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Started yesterday. Official site www.u-21.com.ar
Yesterday results
Group A
Australia 94
Greece 81
Argentina 71
Israel 58
Canada 20
Iran 00 (Iran decided not to show up for this tournament and blamed it on some Visa problems)
Group B
Slovenia 63
Nigeria 54
China 50
USA 117
Lituania 97
Puerto Rico 81
How did Canada score twenty points if there wasn't a game? Weird.Quote:
Canada 20
Iran 00 (Iran decided not to show up for this tournament and blamed it on some Visa problems)
Wow.Quote:
China 50
USA 117
Quote:
Originally Posted by danyel
So how did Canada score 20?
20 - 0 is the FIBA reglamented score when the other team doesnt show up.
Official site kinda sucks, heres another link http://www.fibaamericas.com/torneos1...p?t=PHCLYUFIPT
CAN 20 Iran 00, perhaps it is some FIBA's rule ... I'll try to check it
I think it means Iran loss due to forfeit and that's the official FIBA score given when a forfeit occurs.
There are other sports that do something similar to that when a team forfeits...They do it that way in the Olympics as well.
yes, it used to be 2-0 if i remember correctly...Quote:
Originally Posted by whottt
danyel what's the story on Carlos Sandes? He's a forward but is he a little short for that position? Undrafted? He's property of Tau. Is he locked up forever like Scola? Also do you know anything about Matias Nocedal, a 15 yo Argentine who supposedly Tau is going after with another of those 10 year deals?
are they gonna televise some of these games? I'm guessing not but it would be nice if they did.
I'm thinking Iran didn't play because of Israel being there and the tensions between the two countries.
To me, that's a bs excuse.Quote:
Originally Posted by Solid D
Yeah, most people in the media are thinking the same, they were in the same group so they were going to play against each other.Quote:
Originally Posted by Solid D
I also think it might be related with Argentina, who hosts the tournament, has asked interpol to seek and capture several iranian diplomats who are thought to be related to the AMIA, a jewish comunity center, bombing in 1994.
I don't think he is undersized for SF, he is 6-7 (2.01m) a little taller than Manu. He also has very good ballhandling skills, and can rebound. I have no idea what his contract terms with TAU are. Shouldnt he be included in next years draft? if he gets drafted, since he is 21yrs old now?Quote:
Originally Posted by picnroll
About Nocedal, I haven't heard much about him, I know he was with Basketball without borders here in Buenos Aires, and I think in Brazil too. Wouldn't be surprised if he ends up signing for either TAU or Pamesa Valencia, they end up signing most players from here.
OT: I was reading about how Tau runs their team financially. They make the Spurs look like pikers. Basically the NBA foots the bill on their player contracts from the buyouts of guys like Nocioni, Maciwhaterverits, Calderon and eventually Scola and Splitter.
The new CBA is going to kill teams drafting and bringing over Euros. Givony on DraftExpress.com has a nice article on the changing face of Euro - NBA basketball dynamics.
Great article picnroll, thanks for posting it. It really puts things into perspective.
What does the new CBA have to do with it? They actually increased the amount that NBA teams can pay in a buyout from 350K to 500K.Quote:
Originally Posted by picnroll
Read the article. It does many things, creates many restricitons that Euros are not subject to, a few:
1) They can sign players at any age, i.e. 15
2) There is no limit to what they can pay, length of contract, etc.
3) They can renegotiate a contract at any time.
The article addresses that. As a summary it says that european players might not be jumping to the NBA due to several factors:
- The fact that they will be playing their rookie contracts almost for free (if you take away the buyout they have to pay from their own pocket, US national and state taxes, etc) against the money they are being offered in Europe (Fran Vazquez apparently working a 10 million NET contract for the next 4 years). Euro teams dont have a salary cap, buyout or contract length restrictions.
- Ego factors. Playing as a 3rd stringer, trash minutes in a lottery team against playing a starting position for a team that might could go deep into the Euroleague finals.
