Why is oil over $65 a barrel right now?

Oil surges to $66 a barrel
Crude reaches another historic mark after demand agency forecast, refinery snags and Iran concerns.
August 11, 2005: 12:18 PM EDT
LONDON (Reuters) - U.S. crude and gasoline futures rose to all-time highs Thursday as dealers continued to worry about gasoline supply amid refinery snags, sliding inventories and worries over Iran's nuclear ambitions.

NYMEX September crude hit a record $66 a barrel before easing to $65.55, up 65 cents. The previous intraday record of $65 was set Wednesday.

September gasoline traded up 2.87 cents to $1.925 after setting a record at $1.955 per gallon, while U.S. heating oil futures surged 2.62 cents to $1.865 after reached a record $1.903 per gallon on refinery woes.

London Brent was up 92 cents at $64.91 after touching a record $65.66.

Earlier the International Energy Agency said non-OPEC output was falling short of expectations, compounding supply concerns.

"The presence of significant headline risk, most particularly from Iran's international relations, the Atlantic hurricane season and from tightness in refining, is continuing to support prices at higher levels," said Barclays Capital.

In Vienna, the board of governors of the International Atomic Energy Agency approved a resolution demanding that Iran suspend all nuclear activities, a diplomat said.

EU diplomats said if OPEC's second biggest producer failed to comply with the resolution they would push for Iran to be referred to the UN Security Council for punitive action.

Oil prices have risen in nine of the past 11 sessions as the market has been edgy over possible disruptions to exports from Iran and Saudi Arabia, OPEC's two-largest oil producers. (Full story.)

A security threat forced the United States to shut its missions in top exporter Saudi Arabia for two days earlier this week. And OPEC's second biggest producer Iran is pushing ahead with its nuclear work in defiance of the European Union.

With the oil cartel pumping almost flat out, lead producer Saudi Arabia alone holds significant spare production capacity.

Refinery strain In the United States, where refinery problems have strained gasoline stocks during the peak demand season, BP (up $0.13 to $70.71, Research) shut several units at its Texas City refinery, a source familiar with the plant's operation said.

And ConocoPhillips (up $0.71 to $66.35, Research) Wood River refinery suffered a power problem, market trading sources said.

The news came on the heels of U.S. stock data on Wednesday that showed another fall in gasoline inventories in the world's biggest consumer.

Edward Meir of Man Energy said oil price forecasts were running the gamut. "In markets like these, it is best to let things run their course, especially given the fact that there are no resistance 'signposts' to guide us."

The International Energy Agency, adviser to 26 industrialized nations, earlier nudged up its world oil demand growth forecasts for this year and next, leaving already stretched OPEC to fill the supply void.

The IEA cut non-OPEC supply growth this year by 205,000 barrels per day, with production problems in the U.S. Gulf, Mexico, Norway and Britain accounting for most of the shortfall. Russia is also pumping less than expected.

"The extent to which (the IEA) felt compelled to cut its estimates of non-OPEC production is a bullish factor," said Deborah White, senior energy analyst at SG Commodities.

Even with U.S. crude averaging above $53 a barrel for the year to date, in real terms prices are still below the $80 a barrel average of 1980, after the Iranian revolution.

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Even with U.S. crude averaging above $53 a barrel for the year to date, in real terms prices are still below the $80 a barrel average of 1980, after the Iranian revolution.

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So, eating horse shit is much better than cow shit. :lol

AAA is warning of record gas prices as soon as this weekend...

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NEW YORK (Reuters) - U.S. drivers, already paying the highest retail gasoline prices on record, should expect further increases at the nations pumps due to skyrocketing costs for crude oil and a flurry of recent refinery problems, the AAA motorists group said on Thursday. "We think American drivers should brace themselves for a fairly large increase, as soon as this weekend," said Geoff Sundstrom, AAA spokesman. "It could be an increase of around five cents a gallon nationwide."

Prices at the pumps are already zipping along at a record near $2.40 a gallon on average, up more than a dime from last month, according to the AAA's daily survey of 60,000 stations. But a recent surge in the cost of crude oil to $66 a barrel, and a spate of problems at the nation's refineries, from California to the Gulf Coast, will mean further steep increases in fuel prices.

"The price of crude oil is a big reason pump prices are in record high territory," said Sundstrom. "On the other hand, we have a long-term issue to resolve with regards to refining capacity. With fires and operational problems of various kinds recently, it looks like gasoline supplies have become crimped," he said.

Around 10 U.S. refineries have reported unplanned unit shutdowns since mid-July. Refineries typically become more prone to outages in late-summer as they try to keep up with strong demand. While U.S. retail gasoline prices are at a record in nominal terms, when adjusted for inflation they remain below the peak of around $3 a gallon hit in the early 1980s.

© Reuters 2005. All Rights Reserved.

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Reuters


Ouch!

electricity =regualted
natural gas=regulated
water=regulated

why isn't gas more regulated?
compaines with all time high profits

if they are making to much profit they could loser price

simple this is price guaaging

Actually, this is a free market it work. Perhaps you should look up the world collusion before you start throwing it around.

Cheap gas is not a constitutional right. Companies do, however, have a right to make money.

all I am saying is if you are going to regualted the price of elecrcity why cannot you regualte gas prices.

Maybe the problem is you shouldn't regulate the price of electricty either?

Maybe it wouldn't be very profitable/practical if other companies had to string their own power lines. Otherwise, there has be deregulation of electical companies and you can buy energy from a company over existing lines put up by another company.

