It hasn't been stated enough, but Kawhi Leonard Is more Valuable than Manu..

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Originally Posted by Cowboys_Wear_Spurs

Wow, so being up 5 points with 28 seconds and your blaming Manu for the lack of runs. And Parker missing like 12 shots in the 2nd half didn't stop the Spurs from making runs. Love the logic.

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Manu's TO's kept that game from being wide open, Parker certainly had something to do with the loss, however I somewhat give him a pass considering he was injured. The Spurs could've easily and I mean easily blown that game wide open, Manu completely halted the offense, as he did yesterday.

Either way Manu was pretty bad the entire playoffs, even in the GS series where he played "well".

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Originally Posted by Kidd K

You aren't looking in the wrong places. Nearly everyone either turned on Manu or stopped backing him/being a fan.

3 years ago I felt MUCH differently about him than I do now. He has not aged gracefully. I still appreciate what he did, and the lesser extent of it that he does now, but honestly, I don't get excited for big Manu games anymore. He shat the bed and was the worst player on the team by far during the game that we should have won the title in. He literally can't make up for it unless we're getting steamrolled in the Finals this year and he puts us on his back and carries us to multiple wins while playing way above his head. Nothing else will undo it for me. Even that barely will since we should be going for #6 this year, not #5.

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him aging is not the issue. everyone gets older and doens't play as good as they did in their prime, but ginobli is STILL taking bad shots and trying to do too much at his age now. he thinks it's 2005 and it's not. he gets in the game and starts to turn the ball over, taking bad 3 point shots, flopping all over the place and it screws with us on offense.

People forget Manu was the best player in the fourth quarter of game seven. Down by 4, Manu hits the big 3, steals the ball and makes a nice Euro in to cut the lead to one. People also forget that Timmy didn't run the PNR, which caused that horrible TO by Manu..

Too much hate. He's not as valuable to the team as Leonard... but he is still the better all-around player IMO.

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Originally Posted by ElNono

Gino had some kind words about Leonard and Danny after yesterday's game. I'll try to find them.

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here we go sir

"What Patty (Mills) did today was outstanding," Ginobili said. "Patty, Danny, and Kawhi, especially, were fantastic. We struggled all series in the third quarters, and they really stepped up. They were aggressive, getting steals, running the transition and ones we got that lead back to 20, it kind of felt like it was over."

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Originally Posted by KL2

Manu's TO's kept that game from being wide open, Parker certainly had something to do with the loss, however I somewhat give him a pass considering he was injured. The Spurs could've easily and I mean easily blown that game wide open, Manu completely halted the offense, as he did yesterday.

Either way Manu was pretty bad the entire playoffs, even in the GS series where he played "well".

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Do you guys hear yourselves? "Manu's 2 TO's the entire game caused the game to not be a blowout". Stop picking and choosing. Literally any team would love to have Manu's services..

:lol at the continual gnashing of teeth over Manu's supposed turnover woes.

The bitching about shot selection is kind of warranted, but not the turnovers as it's really not different than it's ever been with Manu.

Manu is averaging 2.8 TOPG in these playoffs. That's less than Parker (3.0).

Now, let's look at Manu's TOPG in the playoffs throughout his career. You'll see that this year is better than some years, but mostly in line with his entire career. Manu is a high-risk, high-reward player. Duh.

2002-2003: 1.5
2003-2004: 2.5
2004-2005: 2.9 (Manu's God-mode playoff run)
2005-2006: 2.5
2006-2007: 2.1
2007-2008: 2.8
2008-2009: DNP (Injured)
2009-2010: 3.0
2010-2011: 3.4
2011-2012: 3.0
2012-2013: 2.7
2013-2014: 2.8

So, right now he is averaging the second-least turnovers committed since the Spurs last won the LOB.

Now, his shooting percentage right now (39%) is another story, but that's neither here, nor there... :downspin:

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Originally Posted by jARS mEsH sEt

It doesn't matter when the mistake happened. All that matters is that it happened. Again, no player ever plays a perfect game so everyone is culpable to some degree. Parker shot like ass for the game. That's a mistake. Leonard missed a game winning free throw. That's a mistake. Pop pulled Duncan for the last play. That's a mistake...in hindsight.

Manu missed a game winning free throw. That's a mistake. Manu turned the ball over. That's a mistake. Manu turned the ball over..again. That's a mistake. Manu turned the ball over..again. That's a mistake. Manu turned the ball over.. yet again. That's a mistake. Manu then proceeded to turn the ball over another time. That's a mistake. Manu then followed up that gaffe by..you guessed it..turning the ball over, yet again. He then proceeded to turn the ball over, which flowed naturally into turning the ball over.