- Fellow european players that didn't succeed (Darko, Skita, etc...) and didn't get to sign that 2nd contract that might be better than what they could make in Europe. Against playing in your home country, or just a few hours away from it, playing far less games a season, etc.
If you dont take into considerations the "NBA dream playing in the best league with the best players" it really doesnt make that much sense for them to go play in the NBA.
Actually, I did read the article. Truth is that the restrictions you mention that NBA teams have and Euros don't were already factors under the old CBA. Yes, the new CBA did raise the age limit, which might be a problem, but most Euro players are not coming over here as 18 year old rookies anyway, and yes the max contract length did just get shorter, but again, what Euro rookie has ever had a 7 year contract? If you see less Euro players in the NBA in future years, don't try to blame it on the new CBA. The article mostly dealt with the factors that danyel just listed in his post, none of which will be exacerbated by the new CBA. In fact, the increase in the buy-out limit may help on rookie contracts.Quote:
Originally Posted by picnroll
A 10 year Euro contract may seem dumb to us and it may seem dumb to a 25 year old Scola but dangle a ten year contract of guaranteed money in the millions to a 15 year old who may or may not progress, who may or may not suffer a career ending injury at 18, and it probably doesn't seem like such a bad idea to them. So shorter contracts with less guaranteed money only offered to even older players per the NBA and its CBA means better players will be locked up by Euro teams well into their career.
btw I'm not advocating that the NBA should change but they are at a disadvantage. But don't be surprised when someday a 15 or 16 year old LeBron James signs with a Euro team. It almost happened in soccer with Freddy Adu where these things are the norm.
In edit:
I agree BronxCowboy that most were in place, just that the new CBA while addressing financial issues from a team/owners perspective that they view as a financial threat haven't addressed, in fact have somewhat exacerbated, a "threat" that is arising from foreign teams to the NBA as a whole. I suspect that in the future this will become an increasing concern that the NBA rules are putting the NBA at a competitve disadvantaage in attracting talent.Quote:
Truth is that the restrictions you mention that NBA teams have and Euros don't were already factors under the old CBA.
I agree that the new CBA does not exacerbate any of the issues, but it doesn't address them either.
More european prospects will rather choose to stay playing in Europe, and be locked down by their teams, as picnroll says, but it might also mean that European leagues, in some years, might become stronger and more popular, and might start attracting players from around the world even more than the NBA, offering long lucrative contracts to 18 year old players that can't be drafted.
Just think what kind of deal a strong whealthy team like CSKA Moscow might offer to someone just right out of high school in the US, or to the next Yao Ming.
I completely agree that the NBA is at a disadvantage and that the new CBA did little to address the problems; just making the point that these have been longstanding issues. Probably the CBA should have been adjusted to address this issue, but the problem lies more in the basic differences between the way the NBA and other leagues do business than in any changes made to the CBA.
Speaking of Iran, whatever happened to that 7'9 Iranian who declared for the draft a couple seasons ago?
I forgot his name. Last name started with an 'M' or something ...
My favorite part is where they refuse to play Israel. Their countries don't like each other so they are going to forfeit?Quote:
Iran sues Argentina - Aug. 6, 2005 - by Mahin Gorgy
The story of Iran u21 team had a sad finish. They didn’t get the visa and lost the prestigious championship in the world.
Iran got a sear last year in Tehran as the champion of Asia. They start training since last winter. They just had long term training in Tehran and had some games with the Iranian clubs.
But after falling to get visa for men U 21 World Championship in Argentina, Iran Basketball Federation announced officially that they will sue Argentina.
In an interview Mahmood Mashhoon said to ISNA News Agency that Iran will sue Argentina: “we have practiced since last year and we spent a lot of money for our team, we have very well prepared team so on different letters to FIBA emphasized on that, now we not only want FIBA react on this matter but also we want to sue them. We wrote to WABA and FIBA ASIA about this matter, both was shocked.”
