Concern about Kawhi's knees this season

So I know he took the summer off because of some knee tendonitis. Everyone had high expectations for Kawhi this season, Chuck even put him as a candidate all-star reserve.

But, from what I've watched, Kawhi seems to be lacking explosiveness and leaping ability this year. Anyone else notice this? Could this be a contributing factor in why he's kind of having a disappointing season and not meeting expectations?

Check these highlights where he's dunking or jumping
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQil2uBmQDw

Compared to 2012-2013 top 10
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2LiOjxxTuo

Notice how he's barely getting off the ground for being like, 23 years old? In the 2012-2013 video, he's getting much higher with his dunks.

I'm really hoping its because Kawhi is saving himself for the playoffs in some CIA Pop plan, but im seriously concerned. We know he got a DNP -rest already this season for being such a young player, which is kind of crazy. We're hearing a bunch of trade rumors also involving some rather big names that I think is impossible to pull off unless kawhi's in the mix...

Maybe I'm just overreacting. Thoughts?

I agree man.

Maybe thats why there was talk he's available in trades if the price is right :downspin:

Kawhi is in trade rumors involving big names because, just like the Spurs, they want good players in return. Who would want to give up a good player for Errors? :lol

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Originally Posted by spurraider21

Maybe thats why there was talk he's available in trades if the price is right :downspin:

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That's what I'm thinking too..Spurs are known to get rid of dead assets ASAP when their value is high..

Kawhi is not an explosive player. Never has been. If you go and look at his DX profile, his no-step vert is 26, and his MAX vert is 32. That's pretty pedestrian. He's strong, long, and pretty quick.

hope kawhi is just taking it easy, im sure it's just cia pop

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Originally Posted by exstatic

Kawhi is not an explosive player. Never has been. If you go and look at his DX profile, his no-step vert is 26, and his MAX vert is 32. That's pretty pedestrian. He's strong, long, and pretty quick.

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Wouldn't NBA teams have work out regimens that can help increase a player's vertical leap? I'm surprised if his vertical is only 26 & 32.

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Originally Posted by Ice009

Wouldn't NBA teams have work out regimens that can help increase a player's vertical leap? I'm surprised if his vertical is only 26 & 32.

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There's only so much you can do. It's not like SDSU doesn't have a workout regimen for it's players. Those measurements were also at the draft combine, and most players have trainers work with them beforehand.

When you look at how many games he missed so far it's troubling even tho the broken hand is a freak accident...

If there's a real issue behind all this, they have to sell quickly... Maybe as soon as the next draft to move up...

I don't think that the Spurs would say that Kawhi is the face of Spurs future then
trading him is out of caricature for R.C. and Pop. Kawhi doesn't need to be the best high jumper
on the team to play defense*. (*see Bruce Bowen )..........

his beta mindset worries me more then his knees tbh...

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Originally Posted by freetiago

his beta mindset worries me more then his knees tbh...

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Tiago? He was one of the few to actually show up huge in games 6 and 7 last year! He showed me alot there when most of the other guys dissapeared! Him and Tim were the only ones who wanted it as far as that goes and what I saw. He does worry me at times as you said but he has shown in big games he can show.

I honestly think him and Green are coasting.

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Originally Posted by freetiago

his beta mindset worries me more then his knees tbh...

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He was really beta in games 6 and 7 of the finals last year (taking ... albeit bricking ... a three that had it fallen would have swung the title). The real beta up until the past two months hasn't even sniffed games 6 and 7 of the finals.

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Originally Posted by Baam

When you look at how many games he missed so far it's troubling even tho the broken hand is a freak accident...

If there's a real issue behind all this, they have to sell quickly... Maybe as soon as the next draft to move up...

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It's more about self-confidence than knee issue.

He's 22 years old, the coach has called him "the future face of the franchise", said he would call more plays for him, so the kid expectes to play a more prominent role, but early this season he realizes that his role is the same of last year.
He gets most of his points on opportunity plays and the coach rarely called his number. Even if he has a great game -like against Warriors or Wolves- he won't get more play time or more touches next games.

The same role in the same system. A month ago, he said "It's not for me to score on the team" "It's not built around me for that right now. So it's pretty much the same role as last year."

