Bundy should've taken his cows off the land.
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Bundy should've taken his cows off the land.
fixedQuote:
Originally Posted by ChumpDumper
lol that is the worst attempt at justifying a case of simple theft everQuote:
Originally Posted by angrydude
You're pathetic.
Not a fan of civil rights huh? Least you're honest about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChumpDumper
Property rights are civil rights BTW. Says so right here.
http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/amendmentxiv
Quote:
AMENDMENT XIV
SECTION 1.
All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
This isn't a civil rights issue.Quote:
Originally Posted by angrydude
He already had his due process several times over.
You are being dishonest and disingenuous.
property rights are civil rights. 14th amendment says so.
Show me the court order allowing the BLM to kill the cows.
Rosa Parks was breaking the law. She didn't even have the Civil Rights act on her side at the time. So she was double breaking it.
The BLM can do as it pleases with abandoned cattle on its land.Quote:
Originally Posted by angrydude
Bundy can sue for compensation if he wants; he can take it out of the money he owes the US taxpayers. lol due process
Good for her. She wasn't trying to steal from the taxpayers.Quote:
Rosa Parks was breaking the law. She didn't even have the Civil Rights act on her side at the time. So she was double breaking it.
Why are you trying to lionize some old kook freeloading off your tax dollars?
And since the main concern was Bundy mooching off taxpayers, not getting them off the land by any means necessary, the obvious choice was to kill them.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChumpDumper
So to be straight, you're position is lol when the government breaks the law?Quote:
Originally Posted by ChumpDumper
No, she just wanted to steal their seats.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChumpDumper
Why are you so upset at someone taking a principled stand against what they think is an unjust law.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChumpDumper
BTW its been confirmed they were limiting the number of cattle on his land, and that played into his decision to stop paying. So they were literally trying to regulate him out of business. Your position is he should have just packed up and moved. Just like Rosa Parks should have packed up and gone to the back of the bus.
BTW I get just as upset whenever I see cops violating people's civil rights in policecam videos--even if they broke the law first.
One of many options. Bundy should have taken them of BLM land.Quote:
Originally Posted by angrydude
Bundy can sue. If he wants to settle his debt to the taxpayers I'm all for compensating him for the cattle.Quote:
So to be straight, you're position is lol when the government breaks the law?
Yeah, your comparison is an abject failure. There is no theft involved in the Parks situation.Quote:
No, she just wanted to steal their seats.
It's not a principled stand. He just wants something for nothing.Quote:
Why are you so upset at someone taking a principled stand against what they think is an unjust law.
Nah, my position is he should have paid his fees. Rosa Parks paid her bus fare.Quote:
BTW its been confirmed they were limiting the number of cattle on his land, and that played into his decision to stop paying. So they were literally trying to regulate him out of business. Your position is he should have just packed up and moved. Just like Rosa Parks should have packed up and gone to the back of the bus.
ok then.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChumpDumper
Rosa Parks was denied Liberty.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChumpDumper
Bundy was denied Property
Sorry. This was a very intentional principled stand done to prove a point. All you have to do is listen to the man's own words and see his actions. He tried to pay the fee to the state but they wouldn't take them. If anything this is more like a tax protest. Stupid? Possibly. But there are degrees of stupidity. It's working out for him so far. But its definitely principled.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChumpDumper
She wasn't arrested for not paying her bus fair.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChumpDumper
Nah, there is no principle here -- unless mooching is a principle. I suppose it is to you.
Bundy owes the taxpayers of the US, so he needs to pay the federal government.
Until he does, he is simply more of a moocher than your run of the mill welfare rancher.
And I've shown the US doesn't care about being repaid, otherwise they wouldn't have killed his cattle. The IRS isn't in the business of burning down homes they foreclose on, but that's because the IRS cares about getting paid.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChumpDumper
Until their actions show otherwise, I'm convinced this is about more than simple tax dodging.
The BLM admitted to euthanizing 2 bulls...Quote:
Originally Posted by angrydude
A BLM spokesman confirmed Thursday that two bulls had been killed during the agency’s weeklong roundup, which ended Saturday with an armed standoff between supporters of rancher Cliven Bundy and federal agents.
