Any word on how negotiations are going? How likely does it look like we can get him signed?
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Any word on how negotiations are going? How likely does it look like we can get him signed?
He's not a free agent is he? I haven't heard anything about. I hope they are just working on a longer deal.
He's not a free-agent but the Spurs are able to sign him to a contract extension this summer. However, Marcus Bryant ran the numbers and it looks like the most the Spurs could offer him is a shade under $40 over five years. That probably will not cut it.
Offer it up.Quote:
That probably will not cut it.
If it don't work, you trade him.
what u mean that wont cut it?
nazr is a smart guy aint he? watch him go to hawks for the max
Nazr and his agent know that if he has a big year, he'll get Erick Dampier money. I highly doubt the Spurs can extend him this summer.
In that case you trade him.
Trade NEsterovic.
So you can have Oberto Duncan Horry and whoever else.
Whats the big deal if we lose Nazr. Even if Rasho is no longer on the team, we would still have Timmy, Oberto, BsB, the rights to scola, the rights to Javtokas, and the rights to Ian. The Spurs have a plenty of big man options.
what does that mean truth?Quote:
"You can win easier if Duncan make the free drops," he said, "and Parker no lose balls."
Javtokas is maybe mediocre at best, Scola is undersized, and IAN aint comin around for another 3 years.Quote:
the rights to scola, the rights to Javtokas, and the rights to Ian
So wanna tell me how thats a good thing again?
You can't wait for those guys to develop and show up in da league.
The next five years are the prime of Tim Duncan's career. The Spurs management needs to be ponying up for whoever they need to, bite the bullet, and see how many rings they can wring out of this squad.
Fuck the future, the time to win is now.
Tim duncan can make any scrub player look good, look at freakn rasho :D
Scola is still the best power player in Europe and Rasho and Nazr are better than mediocre?Quote:
Originally Posted by T Park
Would the knicks still be interested in nazr or rasho? in return we get ariza as bowens replacement.
If you think Javtokas is mediocre than get back out on the ledge and this time JUMP. :pctossQuote:
Originally Posted by T Park
Timvp is correct Nazr and his agent won't go for an extension. They will price themselves out of SA next year. DOn't let the door hit you in the Ass on the way out.
Rasho is a blue light special and noone including the Nicks want this creampuff for what he is making, but than again you never know about NY.they took Rose. :lol
Javtokas, oberto, nazr, this year and if were stuck with raso so be it.
Next year Oberto, Javtokas and a old vet, i.e massenberg type for the min.
Remember Pop said all we need out of the 5 is what DRob gave us and
that my friend is mediocre the last couple of years, no matter what the reason.
TPark I though you had more knowledge about basketball than to say Jatokas is mediocre, i.e
Vertical Leap Rasho= 3"
Nazr= 6-9"
Marks = "Whats that mate"
Javtokas 36+" and he is finess, which Scola is not.
Mediocre is probably being to fair. Javtokas has done nothing in the NBA and since his injuries nothing of much stature in Europe.
T-Park was actually being a bit of a homer in his evaluations.
Seriously if this guy can recover from a bike accident quicker and still manage to play ball even though he has lost sum atheletic abilities, his still puttin up solid numbers in his league, compared to jay williams n tj ford who have been out for how long nobody kept track off.
Has anyone here seen Javtokas play besides myself??
I'll admit he has yet to play in the NBA but this guy is good. He won't come cheap like Oberto. I'm wondering if the Spurs will pay him. I think $$ may have been a factor in him staying in Europe, plus his getting married and wanting a contract for this coming year. He will be on the all rookie team his first year.
http://www.24sec.net/article.asp?index=1922
Nothing in Europe :lol :lol :lol
you must have no links to eurobasket, etc
I think Javtokas would consider anything the spurs offered. Remember, after his accident, the Spurs paid for his surgery and rehab, and he wasn't even under contract. I'm thinking that might go a long way in negotiations.
