He has his fuck-ups but he's still a genius. If you want any other coach leading this team then you are an idiot tbh.
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He has his fuck-ups but he's still a genius. If you want any other coach leading this team then you are an idiot tbh.
No
Phil shit on him one too many times for Pop to be GOAT.
Carlisle demolished Phil in the post-season and put him into retirement. Never seen Pop do that and he had MUCH better teams than Rick ever did.
Phil is a glorified, opportunistic ego manager. He had Shaq and Kobe during their primes, then got handed Gasol during his. Where is his coaching tree? Where are all the teams trying to copy the Bulls/Lakers culture? Now answer those questions for Pop. And Carlisle is a damn good coach but let's not compare that '11 Lakers teams to the Lakers teams the Spurs faced in the early-mid 2000s. They were running on fumes just like the '03 Lakers were when we beat them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny RIngo
The dude got sucked off for regularly doing stupid shit like not calling timeouts and 'letting his team play through it'. As if the Lakers being able to recover was due to his 'Zen skills' and not to the fact that they were the most talented team on any given night. Just look at what the Heat's former video manager has been able to do with a stacked team. :lol
6
Pop got gifted 3 hall of famers, potentially one of the best lock down defenders in Bowen, a GREAT staff of Assistant coaches: Bud, Newman, Shooting Coach Chip Engelland. It's not just him.
Are you people kidding me? Pop has four rings because of Tim Duncan. Period.
Then, Pop gave away Tim's 5th ring by sitting twice in the last minute of Game 6. That game was easily the worst coaching job of all time.
Did you see Phil sit Jordan twice in the last minute of a championship-clinching game? Did Auerbach sit Russell?
Pop is one of the greatest coaches of all time. Part of the reason why he's great is his ability to control his players..Star player or not.
That said, Pop is not the same as he was in his earlier years. He's a lot more stubborn now..And he's not the best at developing talent.
He's also lucky he got three talented players in Parker, Duncan, Manu
^ Tim Duncan made Pop and is the sole reason the Spurs have 4 rings. The Spurs have had similar seasons prior to Pop with other coaches with David Robinson, Sean and a cast of scrubs and they were never able to get over the hump. It's no coincidence that the last time we won was when Tim was slightly on the decline from his prime but still the man.
Last season Tim had a resurgent year and we almost had 5. Pop has never taken unproven role players and made them any better in the playoffs; Horry, Barry, Kerr were proven assets on other teams and they learned how to be clutch elsewhere. It's the playoffs and he's still worried about managing minutes. Let's hope either Tim, Parker or Manu have a big game in them for Game 7 so we can see this smug bastard grin and say, well that's basketball like he had anything to do with it
When you get outcoached and swept by Alvin Gentry and the Phoenix Suns,,,,you are not the greatest coach of all time.
He is stubborn beyond belief. Can't believe it's such an important game and he's trotting out Belli, Bonner and Ayres while Green rots on the bench. His refusal to play hot players and stick to his precious rotation is ridiculous and if SA media had any b****, they'd call him out on it. His Manu love is frustrating too - especially when he's playing poorly/getting burned. Go with who is playing well that night (hint: Splitter and Green). If Dirk/Duncan are so old and can play 38 minutes, I don't see why Splitter can't.
Pop has his flaws but there is no other coach I can think of that can win so much where the emphasis is on the system and not the players. Tbh.
Pop is a great coach but is he the greatest of all time? No, Phil Jackson is the greatest of all time, in my opinion. He has the championship's to back it up.
Phil 11
Pop 4
It's not just that. It's game 6. Reverse sweep by the Thunder in '12. 8th seed Grizzlies beating the top seed in '11. Getting swept by Gentry's Suns 'in 10. Loosing in 7 with homecourt in '06. Reverse sweep in '04. Those are not your typical ways of getting beat. Most coaches would be on thin ice after stuff like that.Quote:
Originally Posted by HemisfairArena
Pop's not on the same level as PJ and he doesn't have any excuses. If you say it's just because PJ had talent. PJ almost got a Bulls team missing Jordan to the Finals even with bad officiating. As far as excuses in '04 Finals, Malone was injured. His defense on Duncan was on of the primary reasons they beat the Spurs. In '08 Finals, Ariza and Bynum were injured. He got revenge by winning in '10. Even in '11, he was in a lame duck situation and Kobe missed practices all year.
Actually everyone on Spurs talk and all their championship rings are the GOAT...oh wait....
Pop is a great coach, but there is nothing he can do if his players are going to allow Dejuan Blair to grab 14 rebounds. That is on them, not him.
The Heat are copying the Bulls/Lakers culture by stacking the team with the best talent in the league. That's been proven time and again to win rings. That's a geographical/front office thing that no coach in the history of mankind can change. Since the best talent doesn't want to play in a small market, the small markets have to win catch-as-catch-can and that's invariably during the brief lulls between stacked large market team runs.Quote:
Originally Posted by FkLA
The jostling between small market teams in a facade of usurping the power from the juggernaut is what fuels ticket sales for the NBA, but it's by and large a facade. In the end the same team(s) come out on top.
Pop is one of the greatest. He has shown the ability to adapt based on the team he has, make good use of formerly no name role players, and his current system is flexible enough where we still can have regular season success in the absence of team leaders.
However he has never been great with rotations and situational coaching, and tends to outthink himself. In out championship years he didn't have to be as creative due to Duncan's ability to dominate both ends like no other in this era.
