We should have signed Monte over Manu

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Originally Posted by DAF86

Mavs played Manu the same way they played Tony yet for most of the series, young, in-prime, stud Tony shitted the bed big time, tbh. :lol

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Why are you bringing Parker on that conversation ? dear god you are restless... I'm giving props to Manu who had a better serie than Parker overall. I just disagree on the way you see Ellis, Ellis messed up with Spurs Defense all serie.

Mavs plan was to break ball movement and let the big 3 beat them one on one, I believe Pop wanted to find to maintain ball movement despite of that which is part of our struggle along with Parker running out of gas in the second halfs and shitting the bed like you say. Game 7 you could see strategy changed, it was much more you take what they are giving you. It ended up pretty well for the Spurs.

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Originally Posted by DAF86

Brazil and me have years doing this, we know what we're doing. :lol

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:lol

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Originally Posted by Brazil

Why are you bringing Parker on that conversation ? dear god you are restless... I'm giving props to Manu who had a better serie than Parker overall. I just disagree on the way you see Ellis, Ellis messed up with Spurs Defense all serie.

Mavs plan was to break ball movement and let the big 3 beat them one on one, I believe Pop wanted to find to maintain ball movement despite of that which is part of our struggle along with Parker running out of gas in the second halfs and shitting the bed like you say. Game 7 you could see strategy changed, it was much more you take what they are giving you. It ended up pretty well for the Spurs.

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The Spurs did a shitty job on Ellis, if they would have just gone under the screen on his pick and rolls Ellis would have been even shittier than he was.

You know you are a shitty player when you shoot 40% from the field and people think you did well.

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Originally Posted by Chinook

The Spurs didn't focus their D to stop Ellis at all. It took them until Game Five to even hedge aggressively.

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Monta is the player who received the more different looks defensively, Pop put his best defenders on him (Leonard and Green), everybody on the team tried: Manu, Mills, Leonard, Green... There was no system to specifically counter him but don't act like Monta has not been a freaking headache for Spurs D.

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Originally Posted by DAF86

The Spurs did a shitty job on Ellis, if they would have just gone under the screen on his pick and rolls Ellis would have been even shittier than he was.

You know you are a shitty player when you shoot 40% from the field and people think you did well.

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go under the screen, put Green on him all the time... name it

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Originally Posted by Brazil

Monta is the player who received the more different looks defensively, Pop put his best defenders on him (Leonard and Green), everybody on the team tried: Manu, Mills, Leonard, Green... There was no system to specifically counter him but don't act like Monta has not been a freaking headache for Spurs D.

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I'd say Manu probably played Ellis more than anyone else. Pop constantly allowed Green and Leonard to guard Carter or even Harris. Stopping Ellis had little to do with who was actually in front of him and more to do with which big was defending the PnR. Yes, Green was most effective on Ellis, but so long as Splitter hedged well, Ellis was neutralized. That's not to say that Monta didn't make the Spurs change their game plan. Pop wanted to let him shoot to start the series, but because he was on fire, Pop had to start hedging. But he hedged against every Mav after that. He didn't do anything special for Ellis.

This was by far the best Ellis has ever played against the Spurs and Pop still considered stopping Carter the bigger priority. Since Green's been starting, Ellis hasn't been a threat to SA at all. Had Pop not inexplicably pulled Danny off him in Game Six, the Spurs would have won easily.

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Originally Posted by Chinook

Boy, you really were keen to move on from Dallas, weren't you?

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absolutely... That series had tough freaking luck written all over it... Shawn Marion and Devin Harris raining contested 3s, Vince Carter looking like prime VC and that scrub Calderon hitting everything from everywhere...

Mills and Beli couldn't hit the side of a barn. You gotta be good, but sometimes you also have to be a bit lucky, and I thought we couldn't catch a break that series.

I thought we got better as the series wore on, but hopefully we also catch a break or two going forward.

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Originally Posted by DAF86

You're not saved son.

http://img607.imageshack.us/img607/5...245f4ddd88.gif

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:lol son, Monta definitely has more hops and he can still penetrate at will. He's only 28 years old. That IMO makes him a more versatile player at this stage of his career. There's no shame in saying that.

What always slowed Monta down is his terrible basketball decisions, which is actually what keeps Manu being great even at 37 (and even if he has some brainfarts here and there).

Heck, Monta almost pulls a Manu 6 this series in Game 6.

I do think though, that playing for a coach like Rick can change Monta's career enough to actually make him a smarter player. That's all he really needs. Otherwise, Monta has it all...