Actually the original deal Isiah wanted was Nazr for Rasho, so try again.Quote:
Rasho is a blue light special and noone including the Nicks want this creampuff for what he is making,
I've said going back to the WCF that the Spurs needed to extend Nazr this summer if they didn't want to be paying a lot more for him next season.
I'm hoping they can still get something done this summer but the window is closing.
Yes, and "finesse" isn't a word anyone who has would use to describe him.Quote:
Has anyone here seen Javtokas play besides myself??
Maybe Nazr doesn't want to sign an extension this summer? Right now the max extension he's eligible for is 5 years and $37 mil. Does that seem like something he couldn't get next summer?
It'll be rather hard to blame the Spurs for not being able to get him to sign for that. But I'm sure some Spurs fans will.
AFE7FATMAN
Wow you watch a lot of Euro ball, and you do this from the US?? Correct me if I'm wrong but I didn't think they showed much Euro ball over there. I don't claim to have seen him play much but I have seen games from Olympics and a few Euro games I'd be suprised if you've had the capacity to see more. Regardless if you have thats great.
However that doesn't stop your analysis from being dead wrong.
Javtokas is nothing more than an average player in the actual Euroleague. I agree that he has a good skill set. However he no longer hgas a 36" inch vert, its gone. Not coming back. He still has a chance to make it to the NBA but not in the capacity you seem to suggest. Do you believe Ian Mahimni is going to be better than Amare as well?
:rolleyes
That's a good point Marcus, I hadn't bothered to do the math but your numbers sound right on the extension this summer.
That's probably why the Spurs are trying to move Rasho, maybe they plan on matching for Nazr no matter what and realize they're going to need to free up some $$$.
How are you getting the numbers?Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus Bryant
Marcus, have you seen anything on the new CBA's contract extension information? Coon's salary cap faq isn't up to date and the extension stuff could have changed.
So if this is true...why do we want trade Rasho and risk having no centers? It does not make sense. The Spurs will not spend 80 million on Nazr.
Here's a way to think about it. Rasho's deal could very well expose the Spurs to a loss in the amount of lux tax distributions they receive from the league if it helps to put them over the threshold. Since they have apparently decided that they prefer Nazr over him, and with Oberto joining the team, it is difficult to justify paying Rasho $30 mil over the next 4 seasons plus however much is foregone from the luxury tax program. Holt Cat has come to love those luxury tax payments.
Yeah, but Nazr is going to demand a lot more money next year and Spurs probably can't afford him, unless they go over the luxury threshold.
Unless they drop Rasho's deal...
Yeah, but Nazr is probably going be worth 80 Million or more...And that might push it over the threshold even without Rasho's contract.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus Bryant
I know what you are saying Marcus...Haha, i'm just worried some crazy team is going to offer him crazy money and we are going to be left with no one.
Consider this: maybe the Spurs management knows what they have in Nazr, and really like the idea of him and TD together for the rest of the TD era, as far as title aspirations go. Perhaps Spurs management has gotten the blessing to go over the threshold to keep Nazr if they can move Rasho.
They largely know what their payroll is going to look like for the next 4 years, and with Oberto coming in for cheap and Scola probably being forced to do the same down the road, those are small, fixed costs they know they can deal with.
Think about it...
Here's what they've got committed for the next several years: (number in parentheses is what salary they would have committed without Rasho on the roster)
05-06: TD, Manu, Parker, Horry, Oberto, Barry, Bowen, Rasho, Beno, Nazr, 58 million (51 million) with 4 spots to go.
06-07: Duncan, Parker, Manu, Horry, Oberto, Barry, Bowen, Rasho, Beno, 57 million (50 million)
07-08: Duncan, Parker, Manu, Barry, Bowen, Rasho, Beno, Oberto, 54 million (46 million)
08-09: Duncan, Parker, Manu, Nazr, Beno: 48 million (39.5 million).
09-10: Duncan, Parker, Manu: 45 million.
Now figure that Scola will probably be over next summer, and sign a 3-4 year deal, and expect the deal to start small, in the 2-3 million range.