Pulling splitter as as he was dominating Dallas was a curious move. Similarly, Green is our best player to defend quick guards, and Pop pulled him even during a game where Danny was hitting shots. Monta proceeded to own us down the stretch as pop keeps throwing Leonard on monta
I agree with everything, except the fact that I would think it was obvious Red is definitely ahead of Pop in terms of GOAT.Quote:
Originally Posted by FkLA
It's almost impossible to accurately judge coaching ability based on team performance, because the players are always a confound. All you have to go on is coaching decisions mixed with player performance. You cannot isolate coaching variables entirely from player variables, hence you are always getting a mixed signal.
I don't know that that's really a culture or even something teams can emulate (with the exception of a couple of big market teams like you said). Doesnt take a genius to realize that grouping a bunch of ridiculously talented players in their primes will yield success. The high profile persona of Phil and Riley helps bring them together but it has nothing to do with coaching.Quote:
Originally Posted by Expert
Not old enough to have watched Red. Do think it's a completely different league now than it was back then though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spur|n|Austin
Ranking coaches in order doesn't really make any sense, tbh..
The only way to rank coaches is by separating them into tiers IMO..
Pop would be on the top tier, along with 5-7 others, but he's not some type of coaching God like the media has crowned him..
A bad coach has more impact in hurting a team than a great coach does in helping a team, tbh..any average coach can win a ring with elite team, as Doc Rivers has shown us..
For those saying he has rings because of Duncan, that is true. But that's also the case for any other coach who has won it all...Phil has rings bc of MJ, Shaq and Gasol. Carlisle has one bc of Dirk. Spoelstra bc of LeBron and Wade, etc etc. You need talent to win and Pop is no exception.
With that said Pop adapted once Duncan got up there in age and our Spurs continue to churn out Ws. We haven't had a true superstar since Duncan and Manu declined and yet the Popmaster has us winning 60+. He has a system and has established a culture in San Antonio. That's great coaching and you niggas are spoiled, ungrateful bastards tbh.
I don't think it is too much to ask a coach to rationalize the decisions he makes. Pop makes no effort to do that to the media. Instead he acts like a jerk. Maybe an attempt to rationalize the decisions would open him up to further questioning and make the decisions look bad. Every coach include PJ make mistakes. The problem is the Pop is the only coach who refuses to acknowledge them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcadian
funny how Phil Jackson himself was a arrogant prick
Even Carlisle is on record suggesting that Pop is the best coach of all-time...Quote:
Originally Posted by FkLA
And yet this minute management is what allowed the Spurs to extend Duncan's career to the tune of the 3 latest deep post-season runs... you can't have it both ways...Quote:
Originally Posted by TheGoldStandard
The guy has done it over and over in a small market without having to even miss the playoffs. phil was on teams the nba wanted to win and they sure as hell helped him. He never built shit, as soon as the ship was sinking he bailed. Fuck phil!
That .gif says it all tbh.Quote:
Originally Posted by FkLA
Quote:
Originally Posted by FkLA
Lol Homers
Lol OP
Smh utsa
The ironic thing about blasting Pop for his stubbornness is the fact that Pop has probably made bigger philosophical adjustments (and had more foresight in making those changes) than just about any coach in NBA history.
Forcing himself, the coaching staff and the players to face Game 6 at the start of training camp and turning it around this Finals.
I don't think any other coaches could do that. Not even Phil Jackson, Larry Brown or Doc River.
Exactly! Could you envision the system Pop would create back in the early 2000s when he played grind it out defensive 4-down + veteran shooters stuff to creating one of the top 3 passing teams of all time and arguably the best. AND win titles with both styles.Quote:
Originally Posted by FromWayDowntown
2014 title puts him up there.
When you really think about it, how many coaches were able to lead the same franchise to 5 titles covering 3 different eras (1999 to 2002 hand check/ illegal defense days, 2003 to 2010 ISO ball days, 2011 to present pace and space days)? Now think about the franchises who won multiple championships, how many of them are small market teams? The only two are the Spurs and possibly the Pistons. The reason big market teams get more changes at multiple rings is, as already mentioned, talent tends to prefer large markets, and obviously, with more talent, you get rings.
Spurs have Popovich, Pistons have Daly and Brown, two of the all time greatest coach.
Then when you look at the system, teams were able to replicate the Spurs system, because it is not talent dependent. Nobody can replicate Red Auerbach's system for 11 rings in 13 years because you can no longer get 8 HoFers on one team while battling another 7 teams in the league. You can't replicate Jackson's system because nobody else have Jordan to bail out the triangle system and Shaq to pound the ball into the hole.
The 99, 03 and 05 titles were hard to replicate because no team can put up a dominant defensive front line like the Spurs did and have a guy like Duncan who get score down low whenever you need it, but by the time 2007 rolls around, Duncan has regressed a little, and the Spurs offense relied on the ISO ball ability of Ginobili and Parker to finish. Those two guys, as great as they were, could be replicated. 2014 is pretty much all Pop, he created a system that, with enough time, dedication, and attention to details, can be created by many other teams and does not require top notch talent, and the only other coach that can say that is Larry Brown in 2004, and to a lesser extent, Daly with the bad boys.
Daly brought the tough ball era to the NBA, Pop ushered in the defensive dominance era with the 99 team, then forced the super team formations after the 07 era. I have a feeling the 14 Spurs will lead to an era emphasizing ball movement and defensive rotations.