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failure to answer question, duly noted.Quote:
Originally Posted by FuzzyLumpkins
another failure to answer question, again noted.Quote:
He was not the one who made the initial order off of federal land so again besides the point.
The question clearly mentions nothing of Lake Mead and specifically states Nevada. Trifecta of failure to answer noted once again.Quote:
The project again is south of Lake Mead.
You can just bold yes or no, fine with me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TSA
Quote:
Originally Posted by TSA
Your using guilt by association smear tactics. It's a common PR ploy and you are parroting it. Whatever.
I don't think as you do and cannot dumb myself down to binary thinking like that. I also understand the nature of a loaded question. By answering yes or no without qualification it provides the illusion that I agree with the premise that the project south of lake mead has anything to do with this or that Reid's ex-aide is specifically directing this. We get that you want to link it to your political opponents. You want a bridgegate but this doesn't have legs, sorry, Alex.
If something new comes up I will comment but youre being dumb and I don't have the patience for it right now.
The answers were germane.
Your head in the sand is duly noted.Quote:
Originally Posted by FuzzyLumpkins
Reid is a douchebag, and part of the problem. This political class is part of the reason it now takes 20 years for government to act on somebody clearly breaking the law.Quote:
Originally Posted by TSA
If these tactics were being used against someone who was refusing to turn over illegal aliens for deportation, I doubt you would be throwing up "the law" as the ultimate arbiter of wrong and right.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElNono
You would be wrong. I've stated many times that as a legal immigrant, I hate illegal immigration. It's a bullshit shortcut while I had to spend a lot of time and money to do things the right way.Quote:
Originally Posted by SnakeBoy
It's also a completely different thing of what I think about the topic politically (vs legally). I'm fully aware we're surrounded by illegal immigrants, and the demographics dictate that politicos cater to some of these people and their families or be at a disadvantage.
I don't like it, but that doesn't mean I'll stop paying 5% of my federal taxes (or whatever percentage USCIS/DHS takes from the budget), because I know I'll get nailed to the tree of woe.
I have my vote, and that's what I'll use. If I have some extra disposable income and feel strongly enough about it, then I might back up some candidate that thinks alike financially. Those are the tools at my disposal right now.
Nice stealth copy and paste btw.Quote:
Originally Posted by TSA
Why not link your bullshit? Oh because it's http://www.futurnamics.com/about.php that guy.
I think I may pick up his survival gardening book.
Do you have anything more credible? Something this big and survival guy selling 'obama's fault' t-shirts is the only one you can find? That is enough legs for you to decide?
You should be ashamed of your source. You should have better standards for verification than that.
You can tell a lot about a person themselves by what they expect someone else to do.Quote:
Originally Posted by SnakeBoy
I think it's bullshit the DMV charges $50 per car for a card and a license to drive my car every 2 years.... or $120 for a booklet with a photo to travel out of the country...
But nobody in their right mind doesn't pay the fees and expect not to get in trouble when they drive or travel. It's just common sense.
He says he will pay but just not the feds. He wants bigger herds and the feds are saying that the land out there cannot sustain over 150 head. It's a fucking desert.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElNono
He stopped paying when they dropped the allotment to 150 cattle.
https://fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOC...ev3_006519.pdf
Back in the 1970s they mostly had sheep. Mind you its a desert so 1000 cattle is going to have to range over a huge area and destroy all the scrub. He has been ranging outside of his allotment as well.
Maybe he is a descendant of Ted Bunker himself ordained by Brigham Young to settle the lands as promised by God but honestly fuck him. It's not his land.
Where the fuck is CosmicCowboy in this? He's has stock. I would be interested to hear his take.
Fair enough. I don't agree with your view but I accept that you are be intellectually honest. I don't think that applies to some of the other posters on this thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElNono
Agreed. TSA is all over the map in this thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by SnakeBoy
Found a copy of the latest court order:
http://www.blm.gov/pgdata/etc/medial...%2010-9-13.pdfQuote:
Finally, the Court finds that Bundy’s objections to the United States’ Motion, many of which have been disposed of in prior proceedings, are without merit. The Court has stated unequivocally on numerous occasions that it has jurisdiction to hear this case, and that the Allotment is owned by the United States and managed by the DOI through the BLM and the NPS. Bundy’s repeated suggestions to the contrary are entirely unavailing.
U.S. Agency Backs Down In Standoff With Cattle Rancher
Cliven Bundy, a Nevada rancher who refuses to pay grazing fees for the use of federally protected land, seems to have won at least a reprieve in his fight against the Bureau of Land Management. The agency has reportedly rounded up hundreds of Bundy's cows and impounded them.
The BLM announced Saturday that it will stop its operation targeting Bundy's cattle, citing safety concerns. But officials maintain that the rancher still owes more than $1 million in unpaid fees that date back more than 20 years.
"The BLM will continue to work to resolve the matter administratively and judicially," the agency said in a news release issued today.
The agency's partial withdrawal comes as a heated debate continues over Bundy's use of the land – and over the BLM's decision to take the cattle. The rancher and his family say the government went too far in its efforts; last week, he with the agency over the situation.
"People are getting tired of the federal government having unlimited power," Bundy's wife, Carol Bundy later .
One of Bundy's sons was arrested the day after the roundup began in a rural area about 80 miles northeast of Las Vegas on April 5; another son was reportedly tased during a clash with police Wednesday.
the BLM wants to proceed with the sale of the cattle already gathered during the roundup but is reportedly willing to share the revenue from the sale with Bundy.