In terms of price, I don't know how much regulation goes on. I know CP&L charges almost twice per kW/hr than GVTC, but I am not on their lines and do not think the Co-op operates on third party lines. I am currently looking into it.

Why do gas prices go higher when the oil companies fuck up and have problems at refineries

why must we pay for their fuckups

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Why do gas prices go higher when the oil companies fuck up and have problems at refineries

why must we pay for their fuckups

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It's called supply and demand.

Of course, for someone who creams himself over the greatness of tu 24-7, you'd think he'd understand simple economic theory.

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Originally Posted by Cant_Be_Faded

Why do gas prices go higher when the oil companies fuck up and have problems at refineries

why must we pay for their fuckups

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What fuck ups? And how are you paying for fuckups? If a company has a refinery problem, I guarntee you it is costing them more money than it is making them.

Since it equates to supply and demand, I wonder how many on this board(or the country for that matter), have even considered lowering their consumption. I'll bet not too many! Thats the problem.....just pay the price and continue to bitch. If everyone in this country would lower their consumption by 10 gallons per week, we just might see the price come down. Just a thought!

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Originally Posted by Aggie Hoopsfan

It's called supply and demand.

Of course, for someone who creams himself over the greatness of tu 24-7, you'd think he'd understand simple economic theory.

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keep it in the aggie fight song thread, or get bent
you guys still lost to BAYLOR

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What fuck ups? And how are you paying for fuckups? If a company has a refinery problem, I guarntee you it is costing them more money than it is making them.

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when that refinery in florida or on the gulf coast somewhere had an accident, gas went up 15 cents the very next day in austin

it was a fuck up i think, the workers' incompetence. We pay the extra gas cuz of all that. It makes sense that they're still losing more money overall in the short term because of the refinery problem.

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Since it equates to supply and demand, I wonder how many on this board(or the country for that matter), have even considered lowering their consumption. I'll bet not too many! Thats the problem.....just pay the price and continue to bitch. If everyone in this country would lower their consumption by 10 gallons per week, we just might see the price come down. Just a thought!

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I live 5 minutes from work in city (Dallas) where the average commute is 45 minutes. I fill up once a month :D

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keep it in the aggie fight song thread, or get bent
you guys still lost to BAYLOR

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:lol Every streak has to end at some point. We had won 20 straight. tu had lost to Baylor since '85 when we started owning Baylor. It was a fluke (kind of like you having a point in any discussion on this board).

Why the fuck would they cut profits?

I don't want them to cut profits. I want this country to pay for the damn oil they use, so that they'll start to use less of it. I want oil execs rolling in the money so that when there is 4 dollar gas people will actually start looking into car pooling, hybrid cars, and mass transit.

why people dont already car pool is beyond me. my mother's been carpooling for over 20 years

i take the bus to school, on a typical day, and hardly use my car at all

mass transit would be the best thing to do, in fact texas would be 3lit3 if it had a metropolis-to-metropolis train system or super japanesesque train

i don't see that stuff happening though, people are just gonna keep bitching about the oil companies and using lots of gas

Then they are going to get poor as fuck. Especially those assholes in Tahoes.

adjusted for inflation, oil would have to be over $90 a barrel to be record setting.

also, if you can't afford to drive, then take the bus...

I'm kinda with Manny on this one - when it really gets up there, the chorus for alternative energy/hybrid engines will be deafening.

Fuck cars .. .look how much fuel a Jet takes...
It's only a matter of time b4 we suck it dry (all the oil)..

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Originally Posted by MannyIsGod

Maybe the problem is you shouldn't regulate the price of electricty either?

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Sure, and let the assholes charge any price they want. May not be terrible in competing markets, but there are areas with no alternative. Also, when California deregulated, the electricity bills skyrocketed, doubling in some areas. Free market capatilism can only be beneficial to everyone when the owning class has a conscience. Therefore, I think regulation of some resources are necessary.

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Originally Posted by cecil collins

Sure, and let the assholes charge any price they want. May not be terrible in competing markets, but there are areas with no alternative. Also, when California deregulated, the electricity bills skyrocketed, doubling in some areas. Free market capatilism can only be beneficial to everyone when the owning class has a conscience. Therefore, I think regulation of some resources are necessary.

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In other words, the free market laws that work in every other aspect don't work for electricty? Bullshit. There are no exceptions to the rule of supply and demand. Thats why it is a rule.

You want to see alternative energies and energy consumption? You want to see the level of CO2 emmited by the US come down? Deregulate the prices and allow a proper free market system to raise the price and not keep it artifically low.

However, I will agree there should be competition in place.

actually, they don't... not any company can just build power plants. just like cable... there is only one cable company accessible to all.. grande still barely covers any of san antonio...

cecil I was just about to post something like that

basicly what happeend with electricity with enron in calfi is happening with oil

artifically the price is getting mulitpilated

What Enron did was flat out illegal, and that should be watched over. But that is not the same as deregulation itself. Government mediation within markets ends up costing the consumer in the long run.

Democrats want to bitch about the environment and they want cheap energy too. You can't have it both ways and you have to pay for something of that nature.

just think of the energy we'd be saving if true enviromentalist actually practiced what they'd preach... less cars on the roads with save our planet stickers on them, less light pollution at night since they wouldn't be buy energy from the evil energy companies and less liberals online since they wouldn't be buying ISP access from the evil corporate communication companies... bah..

haha... but so, soo true!

I don't see how Republicans can sit around and gloat about how they are selling us out to the Chinese with debt, making us all even more oil dependent on MIddle East oil, and coming soon, indentured slaves to credit companies, but it seems to me that the enviromental types are the ones REALLY solving the worlds problems...not the corporations.