The two bulls posed “a safety hazard,” said BLM spokesman Craig Leff, who didn’t elaborate on the circumstances.
http://www.reviewjournal.com/news/bu...cattle-roundup
You're right. The bundy's probably killed all those cows themselves and buried them just so they could blame the BLM while the BLM was on the ranch with snipers watching them do it.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElNono
They probably destroyed all those wells and all the other infrastructure to. A true Pyrrhic victory.
I actually do think the Bundys are pretty kookoo and certainly wouldn't put it past them. But I really have no evidence whatsoever either party did that.Quote:
Originally Posted by angrydude
Let's just say that when you say "The BLM has admitted that they did it", you're referring to two bulls...
how about they admitted to killing cattle? Ok, you got me, they didn't admit to killing every cow.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElNono
I couldn't find anything. Did you?Quote:
Originally Posted by angrydude
http://www.8newsnow.com/story/253105...-bundy-roundupQuote:
Originally Posted by ElNono
I found at least six
they say some "died".
Pretty bad ranchers tbh...
Don't see a quote from the BLM there...Quote:
Originally Posted by angrydude
where it says "according to the BLM"Quote:
Originally Posted by ElNono
Actually, I take that back... here's another one:
http://www.reviewjournal.com/news/bu...e-died-roundup
6 out of 350... still don't see what's the big deal.
Maybe he should keep his cattle in his land, or pay what he owes...
That would require him to recognize the federal government has authority over him, which at this time looks unlikely...
kookoo indeed...
Oh hell it's fun to just declare yourself a foreign citizen when it's necessary.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElNono
Maybe the Bundy's need deportation back to planet Zenos or... Syria
I think they would like Syria being they are partial to places where everyone has their own rules.
Heck, even a foreign citizen has to abide by federal law while in the US. Good luck telling the IRS they can't tax the money you made in the US because you're French...Quote:
Originally Posted by pgardn
Agreed. Much better to come here illegally and get yourself free healthcare and education all the while funneling your earnings back to Mexico tax free.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElNono
If this was really about unpaid grazing fees why was there never a lien put on his property or his cattle?
Why was the BLM webpage specifically naming Bundy and the Gold Butte land to be used for a mitigation site erased?
lol you are so dishonestQuote:
Originally Posted by angrydude
Bundy probably has illegals tending his cattle tbh.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSanityAnnex
Even illegal immigrants have to get a Tax ID and pay taxes, especially if they hope to ever become citizens. Part of the citizenship requirement is showing 3 years worth of tax returns.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSanityAnnex
How do you enforce a court order on a guy that doesn't think federal courts have authority over him? I mean other than with federal agents and snipers...Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSanityAnnex
I have no idea. I just have a higher standard of proof than facebook photos. Why not link the BLM admission?Quote:
Originally Posted by angrydude
thats quite the precedent to set for unpaid fees. Who's next? Plenty of people/corporations who owe more to the government than Bundy.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElNono
What is your comment on the erased BLM page?
"How do you enforce a court order on a guy that doesn't think federal courts have authority over him?"
you "garnish" his bank account.
The financial mucky mucks recommend "bail in", where stressed, bankrupt, illiquid banks simply take INNOCENT depositors' funds (eg, Cyprus banks taking Russian depositors' funds), so why can't the govt take a GUILTY farmers funds.
So the solution is to claim you are not a part of the US and subject to laws you make up...Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSanityAnnex
How did you get that from my comment?Quote:
Originally Posted by pgardn
Did you agree with the response from the government? Were 200 agents and snipers necessary?
And why have you, just like el nono, failed to respond to the deleted BLM page? Are you not aware of it?
I think we can all agree that Bundy is a whack job, but are you guys honestly defending the militarized BLM reaction?
Go back and read the reasoning for his claim.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSanityAnnex
I have no idea and either do you as far as the reaction.
I tend to think the Feds will not show up with an army unless other threats are made. The wack jobs this nut attracted to help his newly formed country are often armed. This has been a long conflict and neither of us know what was said off the record.
The reaction to show up with an army?Quote:
Originally Posted by CosmicCowboy
We have already been over this.
a young kid makes a gun with his hand, get suspended.
somebody points a camera at cops, gets roughed up, camera destroyed
white paranoid assholes in defense of a scofflaw point guns at US govt employees, get nothing.
yep, right wingers' paranoid fantasies of govt persecution are really accurate.
