He got $14.5 million.
:wakeup
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He got $14.5 million.
:wakeup
Ok
Inflation. Hits everyone hard.
That's crazy mane....
:downspin:
I thought I'd see a :wow over a :wakeup, tbh
Can't believe spurs paid him that much
jesus
I hope it's front-loaded. The team will have cap space next summer as well, and not too many of their own free agents to spend it on.
I don't know how anybody can spin this shit... even me who leans toward the Manu homer category, I can't find a reason why he was paid that much. Manu robbed the Spurs, tbh.
Sacrifice people
Can only hope he has a bounce back season if not biggest waste of cash for sure .but if u need a reason rc said it himself Manus per averages r great yoQuote:
Originally Posted by TE
"Significant sacrifice"
Nice...I thought they had short changed him with that 14 mil offer..Quote:
Originally Posted by timvp
obscure stats ftwQuote:
Originally Posted by slick'81
no one other would give him that much... lol Spurs
You don't know that.............Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas_Ranger
Your dumb if u think that..Take a look at this summers contracts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas_Ranger
FO gave him a blank check to sign IMO. IDC what reports say out there. There is no way that our stingy FO would have chosen to overpay Manu out of the blues. Manu opted to get paid for his market value. He didn't do what TP and TD did which is to take a pay cut below the market value. Manu's $3-$4M that he refused to give us a discount on plus Matt Bonner's $3M contract would have allowed the Spurs to make an improvement on the SF or PG position. Perhaps we could have signed Jarrett Jack or AK47 if we would of had all that cap space taken by Manu and Bonner.Quote:
Originally Posted by TE
Manu's play is declining though. Most of the other SG's are either in their prime or on the rise. Sorry but you can't make the case for Manu.Quote:
Originally Posted by yavozerb
ok let me say it the other way. None of the contenders would pay him that much. I am sure Manu would want to play for the Milwaukee Bucks.
Timvp loves to spin up the crowd.
Sorry, if players like Martell Webster, Korver, and Tony Allen can all get contract ranging from 5-6.5 mil a season then Manu could have easily had some equal or greater offers.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGreatYacht
Manu gave us a huge discount in his prime. well earned. besides, nobody twisted the Front officeses arm to pay the man a little more than hes worth.
Too much but I'm not giving up on the guy... think he'll have a good season.
During Manu's heyday, the Spurs benefited from a hometown discount. Manu could have easily signed with some other teams for more money in previous contract years but sacrificed money and stats to stay with the Spurs.
Now people want to throw the Spurs and Manu under the bus for mutually agreeing on a contract that rewards Manu for his many years of loyalty and service.
Why didn't they give him a one year deal? Two years is guaranteed failure... I don't get it...
Worst timing for his contract extension tbh.
Blood sacrifice?Quote:
Originally Posted by slick'81
Who are the other injury prone 36 year old's that got 14.5mil?Quote:
Originally Posted by yavozerb
This gets overstated all the time on this board. Ginobili was a free agent twice, with this off-season being the second time. The first time, there was a rumored offer from Denver which was six years, $8-9 Million a year. Ginobili ended up signing for six years starting at about $6 Million. Why he signed for six years, I have no idea. Even if he were all about sacrifice, he didn't have to sign for that long. But I think he did because that was best offer that was actually extended to him. But whatever.Quote:
Originally Posted by weebo
After he was almost done with that contract, he signed for a max extension in lieu of going to free agency. Before people laud him for that sacrifice, remember he had just come off one of his worse seasons, and there were serious thoughts that the team was going to trade him away or at least let him walk. Washington offered the fifth-overall pick and Arenas for him, which the Spurs thankfully rejected. Then Ginobili blows up and signed his extension, which gave him the security he needed in case he had a bad finish to the year.