"People are getting tired of the federal government having unlimited power," Bundy's wife, Carol Bundy later .
( :lol Bitch, a lot of us are getting tired of you rednecks having unlimited stupidity)
http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/...m_campaign=app
So Bundy has had his cows confiscated. Looks like the govt will sell them to cover some of the unpaid $1M. 900 x $1000, getting pretty close. They ought to stick also him with the cost of enforcement, like rape victims have to pay for their rape kits.
There are numerous types of reports that show the slow encroachment of taking away his grazing lands. When the BLM first took his family's land, the agreement was there would be no grazing fees. I'll bet the grazing rights were continuous until a sale, and the government is trying other BS to let Harry gReid's son put a solar plant there.Quote:
Originally Posted by boutons_deux
The BLM never 'took' his lands. It has always been federal land since we forced Mexico to sell it to us for $15m in 1847. Bunker didn't come down from Salt Lake until decades later.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Cobra
Let me guess you think 3 federal circuit court judges and an appeals panel are wrong. Bunker actually does have land farther north of the allotment.
Why does the pro-Bundy cabal insist on making shit up?
I'm not "pro-Bundy." I simply see that our government is increasingly getting out of hand. There are reports that may or may not be true.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChumpDumper
Are you suggesting that the government doesn't make shit up? Or that you know for facts the merits of this case one way or another? I'm not.
I do find the alleged ties to Reid Jr. and the solar farm for that land alarming. Don't you?
Jim Crow was the law faggots! Always obey the laws!
why doesn't obama bail him out?
I am flat out saying that people are making shit up here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Cobra
No. It's government. How is Rick Perry a multimillionaire after only having government jobs his entire life?Quote:
I do find the alleged ties to Reid Jr. and the solar farm for that land alarming. Don't you?
LBJ?
Nixon?
Same shit.
Don't feign outrage now just because your political ideology demands it.
I do find the fact that this dude has been freeloading off the government for 20 years alarming. Don't you?
He wasn't freeloading, only his cows were. He should have gotten them EBT cards tbh.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChumpDumper
You complaining about the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo that gave the US ownership of the land or just property rights in general?Quote:
Originally Posted by Ignignokt
I am going to go out on a limb that you are so ignorant that you do not know what I am saying.
Password mysteriously changed this morning. PM following asking to not discuss this further. Anyone else?
^explain
:popcorn
Probably related to that ridiculous wingnut website you were cruising for content tbh.
Looks like Bundy wins.
Quote:
Cliven Bundy Ranch Dispute: Feds Release Cattle, Say ‘Escalating Tensions’ Caused it
Federal land managers say “escalating tensions” led them to release all 400 or so head of cattle rounded up on public land in southern Nevada from a rancher who has refused to recognize their authority.
Bureau of Land Management Chief Neil Kornze announced an abrupt halt to the weeklong roundup just hours before the release.
“Based on information about conditions on the ground and in consultation with law enforcement, we have made a decision to conclude the cattle gather because of our serious concerns about the safety of employees and members of the public,” Kornze said in a statement.
Hundreds of states’ rights protesters, including militia members, showed up at corrals outside Mesquite to demand the animals’ return to rancher Cliven Bundy. Some protesters were armed with handguns and rifles at the corrals and at an earlier nearby rally.
Las Vegas Police Lt. Dan Zehnder said the showdown was resolved with no injuries and no violence. Clark County Sheriff Doug Gillespie was able to negotiate a resolution after talking withBundy, he said.
The fight between Bundy and the Bureau of Land Management widened into a debate about states’ rights and federal land-use policy. The dispute that ultimately triggered the roundup dates to 1993, when the bureau cited concern for the federally protected tortoise in the region. The bureau revoked Bundy’s grazing rights after he stopped paying grazing fees and disregarded federal court orders to remove his animals.
Kornze’s announcement came after Bundy repeatedly promised to “do whatever it takes” to protect his property and after a string of raucous confrontations between his family members and supporters and federal agents during the weeklong operation.
Bundy did not immediately respond to requests for comment.
Republican Nevada Gov. Brian Sandoval issued a statement praising the agency for its willingness to listen to the state’s concerns. He earlier criticized the agency for creating “an atmosphere of intimidation” and trying to confine protesters to a fenced-in “First Amendment area” well away from the sprawling roundup area.
“The safety of all individuals involved in this matter has been my highest priority,” Sandoval said. “Given the circumstances, today’s outcome is the best we could have hoped for.”
Nevada’s congressional delegation urged the protesters to be calm and to leave the area.
“The dispute is over, the BLM is leaving, but emotions and tensions are still near the boiling point, and we desperately need a peaceful conclusion to this conflict,” U.S. Sen. Dean Heller, R-Nev., said in a statement. “I urge all the people involved to please return to your homes and allow the BLM officers to collect their equipment and depart without interference.”
The 400 cows gathered during the roundup were short of the BLM’s goal of 900 cows that it says have been trespassing on U.S. land without required grazing permits for over 20 years.
Bundy, 67, doesn’t recognize federal authority on land he insists belongs to Nevada. His Mormon family has operated a ranch since the 1870s near the small town of Bunkerville and the Utah and Arizona lines.
“Good morning America, good morning world, isn’t it a beautiful day in Bunkerville?” Bundy told a cheering crowd after his cattle were released, according to the Las Vegas Review-Journal.