I never got the fascination of hardcore nanny state opponents with the supposed benevolence of state governance. What a laugh. In this day and age, The state is generally far less hands off, more meddlesome, intrusive and way more aggressive than the federal government. It's the state saying you can't do super sized sodas. It's the state that is outlawing gay marriage. It's the state that is raising excise taxes. It's the state banning abortion. It's the state saying you can or cannot smoke pot. Its's the state saying you can't smoke in restaurants.. It's the state that you fear when your restaurant is due for inspection. It's the state inspecting your health care facilities, your factory, your balls. And 99% of the time! it's the state finning you when you suck. The state is governance on steroids. For the average person, It is almost a guarantee that the state is interfering with and directly affecting your life in ways that make the federal government nearly invisible by comparison.
The state is up your ass six ways till Sunday and it will turn you or your business upside down and take a shiny penny straight out of your ass long before the federal government even realizes there's a problem. Case in point, bundy has been fucking over the Feds fir decades. Try not paying your state taxes or fees. Let me know how it works out. Lol They'll be up your ass in a NY minute. The state is the nanny that the federal government only wishes it could be.
Which is why I argued for state intervention in the early stages of this conflict...aside frim the point that Bundy was receptive to state oversight vs Fed.
TB :lol FINALLY has something to say! yippeeQuote:
Originally Posted by TeyshaBlue
Who pointed a gun at a government employee?Quote:
Originally Posted by boutons_deux
how about this guy, widely photographed:Quote:
Originally Posted by CosmicCowboy
http://readersupportednews.org/image...pon-042114.jpg
The Great Teyshablue always has something to say.Quote:
Originally Posted by boutons_deux
lol @Great. :lol
Bundy's ancestral claims, debunked:
http://www.8newsnow.com/story/253021...family-historyQuote:
It has been widely reported that Cliven Bundy’s family claims to have ranched in the Bunkerville area since the 1870s even though a federal judge held a different view of Bundy’s history.
Bundy repeated a similar claim Thursday when he told TheBlaze website: “My family has preemptive, adjudicated livestock water rights filed with the state of Nevada. They were established in 1877 when the first pioneers entered the valley. Among those first pioneers were my grandparents from my mother’s side. My father either bought or inherited his Nevada state livestock water rights and I, in turn, have done the same.”
Contrast that with the 1998 opinion from U.S. District Judge Johnnie Rawlinson in a case where it was determined Bundy wouldn’t be allowed to use federal land for his cattle because of failure to pay grazing fees to the Bureau of Land Management. Rawlinson wrote that it wasn’t until roughly 1954 that “Bundy or his father or both have grazed livestock on public lands owned by the United States and administered by the BLM.”
Clark County Recorder documents show the 160-acre Bunkerville ranch Bundy calls home was purchased by his parents, David and Bodel Bundy, from Raoul and Ruth Leavitt on Jan. 5, 1948. The purchase included the transfer to the Bundys of certain water rights, including water from the nearby Virgin River. Cliven Bundy was born in 1946.
That changes the color of the light...Quote:
Originally Posted by Winehole23
An army to slaughter cows that cross a property line?Quote:
Originally Posted by pgardn
Would we be better served if they were placed on the US/Mexico border?
Most people/corporations recognize the federal government authority over them. They might disagree as to the amounts owed, etc, but the federal authority over them never enters the picture, and they understand there are courts of law to deal with this, which avoids them visits from federal agents and snipers.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSanityAnnex
Haven't read anything about BLM pages, but I'm not sure how it applies to the main disconnect here: this is a guy that think federal laws don't apply to him. He's utterly wrong.
This is fine, Teysha. But the tools at our disposal are our votes, and in some cases our money to influence elections.Quote:
Originally Posted by TeyshaBlue
I can't think of a single case where pretending the rules don't apply to you doesn't end up burning you. And rightly so. If you don't like the new tax rates, you don't pay your taxes? I mean, then we're back in the far west (pun intended)
Where is the employee?Quote:
Originally Posted by boutons_deux
"disposal are our votes"
useless in a gerrymandered district,
non-existant due to REpug voter suppression and voting suppression
"our money to influence elections"
Adelson and ElNono call RickyBobby for an interview
Guess who gets the interview (and the check), and guess for which "constituent" RB votes.
Not sure what you're arguing, tbh...Quote:
Originally Posted by boutons_deux
I said those are the tools, not that everybody has access to those tools.
Illegal aliens can't vote, so they don't have access to that.
