Manu didn't get $14 million from the Spurs...

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Originally Posted by mountainballer

... it's only a few months ago that every true and every wannabe Spurs fan would wholehearted declare that Manu is the heart of this team. this heart had some cardiac arrhythmia and every other "fan" calls it worthless. remember, you can't live without your heart. neither can a team. there is no price tag on your heart.

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What you talking about? Tim Duncan is the heart and soul of this team. Without Tim Duncan, the Spurs have ZERO championships. It is because of Tim Duncan's resurgence these past two years that the Spurs have been as successful as they've been recently such as reaching the WCF in 2012 and the NBA finals in 2013. A 38 year old Tim Duncan, as well as Kawhi, almost carried us to #5 had it not been for coach Pop's decisions, your favorite player's 8 turnovers, and the infamous 28 second rebounds and free throws.

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Originally Posted by rascal

They should have gotten rid of Manu after the 2007 title. He has done more harm to the team in their title quest with all the injuries and poor play in the playoffs for what they have paid him during all those years.

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Better yet, in 2005.

That foul in G7 of 2006 would have never happened, and Ginobili' 30 points in that game would have been scored by hero Beno Udrih.
Maybe even 40.

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Originally Posted by TheGreatYacht

LMAO, please get Manu's coc* off your mouth. DPG21920 is one of the most knowledgeable persons on ST. So is Bruno and Chinook.

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Originally Posted by DPG21920

I think he was mocking people who say you essentially hate Manu if you try to argue his contract is too much.

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Thank you DPG.

What part of "apparently" don't you understand? Was my post really that hard to comprehend? DPG seemed to understand it fine. I was simply pointing out that many people here assume you hate Manu and don't recognize all he has done for this franchise if you even hint at the fact that he's overpaid. I was mocking them. Stop being so defensive.

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Originally Posted by SpursFan86

Thank you DPG.

What part of "apparently" don't you understand? Was my post really that hard to comprehend? DPG seemed to understand it fine. I was simply pointing out that many people here assume you hate Manu and don't recognize all he has done for this franchise if you even hint at the fact that he's overpaid. I was mocking them. Stop being so defensive.

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Yeah my bad. For some reason I thought you were directing your comment at DGP. Sorry. Yeah, I agree with you. People automatically assume that one is a Manu hater if you don't agree with their blind faith in Manu.

So yeah, to all of those that are calling us Manu haters:

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Originally Posted by TheGreatYacht

LMAO, please get Manu's coc* off your mouth. DPG21920 is one of the most knowledgeable persons on ST. So is Bruno and Chinook.

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Well done timvp, well done.

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Originally Posted by TheGreatYacht

Can you read the comments before you state your opinion? Stop with this "Manu took a 50% pay cut" argument because he didn't . If you read the comments above, you'll note that Manu DID NOT take a pay cut from his market value. If Manu would have taken a 50% pay cut, then he should of resigned for $3.5M/year or $7M/2year and not the bloated $14M/2 year contract that he took. In my very personal opinion, Manu's not even worth $7M/year market value but that's just me.

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Jesus christ try and put 2 and 2 together next time :lmao. I'm arguing that Manu was overpaid. I brought up Duncan's 50% cut to show that Manu deserved less given that he didn't perform nearly as well as Duncan did.

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Originally Posted by temujin

Manu made 107 M in his NBA career. gross.
That makes 65 M net?
Plus the endorsements.

I dont' think Nicola AND Dante' grandsons will have a bit of a financial problem.

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Well, inheritance taxes become pretty steep after the first $3M or $5M or so. But yeah, $50M+ net is more than enough to ensure an upper class lifestyle for your progeny forever.

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Originally Posted by phxspurfan

Whatever, the Big Three will all finish together and be done in two years and that's the point. Good for the Spurs to stay together and good for Manu to get his lifetime achievement award.

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The Spurs haven't won a title going on 7 years now and year in and year out they try with the same team.

