. And though far from a knockdown mid range shooter, I wouldn't go so far as to say he can't shoot.


As for Joseph, I'm not sold yet (and won't be by anything he does in Summer League, preseason or even against run of the mill or worse teams in the regular season), but I must admit, he does look solid and clearly superior to De Colo, though that's not saying much.

Speaking of De Colo, his one supposed strength, play making, vanished sometime around mid season and hasn't been found since. In the absence of providing that without an astronomical turnover percentage, he's not an NBA player. And since he won't be content being inactive (and even if he were, they'd probably be better off freeing up the roster spot), it's clearly time to cut ties.

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Originally Posted by TD 21

Acy is not only not a small forward, he's not even a combo forward; he's strictly a power forward.

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ESPN.com lists him as a small forward. He's clearly an NBA small forward with no perimeter game to speak of (shooting, passing or dribbling) so he is forced to play at power forward in an attempt to hide his deficiencies. And, yeah, he can't shoot.

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Originally Posted by timvp

ESPN.com lists him as a small forward. He's clearly an NBA small forward with no perimeter game to speak of (shooting, passing or dribbling) so he is forced to play at power forward in an attempt to hide his deficiencies. And, yeah, he can't shoot.

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:lol ESPN.com. To give you an idea of how inaccurate they are, they list: Baynes as a PF, Blair as a C, Diaw as a C, Duncan as a PF, McGrady as a SG and Neal as a PG.

Trust me, as someone who's watched him for more than a few minutes in a Summer League game, he's clearly a PF. Think of him as a poor man's Faried, only he can actually make the occasional mid range shot.

I still want to know can CoJo run the pick and roll on offense?

I wanted De Colo to be better. I thought he was better. It may be time for him to move on, especially if he doesn't improve this summer. Someone mentioned a sign and trade with the wizards, but who do they have that the Spurs could get for Blair and DeColo? I say get a draft pick instead of another role player with an attitude.