It depends on what you mean by "trouble". I think they can win more games than they did this year, they can go further in the playoffs... but they cannot win a ring if Steph is their best player.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shastafarian
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It depends on what you mean by "trouble". I think they can win more games than they did this year, they can go further in the playoffs... but they cannot win a ring if Steph is their best player.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shastafarian
I'd be hard pressed to believe that any player not named LeBron would be able to rign with David Lee as the second best player, and even then its a big stretchQuote:
Originally Posted by DMC
Don't really see the saltiness. Classy exit if anything ,tbh.
You're so fixated on best and worst. Steph can absolutely be the best offensive player on a championship team. Every player has their own strengths and weaknesses. Who was the best OVERALL player on the 2011 Mavs?Quote:
Originally Posted by DMC
Hard pressed and "big stretch" are basically the same things. Either way, let's not make the stupid ass comparison between Lebron and Steph and pretend David is holding Steph back. Bring something substantial, not just misdirection and red herrings.Quote:
Originally Posted by spurraider21
No he cannot. If Steph is the best player on the team, then everyone else is at a lower level. That means Steph's shooting is making the major difference on the team. It's certainly not his passing or protecting of the ball. If that's the case it's just not going to happen for the team.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shastafarian
a) you understood exactly what I said, no need to be coy about it. since lebron is the best player in the league, its clear that he would stand the best chance to ring on a team with Lee as the #2, but even then it wouldn't be likelyQuote:
Originally Posted by DMC
b) I never compared LeBron to Steph Curry
c) You don't think a players' supporting cast (or lack thereof) can ever hold him back from having team success?
d) My claim was just as substantive as your claim that "they won't win with Curry as their best player"
:lol internet GM I guess. So who was the best player on that Mavs team?
Not unless he drastically cuts back on the turnovers, grows as a playmaker and adds some defense to that offense.... even then, his ankles and being a point guard are working against him, tbh....Quote:
Originally Posted by Shastafarian
Well yeah clearly he needs to improve. But he has the skills to be the best offensive player on a title team.Quote:
Originally Posted by Clipper Nation
Blair.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shastafarian
So anyone who disagrees with your run-of-the-mill take is an internet GM. Got it.
No he doesn't. He's not better than Chris Paul and CP3 won't ever be the best offensive player on a title team.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shastafarian
his ankle woes have been blown out of proportion, only missing significant time in one year... he played 80, 74 games his first 2 years, 26 in his injury-marred season (was the lockout year), and has played in 78 and 78 games in the 2 years since. Curry's turnovers at this point are his biggest issue, but that generally comes with players increasing their playmaking role.Quote:
Originally Posted by Clipper Nation
I liken his evolution as a player to something similar to Steve Nash, who started out as a flashy player/scorer on Dallas who took years to develop into a playmaker/passer. I'm not suggesting Curry will become the playmaker Nash was (he's one of the greatest of all time, of course), but I'm willing to cut him slack since his game is evolving. In college he was basically their only scoring threat at Davidson, so he didn't really have true point guard skills. He's only average defensively, but its not from a lack of effort
1. You invoke Lebron because you cannot remotely provide an argument against the one I made (which didn't include Lebron). That's called a ><))))))>Quote:
Originally Posted by spurraider21
2. You basically defended Curry by the blind assertion that Lebron couldn't ring with David Lee as his second best player, something you can't possibly know.
3. You didn't really have a claim. You just threw out a red herring per par for Philo
You mean 0 and forever Steve Nash?Quote:
Originally Posted by spurraider21
You like invoking HOF players and then stepping back with a disclaimer. Stop invoking them and comparing Steph to these guys and you won't have to make those disclaimers.
Blair wasn't on the 2011 Mavs. And you're an internet GM because I'd wager at least 2/3 of the league GMs would try to build a title team around Curry. And since they have jobs and you don't, you're designated an internet GM. Congrats.Quote:
Originally Posted by DMC
Shastafarian made a comment saying the Warriors would be in trouble no matter what, if David Lee was their second best player. This is a notion I agree with. You then turned it into "well they won't win with Curry as their best player anyway." By the parameters you just described, that was a red herring in itself. I was adding on to Shastafarian's argument, but looking at the best case scenario of a team with David Lee as the #2 (which is clearly a team with LeBron as the 1).Quote:
Originally Posted by DMC
I don't read all of your posts so I have no idea what you're talking about. You can bet though the best player wasn't the point guard.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shastafarian
I was pointing to growing pains we see in player development, which is something Nash went through as well. This was a response to CN, and yet you had to come here and philo it up without actually having a claim in the matterQuote:
Originally Posted by DMC
But the term "trouble" is a nebulous term, meaningless if you cannot define it. The crystal ball arguments you two make are pointless, as if you expect someone to provide evidence against your predictions of what "would" be if some hypothetical existed. That's lazy ass debating that doesn't require knowing anything.Quote:
Originally Posted by spurraider21
I interpreted "trouble" as having low odds of being serious championship contenders. Your argument that Curry can never be the #1 offensive player on a championship caliber team is equally hypothetical and by your own standards is an equally pointless argumentQuote:
Originally Posted by DMC
Ok, so why not say Patty Mills? You didn't just pull Nash out randomly. You've established that you're a Curry homer, so your takes on it (as non-specific as they are) are tainted with that love for him, thus the invocation of Nash and Lebron, instead of two other players who aren't future HOFers.Quote:
Originally Posted by spurraider21
Sounds about right.Quote:
Originally Posted by DMC
I thought you were into analyzing basketball. Sweet dodging answer.Quote:
You can bet though the best player wasn't the point guard.
