Hollinger on Oberto

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Originally Posted by Kori Ellis

Huh? How would they have an idea? If they had an amount that he would agree to, then they'd probably extend him right now. Nazr could sucks this season and not be worth more than $3M/year and if he performs well, he could easily demand $8-9M or more on the open market.

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Someone posted that the max available for NASR's contract extension was 5 years for about 42,000,000--which would be at the $8,000,000 figure you mention. If true, and we're not able to sign him to the extension, then He and his agent must feel like his market value is more in the 9-10,000,000 range (or higher) if he plays out his contract and has a good season.

Does anyone have a list of the top 14 contracts for centers in the league? It might give us some perspective on the market value of both our centers and the other centers around the league.

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Originally Posted by leemajors

i'm with grjr, we were rolling along damn well before rasho and tim both got hurt. should be an interesting battle for the center spot this year. i appreciate what nazr brought after rash got hurt, but let's not blow our wads too early. he could very easily revert.

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I seem to remember the Spurs registering their most impressive regular-season wins right after Rasho sprained his ankle the first time -- @Phoenix and the 31-point win @Sacramento.

The concern back then was not that the Spurs would hit a losing streak, but ratehr that Rasho's absence might increase the wear and tear on Tim. He did eventually go down, but I don't think "wear and tear" is the reason he landed on some Laker's ankle.

In retrospect, Rasho was so ineffectual that the Spurs could play TMass heavy minutes without a noticeable dropoff in production on either end. If anything, TMass improved the frontcourt play, though he was foul-prone.

I think I was one of the ones who got wrapped up in the "intangibles" and "positional defense" and "knowledge of the system" that Rasho allegedly was providing. That was imaginary. In retrospect, the Spurs could stick a 37-year-old scrub in his spot and see an improvement in the position.

So all this talk about how much Pop loves Rasho and how the Spurs were only starting Nazr in order not to mess up rotations was probably a smokescreen in order not to crush Rasho, who is a nice guy after all.

I think I outsmarted myself. Rasho is a 7-footer who gets 5 points and 3 rebounds for $7 million a year. Wipe all the cobwebs and smokescreens away and what you have is Jack Haley or Felton Spencer with a contract that only Isiah Thomas can love. In other words, he is a complete bust.

I have to bow before the likes of Stephen A. Smith on this one. This is one that Pop blew.

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Originally Posted by Aggie Hoopsfan

LJ,

I don't think it's that he's not serviceable,

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What the hell does "serviceable" mean anyway? Are you using it as in Patrick Ewing being serviceable to the girls in the backroom of the Gold Club in Atlanta?

Or are you saying that there is some possible way to improve Rasho's 'game'?

Seriously, I've never seen that word applied to a human being until the debate about whether to trade Rasho arose.

What is a serviceable player?

I've probably hated on Radosoft more than anyone in this forum. He's not that bad. The Spurs are just extremely fortunate that they were able to nab Oberto for half of the MLE. Thinking about how the Spurs' bigman rotations have looked like over the past 5 or so seasons, it will not be surprising if the Spurs go with only one other center on the roster besides TD. Both Nazr and Radosoft are quite expendable right now.

The Spurs would love nothing more than to drop as much of Rasho's contract as they can immediately. With Nazr they may end up keeping him for the rest of the next season, but no doubt they will be looking for a good deal involving him and a young 3 and/or a pick(s).

The Spurs are going to go with a frontcourt that consists of TD and a true center backed up by power forwards.

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Originally Posted by Kip Fanatic

The real point is the Rasho signing was a mistake. Period. He was solid at best. He wasn't the reason the Spurs won the is past season. I want you people to name an important game this past season where you can say' "if it weren't for Rasho the Spurs wouldn't have won that game last." Please try to convince me the signing of Rasho wasn't a mistake. The Spurs front office isn't mistake free. We tend to forget that they have had bad signings because of the way we found Tony and Manu.

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Hindsight is always 20/20. When the Spurs needed to find a starting center to replace the Admiral, there were exactly 3 big men on the market: Olowakandi, Miller, and Rasho. Although Miller was probably the top player on that list, his price-tag was clearly going to be higher. Remember the Spurs were also flirting with Jason Kidd at that time. So, Miller instead ended up as part of a 3 team swap (Kings, Pacers, Spurs) that netted the Spurs Turkoglu and Ron Mercer. That deal was made for cap space, since both those contracts were expiring, and the Spurs anticipated that Parker and Ginobili would be in line for salary increases. Also, there was the REMOTE possibility that if Ginobili left, the $$ saved could be used to recruit another F.A (Kobe?)

The Spurs needed a center, he was the best available and they went with him. Do they go through the 2003-04 season with Horry or Rose in the starting lineup instead?

It's only because the Spurs have Nazr and now Oberto that Rasho seems problematic.

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Originally Posted by Shawn Michaels

if Rasho goes who the hell playing center(Duncan and Nazr) nut who else? I don't think Duncan like to play center

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Only when he has to take on the likes of Shaq (which is very little now) and I'd say Yao. I'm sure I left out one or two but TD matches up with pretty well with all the other "centers" in the league that he shouldn't mind spending som time banging with them down on the block.

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Originally Posted by TheWriter

Jason Kidd, PJ Brown, Jermaine O'Neal, Karl Malone, Chris Webber. That's off the top of my head.

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And each one will end up w/o a ring. I love it!!

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Originally Posted by gus

manu said that one of the reasons why Scola didn't come is that the Spurs need a center because TD do not want to play Center full time.