The crowd protesting Saturday recited the pledge of allegiance, and many offered prayers. Others waved placards reading, “This land is your land,” and “We teach our children not to bully. How do we teach our government not to be big bullies?” according to the newspaper.
It’s the latest skirmish since the 1980s when the Sagebrush Rebellion challenged federal ownership of Nevada rangeland ranchers said was rightfully theirs.
A federal judge in Las Vegas first ordered Bundy to remove his trespassing cattle in 1998. The bureau was implementing two federal court orders last year to remove Bundy’s cattle after making repeated efforts to resolve the matter outside court, Kornze said, adding the rancher has not paid grazing fees in 20 years.
“This is a matter of fairness and equity, and we remain disappointed that Cliven Bundy continues to not comply with the same laws that 16,000 public-lands ranchers do every year,” Kornze said. “After 20 years and multiple court orders to remove the trespass cattle, Mr. Bundy owes the American taxpayers in excess of $1 million. The BLM will continue to work to resolve the matter administratively and judicially.”
http://www.theepochtimes.com/n3/6186...ons-caused-it/
Don't tell us what oyu think the PM means. Post it so we can see for ourselves.Quote:
Originally Posted by TSA
Nullius in verba
who sent you the PM?Quote:
Originally Posted by TSA
I think the BLM is a fucked up organization and I think the rancher was wrong. If he is gonna graze his cattle on BLM land he should have continued to pay the fee. He doesn't have a "right" go graze his cattle for free.Quote:
Originally Posted by FuzzyLumpkins
At the same time I do think that over zealous environmental lobby is driving BLM policy. They don't give a fuck about the desert tortoise. They just don't want ranchers having access to BLM land. If they don't want cattle in certain areas of BLM land to protect the tortoise then they need to put up fences. Cows don't know when they are walking on "protected" land.
I think the BLM is a fucked up organization and I think the rancher was wrong. If he is gonna graze his cattle on BLM land he should have continued to pay the fee. He doesn't have a "right" to graze his cattle for free.Quote:
Originally Posted by FuzzyLumpkins
At the same time I do think that over zealous environmental lobby is driving BLM policy. They don't give a fuck about the desert tortoise. They just don't want ranchers having access to BLM land. If they don't want cattle in certain areas of BLM land to protect the tortoise then they need to put up fences. Cows don't know when they are walking on "protected" land.
"over zealous environmental lobby is driving BLM policy"
link for your think?
we know you don't give a fuck about the insanely over zealous BigCarbon/BigMeat lobbies.
GFY
Wild horses targeted for roundup in Utah rangeland clash
A Utah county, angry over the destruction of federal rangeland that ranchers use to graze cattle, has started a bid to round up federally protected wild horses it blames for the problem in the latest dustup over land management in the U.S. West.
Close to 2,000 wild horses are roaming southern Utah's Iron County, well over the 300 the U.S. Bureau of Land Management has dubbed as appropriate for the rural area's nine designated herd management zones, County Commissioner David Miller said.
County officials complain the burgeoning herd is destroying vegetation crucial to ranchers who pay to graze their cattle on the land, and who have already been asked to reduce their herds to cope with an anticipated drought.
Wild horse preservation groups say any attempt to remove the horses would be a federal crime.
On Thursday county workers, accompanied by a Bureau of Land Management staffer, set up the first in a series of metal corrals designed to trap and hold the horses on private land abutting the federal range until they can be moved to BLM facilities for adoption.
"There's been no management of the animals and they keep reproducing," Miller said in an interview. "The rangeland just can't sustain it."
The conflict reflects broader tension between ranchers, who have traditionally grazed cattle on public lands and held sway over land-use decisions, and environmentalists and land managers facing competing demands on the same land.
http://news.yahoo.com/wild-horses-ta...--finance.html
LMAO @ adopting wild horses. The horse market sucks. People can't even give away broke horses.
could ship them to eastern Europe, eg Poland, for human consumptionQuote:
Originally Posted by CosmicCowboy
They would have to be shipped alive to Mexico first. All the equine kill plants in the US were forced to close by the government.Quote:
Originally Posted by boutons_deux
Local and state governments to be precise -- before a federal ban.Quote:
Originally Posted by CosmicCowboy
And last I read, it's legal to do again but plants are running into NIMBY opposition.
I was told not to discuss any of it and can no longer access my account.Quote:
Originally Posted by Winehole23
Sounds not serious.
Fairly serious is all I will say about the matter. Received a similar PM on another site as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChumpDumper
Thanks. You have practical experience in the topic and your perspective is good stuff.Quote:
Originally Posted by CosmicCowboy
Seeing that you already broke the command several times and are still alive I will have to say that you are about as banned as SA210.Quote:
Originally Posted by KingsFanWithoutName
My recomendation is to continue talking about it with us and complaining about the people you aren't supposed to discuss. The worst that can happen is they kill you. It's a win-win.
You dislike me so much you wish me dead? You are a fucking scum.Quote:
Originally Posted by FuzzyLumpkins
Fuck the Feds dude, talk about that shit all day don't cower to those bitches. If they send an agent to your house kill him. We are now in a war, choose your side soldier.