More non-specific "can't pin me down" drivel. Low odds? Less than what?Quote:
Originally Posted by spurraider21
Crystal ball arguments like Steph Curry can never be the best player on a title team?Quote:
Originally Posted by DMC
Philo Jr. and Philo Sr. Philo-ing the fuck out of this thread :lol
You're an idiot. I've pissed you off with the sweeping evidence I posted in the past that showed blacks are genetically predisposed to commit crimes. I supported it in a way that would have held up in a court of law. You're just salty about it and now you've raised a wall of ignorance to my onslaught of basketball brilliance.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shastafarian
That's not a crystal ball argument. It doesn't presuppose conditions that don't exist.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shastafarian
I haven't seen Patty Mills take on a larger playmaking role or go through any sort of player development mirroring Curry's. I have observed similarities in Curry's and Nash's skill sets. Ball handling, efficient shooting, being able to create without being particularly great athletes. Both had scorer mentalities, and Nash eventually settled into a great point guard, but with that transition came increased turnovers. As Curry's playmaking role has increased over the years, so has his turnovers.Quote:
Originally Posted by DMC
Curry will mirror the 0 and forever.Quote:
Originally Posted by spurraider21
Ooooo in a court of LAW? So internet GM and internet lawyer. Congrats man that's enough accomplishment for two lifetimes. Shit that supposes you have a life though...Quote:
Originally Posted by DMC
It does in fact. It presupposes Curry will not improve.Quote:
Originally Posted by DMC
Now you're just being obtuse.Quote:
Originally Posted by DMC
It's always unsatisfying arguing with DMC. No matter how wrong he is or how obvious it is to everyone else, he still tells himself he's really smart. Oh well.
An internet life is just as good as the real thing right guys? Right???
its not unsatisfying. DMC and I enjoy back and forth arguments that go nowhere. its why we always partake in themQuote:
Originally Posted by Shastafarian
Whatever floats your boatQuote:
Originally Posted by spurraider21
Pretending seconds in your real life aren't ticking away while you toil away on here to deny it's real is an irony that drips off your tongue.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shastafarian
Curry can win a championship as the best offensive player because...(this is your cue)Quote:
Originally Posted by spurraider21
You still hoping for a Chimpionship?Quote:
Originally Posted by Clipper Nation
I spend spare time here, usually during games. Can you say the same? I doubt it. But hey congrats on being an internet renaissance man. It can't be easy to earn an internet law degree and be an internet GM. Do you also have internet assistants?Quote:
Originally Posted by DMC
Spare time in your real life. Everyone who's here is here on spare time, whether or not they should be. You just think you're somehow more real because you can lie to yourself about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shastafarian
:lol then I need your secret. How do you have sooooooo much spare time? I don't have intricate (and disturbing to be honest) internet relationships so if that counts as "more real" then I'd agree with you.Quote:
Originally Posted by DMC
I never said I'm more real, I said you think you are. Relationships are relationships, face to face, letter, phone, internet... doesn't matter. I have so much spare time because I've positioned myself in life to be that way. I'm not fighting a shift leader for a day shift at the Gap or Taco Cabana.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shastafarian
because the trajectory of his player development is headed in the right direction. He is able to put his team's offense in favorable positions by both being able to score efficiently as well as being able to set up plays to get his teammates good looks, whether they be in the post or on the perimeter. I don't think he will be able to piggy-back a team to the NBA finals like LeBron did in 2007, but rather, if given the right components can be the leader of a championship caliber team. His ability to score on his own (and efficiently) was never questioned, but his improved ability to set up teammates cannot and should not be ignored ,and one can reasonably assume he will continue to improve in this area, given his age and year to year improvements.Quote:
Originally Posted by DMC
I think it is unfair to judge his lack of team success when his team's second best player is David Lee
Yeah and I was agreeing based on your definitions.Quote:
Originally Posted by DMC
What doesn't matter? Are you saying all relationships are the same? I'm going for my internet psych degree so please answer truthfully and with as much personal exposition as possible.Quote:
Relationships are relationships, face to face, letter, phone, internet... doesn't matter.
