The Leonard and Green duo

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Originally Posted by wildchild

The chart shows Leonard was on him 28 of 40 possesions, only 2 shots over him in the paint.

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Westbrook was close to the basket on more than just two occasions. I defined 'paint' above as the space between the FT circle ('FT' in the chart) and the charge circle ('circle' in the chart). All of the 'circle' and 'SC' (short-corner, which is the space along the baseline between the block and the arch) instances and a good deal of the 'FT' and 'elbow' instances were from within 10 feet from the basket. If you look at his non-Leonard possessions, you'll see he had no more success against anyone.

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You still think Leonard's defense had absolutely nothing to do with it, I still disagree.

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Eh, that's a mischaracterization of what I'm saying. Leonard did a good job on Westbrook. But all of the main Russ defenders except Ginobili had stronger series as a whole than Leonard did in Game Five. It's hard for me to accept that Kawhi made the difference, especially considering that Westbrook's teammates left literally 30 points off the board by missing easy shots or making ill-advised decisions with that ball.

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Thanks! I appreciate your effort tying to enlighten us!

It must be very hard for you that people -like me and some hundred thousands- still think Leonard was great on Westbrook.

So if you think you're the responsible for establishing the bases for the correct reading of the stats or just has a deniable Leonard great defense delirium...I'll support you. That's what we do here on ST, support each other.

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Well, I appreciate the compliment. What bothers is me that people who haven't rewatched the game as much as I have (especially with the intent to grade players) and who may not have even seen the game in four months make blanket statements about the game just because they want to believe Leonard's a better defender. The fact that the national media agrees with that assessment is not an endorsement to me, as they are even worse at making critical evaluations in lieu of easy generalizations. Hence why the TNT crew kept acting like Green on Durant was a mismatch for OKC despite the fact that Green has turned in great efforts on KD every time they've been matched up.

It doesn't how I break down the tape to show them they're wrong. They believe it simply because they want to.

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Originally Posted by Chinook

What bothers is me that people who haven't rewatched the game as much as I have (especially with the intent to grade players) and who may not have even seen the game in four months make blanket statements about the game just because they want to believe Leonard's a better defender.

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Well...maybe you're not the only guy who rewatched games. I shouldn't really tell you this -because I don't want to disappoint you- but many offseason threads on ST have shown a lot of people -including me- were rewatching Spurs playoffs games all summer.

However, I don't want to believe he's a better defender, I know he was great.

Leonard is one of the most versatile defender in the league and he does it on a consistent basis unlike Lebron who picks his days..He is argubly the best defender in the league in terms of versatility if we don't count lebron who defends once in every three games.

But I'd have to admit, I've always thought Danny was a better 1 defender.

As for wildchild and chinook, Leonard defended Durant better than Green when that was his assignment. Not talking about the series, just in general...

Green IMO is probably better suited to guard westbrook, but POP obviously had something else in mind..Kawhi has a tendency to give guards open space in the midrange...IMO, that's probably why he had leonard guarding westbrook, which goes along with their plan of letting westbrook do whatever the hell he wants to do. Imagine if Green Shutdown Westbrook, Durant would have had the ball!!

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Originally Posted by wildchild

Well...maybe you're not the only guy who rewatched games. I shouldn't really tell you this -because I don't want to disappoint you- but many offseason threads on ST have shown a lot of people -including me- were rewatching Spurs playoffs games all summer.

However, I don't want to believe he's a better defender, I know he was great.

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I haven't seen you present anything other than someone else's opinion for why Leonard did a superior job on Westbrook. You may well have rewatched the game, but you haven't given me any critical analysis of it. I say Leonard wasn't a better defender and set to support it with hours of work. Other say he was better and proceed to sit on their haunches. I apologize if I get miffed at that.

But I don't mean to offend you. You've been a good sport even though we've been disagreeing on this for a couple of days. I hope you're not feeling like I'm attacking you.

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Originally Posted by apalisoc_9

As for wildchild and chinook, Leonard defended Durant better than Green when that was his assignment. Not talking about the series, just in general...

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I don't have a ton of issue with this. I think Leonard is a tailor-made Durant-stopper. Green did a good job against KD primarily because OKC kept trying to put Durant in the low post, which isn't KD's strong suit and something Green can defend due to his years of being a PF. Had they kept Durant on the high post/triple-threat position, I think the Thunder would have been more successful.