Manu could have tried to wait until free agency to try for a max offer. During his prime, he probably could have gotten one. But he also signed hefty deals with the Spurs to forgo that. He's never done anything like Duncan and purposefully took less so that the team could stay together (at least from what's been confirmed). If anything, he was like Parker in that he signed long-term deals at the wrong times. That doesn't make him a money-grubbing selfish player now. But it also didn't make him a saint then.
The goods.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chinook
:tuQuote:
Originally Posted by Chinook
This contract, coming off of the letdown he was to Tim and TP and Pop in the finals, was a bit greedy. But I digress.
Again, Manu sacrificed money, stats, fame, etc. to remain on the team. You can't sit there and say what went on behind closed doors during those negotiations. Maybe the Spurs FO promised to take care of him at the end of his career if he signed with the Spurs for less. However, who really knows....Quote:
Originally Posted by Chinook
All we know now is this...Manu was instrumental in the '05 and '07 championships. You can spin it any way you want but that is fact. The Spurs don't win in '05 and '07 w/o Manu being Manu.
You said yourself...he could have gotten the max from some team because in his prime he was a max player. Now the Spurs are rewarding Manu for his many years of service and loyalty. You guys make it sound like he just signed some outrageous deal that will hamstring the Spurs from signing Lebron next year. SMH
Sickens me how people on here act like they're owed Manu taking a mini MLE or even a minimum deal. Manu has more than earned that contract and I'm glad he's back.
Did you really just posit what went on behind closed doors, then try to tell me not to do that?Quote:
Originally Posted by weebo
As for the rest of the post, I don't even know what you're trying to argue. I've already said if Ginobili didn't lock himself into deals at the wrong time, he'd have made more money. That's not the same thing as taking less to help the team. Only Duncan has been in that position and (twice) decided to take well below his projected market value to keep the team under the tax. He's the only player who had all the leverage in the world and decided not to use it. When Ginobili had the leverage, he got a max extension with every little perk that could be thrown into it.Quote:
All we know now is this...Manu was instrumental in the '05 and '07 championships. You can spin it any way you want but that is fact. The Spurs don't win in '05 and '07 w/o Manu being Manu.
You said yourself...he could have gotten the max from some team because in his prime he was a max player. Now the Spurs are rewarding Manu for his many years of service and loyalty. You guys make it sound like he just signed some outrageous deal that will hamstring the Spurs from signing Lebron next year. SMH
No one is saying Ginobili was worth more than he got paid. He had max-player production for a few years, and I think he would have gotten a max deal if he were a free agent in his prime. But he wasn't, and that was because he signed an eventual $91M/9 deal, which in case you're wondering is almost exactly what Parker has made over the same time frame. That's a hell of a lot of money that he guaranteed himself by staying with the same team. There's no way that that can be interpreted as a bad business decision on his part unless you assume he knew exactly how history was going to unfold. Both he and the team did what they thought was best, and it worked out for both of them. No one got screwed over, and no one was overly generous.
Up to the MLE would have been reasonable, but $7M was too much.
I think he's received fair deals his whole career and that he received another one this season. Most people think he was heavily underpaid and/or overpaid at various points of his career. I don't.Quote:
Originally Posted by baseline bum
No other team would give him more than Spurs this summer,not even close.
Manu rejected an $8M contract from Denver to take $6M from the Spurs like Chinook said... yeah what huge sacrifice .Quote:
Originally Posted by weebo
Without Duncan, we have ZERO championships. TD took one for the team. Please don't compare them.Quote:
All we know now is this...Manu was instrumental in the '05 and '07 championships. You can spin it any way you want but that is fact. The Spurs don't win in '05 and '07 w/o Manu being Manu.