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Originally Posted by jestersmash

Jesus christ try and put 2 and 2 together next time :lmao. I'm arguing that Manu was overpaid. I brought up Duncan's 50% cut to show that Manu deserved less given that he didn't perform nearly as well as Duncan did.

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Originally Posted by jestersmash

It's always hard to judge these things, but my thought process is roughly as follows -

Tim took a 50% pay cut after coming off a solid 15.4/9/2 season on very good efficiency for a big man (49.2% from the field), and that's not even considering what he brings to defense. He had one of his best defensive seasons last season in addition to improving his offensive stats, but nobody could've guessed that so we can only really go by his '11-'12 numbers.

Manu had his worst (or maybe 2nd worst) season in the history of his career from efficiency to injuries to you name it. He also took a 50% pay cut.

Tim's 50% cut is the metric I use to judge Manu.

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Your wording was a little misleading.

It's the most stupid thing in the world to want the big 3 to leave at the same time, they didn't arrive at the same time and are not attached at the hip, it's stupid.

Beli is probably gonna be better than tosb Manu this season, they blew their capspace to sell tickets and jerseys...

Did everyone forget that the NBA is a business?
How much money do you think the Spurs make from selling tickets. Full season, sell-out every home game.
Now, how many salaries (players, admin, etc...) can they pay with that?
Most of the money comes from tv deals (ask the Lakers). That is where Manu's value comes in.
So, if you are in charge of a company, will you let a guy who brings money by getting tv stations overseas
interested in showing the games walk?
Let's say they "only" give Manu $5 m/year. And he goes to, say, Clippers. Not only you are losing money, you are
directly helping a competitor to make more money than you do. Because they will think about money, and know
that people are going to follow Manu even if he only plays 5 minutes per game. They will still tune in.
This money is not for what he can do on the basketball court. This is business.
Do you also believe you know more than Holt &co. about business?

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Originally Posted by TheGreatYacht

Your wording was a little misleading.

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Yeah I guess I should've been more clear. I'm using definition #1 when I say "pay cut" to mean a numerical cut in salary from the previous year.

"Pay cut" as it's being used in this thread can also mean a cut in salary relative to market value.

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Originally Posted by AusEM

Did everyone forget that the NBA is a business?
How much money do you think the Spurs make from selling tickets. Full season, sell-out every home game.
Now, how many salaries (players, admin, etc...) can they pay with that?
Most of the money comes from tv deals (ask the Lakers). That is where Manu's value comes in.
So, if you are in charge of a company, will you let a guy who brings money by getting tv stations overseas
interested in showing the games walk?
Let's say they "only" give Manu $5 m/year. And he goes to, say, Clippers. Not only you are losing money, you are
directly helping a competitor to make more money than you do. Because they will think about money, and know
that people are going to follow Manu even if he only plays 5 minutes per game. They will still tune in.
This money is not for what he can do on the basketball court. This is business.
Do you also believe you know more than Holt &co. about business?

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Why can't championships and business go hand in hand? Manu taking less $$$ and trading Bonner would have yielded a better FA signing such as Jarrett Jack (not that FO was interested in him) or AK47. Manu WAS NOT going anywhere, I mean no way in hell that any contender team would overpay Manu $14M as we did. I think Manu is loyal enough to not leave the Spurs but not loyal enough to give us a discount.

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Originally Posted by TheGreatYacht

Why can't championships and business go hand in hand? Manu taking less $$$ and trading Bonner would have yielded a better FA signing such as Jarrett Jack (not that FO was interested in him) or AK47. Manu WAS NOT going anywhere, I mean no way in hell that any contender team would overpay Manu $14M as we did. I think Manu is loyal enough to not leave the Spurs but not loyal enough to give us a discount.

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You ask questions which we will never get answers for. Time to move on.:deadhorse

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Originally Posted by yavozerb

You ask questions which we will never get answers for. Time to move on.:deadhorse

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timvp was the one that blew on them ashes. This was bound to happen.

