Which is ironic seeing how you're "hater".Quote:
Originally Posted by hater
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Which is ironic seeing how you're "hater".Quote:
Originally Posted by hater
I saw Ginobili with the chap stick yesterday on the bench.......Hilarious!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Mugen
You're still mixing them up :lol. You're taking his shots attempts in the Mavs series (where he actually went over your supposedly "expected" scoring rate) to explain why you've been expecting more from Manu in the last couple of seasons...Quote:
Originally Posted by Kidd K
Except that for the last 3 seasons, he hasn't taken anywhere near 15 shots a game. Applying your same formula:Quote:
Originally Posted by Kidd K
2014: 10.4
2013: 10.7
2012: 10.0
The whole problem is that you're focusing on one specific area of the boxscore that's no longer Manu's main role. He is, above all, a playmaker now. It's time to simply accept who Manu is now, and bring your scoring expectations about him down a notch.
now that i think about it, manu was gold, but splitters play was so crucial it may be the MVperformance
His minutes are up vs the season and he's been underwhelming for years during the season man, that's what I mean about expectations. It isn't like he's Danny Green. He's Manu Ginobili, the big dick bastard who was getting 12m/year and part of the big 3 until very recently with his shit postseason performance last year. 12 PPG is very underwhelming and below my expectations. I don't expect 17 PPG obviously, but I don't see why 14-15 is so unreasonable with his increased shots and minutes. Timmy's even older and puts up 15/10/3 still with good D. Manu: 12/3/4.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElNono
Just to put then numbers out there so you can see what I'm looking at for this take, he plays 22 mins during the season and about 28 in the playoffs over the last 3 years. He sucked last postseason and performed way below expectation, so I don't consider more than that to be a bonus. It is not unreasonable to "expect" a stat increase with his minutes increase. His volume of shots per 36 this reg season was nearly 17 shots already (14.6 FGAs, 4.4 FTAs). Postseason is about 19.5 shots per 36 (15 FGAs, 8.8 FTAs).
His role is similar as it used to be. He's always been taking a lot of shots, his minutes have just been down the past three years. He's basically only taking two more shots per 36. So yeah I do expect about 15 PPG with his shot volume. He just took a little more than usual to get the extra 2.5 PPG. He's also had a solid TS% due to the big increase in FTAs. I do hope it continues, but like I said, aside from those extra FTAs on drives he normally wouldn't have taken, he really isn't playing -that- far above what I expected. I didn't expect him to be shit against the Mavs in the first round. I expect him to be shit against OKC and Miami if we get to them. *shrugs*
He's doing well and we're gonna need it against Portland. Now if only Tiago can retain his level of play. . . .
Same as Brazil said, dude, we got you don't like Manu.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kidd K
Dude, Basketball is not all about scoring.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kidd K
Don't think we really had one.
Based on expectations possibly Ginobili.
I don't have a problem with what your "expectations" are... even though I don't agree with them, and I suspect you'll be disappointed when it's all said and done.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kidd K
Throwing stats in the air and mixing and matching them to fit your narrative is what undermines your argument. Bringing up more stats, per 36 stats, etc don't make the previous, erroneous assumptions you built your argument on any more true.
There's plenty of stats that measure efficiency (which is at the core of your argument: Manu doesn't score enough for the amount of shots he takes), but the reality is that Gino is one of the most impactful and efficient players in the league. Whether you're looking at PER or PIE, he's up there in the top 5 percentile of the league. Obviously, that is limited because of the amount of minutes he plays, and that's just a reality of being 37 years old.
Duncan is arguably a top 10 player ever, and a freak. You can count with the fingers on one hand how many guys at 38 years old do what he does night in and out.
At any rate, I do agree we're going to need all of our guns going forward... including Mills and up to an extent Beli.
I just think that if you expect Gino to play like in the 1st round on all the series, you're setting yourself up for disappointment. I could be wrong, and hope I'm wrong, but I'll take the larger sample size as the better indicator of what's to come.