If you notice without Rasho the Spurs team salary is on a sliding declining scale the next 4 years, and a new deal for Nazr starting next summer at somewhere around 7-8 million could slide in underneath the lux tax for the Spurs for every year but next year, assuming they can move Rasho for draft picks, an expiring contract, or short-term deals.
Just thought I'd add some more numbers to the discussion.
Nice point.
Before freaking out about resigning Nazr and whether he gets $70-80 million from some other team let's see if he can keep from sliding behind Oberto as the fourth big in the Spurs' rotation.
For the 2005-06 season it appears that Rasho won't cost the entire amount of his contract in foregone lux tax distributions, but that could very well be the situation starting in 2006-07. Over the last 3 years of his deal Rasho is guaranteed to make $23.5 mil. He could effectively cost the Spurs $47 mil over those 3 seasons in total if they are over the threshold. It might not be so far fetched to see the Spurs take the amnesty axe to him. This is what is motivating the Spurs' desire to drop him this summer ASAP. He could cost them roughly $2 to 3 mil for 2005-06 in lost lux tax distributions.
Best I can tell right now there's only going to be about 4-5 teams with a chunk of change next summer, and take a look at the FA classes of '06 and '07:Quote:
i'm just worried some crazy team is going to offer him crazy money and we are going to be left with no one.
'06:
Al Harrington
Drew Gooden
Jason Terry
Nene
Tayshaun
Ben Wallace
Mike James
bobby Jackson
Lorenzen Wright
James Posey
Trevor Ariza
Tim Thomas
Joel Pryzbilla
Peja
'07:
Lebron
Paul Pierce
Primoz Brezec
Kirk Hinrich
Andres Nocioni
Josh Howard
Dirk
Carmelo
Milicic (you know some team will say what the hell, why not...)
Mickael Pietrus
Yao
Jonathan Bender
Dwyane Wade
T.J. Ford
Desmond Mason
Vince Carter
Jamaal Magloire
Mike Sweetney
Amare Stoudemire
Mike Bibby
Rashard Lewis
Chris Bosh
Antawn Jamison
(according to Patricia's Salary Cap/Contracts FAQ).
So some teams might be eyeing him next year, but you've also got two monster classes of free agents between next summer and the following one, with the eyes on the "prizes" of Amare, Lebron, Yao, and Wade.
"He could effectively cost the Spurs $47"
And Saddam had ICBMs armed with nuclear weapons. Total fantasy BS. There is no way the Spurs would run a payroll such that entirety of Rasho's salary would be over the cap and into luxury tax for the next 3 years.
I don't see why teams such as Indiana and New Jersey aren't interested...with Shaq in the east, they need a bigman that can defend him.
The maximum contract for another team's free agent having Nazr's experience is five years, $84 million right now. Is somebody going to throw a max contract at him?Quote:
Originally Posted by usckk
Dampier got 6/73. But nobody except the Spurs can offer Nazr a 6-year deal under the new CBA. 5 is the limit. I think Nazr's market value is 5/60 or thereabouts.
I seriously doubt the Spurs will pay that.
And yet they're doing everything they can to dump Rasho??? Strange. They must really think Rasho sucks to do that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by boutons
Take a look at the guaranteed contracts the Spurs have over the next five seasons. If they want to remain competitive and maximize what they get out of the luxury tax program then Radoslav has to go. That's reality.
It's more about the Spurs believing that he is not worth close to $60 mil over the next 4 seasons.Quote:
Originally Posted by Extra Stout
I don't think the Spurs think he sucks. I think it's about paying a guy that much to play that little. He's good against Shaq and Yao, but I don't think that's enough to justify the money.Quote:
Originally Posted by Extra Stout
I sure wish Nazr will stay loyal and sign a 6 year contract worth about 50 million.
No way Nazr's contract will average over 10. In fact I'll say there is no way he'll average over 7-8 in a spurs Uniform.
There is not going to be a feeding frenzy ala Dalembert for a guy that doesn't have 'upside' and is over 25.