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Originally Posted by Chinook

I'd say Manu probably played Ellis more than anyone else. Pop constantly allowed Green and Leonard to guard Carter or even Harris. Stopping Ellis had little to do with who was actually in front of him and more to do with which big was defending the PnR.

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:lol exactly what I've been saying all series. If you look how he attacked, the guy on him mattered only so far as to contest any jumpers. We put Gino, Danny and Kawhi on him, and it didn't matter for penetration. He did that through hands-off and screens.

Brazil is good people, and has extensive knowledge of caipirinha, but he's a frenchie and a brazilian at heart, so there's some not so subtle trolling going on there... :lol

But don't worry, now comes "We should've signed Mo Williams over Manu", the sequel... :lol

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Originally Posted by ElNono

:lol son, Monta definitely has more hops and he can still penetrate at will. He's only 28 years old. That IMO makes him a more versatile player at this stage of his career. There's no shame in saying that.

What always slowed Monta down is his terrible basketball decisions, which is actually what keeps Manu being great even at 37 (and even if he has some brainfarts here and there).

Heck, Monta almost pulls a Manu 6 this series in Game 6.

I do think though, that playing for a coach like Rick can change Monta's career enough to actually make him a smarter player. That's all he really needs. Otherwise, Monta has it all...

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Everybody sucked Monta's balls this season and this series, yet he shot 42% and 40% respectively, and his all around numbers are pretty mediocre for all the minutes he gets. He's a mediocre player with a style of play that doesn't relate to winning basketball, Manu is and will forever be the better basketball player.

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Originally Posted by Chinook

I'd say Manu probably played Ellis more than anyone else. Pop constantly allowed Green and Leonard to guard Carter or even Harris. Stopping Ellis had little to do with who was actually in front of him and more to do with which big was defending the PnR. Yes, Green was most effective on Ellis, but so long as Splitter hedged well, Ellis was neutralized. That's not to say that Monta didn't make the Spurs change their game plan. Pop wanted to let him shoot to start the series, but because he was on fire, Pop had to start hedging. But he hedged against every Mav after that. He didn't do anything special for Ellis.

This was by far the best Ellis has ever played against the Spurs and Pop still considered stopping Carter the bigger priority. Since Green's been starting, Ellis hasn't been a threat to SA at all. Had Pop not inexplicably pulled Danny off him in Game Six, the Spurs would have won easily.

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Manu on Ellis was a fucking bad idea, Ellis was feasting on him (did not check the stats on dat one so I maybe wrong).

I respectfully disagree on the "Pop still considered stopping Carter the bigger priority", his interview was quite relevant when he said I had to remind my guys who is Vince Carter. If Carter was a priority for the players that wouldn't be needed.

I agree tho on your last part, I don't understand why Pop did not use Green 70% of the time on him... quite weird.

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Originally Posted by ElNono

:lol exactly what I've been saying all series. If you look how he attacked, the guy on him mattered only so far as to contest any jumpers. We put Gino, Danny and Kawhi on him, and it didn't matter for penetration. He did that through hands-off and screens.

Brazil is good people, and has extensive knowledge of caipirinha, but he's a frenchie and a brazilian at heart, so there's some not so subtle trolling going on there... :lol

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:lol in no time, you gonna tell me that Manu was as effective guarding Ellis as Green

that does not make any sense

I don't like Manu guarding quick SGs, he does a much better job on SFs nowadays

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Originally Posted by DAF86

Everybody sucked Monta's balls this season and this series, yet he shot 42% and 40% respectively, and his all around numbers are pretty mediocre for all the minutes he gets. He's a mediocre player with a style of play that doesn't relate to winning basketball, Manu is and will forever be the better basketball player.

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It's his first season in Dallas, and I'd like to see how he evolves under Rick. I thought he played better than he has in the past...

Monta has the advantage that he's playing at a time where any player that barrels into the paint gets the whistle. Kinda like Westbrook. They're valuable players.

Manu is at a different stage in his career. He's the setup guy, he is reliant on Tiago, Tim or the shooters to finish off what he creates. For the Spurs right now, I would argue that has more value.

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Originally Posted by Brazil

:lol in no time, you gonna tell me that Manu was as effective guarding Ellis as Green

that does not make any sense

I don't like Manu guarding quick SGs, he does a much better job on SFs nowadays

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You've been saying that all series, even when I pointed out during the game that Kawhi and Green were getting torched too (and I knew you were reading :lol)

You can run with that schtick, that's fine. Sure, I would've preferred Manu to guard Calderon all series, but the reality is that he did a great job.