I don't dislike Manu, I dislike how he hurts the team when he has those trademark horrendous games, where instead of just try harder or play smarter when things aren't going his way, he instead starts gambling over and over while it rarely pays off. You're just being emotional about the negativity. I'm simply not going to herald him as a hero after round one due to his recent history. If he continues to play well, I will give him props.Quote:
Originally Posted by Diego20
I didn't say it was here or anywhere else in my life ever. Very poor strawman. In fact if you scroll up, I multiple times mention defense. Manu specifically did not play great D. Splitter however, did. Enhancing his MVP case.Quote:
Originally Posted by Diego20
I'm not throwing stats in the air or mixing and matching them to fit a narritive. You are simply missing the very basic point I am making by trying to make it out to be something it isn't. I will keep it simple here because I don't really see why we're arguing this.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElNono
The fact is that Manu is playing more minutes, therefore he will be taking more shots, therefore he will be scoring more points. Following this extremely basic set of logic, Manu's PPG will naturally go up. So an increase in scoring from 12 to 14 or 15 is not a "wow big increase", it's merely a natural, foregone conclusion. So yes, I EXPECT him to score 14-15 PPG since he is playing 28 minutes per game now instead of just 22.
Let's use simple grade school math here. 28-22 is 6. 6/22 is 0.272. So that's an additional 27% minutes of playing time. If Manu averages 12.3 PPG in 22 minutes, and plays an additional 27% minutes per game, let's add 27% more points to his 12.3. Ah I see, that's 15.5 PPG now.
So yes, I expect Manu to score 15 PPG instead of 12.3 when his minutes went up by 27% and shot attempts went up along with it. Manu played above what I expected, but not that far above. There is no crazy argument here to fit some narrative, it's all very basic. Minutes up = I expect more shots and points by default. So a stat increase is inevitable.
You said:
What I read from that is that you expected him to be a 15 PPG player during the regular season, even though he didn't take anywhere near the same amount of shots, nor played the same amount of minutes. That's the only thing I took exception with.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kidd K
Maybe I misunderstood.
But running the team in very effective manner when Tony was in a funk was not really expected, not by myself anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kidd K
The fact Manu was even on the floor for major minutes because his mistakes were more limited is impressive ( if we go back to last year)
Personally I can't find one guy because it was diff players in diff games.
Tony possibly (with a kid on his mind ) could be MVP because he made game 7 a laugher.
First paragraph completely ignores the subject of the thread which asks about the mvp of round one, so there is no point on bringing up Manu's recent history as the context was already unambiguously defined, that is just an scapegoat for you to display your hatred and hypocrisy, and then you name Splitter as the mvp, why didn't you bring his recent history, of a soft underachiever specially during play-offs?Quote:
Originally Posted by Kidd K
Splitter was damn great but at no moment you would think "give the ball to Splitter" and hope he makes something and that is what a mvp is supposed to do. He was only scoring easy lay up from Tony and especially Manu, he did it better than his (low) average so props to him, and getting easy offensive rebound after a switch on the PnR. Duncan apart from game 1 was the same, he was struggling in the post and scoring easy layup from Manu. That's no coincidence if we blow the Mavs with Splitter playing less than usually.
Props to Tony and Manu for what they do with maybe the worst spacing bigs duo of the league.
Does it matter?
The board has to have something to argue about while waiting for the second round to start.Quote:
Originally Posted by gilmor
Not a damn thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by gilmor
You have a short memory. Splitter was key at the end of the very important Game 5, and it was certainly no freebies, plus he had a nice assist to Parker and some key rebounds.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kabals
I agree. Splitter absolutely ran the show in that fourth quarter. He had four assists, at least 10 points and numerous contested rebounds. The idea that he never had a stretch where he carried the team is way off-base. Tiago looked like a top-10 big during that game.Quote:
Originally Posted by will_spurs
And probably Scola wll be the Indy's MVP.Quote:
Originally Posted by kuato
I think ya'll expect too much out of Manu anymore and so does the team. I love him but I think he needs even fewer minutes (even though he's already limited with his minutes) and just be used from time to time. Hopefully the other guys off the bench will really step up like they did tonight.
Manu was awful today... Pop had the quick hook (only 18 mins). A lot easier to do when the rest of the bench shows up and plays well. Beli specifically, is a huge plus in games like this.Quote:
Originally Posted by TMTTRIO
Manu had a top 5 PER for all players in the first round. He was fantastic against Dallas. Not too good tonight but I'm not expecting him to maintain the kind of production we saw in the first round. If he can give us 12-15 ppg on good efficiency, Spurs are in great shape.Quote:
Originally Posted by TMTTRIO