Shut up, monkey.Quote:
Originally Posted by KingsFanWithoutName
Now it sounds like pure bullshit.Quote:
Originally Posted by KingsFanWithoutName
what were you told not to discuss and why would you care?Quote:
Originally Posted by KingsFanWithoutName
Well my only position on this topic was that I oppose the aggressive police tactics that were being used. After listening to Hannity interview with Bundy and his sons I'm going to change my mind. I don't think there is any other way to deal with them...these dudes are fucking nuts.
http://www.wnd.com/2014/04/sheriff-f...raid-on-ranch/
Quote:
SHERIFF: FEDS STRATEGIZE FOR 'RAID' ON RANCH
Warning follows threat from Harry Reid that grazing dispute 'not over'
Published: 4 hours ago
The executive director of the Constitutional Sheriffs and Peace Officers Association says his sources inside the federal government warn that Washington’s weekend retreat in a dispute over grazing land in Nevada was only a move to distract attention and diffuse tensions, because a raid on the family’s ranch still is planned.
And there probably would be violence involved, said Richard Mack, the former sheriff of Grisham County, Ariz.
“I don’t think it would be possible” to launch a raid without violence, he told WND Monday. “I don’t think the Bundys would lie down and be taken.”
He cited the vow by Sen. Harry Reid, D-Nev., that the confrontation was far from over, despite the weekend’s retreat by armed gunmen working for federal agencies.
Reid on Monday told KRNV-TV in Reno: “It’s not over. We can’t have an American people that violate the law and then just walk away from it. So it’s not over.”
The grazing-land conflict has been developing for decades.
Cliven Bundy, who ranches in Clark County, and members of his extended family have grazed cattle on land there for more than a century. He stopped paying federal grazing fees years ago, contending his operation existed before the federal government was there.
But the standoff reached a boiling point one week ago as hundreds of federal agents and allies surrounded Bundy’s ranch and were faced with citizen resistance, both armed and unarmed.
The Associated Press said the U.S. Bureau of Land Management decided over the weekend to stop rounding up Bundy’s cattle and release animals agents already had seized.
BLM chief Neil Kornze said in a statement: “Based on information about conditions on the ground and in consultation with law enforcement, we have made a decision to conclude the cattle gather because of our serious concerns about the safety of employees and members of the public.”
Mack, a longtime sheriff, told WND that Reid’s statements are beyond the pale.
“That kind of stupidity, where he puts federal regulations and policies of bureaucrats ahead of a family in his state that has done no wrong or committed a crime,” Mack said.
He charged that it is Reid who is destroying his own state’s ranching industry as well as the U.S. Constitution. The sheriff chided the senator for making statements about abiding by laws.
“Isn’t that amazing? The biggest crook in Washington,” Mack said.
On the issue of a raid, he said: “That’s what we have heard. It’s not confirmed. People we had on the inside told us the BLM still is considering raiding the Bundy ranch. We’re going to keep in touch with them, protect them, pray for them.”
Details that are uncovered will be posted on the CSPOA website, he said.
Mack said his organization is part of an effort to save America.
“Yes, America is in deep, deep trouble. The good news is that there is hope,” Mack said. “We do not have to stand by and watch while America is destroyed from within. If our counties, cities, and states and all local officers keep their oaths to protect us from tyranny, we can win this battle to take our country back.”
As WND reported, an estimated 200 armed officers of the BLM had been deployed to Bundy’s property in Bunkerville, Nev., 80 miles northeast of Las Vegas, charging the rancher has been in violation of a law that aims to protect an endangered desert tortoise. The BLM also said Bundy owes more than $1 million in grazing fees to the federal government.
But Bundy found support from the governor and other prominent political leaders along with a host of protesters from other states, including fellow cattle ranchers and private armed militias.
A Montana militia member, Jim Lardy, told KLAS-TV in Las Vegas his group, Operation Mutual Aid, was prepared to “provide armed response.”
He said he was not afraid to shoot, if necessary.
“They have guns. We need guns to protect ourselves from the tyrannical government,” Lardy said.
Other militia members were joining him, he said: “There is many more coming.”
Nevada’s Republican Gov. Brian Sandoval said the federal government’s tactics allowed the tensions to nearly erupt in armed violence.
“No cow justifies the atmosphere of intimidation which currently exists nor the limitation of constitutional rights that are sacred to all Nevadans,” Sandoval said. “The BLM needs to reconsider its approach to this matter and act accordingly.”
Cliven Bundy’s son, Ammon Bundy, told WND earlier that federal authorities had not been merely relocating the cattle but were engaged in actions that killed some animals.
“They are flying helicopters over the herd to chase them,” Ammon Bundy said. “It was over 90 degrees here today, and the cattle can’t run very far in this heat before collapsing. This is especially true for the young calves. We have a lot of them being born because it is springtime, and they don’t have the strength to keep up with their mothers when they are running. The cattle then become overheated and die.”
Cliven Bundy is the last rancher operating in Clark County, where he’s been grazing his cattle on a 600,000-acre portion of land managed by the BLM called Gold Butte. His family, whose ties to the land go back to the 1880s, has been engaged in a dispute since 1993 with the Bureau of Land Management over long-established cattle-grazing rights.
After years of wrangling in the courts, BLM last week secured a federal court order declaring Bundy’s herd to be “trespass cattle” and began removing the animals.
Ammon Bundy said he was with a group of about 50 people “peacefully protesting the removal of the cattle” when “suddenly, 14 units with Rangers came off the mountain – 13 of them were armed ranger vehicles with two rangers per unit.”