And yet you choose to spend that hard earned time online. Your own choice but don't claim it's just as real as the real world.Quote:
I have so much spare time because I've positioned myself in life to be that way. I'm not fighting a shift leader for a day shift at the Gap or Taco Cabana.
Shit it's late I gotta get to bed to be ready for my shift at Taco Cabana.
I didn't define "more real". You're the one who insinuated that people here take internet too seriously, and it's not real life. It is real life. You're really there responding and I am really here doing the same thing. It's a copout to say it's not. When Mono hosts his radio show, those are real people who call in and talk. The site owner is a real person.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shastafarian
It is the real world. There are people who get paid for what they do online. That's real. You can be imprisoned for what you do online. That's real. We're not talking about some fantasy world sim, this is just a forum. We use pseudonyms but we are real people.
Is this the real life? Is this just fantasy?
I don't know, I'm caught in a landslide... no escape from reality.Quote:
Originally Posted by spurraider21
Mark Jackson was a big part of this team motivation-wise. There was a way Warriors could of handled the situation better: have Mark Jackson step down as a head coach and be an assistant coach so he can still motivate the team, and hire another coach who can actually coach...
If all the team needs is some fake ass black preacher for motivation, they all need to be fired.
Demoting Jackson from head to assistant coach is much worse imo, especially considering his relative success as of late.Quote:
Originally Posted by sexinthatsx
The media and other basketball fans alike are really overrating Mark Jackson than what he actually is... the man had no coaching experience and was a commentator. He deserved to get fired simple because he's so horrible at post-timeout plays and late game-time situations, but the players need him to continue their development. Either way, this probably hurt the Warriors more than it helped them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spurs da champs
In the short term. If you fire your shitty lawn guy, your lawn goes neglected until you find a better one.Quote:
Originally Posted by sexinthatsx
Yes, we agree.Quote:
Originally Posted by DMC
All true. Doesn't make THIS PLACE real in the sense it is the real world. It's not. It's a place where a pakistani kid can be black or an old racist can be...ok that one is a bad example.Quote:
and it's not real life. It is real life. You're really there responding and I am really here doing the same thing. It's a copout to say it's not. When Mono hosts his radio show, those are real people who call in and talk. The site owner is a real person.
It's not.Quote:
It is the real world.
People get paid for being here? Truly?Quote:
There are people who get paid for what they do online. That's real.
Consequences are real. Doesn't = this place is real life. It's not.Quote:
You can be imprisoned for what you do online. That's real.
Explain the differences please.Quote:
We're not talking about some fantasy world sim, this is just a forum.
Prove it.Quote:
We use pseudonyms but we are real people.
So if I trace you down and post your personal information here, that's cool with you because this place isn't real so no harm can be done in unreal places.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shastafarian
While i appreciate Jackson is hurt and thinks he did a good job....
What is up with the embellishment?
"We got beat by a team with 2 top 10 players and a Hall of Fame coach"?
Since when the f is Doc 1 title Rivers a HOF coach?
Chrissy Paul top 10 :lol
Griffin i think has potential, i might put him in top 10 due to his athleticism.
Except the part of getting NBA to buy in and give 100% effort. Sure there are a few guys who are true innovators like Carlisle, Thibodeau and Spoelstra but for the most part what you guys see as some sort of savante is really a guy that can understand and piggy back off of the X's and O's of others. Those are a hell of a lot easier to find than someone that can inspire the rank and file of the NBA.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chinook
2 playoff appearances and a 2nd round appearance are pretty good for a 3 year stretch.
Quite the opposite and you clearly don't understand what I'm saying. This place isn't the real world. It certainly exists. But it not being the real world means I don't want my personal information posted. Is that hard to understand? But hey, I enjoy a stalker as much as the next guy :lolQuote:
Originally Posted by DMC
I'll say this. You are good at steering arguments you know you can't win. Never got your opinion on the best player on the 2011 Mavs other than "it wasn't a PG".
This is what happens when you cannot upwards manage.
Nobody pays $450M so that they can cower with fear of their employees. You don't listen, or at least consider, the suggestions of the person who signs your paycheques, you are gone, no matter how talented you are.
To top it off, he's not that talented as a coach to begin with.
The direct opposite is Isiah Thomas, he lasted a long time as a GM/coach despite clear evidence that he is incompetent in either jobs, because he built a strong relationship with upper management.
This lesson applies in real life too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shastafarian
It's a stupid question. Unlike you, I cannot be steered.
Why is it a stupid question?
and people were predicting golden state to go to the WCF this season :lol