People that don't have enough disposable income to donate to campaigns, don't have access to the other tool.
Access to those tools are a completely different matter.
The point is, pretending the federal government doesn't exist, isn't a tool. Never has been.
:tuQuote:
Originally Posted by TeyshaBlue
I think you mis understood my point. I was addressing the nanny state argument federal government had no right to have a beef (pun intended) with Bundy.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElNono
in the paranoid gun fellator's sightsQuote:
Originally Posted by CosmicCowboy
proof?Quote:
Originally Posted by boutons_deux
Re-reading, I certainly did... sorry bout thatQuote:
Originally Posted by TeyshaBlue
:pctossYou could've at least dropped a token pun.
Evidence contradicts Cliven Bundy’s ‘ancestral rights’ claim
MORE (INCLUDING VIDEO) HERE: http://wonkynewsnerd.com/cliven-bundy-ancestral-rights/Quote:
Nevada rancher Cliven Bundy’s claim to an “ancestral right” to graze his cattle on federal land is not standing up to scrutiny, according to media reports.
KLAS-TV in Las Vegas took a look at property records and found, among other things, that Bundy’s parents bought the 160 acre ranch in 1948. At that time, water rights were transferredm “but only to the ranch, not the federally managed land surrounding it. Court records show Bundy family cattle didn’t start grazing on that land until 1954.”
<SNIP>
MSNBC’s Chris Hayes talked with Nevada journalist Jon Ralston, host of the TV show “Ralston Reports,” which airs on on all three NBC affiliates in that state. Ralston slammed Bundy and his claims.
“He is not a freedom fighter, he’s not standing up for state sovereignty,” Ralston said. “He is a guy trying to get away without paying fees that many other ranchers … pay here.”
LOL, what a faggot. BLM should shoot all his cattle
GFY :ihitQuote:
Originally Posted by TeyshaBlue
http://images.dailykos.com/images/78...jpg?1397764231:lol That's one lean, men son of a bitchin cowboy.
Conservative hero Cliven Bundy: 'I want to tell you one more thing I know about the Negro ...'
What a surprise: It turns out that Cliven Bundy, the deadbeat cattle rancher who has become a hero to conservative politicians and pundits, is nothing but—well, besides that whole deadbeat cattle rancher thing—a racist:
“I want to tell you one more thing I know about the Negro ... because they were basically on government subsidy, so now what do they do?” he asked. “They abort their young children, they put their young men in jail, because they never learned how to pick cotton. And I’ve often wondered, are they better off as slaves, picking cotton and having a family life and doing things, or are they better off under government subsidy? They didn’t get no more freedom. They got less freedom.”
Coming up next: Watching conservatives awkwardly distance themselves from the remarks themselves while still embracing their hero's "principles."
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/04/24/1294262/-Conservative-hero-Cliven-Bundy-I-want-to-tell-you-one-more-thing-I-know-about-the-Negro?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_ca mpaign=Feed%3A+dailykos%2Findex+%28Daily+Kos%29
:lol typical redneck stupid fuck. Grazing cows on taxpayers land for under $2/head (vs $15/head his own state charges) AND not paying on his own subsidized bills. :lol
empty his bank account, bankrupt him, sell of his stuff until the $1M is recovered. That's EXACTLY what banks would do.
:cry Jim Crow :cry
:cry Rosa Parks :cry
This is an interesting point as it also leads me to ponder the corruption associated with even smaller "government" entities... Neighborhood association members skimming money, the horrible abuse of taxpayer money by school board members in big districts with a constituency that does not care. Getting 200 votes and then getting a kickback from your brother-in-law who wins the cafeteria food contract. This happens over and over again in SA districts that are poor. County and small city police forces totally abusing traffic laws... It's fairly easy to get elected in these small time positions yet pad income quite nicely.Quote:
Originally Posted by TeyshaBlue
in the background: http://www.presidency.ucsb.edu/ws/?pid=36873
http://www.azland.gov/programs/natur...azing_fees.htmQuote:
Originally Posted by Winehole23
Quote:
Originally Posted by boutons_deux
Hope Cliven never needs abdominal surgery.
I would opt to go in backside.
The man looks like a pregnant guppie.
Sig worthy.:lolQuote:
Originally Posted by pgardn
Quote:
Originally Posted by boutons_deux
wow, the irony...can't wait till people like bundy are extinct.