He said the protesters went over to see what was in a dump truck, “because we were afraid this might have been a rendering vehicle, and we wanted to know what was in the back of the truck.”
See video of the confrontation with Ammon Bundy and protesters:
The rangers got out of their vehicles and the conflict escalated, he said.
“Things got pretty ugly for awhile. They threw a 65-year-old woman on the ground, they tased me twice and they had dogs out there.”
"aggressive police tactics that were being used"
govt wanted his animals off the property, he wouldn't do it, so the govt did. Not very aggressive, except when the protesters forced the issue.
I wonder if the IRS can garnish his bank account, income to recover the $1M.
I guess the militia assholes think they won and be encouraged to more of the same.
That's the gist I got when he was saying he would pay the fees to the city but not the feds... you might not like the federal government, but when your stance is that they have no authority over you, then yeah, pretty kookooQuote:
Originally Posted by SnakeBoy
yeah they think Nevada is a sovereign nation and the United States is a foreign government.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElNono
The BLM withdraws and the Bundys get the media megaphone on Hannity for their sovereign citizen message.
Meanwhile, shadowy G-men warn TSA to stop posting on a sports-related bulletin board...
from the Nevada State Constitution:Quote:
Originally Posted by SnakeBoy
http://www.leg.state.nv.us/const/nvconst.htmlQuote:
Originally Posted by Article I, Sec: 2.
dickless gun fellators show their wonderful dicklessness
"We were actually strategizing to put all the women up at the front.
If they are going to start shooting, it’s going to be women that are going to be televised all across the world getting shot by these rogue federal officers."
http://thinkprogress.org/justice/201...own-with-feds/
Here are three ways that the federal government might ensure that Bundy and at least some of his armed supporters are brought to justice:
1) Contempt of Court:
The normal sanction when a person subject to a court order refuses to comply with it is contempt of court. Contempt, according to a manual provided to federal prosecutors, is “an act of disobedience or disrespect towards the judicial branch of the government, or an interference with its orderly process.” By law, federal courts may “punish by fine or imprisonment, or both” when someone engages in “[d]isobedience or resistance to its lawful writ, process, order, rule, decree, or command.”
As a general rule, courts must “exercise the least possible power to obtain the desired result,” meaning that a federal judge should not issue a sweeping contempt sanction when lesser sanction will suffice to ensure that the person subject to contempt proceedings complies with the court’s order. Nevertheless, the fact that Bundy was willing to defy a court order for 20 years — and that he could rally supporters willing to put up armed resistance to federal law enforcement to his cause — suggests that he would simply ignore any fines that a court imposed on him. A judge may decide that the best way to convince Bundy that the federal government exists is to jail him until he agrees to comply with the court’s order.
2) Criminal Charges for Threats To Federal Officers
Federal law provides that anyone who “threatens to assault, kidnap, or murder, a United States official, a United States judge [or] a Federal law enforcement officer . . . with intent to impede, intimidate, or interfere with such official, judge, or law enforcement officer while engaged in the performance of official duties, or with intent to retaliate against such official, judge, or law enforcement officer on account of the performance of official duties” may be fined or imprisoned for up to 10 years (although a threat to assault carries a maximum sentence of only 6 years). So, if Bundy or his supporters threatened federal officials or law enforcement officers who were enforcing the court order against him, they could have committed a serious crime.
There is one big caveat to this approach, however. Although the First Amendment permits some laws banning threatening language, under the “True Threat” Doctrine, these bans are only permitted when they target “those statements where the speaker means to communicate a serious expression of an intent to commit an act of unlawful violence to a particular individual or group of individuals.” Moreover, at least one older Supreme Court case suggests that threatening language is not a “true threat” when it is made using conditional language. Thus, for example, if Bundy said something like “if you Feds don’t get off this land in two days, I will kill every last one of you,” that may not constitute a true threat because he placed a condition on what the federal officials would have to do before he killed them.
Among legal scholars, the current state of the True Threat Doctrine is widely viewed as incoherent, so there is some uncertainty about which kinds of threatening statements could form the basis of a prosecution against Bundy and his supporters.
3) Criminal Charges Against Militia Members Who Brought Guns To Nevada
Another federal law provides that “[w]hoever transports or manufactures for transportation in commerce any firearm, or explosive or incendiary device, knowing or having reason to know or intending that the same will be used unlawfully in furtherance of a civil disorder” may be fined or imprisoned for up to five years. This statute could potentially form the basis for criminal charges against some of the militia members who traveled to Nevada with their guns in order to support Bundy. In order to convict someone charged under this law, federal prosecutors would need to prove that the militia member transported their gun with reason to know that it would be used “unlawfully in furtherance of a civil disorder,” so this statute could not be used against someone who had no reason to suspect that they were traveling towards anything other than a peaceful protest. A civil disorder is defined as “any public disturbance involving acts of violence by assemblages of three or more persons, which causes an immediate danger of or results in damage or injury to the property or person of any other individual.”
At least some of Bundy’s supporters made statements to the press suggesting that they fully intended to use their weapons to further such a disorder. One militia member, for example, said that he was at the ranch to provide “armed response,” adding that “[w]e need guns to protect ourselves from the tyrannical government.”