This is why I hate arguing with Manutards. How many championships has loyalty gotten us for the past 6 years?Quote:
You said yourself...he could have gotten the max from some team because in his prime he was a max player. Now the Spurs are rewarding Manu for his many years of service and loyalty. You guys make it sound like he just signed some outrageous deal that will hamstring the Spurs from signing Lebron next year. SMH
Gave us a discount? Being injured and hurt all the time when spurs needed him most is a discount?Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Empty
Manu must be the most CODDLED "max" star that's ever been. He's always played limited minutes even when young. His lack of consistency and flashes of brilliance tease and drive fans crazy at the same time. It's all or nothing for him and recently, as in the past couple years, it's been closer to nothing. His play is worth nowhere close to $14.5m for 2 years - but he's hella popular and didn't do the Spurs any favor with this last contract. For me, with this last playoff performance, Spurs would be forgiven even by the most rabid Manu fans for giving him closer to his real value.
Whatever, the Big Three will all finish together and be done in two years and that's the point. Good for the Spurs to stay together and good for Manu to get his lifetime achievement award.
Crofl, hyperbole much? The fact is SA is a special small market. The best player in the history of the franchise has taken much less than he is worth to give the team a shot a title and is still elite and performing. TP is making way less than market value and improving his game. The only guy that is not improving is also the only one not sacrificing any money for the team. I can understand how that does not sit well with people. I am also happy he is back. They are not mutually exclusive.Quote:
Originally Posted by baseline bum
I doubt he would have taken the vet min I thought the mle is what he would take
IMO he is not above the average player with minutes he can only play and is injury prone
sicken me that he has a history off playing well in the 4 quarter the other teamates get him in that postion and manu is the only player to get credit for the winQuote:
Originally Posted by baseline bum
I agree. No one's talking about vet min - most fans would be happy with around $5+ per year.Quote:
Originally Posted by ducks
I don't begrudge him his reputation for 4th quarter clutch heroics. His not admitting that he played so poorly this playoffs grates on me. His including the team with his poor play is a joke - Duncan, Leonard and Green all performed above expected.Quote:
Originally Posted by ducks
14,5 millions is because he had bad contracts in the past, now that he is done they are giving him big money like they did Finley
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikeanaro
and also what annoys me is that the spurs beat writer said manu was underpaid for manu years
wtf? did spurs pay jeff to post such stupidest to try to satisfy the fans?
how much money has the spurs paid him already before the deal?
denver never even gave him a formal offer according to him last fa
imo he was never going anywhere
Too much for as little as we'll get from him at this stage in his career but the majority of people seem to be okay with this so I won't argue the point..
It's always hard to judge these things, but my thought process is roughly as follows -
Tim took a 50% pay cut after coming off a solid 15.4/9/2 season on very good efficiency for a big man (49.2% from the field), and that's not even considering what he brings to defense. He had one of his best defensive seasons last season in addition to improving his offensive stats, but nobody could've guessed that so we can only really go by his '11-'12 numbers.
Manu had his worst (or maybe 2nd worst) season in the history of his career from efficiency to injuries to you name it. He also took a 50% pay cut.
Tim's 50% cut is the metric I use to judge Manu.
I made the same Chinook argument with regards to Duncan before to. While Tim has taken less money, he is still a top 10 paid player of all time IIRC so it's not like the Spurs didn't take care of him. But when it got to the stage where the Spurs needed more, Duncan (and to a lesser degree Parker) took less and are still performing at a high level consistently. Manu is not.
It's always extremely hilarious when people most likely NOT making more than 100 K/year are bitching about rich men paying, or overpaying, another rich man.
Quote:
Originally Posted by timvp
Gotta sell those jerseys. Manu speaks spanish, that's all that matters to large segment of casual Spurs fans.
There's no basketball reason to make such a commitment to a scrub.
Can you read the comments before you state your opinion? Stop with this "Manu took a 50% pay cut" argument because he didn't . If you read the comments above, you'll note that Manu DID NOT take a pay cut from his market value. If Manu would have taken a 50% pay cut, then he should of resigned for $3.5M/year or $7M/2year and not the bloated $14M/2 year contract that he took. In my very personal opinion, Manu's not even worth $7M/year market value but that's just me.Quote:
Originally Posted by jestersmash
Well, no matter on how much we may agree on what we think Manu's market value is/was, it's a fact he took a 50% pay cut from last year.