While Iran claims they get everything on the right time and Argentina didn’t want to give them visa, an official member in Argentina’s embassy in Tehran quoted they only follows the rules: the Iranian ref got his visa without any problem because he applied for his visa a month before,”
None of the Iranian officials has talked about it so far. Before going to Argentina, basketball officials said we accept all penalties but we won’t play Israel at all. Iran basketball federation expects hard days. The shadow of suspension follows them. No one can predict what will happen? The next trip is Doha where the best 3 teams will get the tickets of playing in 2006 Men World championship in Japan. Will Iran show up as the champion of West Asia or lose his chance?
Nice.
Jabir Rouzbahani, was his name I think...
Ah yes, good memory. I wonder if he's playing ball anywhere now.
I don't see it as being that big of a deal or that much of a change from the way things were already.
It seems to me that the biggest deal involves the NBA limit on buyouts...I don't really understand why that limit is there myself...and it's kind of a pain in the butt.
But some of that stuff is just common sense...
The league that pays the most money is going to end up the best league...with agents and early year deals having a slight but not total impact on that.
But to me it looks like the Euroleagues are headed down a road of competitive imbalance, the haves and the have nots. And while that may be great for the haves...eventually the have nots will go under and the haves won't have anyone to play...that already happens in Europe from time to time and this is more likely to exacerbate the situation. So either the Euroleagues will become more regulated, or else most of them will go under and the survivors will wind up joining the NBA...which is probably something Stern would like anyway.
I don't see it as a big deal...the Euro players that don't get PT over here, usually aren't good enough to get PT over here....Larry Brown excepted...talent rules the day in the NBA. If the Euroleagues start paying a bunch of 18 year old huge guranteed longterm deals they are going to run into the same problems the NBA teams did...the red and a bunch of guys not earning what they are worth. IF the agents start acting too much in their own best interest instead of their clients...they are going to run into a shortage of clients. It's a small world now and eventually the players will figure out who is acting in their best interest.
But again...it all boils down to money...the league paying out the most money to players is ultimately going to wind up with the best players...sooner, or later. Agents be damned. As it should be. Those that stay over there out of a Nationalistic sense would do so anyway, and more power to them.
I'd think European basketball financial structure is or would evolve along the lines of European soccer. I don't know many of the nuances of European soccer financial structure but I think some similarities with basketball already exist.
I'm not sure there are huge buy-outs in European soccer. At the end of the day, rules in Europe will have to change, or players around the world will have to get smarter. 10 yr contracts are an abomination.
Yes there are, Figo was bought out from Barcelona on a 70 million buyout close or something close to that. Lionel Messi, from Barcelona, has a 150 million buyout.
I guess the differene with the NBA is that teams are (i) allowed to buy them out, and (ii) are not subject to caps.
I think another difference is that players can be sold in soccer. Don't know if that applies to European basketball. For instance if same rules applied in the NBA as Euro soccer Duncan's contract could be sold by Holt to NY for $150 million with NY having no cap limitations. Boy would that piss Marcus Bryant off.
Picnroll...you overlook something....European Soccer has no one that is really interested in competing with it...the Euroleagues do.
The Euroleagues won't evolve like Soccer did for the same reason the NBA isn't going to evolve like the NFL did.
Two major competitors is going to equal some big money flying....all the teams will simply not be able to keep up and in a spending contest the NBA is going to win it every time except for a powerful team here or there...And Stern has his eye on Europe, he wants NBA teams there, don't be surprised if there is a merger somewhere down the road...it's even more attractive for him to be able to do it with previously established teams....because the fan base is already built in.
I predict that by the time it is all said and done you will see some of the powerful Eurpean teams turn into NBA franchises...and the NBA will end up being the worlds first truly global league.
As far as the current situation...all the NBA has to do is raise the rookie scale and remove the cap on buyouts...and they are again holding the upper hand.
The new CBA just made the rules for 1st rounders more onerous, so don't look for things to improve there.