We we lost a ring because of Manu.

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And we won three with him, two because of him. I'll take it.

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Originally Posted by N0 LyF3 ScRuB

And we won three with him, two because of him. I'll take it.

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We won one because of him (2005), lost one because of him (2013), and potentially lost one because of him (2006), although to be brutally honest with the way Wade was treated during that series we may not have beaten Miami in '06 so that one deserves a *.

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Originally Posted by Brazil

here we go sir

"What Patty (Mills) did today was outstanding," Ginobili said. "Patty, Danny, and Kawhi, especially, were fantastic. We struggled all series in the third quarters, and they really stepped up. They were aggressive, getting steals, running the transition and ones we got that lead back to 20, it kind of felt like it was over."

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Thank you. I read it last night and couldn't find the quote.

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Originally Posted by james evans

him aging is not the issue. everyone gets older and doens't play as good as they did in their prime, but ginobli is STILL taking bad shots and trying to do too much at his age now. he thinks it's 2005 and it's not. he gets in the game and starts to turn the ball over, taking bad 3 point shots, flopping all over the place and it screws with us on offense.

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Is what we have for good and bad, when he played great against Dallas nobody said a thing, he took shots, attacked the rim and tony helped the last 2 games.
Against Dallas Manu took the risk because our young promises (belli, patty and boris who is not so young anyway) were failing.
When role dudes sucks Manu feels he needs to do things and sometimes he screws it but it worked for game 5, people tend to forget Danny Tony and Gary shitting the bed in game 6, Manu was horrible and he missed the freebie, and so Kawhi, the pressure was too much it doesnt matter if he made 20 points he missed too.
Add to the mix Pop benching Duncan and refs swallowing whistles on Gay Ray 2 times the last 40 seconds and you have a big Turd Cake.
Bandwagoners needs to be objective just like pigs needs to fly.

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Originally Posted by superjames1992

:lol at the continual gnashing of teeth over Manu's supposed turnover woes.

The bitching about shot selection is kind of warranted, but not the turnovers as it's really not different than it's ever been with Manu.

Manu is averaging 2.8 TOPG in these playoffs. That's less than Parker (3.0).

Now, let's look at Manu's TOPG in the playoffs throughout his career. You'll see that this year is better than some years, but mostly in line with his entire career. Manu is a high-risk, high-reward player. Duh.

2002-2003: 1.5
2003-2004: 2.5
2004-2005: 2.9 (Manu's God-mode playoff run)
2005-2006: 2.5
2006-2007: 2.1
2007-2008: 2.8
2008-2009: DNP (Injured)
2009-2010: 3.0
2010-2011: 3.4
2011-2012: 3.0
2012-2013: 2.7
2013-2014: 2.8

So, right now he is averaging the second-least turnovers committed since the Spurs last won the LOB.

Now, his shooting percentage right now (39%) is another story, but that's neither here, nor there... :downspin:

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His turnovers per game are down because Pop is sitting him, finally. After he sparks the other team to a run with bad shots and turnovers he gets the hook. Finally. Thank gawd.

and TOPG is meaningless without context. A game or two with no turnovers in a blowout cannot makeup for a Game Six with eight and a lost title.

I was pretty hesitant to say that all year considering how much Manu facilitates the 2nd unit, but I'd agree with the statement now. He's the only person on the team who can do the things he does, and what he does is get us easy baskets and a great defender for elite wing players. He's really starting to look like a star

There's a reason why Manu is getting so many TOs: the Spurs don't include him on the pick and rolls and rotation offenses. Manu's in the game for one reason, to become a disruptor for the other team. Manu's the reason that when teams figure out the double and triple screens, he'll be the guy to throw up untimely shots to keep the defenders on their toes and guessing throughout the game. While letting Manu do this, the Spurs have a huge advantage, but it's also a big disadvantage in that Manu doesn't know where the players are running to and their spots.

I said it before, and I'll say it again... a lot of Manu's turnovers during game 6 of the finals was NOT HIS FAULT. It was the result of all the other players clenching their assholes and scared to get another turnover on motion plays. As a result, when Manu passes the ball to where the teammates are running to, they suddenly stop since they're so scared to get the ball stolen. The ball then goes out of bounds or becomes a turnover. Manu's the one registering the turnovers, but it's seriously not his fault - it's the system's flaw.