Why are we comparing to Dampier? this is widely regarded as HUGE overpay (in the same category as Fisher/Foyle).
NJ has no ending contracts and nothing to trade. Indianna has Pollard's ending contract if they wanted to take on Rasho and his contract.Quote:
Originally Posted by usckk
They don't have to think Rasho sucks. All they have to think is that between TD, Oberto, and Nazr, with Scola, Javtokas, Karaulov, and Ian in the wings there wouldn't be any playing time left for Radoslav.
It's about relative value. Oberto at a couple of million could be better than Rasho or Nazr. If Oberto is good they could let Nazr and Rasho, if they could lose him, go and sign some big lug to wrestle with Shaq and Yao a few minutes for a couple of million, using the extra money on an upgrade at SF.
Also, no one wants to help the champs and also, probably, one of the owners who originally pushed for the lux tax system. Front offices around the league know what is up. They know the Spurs are trying to continue to milk the lux tax program while they are winning championships.
It's not like any of this information is secret. If we jackasses know the terms of player contracts and the CBA rules then you can bet that other front offices are well aware of what the Spurs are trying to do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by picnroll
Indeed. I would not be surprised to see them lose both Radoslav and Nazr over the next 12 months.
Haha :lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Marcus Bryant
Remember, Duncan is the Spurs' backup center. It's not hard to envision them starting Oberto alongside Duncan and then having Horry, Scola and whoever on the bench backing them up.
Oberto for $7.5 mil over 3 seasons looks a hell of a lot better in the starting lineup than Rasho for $30 mil over 4 seasons or Nazr for $50 mil over 6 seasons.
I posted this in another thread but it is more relavent here. And now figuring the maximum amount the Spurs could offer in an extension, it makes even less sense for Nazr to sign now.
"Nazr's camp would be wise to not sign an extension right now. Technically we only saw the partial Nazr. Slowed by a groin injury, minimal practices to learn the system, playing with unfamiliar teammates and not completely knowing his role.
If he accepts an extension now it's because the Spurs are willing to give him a contract based on his potential, not what he's already done in our system. Otherwise Nazr should come in healthy, go through the whole training camp, learn the system and his teammates and maximize his performance.
If he's successful, which you would imagine he'd be better after truly being "processed" by the system, then his value to the Spurs and in the open market rises."
Javtokas is another guy the Spurs could go to for bench depth next summer. Plus there are always the Kevin Willises and Tony Massenburgs of the league if you need a 5th big on the cheap.
Speaking of which... do we even have a deep bench right now? Wilks, Marks, LJIII, Mass? I know LJIII is gone.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus Bryant
LJ3 and Massenburg are gone, apparently. Spots 11 through 15 are wide open right now.Quote:
Originally Posted by spurschick
I'm not down on Nazr but realistically at this point in his career his hands aren't going to get better and his outside shot isn't likely to get better. In terms of play for the Spurs the most improvement we can hope for is that he understands the defense better, covering his assignments better. He's not going to blow up all of a sudden.
Maybe summer league players? After signing Devin or Big Dog or whoever, there obviously won't be much $ left.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus Bryant
His didn't have problems with his hands in the playoffs until the refs let Ben Wallace beat the hell out of him every night with no hope of getting a call.Quote:
his hands aren't going to get better
But you're right - I think the big gain will be on the defensive end. I expect his shooting to get better with Chip around, though.
It looks like the Spurs rate Nazr >> Rasho. This is a bit premature to me.
To keep Nazr, the Spurs are going to have to into lux tax territory, and the Spurs seem a little panicky, apparently looking to trade Rasho for any warm body with a shorter-term contract.
I think that's two bad judgments on the Spurs part. WIth some patience, the Spurs would find out this season whether Nazr is really that much better, whether Oberto can pick up the slack, and whether some team is willing to give the Spurs a good deal for a decent center.
Quote:
Originally Posted by picnroll
If Oberto can start in the NBA, Nazr becomes a luxury and one with a hefty potential price tag next summer.