Apparently if you think Manu is even slightly overpaid, you're a ungrateful shithead who doesn't recognize anything he has done for the Spurs and you aren't happy to have him back.Quote:
Originally Posted by DPG21920
Yeah but not from the market value. TD is underpaid according to his market value. Based on your argument, then Manu deserved to resign with the Spurs for $28M.Quote:
Originally Posted by DPG21920
Most reasonable argument you've made and I agree.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGreatYacht
Not really, but it's pointless to debate this aspect of things.
LJ...picking up the ant farm and shaking it...and watching the pissed off ants crawl.
LMAO, please get Manu's coc* off your mouth. DPG21920 is one of the most knowledgeable persons on ST. So is Bruno and Chinook.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpursFan86
I think he was mocking people who say you essentially hate Manu if you try to argue his contract is too much.
RC was referencing earlier in Manu's career when he could have gone elsewhere for higher pay. Hopefully everyone gets the memo by nowQuote:
Originally Posted by urunobili
Despite what happened in games 6 and 7 of the finals, I am happy he signed on for another 2 years. I will never forget being at game 5 of the finals last month and all of the fans in the arena chanting MANU.
wow. just wow. as if the basketball gods decided 28 seconds before the buzzer that those fans don't deserve a 5th parade. treating Manu worse than Jefferson after he signed his extension, is the most classless episode of any fan base ever. the most ridiculous part of it is, that those little minds are acting, as if the one or two million they claim he got to much, put a damper on the Spurs future. ridiculous.
he got the money b/c the Spurs believe he is worth the number. it's only a few months ago that every true and every wannabe Spurs fan would wholehearted declare that Manu is the heart of this team. this heart had some cardiac arrhythmia and every other "fan" calls it worthless. remember, you can't live without your heart. neither can a team. there is no price tag on your heart.
Manu made 107 M in his NBA career. gross.
That makes 65 M net?
Plus the endorsements.
I dont' think Nicola AND Dante' grandsons will have a bit of a financial problem.
They should have gotten rid of Manu after the 2007 title. He has done more harm to the team in their title quest with all the injuries and poor play in the playoffs for what they have paid him during all those years.
Sometimes people need a heart transplant.Quote:
Originally Posted by mountainballer
Well if Manu signs at 3M, Spurs would have gotten that famous Euroleague champion Kirilenko, who obviously would have chosen San Antonio over New York, and Holt over his Russian buddy.....Quote:
Originally Posted by mountainballer
What you talking about? Tim Duncan is the heart and soul of this team. Without Tim Duncan, the Spurs have ZERO championships. It is because of Tim Duncan's resurgence these past two years that the Spurs have been as successful as they've been recently such as reaching the WCF in 2012 and the NBA finals in 2013. A 38 year old Tim Duncan, as well as Kawhi, almost carried us to #5 had it not been for coach Pop's decisions, your favorite player's 8 turnovers, and the infamous 28 second rebounds and free throws.Quote:
Originally Posted by mountainballer
Better yet, in 2005.Quote:
Originally Posted by rascal
That foul in G7 of 2006 would have never happened, and Ginobili' 30 points in that game would have been scored by hero Beno Udrih.
Maybe even 40.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGreatYacht
Thank you DPG.Quote:
Originally Posted by DPG21920
What part of "apparently" don't you understand? Was my post really that hard to comprehend? DPG seemed to understand it fine. I was simply pointing out that many people here assume you hate Manu and don't recognize all he has done for this franchise if you even hint at the fact that he's overpaid. I was mocking them. Stop being so defensive.
Yeah my bad. For some reason I thought you were directing your comment at DGP. Sorry. Yeah, I agree with you. People automatically assume that one is a Manu hater if you don't agree with their blind faith in Manu.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpursFan86
So yeah, to all of those that are calling us Manu haters:Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGreatYacht
Well done timvp, well done.