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CORTE MADERA, Calif. -- Politicians and automakers say a car that can both reduce greenhouse gases and free America from its reliance on foreign oil is years or even decades away. Ron Gremban says such a car is parked in his garage.

It looks like a typical Toyota Prius hybrid, but in the trunk sits an 80-miles-per-gallon secret - a stack of 18 brick-sized batteries that boosts the car's high mileage with an extra electrical charge so it can burn even less fuel.

Gremban, an electrical engineer and committed environmentalist, spent several months and $3,000 tinkering with his car.

Like all hybrids, his Prius increases fuel efficiency by harnessing small amounts of electricity generated during braking and coasting. The extra batteries let him store extra power by plugging the car into a wall outlet at his home in this San Francisco suburb - all for about a quarter.

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more...

Seattle.PI

that is nothing. for 800 bux anyone with a diesel vehicle can convert their car to burn used cooking oil that restaurants pay companies to haul away.

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hat is nothing. for 800 bux anyone with a diesel vehicle can convert their car to burn used cooking oil that restaurants pay companies to haul away.

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You just don't get the meaning of words 'environmentally friendly', do you?

batteries are worse for the environment than anything else.. how evironmentally friendly are they?

:lmao

it's been 24 hrs.. what is your reponse to this nbadan?

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Originally Posted by MannyIsGod

Then they are going to get poor as fuck. Especially those assholes in Tahoes.

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Why do you and others continue to attack tahoe owners? Have you done any research as you preach to others? My Tahoe gets 21 MPG and that is considerably better than some of the others. Is it just because you can't afford one? Get an intellegent take on this.

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Originally Posted by Clandestino

that is nothing. for 800 bux anyone with a diesel vehicle can convert their car to burn used cooking oil that restaurants pay companies to haul away.

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Calf tongue used to be cheap until the people found out it was actually a delicacy. Your used vegetable oil would follow the same course.

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Originally Posted by MannyIsGod

Especially those assholes in Tahoes.

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Let's put the blame where it belongs:


Least Efficient Pickup Trucks
Dodge Ram1500 Pickup, 2WD 10 cyl, 8.3 L, Auto(4) 9C/ 12H

Least Efficient Sport Utility Vehicles
Mercedes-Benz G55 AMG, 4WD 8 cyl, 5.4 L, Auto(5) 12C/ 14 H

Least Efficient Minivans
Kia Sedona, 6 cyl, 3.5 L, Auto(5) 16C/ 22H

Least Efficient Passenger Vans
Ford E150 Club Wagon , RWD 8 cyl, 5.4 L, Auto(4) 13C/ 17H

Least Efficient Cargo Vans
Chevrolet Astro , AWD 6 cyl, 4.3 L, Auto(4) 14C/ 17H
Ford E150 Econoline, 2WD 8cyl, 5.4 L, Auto(4) 14C/ 17H
GMC Safari , AWD 6 cyl, 4.3 L, Auto(4) 14C/ 17H

Chevy Tahoe:
MPG: City: 16 Highway: 20

:lmao

Ok, Ok, my bad.

Tahoe is the generic word we use for an SUV based on the popularity. But I will correct myself. According to Joch's stats, all the Dodge Ram driving assholes will be poor as fuck.

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Originally Posted by MannyIsGod

Government mediation within markets ends up costing the consumer in the long run.

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Are you sure about this? Why must it cost in the long run?

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indentured slaves to credit companies,

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don't remind me

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Let's put the blame where it belongs:

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its more because Tahoes are like the SUV poster boy

Look at the Energy Bill that was just passed CBF. That is mediation in the market. The government is trying to control the energy market by passing tax brakes and credits in order to pursuade companies to do certain things.

And what sucks most of all, is that energy bill gets press for having a hybrid car tax credit, but what is overlooked is how much money is giving to the companies in the form of exploration and drilling tax breaks.

So, we lose the tax money that comes in. Thats not that big of a deal, the government wouldn't spend it well.

And in exchange for a shitty hybrid tax credit, the oil companies get a shitload of breaks.

Anything run by the government is inevitably run very poorly. Look at SS. Private firms would have turned that money and made it profitable very easily but the government doesn't do shit but SPEND it. There were tons of safe investments that would have allowed that money to grow.

Take government provided health care. Canda's system has wait times of over a month to see a damn doctor for a simple procedure and the costs run at an astronomical rate because people do not have to choose when a doctors visit is nessecary. When it is "free" it is always nessecary.

If the government intervenes in today's oil markets - more than it is already doing - it will only serve to hurt us. Cheaper oil is going to mean more consumption, and a smaller damned for renewable energy. And if it subsidized by the government, then thats money we are spending either way in taxes.

This government's job isn't to provide cheap commidities.

I see.
But it's difficult to get the public to accept the idea of non-artificially low gas prices, because we've had them our whole lives. I remember spending .89. even in the .70's once.
If we did let the companies set their own price in accordance with demand, and gas went sky high, wouldn't you get pissed off Manny? Or would you be satisified knowing that people are finally 'paying' for their gas?

There are things I do (sometimes, not weekly or anything) that I would not be able to do if gas went to like 5 dollars a gallon or something like that.

What this country needs is an alternative fuel. Back in the oil crisis of the 70s and maybe early 80s, there was a fuel being sold for automobiles that was made from corn, I think. The name was ethanol? Anybody remember this. I don't know why they quit selling it---maybe it was not economically feasible to produce.