Similarly, a message purporting to be from one militia organization that was published on several right-wing websites announced that “[w]e have made the decision to mobilize to Nevada” and concluded with a fairly explicit statement suggesting that the purpose of this mobilization was to spark a deadly conflict:
:lol “All men are mortal, most pass simply because it is their time, a few however are blessed with the opportunity to chose their time in performance of duty.” :lol
http://thinkprogress.org/justice/201...r-behind-bars/
Fox loves these lawless asshole martyrs, while calling Obama lawless.
LOL these patriots using Al Qaeda tacticsQuote:
Originally Posted by boutons_deux
Smart choice, pussies never could beat al Qaeda tbh.Quote:
Originally Posted by baseline bum
http://theweek.com/article/index/259...the-governmentQuote:
But let's look at Bundy's larger point, that the federal government shouldn't control 87 percent of Nevada and 60 percent of the 12 states in the West. This includes many of the country's most beautiful national parks, forests, and wilderness areas, but also huge swathes of scrub lands, timber forest, and areas with mineral and energy wealth.
http://media.theweek.com/img/generic...Western-US.jpg
Wikimedia Commons
It is sort of an accident of history and because of the whims of Congress that the federal government controls all that land. In the mid-1800s, lawmakers passed laws encouraging settlers to colonize the West, with the idea of carving up the new U.S. territories into privately held parcels. Starting with Theodore Roosevelt, though, U.S. lawmakers started to conserve public lands for the public with the creation of the national parks.
In 1934, Congress created the U.S. Grazing Service to manage cattle and sheep grazing on public lands, and in 1946 the Grazing Service was combined with the General Land Office to create the BLM. In 1976, Congress passed the Federal Land Policy and Management Act, formally setting aside federal public lands for multiple public uses, including recreation, ranching, and mining. The BLM, Forest Service, and National Park Service have been juggling those competing interests ever since.
For Bundy to have the right to graze his cattle in Gold Butte/Bunkerville area, the U.S. government would have to sell him the land, cede it to Nevada, get the area's endangered species removed from the endangered list, and/or lose to Bundy in a court of law. What seems certain is that this standoff isn't over. Even if Bundy and the BLS reach an amicable settlement, the inherent conflict will always fester between environmentalists and hikers who want to preserve the land and ranchers, miners, foresters, and motor-vehicle enthusiasts who want to be a little rougher on the public lands.
freeloading, America hating takers with a victim mentality expect special treatment from the government.Quote:
Originally Posted by baseline bum
and get it
Why Bundy Ranch Thinks America's Sheriffs Can Disarm The Feds
http://a5.img.talkingpointsmemo.com/...omaohjzdse.jpg
Nevada cattle rancher Cliven Bundy, whose dispute with the Bureau of Land Management spurred a tense standoff between armed anti-government activists and federal officials over the weekend, had some strikingly specific directions for sheriffs across the country Monday night.
“Disarm the federal bureaucrats," Bundy said in an interview with Fox News's Sean Hannity. He had been asked to respond to Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid's assertion that the Bundy Ranch standoff (as it is now officially known on Wikipedia) was "not over."
Bundy had already asked his local sheriff to arrest the BLM officials who were rounding up his cattle, but he directed his new message to "every county sheriff in the United States."
Bundy's statement brought to the forefront a theory that some on the far right have held for decades: that local sheriffs are ordained with an immense amount of power, going beyond that of even federal authorities.
In the Bundy Ranch dispute, that theory is the driving ideology of some of the groups that have rallied to the rancher's side. Those include the Constitutional Sheriffs and Peace Officers Association and the Oath Keepers, whose members are law enforcement officials and military who have pledged to defend the Constitution against government overreach.
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/muckrak...+%28TPMNews%29
Seems to be a lot sickos, deranged, damaged people, sadists, killers, gun fellators, etc who spend their lives in the military or law enforcement, or prison guards.
one of America's best ever sheriffs:
http://www.craveonline.com/images/st...von_Little.jpg
Where the white women at?
Facts that disprove conspiracy theory about Harry Reid, Cliven Bundy and solar power
STEVE MARCUS
Bunkerville rancher Cliven Bundy, left, and U.S. Sen. Harry Reid, D-Nev., right.
By Karoun Demirjian (contact)
Thursday, April 17, 2014 | 2 a.m.
WASHINGTON —
JUSTIN BOWEN
Laughlin and Bullhead City, Ariz., as seen in 2011.
Future Uncertain in Bundy-BLM Dispute
Launch slideshow »
The conspiracy theory about Sen. Harry Reid started soon after the Cliven Bundy story went national.
The theory: The Senate majority leader masterminded the takeover of Bundy’s cattle in Gold Butte to clear land for a solar facility that Chinese company ENN hoped to build in Southern Nevada. That thought appears to have originated at the blog Godfather Politics and was picked up by writers in more mainstream conservative media outlets, such as NewsMax and the Washington Times. The story also suggested that Reid had his former aide, Neil Kornze, do his dirty work as the week-old Bureau of Land Management director.
Reid’s spokeswoman, Kristen Orthman, said any connection between Bundy and the solar project is “bogus.” She added: “People find anything to label him as, or to connect things to that aren’t connectable. … If it wasn’t this, they would be talking about something else.”
It’s true that Reid had been working on a solar project in Nevada. But based on the facts, the rest of the theory doesn’t pass the smell test. Here’s why:
Geography: Bundy’s ranch is in Bunkerville, about 75 miles northeast of Las Vegas. The land that Reid identified for the solar plant was about 90 miles south of Las Vegas in Laughlin. That puts the Bundy ranch and the solar plant site about a three-hour drive apart. They’re simply not in the same part of the state.
