Manu didn't get $14 million from the Spurs...

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Originally Posted by ElNono

Well, it isn't irrelevant when we're looking at a contract that was just signed, and looking at where that value might come from.

You might not agree with the Spurs handing that contract to Manu, and that's fine. I particularly don't think the Spurs knee-jerk over a particular series or playoff run, and rather take the long view. Much like when Green couldn't hit anything in the WCF a season ago, and yet they handed him a contract right afterwards.

Personally, I like Ellis, but I don't think he would work in what the Spurs need from that position. They need a distributor, a guy that can play the pick and roll with Tiago and that can "run" the offense, not "be" the offense.

Ideally, I would've preferred to keep Manu and bring another skilled player that can create his own shot and command some attention in the second unit. Belinelli might be that guy, but obviously the jury is still out on that.

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If we even saw 70% of reg. season Manu in the playoffs, the Spurs would be champs, and this wouldn't even be a thread.

But in the latter rounds of the playoffs and the finals, when you meet elite defensive teams, Manu becomes MUCH easier to figure out, which is why Miami picked off every cross court Manu pass, which is why the Spurs lost.

Which is why I'd roll the dice on Ellis, even though he isn't half the distributor Manu is, because Manu sucks now against elite defensive teams.

And there are only elite defensive teams in the finals, not the Golden State Warriors.

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Originally Posted by poeticism707

If we even saw 70% of reg. season Manu in the playoffs, the Spurs would be champs, and this wouldn't even be a thread.

But in the latter rounds of the playoffs and the finals, when you meet elite defensive teams, Manu becomes MUCH easier to figure out, which is why Miami picked off every cross court Manu pass, which is why the Spurs lost.

Which is why I'd roll the dice on Ellis, even though he isn't half the distributor Manu is, because Manu sucks now against elite defensive teams.

And there are only elite defensive teams in the finals, not the Golden State Warriors.

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Well, I disagree that's the sole reason why the Spurs lost. I thought, errors and all, they were good enough to win it all. One bounce or rebound goes our way and this wouldn't even be a thread either.

Again, I like Monta, but I think the biggest issue the Spurs have with that second unit is too many players that don't command enough attention and can't create their own shot (Tiago, Bonner, Blair, Neal, CoJo, etc etc). Manu himself can be up and down on that aspect at this point in his career, so it becomes easier to plan for. Something I brought up during the regular season was the over reliance on offense on the pick and roll, and frankly, that second unit is pretty much all it runs due to the personnel we had. The departures of Blair, and perhaps Neal, and the addition of Pendergraph and Belli (both of which seem to have a mid-range game) will likely change the looks of some of that, and I think it's no coincidence the Spurs went looking for that skillset.

I don't disagree Monta can be useful when you need to rely on heavy ISO situations, but I think what the Spurs would prefer (and this is just my opinion) is a way to make most of the players on that second unit be productive on the offensive end. Something that didn't necessarily happen even during the regular season.

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Originally Posted by ElNono

Well, I disagree that's the sole reason why the Spurs lost. I thought, errors and all, they were good enough to win it all. One bounce or rebound goes our way and this wouldn't even be a thread either.

Again, I like Monta, but I think the biggest issue the Spurs have with that second unit is too many players that don't command enough attention and can't create their own shot (Tiago, Bonner, Blair, Neal, CoJo, etc etc). Manu himself can be up and down on that aspect at this point in his career, so it becomes easier to plan for. Something I brought up during the regular season was the over reliance on offense on the pick and roll, and frankly, that second unit is pretty much all it runs due to the personnel we had. The departures of Blair, and perhaps Neal, and the addition of Pendergraph and Belli (both of which seem to have a mid-range game) will likely change the looks of some of that, and I think it's no coincidence the Spurs went looking for that skillset.

I don't disagree Monta can be useful when you need to rely on heavy ISO situations, but I think what the Spurs would prefer (and this is just my opinion) is a way to make most of the players on that second unit be productive on the offensive end. Something that didn't necessarily happen even during the regular season.

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I actually though isoball worked pretty well in game 5. I think we could have used it more in games 6 and 7. Don't forget Parker helped us take the 5pt lead late in game 6 when he got a rare chance to go against Chalmers. We should have used every opportunity to attack Chalmers, Miller, and Allen defensively. We didn't let the Heat pay enough for playing bad defenders.

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Originally Posted by therealtruth

I actually though isoball worked pretty well in game 5. I think we could have used it more in games 6 and 7. Don't forget Parker helped us take the 5pt lead late in game 6 when he got a rare chance to go against Chalmers. We should have used every opportunity to attack Chalmers, Miller, and Allen defensively. We didn't let the Heat pay enough for playing bad defenders.

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I understand what you're saying, but I think it's erroneous to circumscribe the analysis to just the Finals. That's not to say you don't take certain lessons from it, but IMO the Spurs feel pretty good about the formula that got them there, and personally that's the main reason why I expected them to be fairly conservative in the FA market. The Spurs already have talent to expand ISO situations (potentially Kawhi), but for the most part they still have a plethora of players that will live off ball movement (Tiago, Bonner, Diaw, Green, etc), so while I expect some mad scientist experiments from Pop as usual, I think the onus will be again on moving the ball and creating opportunities for everybody.

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Originally Posted by ElNono

I understand what you're saying, but I think it's erroneous to circumscribe the analysis to just the Finals. That's not to say you don't take certain lessons from it, but IMO the Spurs feel pretty good about the formula that got them there, and personally that's the main reason why I expected them to be fairly conservative in the FA market. The Spurs already have talent to expand ISO situations (potentially Kawhi), but for the most part they still have a plethora of players that will live off ball movement (Tiago, Bonner, Diaw, Green, etc), so while I expect some mad scientist experiments from Pop as usual, I think the onus will be again on moving the ball and creating opportunities for everybody.

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Like you're saying you can keep the formula but you have to be able to make the ingame adjustments. You can't wait till you lose the game before you make the adjustments. It may be too late by then. Pop's in game adjustment ability hasn't been all that great. It seems he goes into every game with a set game plan and doesn't waver.

Yeah besides "moving the ball" only really works when everyone is playing off Parker like we saw so basically we're in an even more precarious situation with a one year older TP and a 39 years old as the second option...

The only improvement would be Pop realizing that Manu is not the third banana anymore and actually start running plays for Kawhi.

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Originally Posted by Baam

Yeah besides "moving the ball" only really works when everyone is playing off Parker like we saw so basically we're in an even more precarious situation with a one year older TP and a 39 years old as the second option...

The only improvement would be Pop realizing that Manu is not the third banana anymore and actually start running plays for Kawhi.

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Will Pop trust Kawhi more than Manu considering how stubborn Pop can be? Let's hope so.

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Originally Posted by TheGreatYacht

Will Pop trust Kawhi more than Manu considering how stubborn Pop can be? Let's hope so.

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I'm extremely skeptical about that as well, but if they don't Kawhi is leaving as soon as he can and Pop and Manu will have destroyed the Spurs for the next 10 years as well as being the primary culprits of two epic chokes.