They still make ethanol fuel. I know of a company, I believe called FS(farm services) that has pumps that sell it. I don't know if just anyone can use it, and it is some miles away from where I live. I think that the government runs more effectively than we think. Who is hurt most during a recession? The poor, and it's not by accident. While the fat cats are getting loans, and tax cuts out the ass, the working class poor get laid off, cut off from unemployment, and a tax refund of 300(oh wow) dollars. Next more jobs are created, but the wages are depressed due to high unemployment rates. A lot of the good jobs, are now barely living wage jobs in an underdeveloped nation.

shrub's paymasters in the oil companies aren't into non-oil energy, duh. They'r makin windfall $B's with oil at current prices. The energy bill, more corporate welfare with $15B in tax breaks for energy companies rolling in unearned, inflated oil profits.

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August 5, 2005


Too Much Pork and Too Little Sugar

By THOMAS L. FRIEDMAN

Wow, I am so relieved that Congress has finally agreed on an energy bill. Now that's out of the way, maybe Congress will focus on solving our energy problem.

Sorry to be so cynical, but an energy bill that doesn't enjoin our auto companies to sharply improve their mileage standards is just not serious. This bill is what the energy expert Gal Luft calls "the sum of all lobbies." While it contains some useful provisions, it also contains massive pork slabs dished out to the vested interests who need them least - like oil companies - and has no overarching strategy to deal with the new world.

And the world has changed in the past few years. First, the global economic playing field is being leveled, and millions of people who were out of the game - from China, India and the former Soviet empire - are now walking onto the field, each dreaming of a house, a car, a toaster and a microwave. As they move from low-energy to high-energy consumers, they are becoming steadily rising competitors with us for oil.

Second, we are in a war. It is a war against open societies mounted by Islamo-fascists, who are nurtured by mosques, charities and madrasas preaching an intolerant brand of Islam and financed by medieval regimes sustained by our oil purchases.

Yes, we are financing both sides in the war on terrorism: our soldiers and the fascist terrorists. George Bush's failure, on the morning after 9/11, to call on Americans to accept a gasoline tax to curb our oil imports was one of the greatest wasted opportunities in U.S. history.

Does the energy bill begin to remedy that? Hardly. It doesn't really touch the auto companies, which have used most of the technological advances of the last two decades to make our cars bigger and faster, rather than more fuel-efficient. Congress even rejected the idea of rating tires for fuel efficiency, which might have encouraged consumers to buy the most fuel-efficient treads.

The White House? It blocked an amendment that would have required the president to find ways to cut oil use by one million barrels a day by 2015 - on the grounds that it might have required imposing better fuel economy on our carmakers.

We need a strategic approach to energy. We need to redesign work so more people work at home instead of driving in; we need to reconfigure our cars and mass transit; we need a broader definition of what we think of as fuel. And we need a tax policy that both entices, and compels, U.S. firms to be innovative with green energy solutions. This is going to be a huge global industry - as China and India become high-impact consumers - and we should lead it.

Many technologies that could make a difference are already here - from hybrid engines to ethanol. All that is needed is a gasoline tax of $2 a gallon to get consumers and Detroit to change their behavior and adopt them. As Representative Edward Markey noted, auto fuel economy peaked at 26.5 miles per gallon in 1986, and "we've been going backward every since" - even though we have the technology to change that right now. "This is not rocket science," he rightly noted. "It's auto mechanics."

It's also imagination. "During the 1973 Arab oil embargo Brazil was importing almost 80 percent of its fuel supply," notes Mr. Luft, director of the Institute for the Analysis of Global Security. "Within three decades it cut its dependence by more than half. ... During that period the Brazilians invested massively in a sugar-based ethanol industry to the degree that about a third of the fuel they use in their vehicles is domestically grown. They also created a fleet that can accommodate this fuel." Half the new cars sold this year in Brazil will run on any combination of gasoline and ethanol. "Bringing hydrocarbons and carbohydrates to live happily together in the same fuel tank," he added, "has not only made Brazil close to energy independence, but has also insulated the Brazilian economy from the harming impact of the current spike in oil prices."

The new energy bill includes support for corn-based ethanol, but, bowing to the dictates of the U.S. corn and sugar lobbies (which oppose sugar imports), it ignores Brazilian-style sugar-based ethanol, even though it takes much less energy to make and produces more energy than corn-based ethanol. We are ready to import oil from Saudi Arabia but not sugar from Brazil.

The sum of all lobbies. ...

It seems as though only a big crisis will force our country to override all the cynical lobbies and change our energy usage. I thought 9/11 was that crisis. It sure was for me, but not, it seems, for this White House, Congress or many Americans. Do we really have to wait for something bigger in order to get smarter?


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The Republican insanity continues.

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Originally Posted by cecil collins

They still make ethanol fuel. I know of a company, I believe called FS(farm services) that has pumps that sell it. I don't know if just anyone can use it, and it is some miles away from where I live. I think that the government runs more effectively than we think. Who is hurt most during a recession? The poor, and it's not by accident. While the fat cats are getting loans, and tax cuts out the ass, the working class poor get laid off, cut off from unemployment, and a tax refund of 300(oh wow) dollars. Next more jobs are created, but the wages are depressed due to high unemployment rates. A lot of the good jobs, are now barely living wage jobs in an underdeveloped nation.

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I think you're on crack. Give me one example of where they do this.