Obviously, for a young player who wants to be the dominant player of last Finals who helped Tim to carry the team, who wants to take the next step, that thing should be frustrating, so he seems to get really frustrated.

There's still plenty of time left in the season and Leonard is talented enough to improve, but lack of confidence is a big problem, especially when it comes to shooting the basketball. If he doesn't think the ball is going in every time he shoots, then why is he shooting?

I'm a bit pessimistic about "CIA POP" because nothing has changed since last year, the Spurs run the same plays, doing the same offensive and defensive schemes, the only opportunity in playoffs for Kawhi to step up if Tony or Manu have low performances like last two games in the Finals.

It's more of he's one of the main focus on the opposing team's scouting report now. As opposed to his first two seasons. Teams are more emphasized on stopping him because they know if you stop Leonard and Parker in the starting line-up, it's pretty much over for us. Plus, all they have to do is stick they're longest defender on Tp and its over. Not too worried about the kids knees. IIRC he hasn't missed any time this year because of them.

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Originally Posted by wildchild

It's more about self-confidence than knee issue.

He's 22 years old, the coach has called him "the future face of the franchise", said he would call more plays for him, so the kid expectes to play a more prominent role, but early this season he realizes that his role is the same of last year.
He gets most of his points on opportunity plays and the coach rarely called his number. Even if he has a great game -like against Warriors or Wolves- he won't get more play time or more touches next games.

The same role in the same system. A month ago, he said "It's not for me to score on the team" "It's not built around me for that right now. So it's pretty much the same role as last year."

Obviously, for a young player who wants to be the dominant player of last Finals who helped Tim to carry the team, who wants to take the next step, that thing should be frustrating, so he seems to get really frustrated.

There's still plenty of time left in the season and Leonard is talented enough to improve, but lack of confidence is a big problem, especially when it comes to shooting the basketball. If he doesn't think the ball is going in every time he shoots, then why is he shooting?

I'm a bit pessimistic about "CIA POP" because nothing has changed since last year, the Spurs run the same plays, doing the same offensive and defensive schemes, the only opportunity in playoffs for Kawhi to step up if Tony or Manu have low performances like last two games in the Finals.

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Kawhi gets up more shots this year than last year, and has led the team in shot attempts a couple games. So...ya.

Kawhi knows his role, and is we'll aware that he's not gonna get that many touches when he's playing with TP, and Timmy. Why would he become the focal point of the offense? He knows thus, and is content with it. People are grasping at straws itt.

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Originally Posted by exstatic

Kawhi is not an explosive player. Never has been. If you go and look at his DX profile, his no-step vert is 26, and his MAX vert is 32. That's pretty pedestrian. He's strong, long, and pretty quick.

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I've said this before. People think just because he dunks he's explosive. He not.

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Originally Posted by sehui

So I know he took the summer off because of some knee tendonitis. Everyone had high expectations for Kawhi this season, Chuck even put him as a candidate all-star reserve.

But, from what I've watched, Kawhi seems to be lacking explosiveness and leaping ability this year. Anyone else notice this? Could this be a contributing factor in why he's kind of having a disappointing season and not meeting expectations?

Check these highlights where he's dunking or jumping
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQil2uBmQDw

Compared to 2012-2013 top 10
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2LiOjxxTuo

Notice how he's barely getting off the ground for being like, 23 years old? In the 2012-2013 video, he's getting much higher with his dunks.

I'm really hoping its because Kawhi is saving himself for the playoffs in some CIA Pop plan, but im seriously concerned. We know he got a DNP -rest already this season for being such a young player, which is kind of crazy. We're hearing a bunch of trade rumors also involving some rather big names that I think is impossible to pull off unless kawhi's in the mix...

Maybe I'm just overreacting. Thoughts?

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He's not saving himself. Guys his age don't save themselves for anything. He's giving what he has and your observations are probably correct.

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Originally Posted by UZER

I've said this before. People think just because he dunks he's explosive. He not.

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He's fast but not explosive, and even then only on the break. He doesn't have any legit one on one moves that don't include a pull up jumper. That stuff takes time to develop.

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Originally Posted by wildchild

It's more about self-confidence than knee issue.

He's 22 years old, the coach has called him "the future face of the franchise", said he would call more plays for him, so the kid expectes to play a more prominent role, but early this season he realizes that his role is the same of last year.
He gets most of his points on opportunity plays and the coach rarely called his number. Even if he has a great game -like against Warriors or Wolves- he won't get more play time or more touches next games.