Jesus christ try and put 2 and 2 together next time :lmao. I'm arguing that Manu was overpaid. I brought up Duncan's 50% cut to show that Manu deserved less given that he didn't perform nearly as well as Duncan did.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGreatYacht
Well, inheritance taxes become pretty steep after the first $3M or $5M or so. But yeah, $50M+ net is more than enough to ensure an upper class lifestyle for your progeny forever.Quote:
Originally Posted by temujin
The Spurs haven't won a title going on 7 years now and year in and year out they try with the same team.Quote:
Originally Posted by phxspurfan
Quote:
Originally Posted by jestersmash
Your wording was a little misleading.Quote:
Originally Posted by jestersmash
It's the most stupid thing in the world to want the big 3 to leave at the same time, they didn't arrive at the same time and are not attached at the hip, it's stupid.
Beli is probably gonna be better than tosb Manu this season, they blew their capspace to sell tickets and jerseys...
Did everyone forget that the NBA is a business?
How much money do you think the Spurs make from selling tickets. Full season, sell-out every home game.
Now, how many salaries (players, admin, etc...) can they pay with that?
Most of the money comes from tv deals (ask the Lakers). That is where Manu's value comes in.
So, if you are in charge of a company, will you let a guy who brings money by getting tv stations overseas
interested in showing the games walk?
Let's say they "only" give Manu $5 m/year. And he goes to, say, Clippers. Not only you are losing money, you are
directly helping a competitor to make more money than you do. Because they will think about money, and know
that people are going to follow Manu even if he only plays 5 minutes per game. They will still tune in.
This money is not for what he can do on the basketball court. This is business.
Do you also believe you know more than Holt &co. about business?
Yeah I guess I should've been more clear. I'm using definition #1 when I say "pay cut" to mean a numerical cut in salary from the previous year.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGreatYacht
"Pay cut" as it's being used in this thread can also mean a cut in salary relative to market value.
Why can't championships and business go hand in hand? Manu taking less $$$ and trading Bonner would have yielded a better FA signing such as Jarrett Jack (not that FO was interested in him) or AK47. Manu WAS NOT going anywhere, I mean no way in hell that any contender team would overpay Manu $14M as we did. I think Manu is loyal enough to not leave the Spurs but not loyal enough to give us a discount.Quote:
Originally Posted by AusEM
You ask questions which we will never get answers for. Time to move on.:deadhorseQuote:
Originally Posted by TheGreatYacht
timvp was the one that blew on them ashes. This was bound to happen.Quote:
Originally Posted by yavozerb
Bruce Blitz doesn't have a YouTube for that?Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGreatYacht
Yes, it's just a catastrophe that the Spurs are trying to hang on to all the veterans they can to keep the team competitive as Tim finishes his career. What are they thinking?Quote:
Originally Posted by Baam
ive said the same on here. It would be interesting Ginobili would be perceived if he was a hippie, Anglo looking dude from the US. people would most likely be far more critical of his brainfarts and unreliability. However, him speaking Spanish has also elevated his appeal, which sells more jerseys, so I guess that's a big reason for the overpaying.Quote:
Originally Posted by Capt Bringdown
/ threadQuote:
Originally Posted by Chinook
I realize this is kind of a semantics issue, but you can say that he's received fair deals and still believe that there have been years when it turned out that he was underpaid or overpaid -- which is to say, years where his production per cap figure was an exceptionally good deal, or a not-so-good deal. That's not the same thing as the "he took less than he could have" argument at all, of course.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chinook
I've echoed this sentiment many times but I just get called a hater tbh CoMers are a raibid group and even though I mention numerous times Ginobili is my 2nd favorite player ever and I wanted him back all they can focus is on the fact that I/you/a lot of us think he is overpaid and kinda fucked us this offseason in terms of getting a decent FAQuote:
Originally Posted by DPG21920
to me the stupid things about all this bitching with manu's salary-
A) lets assume manu took the vet min... for what? so the team could throw 8-9 mill at AK? do you people realize that he would play even less than manu being behind leonard, has always been a lesser player than manu(even being 4 years younger), and his skillset doesnt fix the spurs biggest problem in the finals (secondary playmaker)? to spend 10m+ on monta blackhole cant shoot for shit ellis? even for 10 million, name one player who could be the secondary playmaker better than manu... The only possibility is Jack, and while he might be able to fit the reality is he also has large warts to his game (no concept of D as in manu's open game winner, and a tendency to chuck up terrible shots. just go to a gsw forum during the PO, most people wanted to hang him).