Another project comes close. But not that close: Bundy’s home in the Mojave desert is closer to the Dry Lake Solar Energy Zone, a corridor that has been slated for renewable energy development. The BLM is planning a mitigation strategy that may stretch toward the area where Bundy has been grazing his cows. But even there, the maps don’t match up closely enough to suggest that Bundy’s specific grazing land was the intended site of a solar facility. Also, the Chinese company ENN had not been planning a facility in the Dry Lake area.
Where Reid’s agenda and Bundy’s cattle grazing do overlap: Bundy’s cattle have been grazing on land that Reid and Rep. Steven Horsford, D-Nev., have targeted for future wilderness protections. Both Reid and Horsford have filed legislation to turn the Gold Butte area into a national conservation area. But this is entirely separate from the solar project. A conservation status discourages development, and it’s near impossible to greenlight a solar project on conservation land.
The start of the Chinese solar project: Reid went to China in 2011 to lock down the deal. The ENN Mojave Energy project was supposed to help yank Southern Nevada’s flailing economy out of the recession and into the foreground of renewable energy development in America. Clark County fast-tracked the required reviews and approvals. But construction never started.
Where it got stuck: In June 2013, ENN said it was dumping the project because the “market will not support a project of this scale and nature at this time.” So right now, there is no massive Chinese-backed solar project in the works and certainly not one that requires the removal of Bundy’s cows.
The timelines don’t line up: Bundy’s battle with the BLM started in 1993 when he stopped paying his grazing fees, 18 years before anyone talked about putting Chinese money into the Nevada desert for renewable energy. Talk about the Chinese solar project started in 2011 and ended in 2013. And the Bundy-BLM confrontation came this month, long after the solar project died.
http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2014...t-sen-harry-r/
:lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Th'Pusher
"mainstream conservative" oxy-maran :lol
Quote:
Originally Posted by Th'Pusher
You sir Mr. Pusha are a silly man!
"Another project comes close. But not that close: Bundy’s home in the Mojave desert is closer to the Dry Lake Solar Energy Zone, a corridor that has been slated for renewable energy development. The BLM is planning a mitigation strategy that may stretch toward the area where Bundy has been grazing his cows. But even there, the maps don’t match up closely enough to suggest that Bundy’s specific grazing land was the intended site of a solar facility. Also, the Chinese company ENN had not been planning a facility in the Dry Lake area."
Facts? This guy claims the maps don't match up yet the BLM specifically names Bundy and the Gold Butte land on their own page.
"Non-Governmental Organizations have expressed concern that the regional mitigation strategy for the Dry Lake Solar Energy Zone utilizes Gold Butte as the location for offsite mitigation for impacts from solar development, and that those restoration activities are not durable with the presence of trespass cattle."
http://archive.today/nvlzr#selection-213.0-213.313
From the BLM's own page, mysteriously deleted but thankfully found.
While I agree that this dispute was not directly tied to the Chinese solar deal as it is dead, it looks to most certainly be tied to the Dry Lake solar project. If you don't think Reid has his hands in this I don't know what to tell you other than you are being naive. Reid has been tied to unethical deals in Vegas time and time again, this time isn't different.
Want to see a timeline that matches up?Quote:
Originally Posted by Th'Pusher
http://lasvegas.cbslocal.com/2014/04...med-blm-chief/
Mr. Pusha your facts article loses credibility when the same site posts a story like this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Th'Pusher
The world through militia eyes
http://m.lvsun.com/news/2014/apr/20/...-militia-eyes/
The Las Vegas sun is not a reputable source Mr. Pusha you should be ashamed claiming such as their bias is obvious.
Oregon car registration renewal is $77 + $21 DEQ fee. Drivers license renewal is $60.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElNono
Here registration depends on the value of your vehicle, IIRC. Driver's license renewal is $24 though, just did mine.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Cobra
https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3745/...3961c3f7_o.jpg
Ironically, if his argument prevailed he would be subject to paying the state of Nevada for grazing rights at $15.50 per head of cattle, rather than the federal rate of $1.35.
After searching for the distinctive cover of the document in Bundy's pocket, the publisher turned out to be the innocuously named National Center for Constitutional Studies (NCCS). However, the NCCS is not the commendable educational organization it purports to be.
It began life as the Freemen Institute, a vehicle for the far-right, Mormon, anti-commie, history revisionist, W. Cleon Skousen.
Skousen taught that the Constitution was inspired by a God who intended America to be a Christian nation. He also professed the canon of white supremicism that Anglo-Saxons are descended from a lost tribe of Israel. The Southern Poverty Law Centerchronicled the NCCS curriculum based on Skousen's philosophy saying that he...
"...demonized the federal regulatory agencies, arguing for the abolition of everything from the Occupational Safety and Health Administration to the Environmental Protection Agency. He wanted to repeal the minimum wage, smash unions, nullify anti-discrimination laws, sell off public lands and national parks, end the direct election of senators, kill the income tax and the estate tax, knock down state-level walls separating church and state, and, of course, raze the Federal Reserve System."
Sound familiar? Skousen's warped ideology was syncs up perfectly with the Tea Party and other purveyors of fringe fear mongering like politi-vangelist Glenn Beck, who literally begged his audience to read Skousen's book, "The 5000 Year Leap," which Beck said was "divinely inspired."