The same role in the same system. A month ago, he said "It's not for me to score on the team" "It's not built around me for that right now. So it's pretty much the same role as last year."

Obviously, for a young player who wants to be the dominant player of last Finals who helped Tim to carry the team, who wants to take the next step, that thing should be frustrating, so he seems to get really frustrated.

There's still plenty of time left in the season and Leonard is talented enough to improve, but lack of confidence is a big problem, especially when it comes to shooting the basketball. If he doesn't think the ball is going in every time he shoots, then why is he shooting?

I'm a bit pessimistic about "CIA POP" because nothing has changed since last year, the Spurs run the same plays, doing the same offensive and defensive schemes, the only opportunity in playoffs for Kawhi to step up if Tony or Manu have low performances like last two games in the Finals.

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There are a thousand different ways one could run the Spurs team, and you can see 29 other ways around the league. Look for teams with similar talent that don't use a similar system and notice they are failures. The Spurs cannot win on talent alone, they don't have it. They have to win on set plays, a few gimmicks here and there (the sporadic zone) and some out of the woodwork play from random players. You take a team like NY or even the Clippers and you think they should have a better record than SA because they have more and younger talent. They lose games because they don't play smart. They don't call timeouts when they could. They trust their own ability to create more than they trust the coach's game plan (if he even has one other than Ubuntu and play harder). Everyone wants Pop to be progressive but the progressive coaches in the league are looking for jobs. The rest are trying as hard as they can to duplicate the Spurs system and for good reason. You cannot argue with the results.

I think the poster early on citing Leonard's relatively NBA pedestrian 32 inch vertical had this pegged. He can get nice looking and easy dunks due to his length but does not get way above the rim. The time off should be ideal for the health of his knees as is our roster depth. I really look for our defense to turn it up a notch to suffocate teams in comparison to without him in there. The Green/Leonard combo is flat nasty on defense as Miami found out last year.

Not getting above the rim never hurt Duncan much though.

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Originally Posted by exstatic

Kawhi is not an explosive player. Never has been. If you go and look at his DX profile, his no-step vert is 26, and his MAX vert is 32. That's pretty pedestrian. He's strong, long, and pretty quick.

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Theese was the guy who nailed it.

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Originally Posted by Knoxxx

Theese was the guy who nailed it.

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That's not what the OP is saying tho, he's saying that he has gotten worse, he went from dunking on Ibaka as a rookie to getting rejected twice in the same game in Toronto and has missed several months in between due to knee issues and has been said to play hurt almost as long...

The only aspect of Leonard's game that has regressed is his 3-point shooting, everything else is virtually identical to last season or better, tbh..

He has actually slightly improved on everything else, tbh:

- Shooting a better % inside the paint
- Creating 7% more offense for himself than last year
- Slightly improved rebounding
- Better shooting on the mid-range jump shot
- Higher efficiency in created shots in the half-court
- More self-created fast break points

The only aspect of his game that has regressed is his 3-point shooting, which hurts him when playing with Parker, since Tony is a high-usage player that relies heavily on penetrating and kicking off the pick&roll with the big..

His defense isn't any different in ability, but Pop has assigned him to smaller guards more often this season to mask Belinelli's lack of defense, and defending guards isn't Leonard's speciality, he actually struggles to defend those types of players, unlike Green..

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Originally Posted by HarlemHeat37

The only aspect of Leonard's game that has regressed is his 3-point shooting, everything else is virtually identical to last season or better, tbh..

He has actually slightly improved on everything else, tbh:

- Shooting a better % inside the paint
- Creating 7% more offense for himself than last year
- Slightly improved rebounding
- Better shooting on the mid-range jump shot
- Higher efficiency in created shots in the half-court
- More self-created fast break points

The only aspect of his game that has regressed is his 3-point shooting, which hurts him when playing with Parker, since Tony is a high-usage player that relies heavily on penetrating and kicking off the pick&roll with the big..

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Indeed, but even with 3 pt%, he started off as very slow and has gradually improved over the season.