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Originally Posted by beirmeistr

What this country needs is an alternative fuel. Back in the oil crisis of the 70s and maybe early 80s, there was a fuel being sold for automobiles that was made from corn, I think. The name was ethanol? Anybody remember this. I don't know why they quit selling it---maybe it was not economically feasible to produce.

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They still do sell it. You can get some in the flat-country but the octane level is wrong for most cars. Either way, ethanol is not the long term solution either because it takes much effort and ironically enough, oil to convert, what is it? Wheat? Whatever into ethanol fuel. Nothing beats cheap oil. Only, it's not so cheap anymore.

I'm not sure I can provide an acceptable example, but let me know. A lot of what I spouted off is from one of Michael Parenti's book, and I'm not sure which. I can sometime skim and try to find his examples. If you mean corporations getting loans and tax cuts, look at the airline industry after 9-11. Nevermind all the profits from the good years, one terrible recession and big daddy government comes in with the handouts. What happens to factory Joe when he gets laid off and there are more people than jobs in his town. He can get 6 months of unemployment(that he paid into), but no big loans or handouts. Unemployment goes up, wages go down. I don't know if I did, or could answer your question, perhaps I just reaffirmed your belief that I'm on crack.

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Originally Posted by cecil collins

I'm not sure I can provide an acceptable example, but let me know. A lot of what I spouted off is from one of Michael Parenti's book, and I'm not sure which. I can sometime skim and try to find his examples. If you mean corporations getting loans and tax cuts, look at the airline industry after 9-11. Nevermind all the profits from the good years, one terrible recession and big daddy government comes in with the handouts. What happens to factory Joe when he gets laid off and there are more people than jobs in his town. He can get 6 months of unemployment(that he paid into), but no big loans or handouts. Unemployment goes up, wages go down. I don't know if I did, or could answer your question, perhaps I just reaffirmed your belief that I'm on crack.

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I don't see an example of 'efficient government' there. I see an example in the airline industry where companies are able to maintain their outdated, inefficient, unprofitable business models because they know the government will bail them out when things get bad. That doesn't help consumers or taxpayers. It helps employees in the short term, but inhibits growth in the long term that would create more jobs, and place upward pressure on wages as skilled workers become scarce.

As for factory Joe, now, rather than his plant closing and being replaced by one in Japan or Mexico, Joe lives in Ohio or Michigan and the new plant is in Texas or Alabama. Factory Joe could get his job back if his state had laws similar to the states whose economies are growing and creating high-paying jobs, but his area is over-regulated by government and is dominated by unions that have become corrupt and bloated, and are themselves in cahoots with the government.

Where government steps in and helps is in the short term. If somebody loses their job, they usually can't wait six months to a year without income, or just uproot their family and follow the jobs the way Sioux could follow the buffalo. But protectionist policies and regulation in the long term hurt the economy. If Washington had done more to thwart the import market for autombiles, for example, we still wouldn't have all these Toyota, Nissan, and Hyundai plants in the South creating all these new jobs.

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Originally Posted by MannyIsGod

Anything run by the government is inevitably run very poorly. Look at SS. Private firms would have turned that money and made it profitable very easily but the government doesn't do shit but SPEND it. There were tons of safe investments that would have allowed that money to grow.

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SS=RUNNING SURPLUSES
private pension funds=UNDERFUNDED, going bankrupt by being pushed onto a GOVERNMENT garunettee corportation

so in fact the government has contuined to make surpluses on socialk secruity currently and for a while and the busineesses are the ones that have had their great pension funds fail

the facts shwo the exact opposite of what you claimed

it was protectionistest policies they ae why forieng plants are in US

they are only allowed to import so many cars, however if the plants are in the US all cars don't count as imports since they are made here

question is is it mroe American to buy a japanese owened company car made in Texas or a Ford US owened company car made in mexico?

I think you have to say protectionism was a win there.

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Originally Posted by Hook Dem

If everyone in this country would lower their consumption by 10 gallons per week, we just might see the price come down. Just a thought!

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Originally Posted by Hook Dem

Why do you and others continue to attack tahoe owners? Have you done any research as you preach to others? My Tahoe gets 21 MPG and that is considerably better than some of the others. Is it just because you can't afford one? Get an intellegent take on this.

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Oh the irony of it all.

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Originally Posted by MannyIsGod

Why the fuck would they cut profits?

I don't want them to cut profits. I want this country to pay for the damn oil they use, so that they'll start to use less of it. I want oil execs rolling in the money so that when there is 4 dollar gas people will actually start looking into car pooling, hybrid cars, and mass transit.

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manny, i totally disagree with your oppinion. but i totally respect you for being honest.

It certainly would change the lifestyles of a lot of people. Perhaps there would be a reverse in the current flock to the suburbs. More people would live in the city, closer to work. They would probably walk/bike more, and maybe as a whole the nation would be in better shape.

***Tune of Kum-ba-yah begins to play in the background***
Furthermore, with an influx of people back to the cities, the racial divide would be less extreme. Whites and blacks and Hispanics would live closer to one another, building trust and neighborly friendship, all working towards the ultimate goal of racial harmony.

Just trying to put some kind of positive spin on it...

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Originally Posted by Duff McCartney

Oh the irony of it all.

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Figures coming from you!

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Originally Posted by MannyIsGod

:lmao

Ok, Ok, my bad.

Tahoe is the generic word we use for an SUV based on the popularity. But I will correct myself. According to Joch's stats, all the Dodge Ram driving assholes will be poor as fuck.

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Props to you Manny!

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Originally Posted by Duff McCartney

Oh the irony of it all.