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Originally Posted by TheGreatYacht

Why can't championships and business go hand in hand? Manu taking less $$$ and trading Bonner would have yielded a better FA signing such as Jarrett Jack (not that FO was interested in him) or AK47. Manu WAS NOT going anywhere, I mean no way in hell that any contender team would overpay Manu $14M as we did. I think Manu is loyal enough to not leave the Spurs but not loyal enough to give us a discount.

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Bruce Blitz doesn't have a YouTube for that?

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Originally Posted by Baam

It's the most stupid thing in the world to want the big 3 to leave at the same time, they didn't arrive at the same time and are not attached at the hip, it's stupid.

Beli is probably gonna be better than tosb Manu this season, they blew their capspace to sell tickets and jerseys...

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Yes, it's just a catastrophe that the Spurs are trying to hang on to all the veterans they can to keep the team competitive as Tim finishes his career. What are they thinking?

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Originally Posted by Capt Bringdown

Gotta sell those jerseys. Manu speaks spanish, that's all that matters to large segment of casual Spurs fans.
There's no basketball reason to make such a commitment to a scrub.

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ive said the same on here. It would be interesting Ginobili would be perceived if he was a hippie, Anglo looking dude from the US. people would most likely be far more critical of his brainfarts and unreliability. However, him speaking Spanish has also elevated his appeal, which sells more jerseys, so I guess that's a big reason for the overpaying.

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Originally Posted by Chinook

This gets overstated all the time on this board. Ginobili was a free agent twice, with this off-season being the second time. The first time, there was a rumored offer from Denver which was six years, $8-9 Million a year. Ginobili ended up signing for six years starting at about $6 Million. Why he signed for six years, I have no idea. Even if he were all about sacrifice, he didn't have to sign for that long. But I think he did because that was best offer that was actually extended to him. But whatever.

After he was almost done with that contract, he signed for a max extension in lieu of going to free agency. Before people laud him for that sacrifice, remember he had just come off one of his worse seasons, and there were serious thoughts that the team was going to trade him away or at least let him walk. Washington offered the fifth-overall pick and Arenas for him, which the Spurs thankfully rejected. Then Ginobili blows up and signed his extension, which gave him the security he needed in case he had a bad finish to the year.

Manu could have tried to wait until free agency to try for a max offer. During his prime, he probably could have gotten one. But he also signed hefty deals with the Spurs to forgo that. He's never done anything like Duncan and purposefully took less so that the team could stay together (at least from what's been confirmed). If anything, he was like Parker in that he signed long-term deals at the wrong times. That doesn't make him a money-grubbing selfish player now. But it also didn't make him a saint then.

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/ thread

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Originally Posted by Chinook

I think he's received fair deals his whole career and that he received another one this season. Most people think he was heavily underpaid and/or overpaid at various points of his career. I don't.

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I realize this is kind of a semantics issue, but you can say that he's received fair deals and still believe that there have been years when it turned out that he was underpaid or overpaid -- which is to say, years where his production per cap figure was an exceptionally good deal, or a not-so-good deal. That's not the same thing as the "he took less than he could have" argument at all, of course.

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Originally Posted by DPG21920

Crofl, hyperbole much? The fact is SA is a special small market. The best player in the history of the franchise has taken much less than he is worth to give the team a shot a title and is still elite and performing. TP is making way less than market value and improving his game. The only guy that is not improving is also the only one not sacrificing any money for the team. I can understand how that does not sit well with people. I am also happy he is back. They are not mutually exclusive.