Month, Made, Att, %
November,8,40 - 0.200
December, 13,36 - 0.361
January, 10,23 - 0.435
Overall, 33,101 -0.327

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Originally Posted by Baam

That's not what the OP is saying tho, he's saying that he has gotten worse, he went from dunking on Ibaka as a rookie to getting rejected twice in the same game in Toronto and has missed several months in between due to knee issues and has been said to play hurt almost as long...

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Ibaka is a beast, it takes a bit of luck for anyone to dunk on him. Who knows how bad KL knees really are, but clearly a guy we need to manage minutes and keep healthy for the playoffs like the Big 3.

Point is he is really not a high flyer, so similar to Duncan we can hope any knee issues are manageable and don't detract from a highly productive career. Duncan against Clippers age 37 was a sight to behold, he looked very limber, quick, and displayed 1000% higher B-Ball IQ than DeAndre Jordan while abusing him. KL is more like the swingman version of TD to me, not the high flying monster dunking low BB IQ type that fans love to see get 4 dunks for a grand total of 8 points in a game. To average fan, a dunk is worth 10 points and they can have that fools' gold!

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Originally Posted by Knoxxx

Ibaka is a beast, it takes a bit of luck for anyone to dunk on him. Who knows how bad KL knees really are, but clearly a guy we need to manage minutes and keep healthy for the playoffs like the Big 3.

Point is he is really not a high flyer, so similar to Duncan we can hope any knee issues are manageable and don't detract from a highly productive career. Duncan against Clippers age 37 was a sight to behold, he looked very limber, quick, and displayed 1000% higher B-Ball IQ than DeAndre Jordan while abusing him. KL is more like the swingman version of TD to me, not the high flying monster dunking low BB IQ type that fans love to see get 4 dunks for a grand total of 8 points in a game. To average fan, a dunk is worth 10 points and they can have that fools' gold!

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Yeah I'm sure Kawhi has improved fundamentally as a NBA player, but his athletcism seemed to be weaker this season. Which like I mentioned earlier ,is kind of strange seeing how young he is, and it's not like he's playing 40+ minutes either. I just think it's weird we are managing minutes for Kawhi when pretty much every single other young stud in the NBA who has even more responsibility than Kawhi is balling like 40+ min a night with no issue.

THERE SHOULD BE NO CONCERN ABOUT HIS KNEES.

Bio-mechanically speaking, there is nothing wrong with his knees. He jumps as high as he always has. He wasn't a Gerald Green Leaper when he came in and isn't expected to be. His long ass arms give him the ability to get high from the waist up.

Just analyze his GAIT(the way he walks, runs, and jumps) There is no misstep, no short hop, or any of the things that we should see if there were knee issues. If he had one, he'd be favoring the knee and a good eye could tell. My experienced good eye says there is nothing wrong with his knee.

People only say Kawhi's has regressed because they had homoerotic unrealistic expectations for him this year. He's playing about as I expected and I've been pleased.

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Originally Posted by SpursFan313

Kawhi gets up more shots this year than last year, and has led the team in shot attempts a couple games. So...ya.

Kawhi knows his role, and is we'll aware that he's not gonna get that many touches when he's playing with TP, and Timmy. Why would he become the focal point of the offense? He knows thus, and is content with it. People are grasping at straws itt.

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Leonard is the 4th option when on the floor based on usage porcentage, he averages 385 touches, 6th on the Spurs.

I wouldn't say that Kawhi is precisely an emotional guy who wears his emotions on his sleeves, so who knows if he is content with his role. I just repeat that he said to the media.
In off-season he told reporters he was ready for breakout season, aims to be an All Star, once the season has started, he says he has the same role as last year

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Originally Posted by HarlemHeat37

His defense isn't any different in ability, but Pop has assigned him to smaller guards more often this season to mask Belinelli's lack of defense, and defending guards isn't Leonard's speciality, he actually struggles to defend those types of players, unlike Green..

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For example, Harden is a nightmare match-up for him. Green on Harden and Leonard on Parsons sounds more appropriate for their defensive skills.

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Originally Posted by freetiago

his beta mindset worries me more then his knees tbh...

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:wow

This is all so prophetic :wow :worthy:

Hmmm bad knees since very young... He might have an expiration date that came in sooner than expected...

We cut ties with dejuan when it was clear his career was over.... Albiet he had a much more severe issues and wasn't a central player


But, it's a precedent that the Spurs will put a price on a medically comprised player