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Judging from discussions we've had in the past, I'd say you still have a pimple on your ass. Get it healed! :nope

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Originally Posted by Spurminator

***Tune of Kum-ba-yah begins to play in the background***
Furthermore, with an influx of people back to the cities, the racial divide would be less extreme. Whites and blacks and Hispanics would live closer to one another, building trust and neighborly friendship, all working towards the ultimate goal of racial harmony.

Just trying to put some kind of positive spin on it...

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Or the white people will kick the minorities out of the city redevelop it and make the smaller people work even harder.

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Originally Posted by Hook Dem

Figures coming from you!

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Yeah right..telling everybody to cut back on their gas usage while you go around driving a tahoe is the ultimate irony.

Maybe you should practice what you preach you freaking hypocrite, but you won't do that.

people are going to drive no matter what.. at least until we run out of oil... manny must hate the poor people. they suffer most from high gas prices.. i don't give a fuck about this gas.. i just pump and forget it.. i fill up every time.. i don't put 5-10 bucks at a time like the poor do...

Haha, nice catch Duff.

Club, if you think SS is running a surplus then you have no idea how the system works. And private pension has and always will outperform SS.

There is no point in arguing the obvious.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Clandestino

people are going to drive no matter what.. at least until we run out of oil... manny must hate the poor people. they suffer most from high gas prices.. i don't give a fuck about this gas.. i just pump and forget it.. i fill up every time.. i don't put 5-10 bucks at a time like the poor do...

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Clandestino reminds me so much of Charlie Brown's teacher.

well, you must.. if you say, i want gas to go sky high... tell that to the poor people.. tell that to the mexican man who doesn't speak any english who cuts my grass...

do you even speak spanish manny...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Duff McCartney

Yeah right..telling everybody to cut back on their gas usage while you go around driving a tahoe is the ultimate irony.

Maybe you should practice what you preach you freaking hypocrite, but you won't do that.

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Did I exclude myself? You really are ignorant aren't you? Read the previous posts and you will realize that Tahoes aren't the problem. I'm talking about everybody cutting back on gas usage. Can you comprehend that? What good is it for you to go to school when you don't learn anything?

I do speak/read/write Spanish. I do not however, speak Charlie Brown's Teacher's Woh Woh language.

I think the question on everybody's mind is whether or not Clandestino is using a legal worker to do his gardening.

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Originally Posted by Johnny_Blaze_47

I think the question on everybody's mind is whether or not Clandestino is using a legal worker to do his gardening.

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when he offered to cut the grass, weed eat, edge, etc for $20 bucks i didn't ask for papers... i'm not totally cold.. i give him an extra 5 every time...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Clandestino

when he offered to cut the grass, weed eat, edge, etc for $20 bucks i didn't ask for papers... i'm not totally cold.. i give him an extra 5 every time...

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So you're willfully breaking the law?

I'm going to report Clandestion to the authorities for breaking the law then I'm going to be unsympathetic when he gets convicted because you shouldn't break the law according to him. Unless it saves you some money on landscaping.

I read this earlier today...seemed relevant to the discussion.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/TECH/08/15/h....ap/index.html

250 miles per gallon? They're doing it
Tinkerers fiddle with hybrids to increase efficiency

Monday, August 15, 2005; Posted: 4:25 p.m. EDT (20:25 GMT)

CORTE MADERA, California (AP) -- Politicians and automakers say a car that can both reduce greenhouse gases and free America from its reliance on foreign oil is years or even decades away.

Ron Gremban says such a car is parked in his garage.

It looks like a typical Toyota Prius hybrid, but in the trunk sits an 80-miles-per-gallon secret -- a stack of 18 brick-sized batteries that boosts the car's high mileage with an extra electrical charge so it can burn even less fuel.

Gremban, an electrical engineer and committed environmentalist, spent several months and $3,000 tinkering with his car.

Like all hybrids, his Prius increases fuel efficiency by harnessing small amounts of electricity generated during braking and coasting. The extra batteries let him store extra power by plugging the car into a wall outlet at his home in this San Francisco suburb -- all for about a quarter.

He's part of a small but growing movement. "Plug-in" hybrids aren't yet cost-efficient, but some of the dozen known experimental models have gotten up to 250 mpg.

They have support not only from environmentalists but also from conservative foreign policy hawks who insist Americans fuel terrorism through their gas guzzling.

And while the technology has existed for three decades, automakers are beginning to take notice, too.

So far, DaimlerChrysler AG is the only company that has committed to building its own plug-in hybrids, quietly pledging to make up to 40 vans for U.S. companies. But Toyota Motor Corp. officials who initially frowned on people altering their cars now say they may be able to learn from them.

"They're like the hot rodders of yesterday who did everything to soup up their cars. It was all about horsepower and bling-bling, lots of chrome and accessories," said Cindy Knight, a Toyota spokeswoman. "Maybe the hot rodders of tomorrow are the people who want to get in there and see what they can do about increasing fuel economy."

Plugged or unplugged?

The extra batteries let Gremban drive for 20 miles with a 50-50 mix of gas and electricity. Even after the car runs out of power from the batteries and switches to the standard hybrid mode, it gets the typical Prius fuel efficiency of around 45 mpg. As long as Gremban doesn't drive too far in a day, he says, he gets 80 mpg.

"The value of plug-in hybrids is they can dramatically reduce gasoline usage for the first few miles every day," Gremban said. "The average for people's usage of a car is somewhere around 30 to 40 miles per day. During that kind of driving, the plug-in hybrid can make a dramatic difference."

Gremban promotes the CalCars Initiative, a volunteer effort encouraging automakers to make plug-in hybrids.