There are more potential powerful big market teams in Europe than the US. London, Paris, Berlin, Munich, Rome, Madrid, Barcelona, Moscow just to begin with. Hell CSKA is owned by the state oil industry, that makes Allen look like a pauper. I won't say if but when European basketabll consolidates into a multi-national Euroleague there will be plenty of Euros to throw at players.
I'm sure Stern and his minions are plotting as we type on how to extend NBA influence overseas. And I'm just as sure there are a bunch of FIBA beurocrats living high of the hog that have no intention of letting Stern crash their party. It will be interesting to see how it plays out.
That will work for a while. but the shortening of contracts to two years guaranteed is a negtaive in inducing players to sign with the NBA. I suspect there will need to be adjustments before thsi CBA runs it's full course.Quote:
As far as the current situation...all the NBA has to do is raise the rookie scale and remove the cap on buyouts...and they are again holding the upper hand.
The difference is that the NBA players union is unheard of for a sports league. I understand MLB and NFL (not a fan of either since I was 12) have unions, but nothing like the salary cap?
Even the concept of a "draft" is a little whacky, I mean, I understand the purpose of it, but in almost every other professional sports league, instead of helping out the teams that finish on the end of the table, they get relegated to a lower division. The top teams on the other hand either ascend divisions or qualify for special cups and tournament where they get huge amounts of TV money, not to mention attract top-flight players. A soccer player can be bought and sold, even put on a loan, almost like a slave (sometimes a very highly paid one. but the majority- all the division 2 and 3s of the world- will often make an average salary relative to their economy, and often their club will have financial problems and delays in pay- sometimes even the big teams have this problem).
I think on the whole the players union is postive for the league but there are definitely measures that seem out of place and I am sure that just as there are vets seeking to protect their jobs from 18 yr olds, there are vets seeking to protect themselves from foreigners
USA has been knocked out of the competition by Canada in the Quarter Finals, in shocking result. The U.S. team cruised in the group stage, winning all their games by big differences, but in the first game of the Quarter Finals, the Canadians produced the biggest upset of the tournament so far.
In the other game of the afternoon, Israel trashed a very poor Chinese team. This game is not for the quarter finals, but for the 9th. place qualification.Quote:
MAR DEL PLATA (FIBA U21 World Championship) - Canada's Levon Kendall revealed on Friday that his 40-point haul in the 93-90 overtime win over arch-rivals the United States was the highlight of his career so far and of the FIBA U21 World Championship 2005 in Argentina.
However, the 21-year-old, who has just finished his sophomore year with the University of Pittsburgh, is already looking forward to the next challenge and believes Canada can go on and win the title.
Speaking to PA Sport just minutes after his stunning performance had sunk the USA, the 6'9" forward was still elated.
"I am pretty excited," said Kendall, who in addition to pouting in 40 points also hauled down 12 rebounds.
"It's definitely the biggest game I've had and especially with it being against the United States - they are our big neighbours and its always nice to beat them.
"It's important to beat them whatever the occasion."
Kendall, who made 14 from 20 in regular play and converted two from two three-pointers, insisted Canada had never been overawed by the challenge of taking on the sport's mother country.
"We knew we had to believe in ourselves and not be intimidated and keep our levels high," he said.
"We knew we had to be aggressive and to match up - we had to be pretty close to perfect to win.
"We were not scared and it was pretty good to beat the famous jersey."
Kendall feels settled in the Canada team and has no problems doubling up with his duties with the Panthers, the Pittsburgh team.
"Quite a few have been with the (Canada) team for three of four years now," said Kendall. "We are all coming together now."
Kendall believes recent events have shown that the tide is turning and the United States are no longer the dominant force they were.
His compatriot, Phoenix Suns point guard Steve Nash clinched the NBA's MVP award last season, while Argentina were crowned Olympic champions and Yugoslavia lifted the FIBA World Championship crown.