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Green IMO is probably better suited to guard westbrook, but POP obviously had something else in mind..Kawhi has a tendency to give guards open space in the midrange...IMO, that's probably why he had leonard guarding westbrook, which goes along with their plan of letting westbrook do whatever the hell he wants to do. Imagine if Green Shutdown Westbrook, Durant would have had the ball!!

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I think Pop wanted Leonard on Westbrook because he anticipated a Russ/KD PnR. The Spurs would switch that, which would put Kawhi on Durant and Green on Westbrook. In the previous games, Parker and Leonard got confused over how to defend the 1/3 PnR, and Westbrook kept getting into the paint because the two Spurs kept going to Durant. However, Brooks went away from the 1/3 PnR in the last two games, because he didn't want the Spurs to switch it. He thought that Westbrook had the advantage over Kawhi and Durant had it over Green.

He ended up being dead wrong.

Kawhi's defense on westbrook was great and anyone trying to deny that is a loony.

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Originally Posted by Chinook

I haven't seen you present anything other than someone else's opinion for why Leonard did a superior job on Westbrook. You may well have rewatched the game, but you haven't given me any critical analysis of it. I say Leonard wasn't a better defender and set to support it with hours of work. Other say he was better and proceed to sit on their haunches.

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Casually I agree with those guys, their voices are my voice, too. I don't need make a critical analysis to disagree in a constructive way because I don't want to convince you, like I've said before I just respond to your opinion.

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Originally Posted by dabom

Kawhi's defense on westbrook was great and anyone trying to deny that is a loony.

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I know, but I like to listen the people who disagree with me, maybe the guy who disagrees with me is probably the most valuable guy, he forces me to re-examine my point, and helps me to keep and strengthen my view.

For example, after reading the chart, I feel even more convinced what I said about Leonard defense was right.

So yes, you/me/a lot of people know he was great, but if a guy disagrees with us, he isn't a loony, he's just wrong.

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Originally Posted by apalisoc_9

IMO, that's probably why he had leonard guarding westbrook, which goes along with their plan of letting westbrook do whatever the hell he wants to do. Imagine if Green Shutdown Westbrook, Durant would have had the ball!!

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For real kid? I'm so disappointed in you. You're indirectly saying Westbrook can do what he wants if Leonard defending him...I would expect this from anyone but you.

Damn. I was thinking of naming my first child -boy or girl- Kawhi or Apalisoc. Now apalisoc is not an option. No more.

:p:

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Originally Posted by Chinook

I think Pop wanted Leonard on Westbrook because he anticipated a Russ/KD PnR. The Spurs would switch that, which would put Kawhi on Durant and Green on Westbrook. In the previous games, Parker and Leonard got confused over how to defend the 1/3 PnR, and Westbrook kept getting into the paint because the two Spurs kept going to Durant. However, Brooks went away from the 1/3 PnR in the last two games, because he didn't want the Spurs to switch it. He thought that Westbrook had the advantage over Kawhi and Durant had it over Green.

He ended up being dead wrong.

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Yup, Pop had the option to put Kawhi back on durant though after game 5. While Initially, the plan was to counter the PnR..Pop probably liked what he saw from Westbrook and his inability to get an MVP player involved as much as he should.

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Originally Posted by wildchild

For real kid? I'm so disappointed in you. You're indirectly saying Westbrook can do what he wants if Leonard defending him...I would expect this from anyone but you.

Damn. I was thinking of naming my first child -boy or girl- Kawhi or Apalisoc. Now apalisoc is not an option. No more.

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I think it's more of a compliment to kawhi more than anything tbh. What's the point of being hardnosed, if you can allow the opposing player to deny the best offensive option they have..Kawhi when guarding guards has always been about using his reach..He tempts them to shoot..

It just so happens that westbrook is 6'6..Kawhi will learn..Imo, he's going to be the best defender in the league.

I should use the blue font more often...

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Originally Posted by apalisoc_9

It just so happens that westbrook is 6'6..Kawhi will learn..Imo, he's going to be the best defender in the league.

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I thought he was like 6'3? Was looking at a skills challenge pic with him standing next to other PG's, Wall is slightly taller than him he's 6'4 I think.

Lol Westbrook is definitely nowhere near 6'6". He's a little over 6'3" with shoes on.

Wing stop

LDN is massively underrated. Compliments Kawhi perfectly.