Backers of plug-in hybrids acknowledge that the electricity to boost their cars generally comes from fossil fuels that create greenhouse gases, but they say that process still produces far less pollution than oil. They also note that electricity could be generated cleanly from solar power.

Gremban rigged his car to promote the nonprofit CalCars Initiative, a San Francisco Bay area-based volunteer effort that argues automakers could mass produce plug-in hybrids at a reasonable price.

But Toyota and other car companies say they are worried about the cost, convenience and safety of plug-in hybrids -- and note that consumers haven't embraced all-electric cars because of the inconvenience of recharging them like giant cell phones.

Automakers have spent millions of dollars telling motorists that hybrids don't need to be plugged in, and don't want to confuse the message.

Nonetheless, plug-in hybrids are starting to get the backing of prominent hawks like former CIA director James Woolsey and Frank Gaffney, President Reagan's undersecretary of defense. They have joined Set America Free, a group that wants the government to spend $12 billion over four years on plug-in hybrids, alternative fuels and other measures to reduce foreign oil dependence.

Gaffney, who heads the Washington, D.C.-based Center for Security Policy, said Americans would embrace plug-ins if they understood arguments from him and others who say gasoline contributes to oil-rich Middle Eastern governments that support terrorism.

"The more we are consuming oil that either comes from places that are bent on our destruction or helping those who are ... the more we are enabling those who are trying to kill us," Gaffney said.

Now vs. later

DaimlerChrysler spokesman Nick Cappa said plug-in hybrids are ideal for companies with fleets of vehicles that can be recharged at a central location at night. He declined to name the companies buying the vehicles and said he did not know the vehicles' mileage or cost, or when they would be available.

Others are modifying hybrids, too.

Monrovia-based Energy CS has converted two Priuses to get up to 230 mpg by using powerful lithium ion batteries. It is forming a new company, EDrive Systems, that will convert hybrids to plug-ins for about $12,000 starting next year, company vice president Greg Hanssen said.

University of California, Davis, engineering professor Andy Frank built a plug-in hybrid from the ground up in 1972 and has since built seven others, one of which gets up to 250 mpg. They were converted from non-hybrids, including a Ford Taurus and Chevrolet Suburban.

Frank has spent $150,000 to $250,000 in research costs on each car, but believes automakers could mass-produce them by adding just $6,000 to each vehicle's price tag.

Instead, Frank said, automakers promise hydrogen-powered vehicles hailed by President Bush and Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger, even though hydrogen's backers acknowledge the cars won't be widely available for years and would require a vast infrastructure of new fueling stations.

"They'd rather work on something that won't be in their lifetime, and that's this hydrogen economy stuff," Frank said. "They pick this kind of target to get the public off their back, essentially."

I find this information to be relevant, too.

http://www.directionsmag.com/article.php?article_id=445

There are hundreds of thousands of foreign nationals residing in the US. Most entered the country with a valid work visa, however, many of them are still in the country with expired visas - considered “out of status”. Given that Geographers are eligible to apply for US-based employment under the TN or H1B categories you should need to protect yourself and your company’s interests.

You’ve likely seen the recent headlines… “More than 250 Illegal workers employed by Wal-Mart… one law that Wal-Mart forgot to warp in its favor was the one that prevents U.S. companies from employing or taking advantage of the services of individuals who are not authorized to work in the United States.” So now I ask you, are your employees, consultants, and sub-contractors legal employees? I would wager that in 9 out of 10 cases you likely have no idea.

Until just recently, I had spent more than 4 years working in the US as a foreign national working as a “Geographer”. Of course I always had legal employment status, starting out with a TN visa, and then jumping to H1B status. My employer was also protected and was in no way breaking any employment or immigration laws, however, you may be surprised to learn that this is frequently not the case.

Here are some commonly overlooked facts to keep mind (particularly if your company employs alien workers)

* The employer petitions INS for a work visa, NOT the employee
* A work visa (i.e. TN, H1B) is tied to a specific job with a specific employer. Therefore, a person holding such a visa is not permitted to sub-contract, offer consulting services, or work for anyone other than the petitioner of his/her visa.
* A person’s work visa is technically not expired simply because the employer has returned to his home country. The onus is on the petitioning employer to contact INS and instruct them that the alien’s term of employment has ended.
* When the term of employment ends so too does the visa.

Having spent more than 4 years as a Canadian working in the US, I have spent much time listening in on immigration chat/discussion boards and have been amazed at the constant abuse that exists with both alien employees and American-based employers as well. Given the current political climate and the latest homeland security initiatives that exist in this post 9/11 era, employers need to be educated and should safe-guard themselves from potential immigration issues… you don’t want INS showing up at your office!

Some things to watch out for which could get your company in trouble:
It is quite common for foreign nationals to search for work once they have been laid off. This may seem like no big deal, however, it’s not legal. Here’s an example; Joe is working in the US as a geographer with H1B visa status. Then, he receives layoff notice. Joe starts shopping his resume around the country in search of employment as a geographer; he may even boast to potential employers that he has a valid work visa. The reality, Joe actually has 30 days [roughly] to leave the country and return to his native country or, he may switch status to a visitor’s Visa. A new company may employ him; however, they will need to move very fast in order to petition Joe for a new work visa. Realistically, the only visa that can be secured on such short notice is a TN. Without doing so Joe’s new employer would have hired an illegal foreign worker. Something to keep in mind, Joe may have 30 days to clean up his personal matters and leave the country, however, he’s not “officially” terminated [along with his visa status] until his petitioning employer reports to INS that they have laid him off.