Remember, the Spurs obtained Nazr first and foremost because they wanted to drop Rose's contract. A few of us pointed out that Nazr's Spurs career would likely only last a season and a half due to that. The signing of Oberto makes a short stay in SA for Nazr seem much more likely.
Quote:
Originally Posted by spurschick
Yeah, the IR is likely to be filled with such players. Spots 11 and 12 will go to Brown, GRob, and/or other legit NBA players they can get with what they have let under the cap.
Chip has his work cut out for him. That catapult from behind the head Nazr calls a shot is horrible.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aggie Hoopsfan
Here is what seems to be in the cards over the next 12 months:
- Rasho is moved for an expiring contract or a lesser one. Getting waived under the amnesty clause is somewhat of a possibility as well.
- The Spurs will get outbid for Nazr next summer.
- The Spurs will sign Scola next summer
- Fabricio Oberto will be the Spurs' starting center in 2006-07, if not at some point in 2005-06.
A agree. But I also think everyone is banking on Chip to accomplish some major things almost immediately. We also have to remember that several Spurs players have issues with their free throw and less-than-perfect strokes.Quote:
Originally Posted by picnroll
There is only one Chip and I'm not sure if every Spur that need work makes their offseason home in SA. I'm assuming Nazr does not but does anyone know for sure?
I think it's safe to agree that Chip only has a couple of projects right now:
Rasho, Nazr, Tony, Bowen, Tim.
The hardest part will be the mechanics changes, after that it's not like he needs to be holding their hand while they do things like say shoot 500 shots a day or anything, and he can supervise more than one player at a time.
I hope the first thing the Spurs did after the Oberto signing is to give him a strength training program. I know he's not a fragile player but he could use an extra ten pounds of muscle to better hold his position in the NBA and be considered starting material, especially on a championship caliber squad.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus Bryant
Five is more than a couple but I understand what you're trying to say. He's not going to work on the entire team all at once. Fair enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aggie Hoopsfan
Does anyone know where Rasho and Nazr make their offseason homes? And hopefully Tonay is spending more time at home working on his game than in LA and Paris. Does anyone know if he's going to play for the French National Team this summer (or if they even have any tournaments scheduled)?
Chip doesn't need to hold their hand but he should be working with them on a daily basis to make sure they are continuing to properly execute the mechanics changes he is proposing for them.
This is especially true then they are shooting a high volume of jumpshots per day. He needs to make sure they continue to follow form even as their arms get fatigued (not everyone in the NBA shoots 500 jumpshots per day in the summer, or ever for that matter), or as they tend to drift back to their original shots.
Of course, it also depends on whether he chooses to try to tweak a player's existing shot or completely rebuild it.
I'm sure the Spurs got it covered but I hope they got him a couple of assistants to make sure each player is properly following through with their instruction.
I read somewhere that TP and Chip had already gotten together at a gym in LA last month.
I think I read somewhere too that Nazr bought a house in SA.
Somewhere here there was an article on how Chip goes about improving shooting and it was nowhere close to an overnight process.
Yeah, I read the TP and LA thing also and I'm wondering how much time he plans to spend there. He need to work with Chip more than once a week and I don't think Chip wants to fly out there 2-3 times a week.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aggie Hoopsfan
Hopefully Nazr has decided to stay in SA over the offseason. It could only benefit him and his upcoming free agency if he takes max advantage of the tools the Spurs offer him.
Besides Tim's free throw stroke, which at times I think is primarily mental but he tries to adjust physically, I think Rasho stands the most to benefit (if he isn't traded).
I think that is a HUGE part of Rasho's timidness around the basket. He's afraid to mix it up in the paint and draw contact because he's deathly afraid of being sent to the line.
This causes him to not take shots around the basket, not take them with authority, not post up and actively look for the ball, release shots too quickly and miss them, wander out of the low block, and limit his activity around the basket (including potential rebounds).
If his stroke improves and he can regain some confidence (big IF) and he can at least return to the 12 and 8 Rasho, then maybe the Spurs let Nazr walk after all. Odds are Nazr won't sign an extension and if he has a good season, I think the Spurs get outbid for his services.