B) A lot of people are talking about timmy's sacrifice and manu underperforming while being the highest paid player. When manu was playing with a broken nose in the 2010 playoffs, timmy and tony got their shit pushed in by a pathetic suns team (not the frikin heatles). that year, manu was making less than half of timmy' salary, 4 million less than that faggot RJ and 2 mill less than parker. should manu have lost faith in timmy and tony and the FO then? where were all the people crying about timmy's 22 million salary? (I do remember plenty of people were ready to bury timmy, but I dont recall anyone talking about his salary). 2010-11, manu was UNDOUBTEDLY the best player on this team and he made less than duncan and parker, again almost half of duncan's salary.
C) Manu absolutely sacrificed for this team. first by letting pop use him as a 6th man (only to throw him into the starting lineup everytime shit hit the fan), which is not a small thing. Second, he wasted a lot his prime carrying a bunch of garbage players, like bogans, RMJ, RJ, udoka, bonner, elson, corpse of finley etc etc etc. You really think that a guy like jarret jack would have been able to lead the playoff charge in 09-10 (when manu signed his extension and went on a crazy run to finish the season) with teammates like that? Its very nice that leonard, green, and splitter have come along so nicely, but just a few years back (amd for several years runnning) the spurs had absolute shit outside the big 3, and manu didnt have the luxury of playing most of his minutes with parker and duncan the way they did together.
d) i've seen people go on and on about games 6 and 7 of the finals. look at this:
Tony parker averages games 6 and 7:
14.5 pts 17.5 FGA 1.5 reb 6 ast 1 TO 2.5 stl .257 FG
39.6 minutes
Manu ginobili averages games 6 and 7:
13.5 pts 8.5 FGA 3.5 reb 4 ast 6 TO .5 stl .471FG
34.9 minutes
yes, manu's TO were an issue. but so was Parkers' shooting. who had more expectation going in, manu or parker? who was the team's leader, main scorer, and who had been reduced for the past two years to being an assist man for 20 minutes a night?
I'm willing to bet anyone that parker in 5 years can't play a season with a PER of 19/16.5 rs/po the way manu just did. and dont compare with duncan, first he's a top 10 player all time and second you cant compare his style of play with penetrating guards like tony and manu.
I'm disappointed with manu's PO just like everyone else, but there is no way you can rationally justify blaming manu's struggles for the finals loss and shrug parker's struggles away. outside of a few clutch shots parker was pretty terrible and a shadow of the player he was for the bulk of the season. all that said credit the heat, and applaud the fact we were able to take them to the final minutes of game 7 with an aging big 3 and some kids when most didnt even expect us to reach the WCF.
tp had a sprain hamspring
manu was suppose to be able to be the other creator
manu had sprained hammys all season, and is in the twilight of his career not his god damn prime. if parker was so beat up he could have passed the ball more instead of getting stuffed 7 times in the series.
manu's TO numbers would have looked a lot better if he forced bad shots instead of trying to set other people up for open shots.
manu's to + blocked attempts= 23
timmy's to + blocked attempts= 23
tony's to + blocked attempts = 22
At least this year when Manu's dribbling a football and throwing balloon passes I won't be thinking that the teams' highest paid player is a hack.