The conspiracy-obsessed NCCS shares with Beck and Bundy an animosity toward government that exceeds the boundaries of common sense.
Along with Skousen's books, the NCCS website features anti-UN screeds ("Confronting Agenda 21"), treatises on wingnut electoral reforms ("Repeal 17 Now!"), harbingers of one-world government ("The Rise of Global Governance"), and appeals for institutionalized theocracy ("America's God & Country"). No wonder Bundy was sporting a version of the Constitution that was distributed by the NCCS, an organization that advances ultra-conservative conspiracy theories and promotes anti-government hostility.
The threatening hysteria and deception emanating from Bundy, and the armed militias that came to his defense, are emblematic of the apocalyptic doctrine of the NCCS. It is no accident that Bundy's Constitution was provided by a group whose teachings have been denounced by historians and constitutional scholars. But it does explain the extremism and advocacy of violence that Bundy et al have espoused. All of this makes it all the more inappropriate and irresponsible for Bundy to be hailed as hero by conservative media outlets like the National Review and Fox News who, just last week, compared Bundy to Gandhi in a feat of epic cognitive collapse.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/0...m?detail=email
Yeah, that damn US constitution is definitely some radical right wing subversive shit.
Yes.Quote:
Originally Posted by CosmicCowboy
Considering it was intended for Anglo Saxons descended from a lost tribe of Israel.
As interpreted as an unchangeable "dead document" by the extreme right-wing anti-American Repug SCOTUS and Christian supremacists, yes THEIR Constitution is "radical right wing subversive shit"Quote:
Originally Posted by CosmicCowboy
I can't even imagine what Boos version of the constitution would look like.Quote:
Originally Posted by boutons_deux
no surprise, your imagination is full of Repug shit.Quote:
Originally Posted by CosmicCowboy
the US Constitution relates to Bundy/BLM dispute how, please?Quote:
Originally Posted by CosmicCowboy
be specific, if you can. Nevada was a US Territory (and a state) before Bundy settled there. also, the NV State constitution would appear to put his claims to Federal land to bed even if he had settled there prior to statehood.
Burning Man organizer plans anything-goes ‘Bundyfest’ to mock scofflaw rancher
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/wp-conten...ean-Shealy.png
Some of the organizers of the annual Burning Man festival are planning an event aimed at mocking the claims of a Nevada rancher who refuses to pay government-mandated fees for using federal lands.
“For years, we paid permitting fees to hold Burning Man on the beautiful Playa in Northern Nevada,” said the event’s organizers on a Facebook page. “But now, Cliven Bundy has shown us a NEW WAY! ABSOLUTE FREEDOM! Bundy has declared the entire area surrounding Bundy Ranch as a TOTALLY RULES-FREE ZONE! ANYTHING GOES! WOO-HOO!!!”
Progressive activist Sean Shealy said Bundyfest, which will be held across the road from Bundy’s ranch in Bunkerville, Nevada, for one month starting on Sept. 5.
That’s just after the conclusion of the Burning Man festival, and Shealy hopes attendees will travel south to see 240 bands perform 24 hours a day near the rancher’s home.
“Some people have asked me, where will we camp, where will we park?” Shealy said. “Anywhere, really. It’s f*cking anarchy.”
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/04/2...e+Raw+Story%29
I didn't bring it up. I was just responding to that stupid article Boo posted.Quote:
Originally Posted by Winehole23
does it misrepresent the NCCS?
and, CC, does the Bundy and his NCCS misrepresent, distort, pervert the Constitution?Quote:
Originally Posted by Winehole23
Jon Stewart on Cliven Bundy: ‘Sean Hannity has now made Glenn Beck the voice of reason’
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/04/2...ice-of-reason/
A copy of the constitution is a copy of the constitution whether it's reprinted by NCCS or Jesus Christ.Quote:
Originally Posted by Winehole23
I don't give a fuck one way or the other about the NCCS.
https://scontent-a-dfw.xx.fbcdn.net/...94011842_n.jpg
https://www.facebook.com/bundyranch/...levant_count=1
Not sure what part of Bundy not paying grazing fees authorized the feds to do this to his property.
Looks like their top priority is to get paid back!!!
who did what?Quote:
Originally Posted by angrydude
on WHOSE property?
Bundy's a garden-variety extreme right wing nut case, and a moocher, not a maker.
So you didn't know they massacred a whole bunch of Bundy's cows? You didn't even recognize that photo that has been anywhere where people talk about this.Quote:
Originally Posted by boutons_deux
Glad to know you're super informed on things you comment about.
Hell boutons, even PETA made a comment about this.
He knows everything his masters want him to know!Quote:
Originally Posted by angrydude
ok, govt killed some cows that Bundy was going to kill.
gotdam you...I thought this was about the Bunny Ranch :bangQuote:
Originally Posted by InRareForm
facebook is now a credible source and the basis for your outrage? that is sad.Quote:
Originally Posted by angrydude
Um, so you're claiming the pictures are fake? Because that's what you're implying genuis. You're saying the pictures the Bundy's took themselves of their own slaughtered cows and posted to their own social media are fake. The BLM has admitted that they did it. What more of a primary source can you possibly get? Are you serious?Quote:
Originally Posted by FuzzyLumpkins
Well, if this is the level of denial you attribute to facts that go against your preconceived narrative, I know that you're really just disingenuous about having any sort of discussion. This probably extends to your other politics as well. That means I'm calling you a liar.