Shouldn't his comments only endear him further to his Republiteabertarian supporters?
of course, he's only "wrong" in blatantly expressing his racism that Repugs nearly all sympathize with (see Ryan's budgets, Bishop Gecko's 47%, incessant Repug/libertarian dog whistling, aryan/KKK/militia/white supremacists, (black) voter suppression) but prefer their anti-govt HERO shut up about it, esp during an election year. Fox keeps promoting the guy because Fox really knows its racist audience :lolQuote:
Originally Posted by monosylab1k
I'll be angrydude did a fist pump in the air when he heard what Mr Bundy had to say about the negro.
"Fuck yeah"
Yeah, Bill Cosby got into trouble too for trying to have a conversation. No one want to talk about the problem, just condemn. Let the war continue in Democrat cities like Detroit and Chicago. Hell it is only in the black neighborhoods.
And those who do attempt to talk about the problem, like Dr Sowell, Justice Thomas, Bill Cosby, Dr Carson and so on are called Uncle Toms or traitors. Go figure.
Here's the full unedited video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agXns-W60MI
Politically incorrect? Yes. Racist? Well, nothing is gonna change the minds of lefties now is it?
Not surprisingly, the NYT is really good at smearing old white people. Character assassination is what they do.
LOL complaining about niggas getting subsidies when he's gotten 20 years of federal subsidies.
singling out the now unaccepted "the Negro", already a generalization, with those characteristics IS racist.Quote:
Originally Posted by angrydude
It's well known that Repugs' hard core is old, white, male, low information, low wage, poor, rural, probably Christian, overweight or obese, and probably with creative facial white hair patterns. :lol
racism is kin to their broader xenobphobia (all furriners, even non Euro-American American citizens)
Exactly, he's a deadbeat,,,he's profited off the use of federal land for decades and now that the government want's their money he wants to act like he has a right to collect welfare because his parents did it...Quote:
Originally Posted by baseline bum
:lol yeah because they all wondered if blacks were better off as slaves.Quote:
Originally Posted by xrayzebra
ya, it's the "lefties" that make this guy say stupid shit... :lol
Do you personally think it's racist?Quote:
Originally Posted by angrydude
Yes or no.
But real talk, since xray wants to discuss blacks in this country, for 200 years artificial selection by mas'sa of niggas strong enough to pick the cotton and bale the hay but dumb enough to buy the stories about jeebus rewarding their suffering and not revolt explains a lot about why the brothas are doing a lot worse off than whitey here tbh.
"artificial selection by mas'sa of niggas strong enough to pick the cotton and bale the hay"
... has produced the NFL -- Chris Rock
WATCH: Stephen Colbert Sings the 'Ballad of Cliven Bundy'
http://www.alternet.org/files/styles.../colbert_4.png
http://www.alternet.org/tea-party-an...tter985775&t=3
Obvious from the post that we have many experts here on the breeding and selection of blacks as slaves. Of course all of the are from the left. Ought to tell people something.
Not a word about the conditions that have been created by these same leftest that have destroyed the families of black people and created a group of young blacks that think nothing of selling drugs or shooting up the neighborhood, while the leftest who run these cities do little or nothing to make the neighborhoods safe or try to persuade the young people to stay in school and further their education. What a waste of humanity.
So far all I have read is what Bundy has said was taken out of context. I have no idea how the subject was ever brought up, do any of you know? And spare me the sarcastic remarks I am asking a legitimate question.
off your meds again?Quote:
Originally Posted by xrayzebra
Crosby should not be grouped with the Uncle Tom's.
Crosby wanted the ghetto [email protected] to start being blacks, quit murdering other blacks, stop the drugs, pull your pants up, wear a belt, speak grammatical English (not "wat da problem is?"), get job, have a family, be a father.
Typical boutons response. He gets to pick and choose who is the Uncle Tom's.Quote:
Originally Posted by boutons_deux
No. I think he's ignorant.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChumpDumper
I think he doesn't understand how bad some slaves had it. He does correctly point out that life off the government dole isn't a life worth having. He seems to understand in generalities however that as slaves, the blacks had a better family unit than today.
So why do some see him as an Uncle Tom? Shouldn't Cosby's message be every bit as meaningful as MLK's?Quote:
Originally Posted by boutons_deux
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqoZ0C0cnRE
But he's been living off the government for 40 years.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Cobra