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I've echoed this sentiment many times but I just get called a hater tbh CoMers are a raibid group and even though I mention numerous times Ginobili is my 2nd favorite player ever and I wanted him back all they can focus is on the fact that I/you/a lot of us think he is overpaid and kinda fucked us this offseason in terms of getting a decent FA

to me the stupid things about all this bitching with manu's salary-

A) lets assume manu took the vet min... for what? so the team could throw 8-9 mill at AK? do you people realize that he would play even less than manu being behind leonard, has always been a lesser player than manu(even being 4 years younger), and his skillset doesnt fix the spurs biggest problem in the finals (secondary playmaker)? to spend 10m+ on monta blackhole cant shoot for shit ellis? even for 10 million, name one player who could be the secondary playmaker better than manu... The only possibility is Jack, and while he might be able to fit the reality is he also has large warts to his game (no concept of D as in manu's open game winner, and a tendency to chuck up terrible shots. just go to a gsw forum during the PO, most people wanted to hang him).

B) A lot of people are talking about timmy's sacrifice and manu underperforming while being the highest paid player. When manu was playing with a broken nose in the 2010 playoffs, timmy and tony got their shit pushed in by a pathetic suns team (not the frikin heatles). that year, manu was making less than half of timmy' salary, 4 million less than that faggot RJ and 2 mill less than parker. should manu have lost faith in timmy and tony and the FO then? where were all the people crying about timmy's 22 million salary? (I do remember plenty of people were ready to bury timmy, but I dont recall anyone talking about his salary). 2010-11, manu was UNDOUBTEDLY the best player on this team and he made less than duncan and parker, again almost half of duncan's salary.


C) Manu absolutely sacrificed for this team. first by letting pop use him as a 6th man (only to throw him into the starting lineup everytime shit hit the fan), which is not a small thing. Second, he wasted a lot his prime carrying a bunch of garbage players, like bogans, RMJ, RJ, udoka, bonner, elson, corpse of finley etc etc etc. You really think that a guy like jarret jack would have been able to lead the playoff charge in 09-10 (when manu signed his extension and went on a crazy run to finish the season) with teammates like that? Its very nice that leonard, green, and splitter have come along so nicely, but just a few years back (amd for several years runnning) the spurs had absolute shit outside the big 3, and manu didnt have the luxury of playing most of his minutes with parker and duncan the way they did together.

d) i've seen people go on and on about games 6 and 7 of the finals. look at this:
Tony parker averages games 6 and 7:
14.5 pts 17.5 FGA 1.5 reb 6 ast 1 TO 2.5 stl .257 FG
39.6 minutes
Manu ginobili averages games 6 and 7:
13.5 pts 8.5 FGA 3.5 reb 4 ast 6 TO .5 stl .471FG
34.9 minutes

yes, manu's TO were an issue. but so was Parkers' shooting. who had more expectation going in, manu or parker? who was the team's leader, main scorer, and who had been reduced for the past two years to being an assist man for 20 minutes a night?

I'm willing to bet anyone that parker in 5 years can't play a season with a PER of 19/16.5 rs/po the way manu just did. and dont compare with duncan, first he's a top 10 player all time and second you cant compare his style of play with penetrating guards like tony and manu.

I'm disappointed with manu's PO just like everyone else, but there is no way you can rationally justify blaming manu's struggles for the finals loss and shrug parker's struggles away. outside of a few clutch shots parker was pretty terrible and a shadow of the player he was for the bulk of the season. all that said credit the heat, and applaud the fact we were able to take them to the final minutes of game 7 with an aging big 3 and some kids when most didnt even expect us to reach the WCF.

tp had a sprain hamspring
manu was suppose to be able to be the other creator

manu had sprained hammys all season, and is in the twilight of his career not his god damn prime. if parker was so beat up he could have passed the ball more instead of getting stuffed 7 times in the series.

manu's TO numbers would have looked a lot better if he forced bad shots instead of trying to set other people up for open shots.

manu's to + blocked attempts= 23
timmy's to + blocked attempts= 23
tony's to + blocked attempts = 22

At least this year when Manu's dribbling a football and throwing balloon passes I won't be thinking that the teams' highest paid player is a hack.