Kawhi's importance is somewhere in between Green and Mills

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Originally Posted by spurraider21

Kawhi's importance is somewhere in between Green and Mills

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Yeah I bet it is nigga

http://www.deverillweekes.com/blog/w...hn-ireland.jpg

Kawhi is the most important part of this team, Parker can go down and we still have a shot at the title no if Kawhi goes, its over trust me. NO ONE on the team can save us. No Mills, No Diaw, No Belli, No Tim, No Manu, No Green, NOBODY

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Originally Posted by wtgspurs

Kawhi is the most important part of this team, Parker can go down and we still have a shot at the title no if Kawhi goes, its over trust me. NO ONE on the team can save us. No Mills, No Diaw, No Belli, No Tim, No Manu, No Green, NOBODY

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:lol

NO.

Parker is the most important player on the team and it really isn't even debatable, tbh..... It's no coincidence that the Spurs lost games 6 and 7 in last year's Finals when Parker shot a combined 9-35 (25%), tbqh. As Parker goes, the Spurs go.

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Originally Posted by N0 LyF3 ScRuB

Do you guys hear yourselves? "Manu's 2 TO's the entire game caused the game to not be a blowout". Stop picking and choosing. Literally any team would love to have Manu's services..

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2 TO's? :lmao revisionist history

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Originally Posted by superjames1992

:lol

NO.

Parker is the most important player on the team and it really isn't even debatable, tbh..... It's no coincidence that the Spurs lost games 6 and 7 in last year's Finals when Parker shot a combined 9-35 (25%), tbqh. As Parker goes, the Spurs go.

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Lmao, Parker has never lead us to a championship and never will. PG's don't win championships period. Everyone knows his 2007 Finals MVP was a joke, taking advantage of Daniel "Boobie" Gibson :lol, that's some Kobe type shit tbh. Go back and you'll see the last PG Finals MVP was Billups, that year it took Kobe chucking LA out of the Finals. Before that you've got to go back to '90.


Look at what the franchise has done since they gave Parker the green light, 0 championships, year after year of this guy getting locked down by a long defender, the Spurs wondering why they lose :lmao. All these regular season wins don't matter, these consecutive playoff appearances don't mean shit, it's championship or bust.

You're supposed to learn from history, not repeat it, I'm not surprised by your dumb ass though.

I hope Manu breaks his fucking legs so these pathetic morons stop complaining. Stupid haters.

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Originally Posted by Pocho La Pantera

I hope Manu breaks his fucking legs so these pathetic morons stop complaining. Stupid haters.

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better than the haters die

Who gives a shit like fighting over which chick is hotter.........Glad we have both players for Manu to bring his experience and work ethic to the new guys and for the new guys to step up and take over the torch is nice to see.

Manu will always be one of my all time favorite Spur player and yes he is not the player he was but he has my respect. As far as his playing time that's on Pop if a player is not playing good than the coach can put in another player. The problem though is that Green does not have the handles to create like Manu does even at his age. So I guess he is rolling the dice....

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Originally Posted by KL2

Lmao, Parker has never lead us to a championship and never will. PG's don't win championships period. Everyone knows his 2007 Finals MVP was a joke, taking advantage of Daniel "Boobie" Gibson :lol, that's some Kobe type shit tbh. Go back and you'll see the last PG Finals MVP was Billups, that year it took Kobe chucking LA out of the Finals. Before that you've got to go back to '90.


Look at what the franchise has done since they gave Parker the green light, 0 championships, year after year of this guy getting locked down by a long defender, the Spurs wondering why they lose :lmao. All these regular season wins don't matter, these consecutive playoff appearances don't mean shit, it's championship or bust.

Yeah bro winning championships is just so easy...................:)

You're supposed to learn from history, not repeat it, I'm not surprised by your dumb ass though.

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Originally Posted by ElNono

Thank you. I read it last night and couldn't find the quote.

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you're welcome

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Originally Posted by Cowboys_Wear_Spurs

Zone, ever heard of it play a 4-1 zone and have Duncan guard the paint or the guy closest to the paint whoever, that might be. Never under any circumstances do you take out your best rebounder and shot blocker out in the final moments of a game. Both the Pacers and the Spurs learn that lesson the hard way last year.

And it wasn't hindsight for me. I knew the Pop was making a big mistake when he took Duncan out. Bosh shot 28% or something like that for the series. Were you really worry about him hitting a 3 at that point.

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Bosh did hit a game winning three earlier in the year against the Spurs. Parker also stunk in that game until he made what would have been championship winning plays down the stretch. Did the Heat take Lebron off him? No.

How on earth does having someone at the rim help when you KNOW they are shooting a three? Except if you're playing the 06 Mavs and Manu fouls Dirk on a drive to the hole for an and-1.

Very unlikely for the Heat to be going for two on the first possession given the timeout situation and that they were down 5. Down 4, I understand it.