I'd prefer to keep Rasho around one more season and see what happens but all indications are that the Spurs will dump him on someone for two expired lottery tickets and a sack of marbles. Hopefully they wait until at least the trade deadline to make a move. I think they are in near panic mode as they weight the possibility of making him an amnesty release. Simma down Spurs...
I thought that TP was already back in SA. He was at Malik's grand opening.Quote:
Originally Posted by Notorious H.O.P.
Oops, TP is actually in France for the Bouygues Telecom NBA Basketball Challenge.
It will boil down to whether he's smart enough to want to win a few more rings with the greatest PF ever, or take the $$ and be a loser the rest of his career.Quote:
Originally Posted by timvp
Well, he's not going to take $2.5 mil a season as his replacement has...
There are crazy teams (desperate is more like it) out there. But Nazr isn't worth even Joe Johnson $$ ($70mil).Quote:
Originally Posted by usckk
Didn't say he needed to. But if he thinks he's worth Joe Johnson $$, then he's listening to his agent and not his head.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus Bryant
its a shame we have to have this discussion, why can't our fucking owners be like the MAvericks JUST FOR ONCE
(AHF made an excellent point--fuck the future, the time to win is now)
Why can't they stop being tight asses, pay over the cap for once, and re-sign Nazr to a good large deal...within reason of course! If the league is getting to the point where players like JOE JOHNSON get maximum freakin contracts, then it just may be pointless to even try....but hopefully this stupid ass spending stops...it wont though
One thing IS certain though folks....as everyone else not blinded by spurs-bias says
"you can't win championships with Rasho Nesterovic as your center"
What's better than owning a team that's a threat to win championships every year?
Apparently, it is owning one that that is a threat to win a championship every year and at the same time will garner ownership the maximum amount of the lux tax distribution they are entitled to receive.
I am quite sympathetic to the argument that the Spurs should stop being so damn cheap.
hey MB hook up the total salary for the spurs and total salary for the mavs for last season
i wouldnt know where to find it
But if memory serves....wasnt the Mavs payroll RIDICULOUSLY higher than the Spurs???
I mean do Holt et al. always have to be like this? Suck it up fuckers, we have the greatest player in the world, one of the ALL TIME GREATS, in his prime, put a good fucking team around him and we could finally repeat for gods sake
Ironically, the amnesty clause might turn that heavy flow of tax distribution into a trickle. For instance, if NY and Dallas waive Houston and Finley, that payment drops by a little over 1.5 million each of the next two years.
omgQuote:
Originally Posted by Marcus Bryant
its worse than i remember
its like twice our salary!!!!
god damn holt....grrrrrrr
Yeah. And check out the season ticket prices that go with those salaries. And think what those prices would be if the Knicks weren't such a lameass team.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus Bryant
Agreed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cant_Be_Faded
Hey, Holt. You and the rest of the "hick town cheap owners" will only have the best PF in the game for so long and then he's gone. So don't go "Lakers" on us. They could have had 2-3 more rings but let egos get in the way. You're letting $$ get in the way. So what if you make a few mil $$ less. You can't take it with you to the grave.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainLate
The thing is, the ownership group is comprised of more than just 'hicks'.
I will add that we should not forget that Manu and TP's prices are far less than what they could've been. I'm sure most NBA owners would have no problem going over the lux tax threshold to ensure this roster and coaching staff had what it needed to remain a championship team.
The Spurs are milking the arena deal and the lux tax system for all it's worth. No surprise there. Well, at least for some of us.
holt is not a fool
he runs it like his business (tracker business)
he is a smart business man
you may call him cheap but his plan seems to be working well
you can not fault the titles
Quote:
Originally Posted by ducks
:spin
Vintage ducks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChumpDumper
I do.
Compared to TD- No way in Hell
Compared to Rash and Nazr I would say Mr Finesse :lol
I believe he shoots over 50% lifetime 2 pointers
and about the same from the Free Throw Line :lol