"Definitely that's the case," said Kendall. "There have been changes and I think the game is very different now - there is a little bit more skill now."
He preferred to concentrate on Canada's performance and now wants to forget his heroic show and concentrate on winning the whole tournament.
"I think we have proved we can play with the best and if we keep it solid in defence we can beat anyone," said Kendall.
"We have to beat whoever we play in the semi-finals now whether it is Greece or Puerto Rico - we can celebrate for a few hours but then we must start to look forward to that match."
It was in Grade 10 that Kendall had to choose between soccer and basketball.
"I played a lot of soccer too and about Grade 10 I decided to choose basketball because I could play it indoors and you can play all year around."
Beyond the international arena, he has other dreams too.
"The NBA is obviously my first goal - that's the ultimate but after we are finished here I want to have a successful next year in Pittsburgh."
PA International
Currently in progress:Quote:
MAR DEL PLATA (FIBA U21 World Championship) - Israel defeated China 95-74 in the first game of the race for the 9th place of the FIBA U21 World Championship in Argentina.
"We took this match very seriously, despite felling very disappointed following our result in Córdoba.
"It is not easy for a coach to prepare mentally the team, especially when we lost four games. But these players came here to win," said Arik Shibek, Head Coach of Israel.
Once again China who finished last of Group B, didn't not show much and Israel was able to cruise through the game quite easily.
"There was a real difference between the two teams. In the first half we did not play like we wanted to," added Min Lulei, Head Coach of China.
The Europeans team never found themselves in a dangerous position relaxed a little bit in the last period allowing China to win it 22-15.
Yotam Halperin and Elad Eliyahu both recorded double digit score with 24 and 21 points respectively while best scorers for China were Da Meng and Jie Sun with 22 points each.
Israel will play Nigeria on Saturday 13 August to try to conclude their FIBA World Championship participation with a positive note.
Greece vs. Puerto Rico
Later this evenning:
Australia vs. Slovenia
Argentina vs. Lithuania
Canada?! :wow :wtf :depressedQuote:
Originally Posted by Manu'sMagicalLeftHand
wow
USA vs. Canada Box Score
Greece beat Puerto Rico 88-63, so now there are two semifinalists, Canada and Greece, while the other two will come out of the other two games later this evenning.
Thats ownage. 117 -50 USA over ChinaQuote:
Originally Posted by BronxCowboy
They beat Slovenia by 3 only.Quote:
Originally Posted by Manu'sMagicalLeftHand
I got a kick out of seeing where the Candians play their college ball.
4 Kingsley Costain, Pepperdine
5 Tristan Blackwood, Central Conn. St.
6 Pierre Cespedes, Gonzaga
7 Garry Gallimore, St. Francis Xavier (Nova Scotia)
8 Majak Kou, Loyola (Ill)
9 Kevin Francis, Vincennes (Vincennes, Indiana),
10 Andy Rautins, Syracuse
11 Aaron Doorenkamp, Carleton (Ontario)
12 Neil MacDonald, St. Francis Xavier (Nova Scotia)
13 Wille Galick, Pepperdine
14 Levon Kendall, Pittsburgh
15 Vlad Kuljanin, UNC-Wilmington
Slovenia lost as well. Australia, which hasn't lost a single game yet, was better in a game that ended after an overtime.
Quote:
MAR DEL PLATA (FIBA U21 World Championships) - Australia scored 20 points in overtime and defeated Slovenia by the final of 89-80 in the Quarterfinal Round in the FIBA U21 World Championship celebrated in Mar del Plata.
The game as about highs and lows for both teams, but the game was always at the reach of both teams as they made different rallies to exchange the lead during the game.
The first half ended 38-34 in favor of Slovenia as Sasa Zagorak led with 16 points.
In the third quarter the Australians took control and maintained it until the final quarter. In the mid part of the final quarter they made a 6-0 rally to have a 64-58 advantage.
Slovenia never gave up and made a 7-0 rally and tied the game at 67.