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I think bottom line with Scola is the too much $$ to buyout his contract compared to what the Spurs were offering. Next year it will be lower and probably doable.

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Originally Posted by Kip Fanatic

The real point is the Rasho signing was a mistake. Period. He was solid at best. He wasn't the reason the Spurs won the is past season. I want you people to name an important game this past season where you can say' "if it weren't for Rasho the Spurs wouldn't have won that game last." Please try to convince me the signing of Rasho wasn't a mistake. The Spurs front office isn't mistake free. We tend to forget that they have had bad signings because of the way we found Tony and Manu.

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It was a mistake only in the fact that Pop and Mgmt thought he would reach his limited potential with us rather than Twolves. It looks like Rasho is going to be what he's going to be.

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Originally Posted by Aggie Hoopsfan

I think it's a byproduct of the fact that teams are historically hesitant to help out reigning champions in the trade department...

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The hesitation to help out the champs should pertain only to which conference they are in. In our case, the jealous WC teams will stay away from us. But the GMs in the EC will come looking for Rasho or Nazr because Shaq, the Wallaces and the Pacers O'Neil are in the East.

"Rasho is going to be what he's going to be."

I'm pretty sure the Nazr who we saw Mar-Jun wil be the same Nazr we will see this autumn. Bad hands, almost no good moves around the basket, and below avg bball IQ, while being a solid rebounder. He "should" pick up the defense better, but so far, Rasho has him beat pretty solidly on defense. I think Rasho anticipates switches and rotations and general court awareness more than Nazr.

It should be an interesting Oct-Dec as Rasho (who was more aggressive after Nazr showed) up, Nazr, and Oberto compete for starting and/or PT.

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Originally Posted by boutons

"Rasho is going to be what he's going to be."

I'm pretty sure the Nazr who we saw Mar-Jun wil be the same Nazr we will see this autumn. Bad hands, almost no good moves around the basket, and below avg bball IQ, while being a solid rebounder. It should be an interesting Oct-Dec as Rasho (who was more aggressive after Nazr showed) up, Nazr, and Oberto compete for starting and/or PT.

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I'll have to disagree since I don't think you factored in that Nazr came over in mid-season, was injured and had to adapt to new environment, teammates and other intangibles. Let's revisit your analysis in January.

I separate Nazr's individual skills, his fundamentals, from his team play. The personal weaknesses we all saw won't disappear at his age and at this point in his career (same for Rasho), and they were not due to his groin injury, which we really didn't hear about after March. I do expect his team play to improve.

People seem to forget that Nazr wont be easy to hold on to. If he asks for more money next year, the spurs may have to let him go leaving the team without a legit center if you trade rasho

Better trade Nazr while you still can

Agreed. Nazr has a lot of energy but when you look at it closely and think about it. I personally dont think he is a starting center for us long term. I seriously think we will be going into the season with rasho nazr and oberto. then look for our front office to trade nazr midway for some help to plug other holes and push for the post season. this scenario will only become tricky if oberto sucks big time or if someone gets injured and is out for the season. next season, nazr's contract becomes tempting again. I wont be surprised if dear old isiah comes back for him again. if not there would be other teams out of the playoff race willing to deal as well. so we'll see. he wont be worth the money when it comes to resigning him. he'll probably end up like malik rose. someone you liked for his energy and heart but would saddle you with a bad contract.

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Originally Posted by clubalien

Ian is the future I could see him comering here maybe in two years
once he is here he will dominate the league more than amare did

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OMG :lmao

If I were the type that would be going in my sig.

Draft bust for sure

Oh yes, Oberto is Only 6´10 and 245 Pounds and he´s too small to play C

Nazr is bigger, 6´10 and 250 pounds, a size for a Center, and is better to move TD to center, 6´11 and 260 pounds

We are talking about 1" and 15 pounds less than TD, it´s ridiculous

you guys realize that just because someone is 'listed' as something doesn't mean it's true.

plus some guys have longer arms and lower centers of gravity thus 'playing bigger'...

we're just going to have to wait to see if he can play center (I'm sure it will be different based on matchups too)

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Originally Posted by mrpach

Better trade Nazr while you still can

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That might be the thinking of nearly all other NBA teams, but the Spurs owners also see dollar signs when Nazr's contract ends.

who knows? mabe theyre using rasho to check the grounds for a nazr trade

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Originally Posted by Dalamar_the_Dark

(Nazr) wont be worth the money when it comes to resigning him. he'll probably end up like malik rose. someone you liked for his energy and heart but would saddle you with a bad contract.

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But with Nazr you get an expiring contract. So depending on which trade gives us the better return, either Naxr or Rasho goes at February trade deadline.

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Originally Posted by CaptainLate

But with Nazr you get an expiring contract. So depending on which trade gives us the better return, either Naxr or Rasho goes at February trade deadline.

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I would rather Nazr goes. First we can probably get a better price for him cause he has an expiring contract. But more importantly. Its very hard to teach someone to catch a ball. If after all these years he doesnt have soft hands. you aint going to teach him that now. I still like Rasho better.

I also think the Spurs got Oberto in as cover for Nazr. I still believe that they will carry on with Rasho. They cant lose his defense. I remember someone posted some +- efficiency figures sometime back about Rasho and Nazr on the floor. I remember having Rasho on the floor is much better than Nazr.

Ok. It's been a while since I was here... Well right after the WCF if I'm correct. And I have a quick question for you fellas:

If Rasho's traded and Nazr bolts next offseason, you'd go after one of last years free agents big men or use one of your euro stashed picks?