Green is the more dynamic defender, no doubt, if he wouldn't be compared to 37 year old manu, then he basically couldn't see the court. Danny though, has other problems. His penchant for biting on pump fakes or fouling 3 point shooters is something he's going to need to work on.

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Originally Posted by Skull-1

Don't expect logic to matter.

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Originally Posted by Skull-1

I called it weeks ago. We are gonna' repeat history and get bounced by the #8 seed.

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:lol



:lmao

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Originally Posted by Brazil

Manu on Ellis was a fucking bad idea, Ellis was feasting on him (did not check the stats on dat one so I maybe wrong).

I respectfully disagree on the "Pop still considered stopping Carter the bigger priority", his interview was quite relevant when he said I had to remind my guys who is Vince Carter. If Carter was a priority for the players that wouldn't be needed.

I agree tho on your last part, I don't understand why Pop did not use Green 70% of the time on him... quite weird.

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I didn't chart the numbers yet, and I don't know if I will because of the short turn-around between series, but I'm pretty sure that Ginobili's numbers on Ellis were very good. He got burned in Game Six, but that was because Duncan kept sinking back instead of hedging. There's no question Manu lacks Green's quickness and anticipation on defense, but he's still a very smart defender who knows how to use appropriate help.

But until/unless I get those numbers out (or someone finds numbers from another source), we can certainly agree to disagree about who was effective against whom and which Mav drew the most attention defensively.

Who the hell is Monte?

Monta Ellis shot 40.9% from the floor in this series, tbh. He scored a decent bit, but they were chucker-esque numbers at times. He had a 15.6 PER in the series. Not that good, tbh...... Only slightly above average. Manu's PER was 24.5. :toast

Ellis' WS/48 was .048.

His PER this year during the regular season was only 16.8.

Manu does more than score. His assists are a huge part of his game. Blair, when he was here, scored as many points off Manu's assists as he did on his own. Pop said it best. He is a huge part of the Spurs' success, even if neither Pop nor Manu know what he will do from one moment to the next. All Pop knows is "I want Manu in there because I know something is gonna happen." Can't say that about any other Spur. The game is supposed to be entertaining. Manu offers more entertainment than any Spur we have ever had. I, for one, am thankful he is still a Spur.

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Originally Posted by ElNono

But don't worry, now comes "We should've signed Mo Williams over Manu", the sequel... :lol

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Nope, but, the Spurs should have looked at him before they pissed away the MLE on Marco and Ayres.

Manu scored almost as much as monta, way more efficiently, got more boards, steals, and assists, was the heart, the closer of his team and its enforcer too (the only spur to step to Blair when he was the mavs were doling out hard fouls), yet monta is better because he's 28? If anything this series makes me want to revisit manu > dirk, isn't that guy supposed to be unguardable? Wasn't his finesse game suppose to age better? Manu clowned the younger 7ft sg over and over this series, despite having lost a gear to father time.

I don't expect manu to play this well the entire PO but he shit all over dirk, monta and whoever else the mavs threw at him.

As for parker and the defensive focus, prime manu shat all over Marion so many times, and now its ok for a lineup of dirk Blair Marion Ellis Calderon to cut the head off the snake?

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Originally Posted by ElNono

You've been saying that all series, even when I pointed out during the game that Kawhi and Green were getting torched too (and I knew you were reading :lol)

You can run with that schtick, that's fine. Sure, I would've preferred Manu to guard Calderon all series, but the reality is that he did a great job.

Green is the more dynamic defender, no doubt, if he wouldn't be compared to 37 year old manu, then he basically couldn't see the court. Danny though, has other problems. His penchant for biting on pump fakes or fouling 3 point shooters is something he's going to need to work on.

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Maybe I'm biased and flat wrong but for me Manu and Leonard couldn't defend properly Ellis. I have no hidden intention saying that, it's not a stone in Manu's garden at all. Dude is old and does not have lateral quickness to stay in front of him, it is more a comment on the why not using more Green on Ellis. Manu shouldn't be asked to guard that kind of guard imho

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Originally Posted by MeloHype

Who the hell is Monte?

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:tu

Having Monta Ellis is awesome for your team... if you want him to play like a champ for 47 minutes and on the 48th minute chokes hard.

Everybody that says Monta is better than Gino has a point due to age difference, but given their pedigree and Manu's ability to still hit big shots, there really is no debate.

Just picture this: your team is down by 2 and need a 3-pointer in the last possesion, 12 seconds left. Who would you rather give the ball to, Ginobili or Monta? Anybody who says Monta should just gtfo.