Australia took again the lead but Ziza Zagorc tied the game again with four seconds left to force an overtime period.
In overtime, Australia unleashed a great offensive attack and controlled the game and now goes on into the Semifinals awaiting the winner of the Argentina-Lithuania game.
Slovenia goes to the consolation round against the loser of that game.
Aleksandar Maric led Australia with 21 points and Sasa Zagorak scored 25 in a losing effort.
And Argentina lost too, 76-63 against Lithuania, so screw this tournament!*:lol
ARG vs. LIT Box Score
Quote:
FIBA U21 1/4 Finals - Argentina out
MAR DEL PLATA (FIBA U21 World Championship) - Host Argentina was pulled out tonight of the medal round by the European side of Lithuania 76-63 in the last quarter finals of the FIBA U21 World Championship 2005.
Lithuania took first the lead until Leonardo Mainoldi from Argentina entered in action with 6 points in a row bringing Argentina 16-16 after 3 minutes played in the second quarter.
From that moment on, the game turned into a real physical war.
"It was a great battle on the court and a great game for Argentina.
"Argentinean team has brilliant players, and I am sure that they will be stars in the future. Just in the final quarter we could break Argentinean defense, and theirs fouls and turnovers helped us to reach the victory," Lithuanian head Coach Ramunas Butautas.
From this war Argentina seamed to be the team which could make the most of it, until Lithuania started to break through the tough defense that Argentina had installed.
"Until the third quarter, we could develop the game style that we had prepared.
"We knew that Lithuania based his offensive in the penetrations, so we tried to make a tough defense in the paint," explained Gonzalo Garcia.
The European fired up a bunch of three pointers in the last minutes of the games to clinch the last semi finals spot. The will play Australia which previously defeated Slovenia.
"In the last quarter, they broke us, with their forward's job and a better effectiveness in three points throws. They took advantage of our mistakes, like the turnovers," added Garcia.
*= exception for our Aussie and Canadian posters.
Slovenia, Argentina and USA united . . . in defeat! :lol
We've got a pretty strong team at this one. The future looks good for Aussie basketball and theres a couple of other big names not in attendence. Bogut for one.
Bad luck fellas :lol
The US lost to us?
:lmao
Yes, well done Australia. We always seem to good in these sort of competitions, but then somewhere along the line the players seem to just not get any better. Hopefully this isn't the case with this bunch.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TwoHandJam
:smokin Levon Kendall (Can): 40 points :tu :huh :)
There is an insider report by Andy Katz over at ESPN on the game. From the 1st paragraph, the US team was, "a little tight", which then translated into the loss. Here is the link if anyone has access they can read it. Sorry, I don't have insider.
http://insider.espn.go.com/proxy/pro...%26month%3daug
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katz' Blog
Thanks Kori. The US team beat Puerto Rico 99-79
Playing For Pride, USA U21 Men Push Past Puerto Rico 99-79
With the gold medal out of reach, the U.S. U21 men showed character in rebounding from its quarterfinal loss to Canada and notched a 99-79 victory over Puerto Rico on Saturday afternoon. The U.S. ran out to a 60-35 halftime lead and cruised through the second half for the win, which ups the USA's record to 6-1. Allan Ray and Justin Gray helped pave the way with 17 and 16 points, respectively. More to come!
http://www.usabasketball.com/
Tournament ended yesterday, Lithuania was the champion over Greece.
The US run over Argentina to finish 5th.
MVP
Renaldas Seibutis (LTU)
All-Star 5
Renaldas Seibutis (LTU)
Yotam Halperin (ISR)
Konstantinos Vasileiadis (GRE)
Levon Kendall (CAN)
Loukas Mavrokefalidis (GRE)
Final Ranking:
1. Lithuania
2. Greece
3. Canada
4. Australia
5. USA
6. Argentina
7. Puerto Rico
8. Slovenia
9. Nigeria
10. Israel
11. China
12. Iran