Other things to watch out for:
If you employ a foreign national, is her Visa current or has it lapsed. This is very easy to overlook, particularly with the short-term TN visa, frequently used to employ Canadians in the US. To check, look at the employee’s passport and check the stamp, also, look at the I-94 card [white paper stapled inside the passport] – if they don’t have an I-94 you should be very concerned!

As an employer, have you inspected your foreign employee’s papers? Additionally, do you have copies of all communications with INS? Final approval for a work visa may be sent directly to the foreign national, however, the employer should always request to see all records and notices – make copies!

Do you hire consultants or sub-contractors? Have you ever asked about their employment status? I have heard of people who were “moonlighting” while on TN status in the US and working a second job on the side – this is illegal. The simplest way to do this is request to view a Social security card. Foreign nationals with approval to work will possess such a card.

Do you have access to an immigration attorney? Your lawyer may offer up advice, however, unless they are trained in labor law, and in particular, immigration labor, they likely can’t offer much advice.

As part of employees “perks” an employer may offer to hire a foreign national’s spouse for part-time work. A spouse is not entitled to work unless he/she has a work visa.

What about paying taxes? Foreign nationals must possess a social security number. Without one you cannot possibly deduct taxes and subsequently remit taxes to the government. Of note; a foreign national with a Tax ID (TID) rather than a social security number (SSN) is likely not permitted to work.

Finally, as an employer you should be involved in the entire application process. Many employers simply sign on the dotted line and have no active involvement in the process, instead letting the petitioning employee handle all the paperwork. Be involved and make sure you know what you are signing!

Suggested Resources:
Grasmick - www.grasmick.com – this website offers an immigration handbook for sale which is worth every penny!
NAFTA Chapter 16 - http://www.dfait-maeci.gc.ca/nafta-alena/chap16-en.asp
US Immigration forms - http://www.immigration.gov/graphics/...orms/index.htm

just because he doesn't speak english doesn't mean he is illegal.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Clandestino

just because he doesn't speak english doesn't mean he is illegal.

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Who's making assumptions? You're the one unable to answer our question as to his job status?

You said he was Mexican, so he has to have either a work permit or maybe he's even naturalized - the point is, you can't answer if you're breaking the law as an employer.

Extra expenses will always provide the motivation and become catalysts for improvements in efficency. Always.

We're just looking out for you, Clan.

We wouldn't want you to break the law or anything. Hell, he might be a terrorist using the borders of Mexico to come through the country.

Your gardener could be building a dirty bomb, Clan...then what would happen if he did something. In this "War On Terror...", oh wait, I mean the "Global Struggle Against Extremism," you might be on the front line of all of this, Clan.

We'd just hate for you to end up being charged with something like aiding the terrori...uh, extremists and end up at Gitmo or some place.

I am unable to answer the question as to his status because I have not asked to see his papers. Nor will I....ever..

What's your address, I'll send him over. He does great work and you want to hire him you can check his papers...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Johnny_Blaze_47

We're just looking out for you, Clan.

We wouldn't want you to break the law or anything. Hell, he might be a terrorist using the borders of Mexico to come through the country.

Your gardener could be building a dirty bomb, Clan...then what would happen if he did something. In this "War On Terror...", oh wait, I mean the "Global Struggle Against Extremism," you might be on the front line of all of this, Clan.

We'd just hate for you to end up being charged with something like aiding the terrori...uh, extremists and end up at Gitmo or some place.

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:lmao

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Clandestino

I am unable to answer the question as to his status because I have not asked to see his papers. Nor will I....ever..

What's your address, I'll send him over. He does great work and you want to hire him you can check his papers...

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Unfortunately, I do the yard work at my parent's place and I live in an apartment in San Marcos - the complex has hired a company which has performed the checks necessary for ensuring right-to-work status.

And I'm a citizen.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Johnny_Blaze_47

Unfortunately, I do the yard work at my parent's place and I live in an apartment in San Marcos - the complex has hired a company which has performed the checks necessary for ensuring right-to-work status.

And I'm a citizen.

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wow, good for you... and i'm sure that company is not 100% legit. I bet they pay some workers straight cash...

Isn't failing to confirm his contractor is legal breaking the law? Clandestino who has the sermon on not breaking the law down pat is breaking the law? No, Fucking, Way!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Clandestino

and i'm sure that company is not 100% legit. I bet they pay some workers straight cash...

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But don't all businesses break the law, Clan?

If so, then I'm sure you wouldn't mind the gov't going to your house and doing random searches for illegal workers, right?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MannyIsGod

Isn't failing to confirm his contractor is legal breaking the law? Clandestino who has the sermon on not breaking the law down pat is breaking the law? No, Fucking, Way!

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i'd get a slap on the wrist... no biggie...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Johnny_Blaze_47

But don't all businesses break the law, Clan?

If so, then I'm sure you wouldn't mind the gov't going to your house and doing random searches for illegal workers, right?

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most do in one way or another...

nah, they'd have to have probable cause...

Well, maybe they'll just use the PATRIOT Act to investigate.

Immigration and the prevention of terrori...uh, extremists crossing the border is of utmost importance to our gov't.

I go on vacation for 4 days and this forum drops about 40 IQ points...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by scott

I go on vacation for 4 days and this forum drops about 40 IQ points...

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Well 20 points of that drop is due to two posters - Clandestino and Hook Dem

:lol

I was thinking more along the lines of clubalien, boutons, and cecil collins. I am skeptical that Clandestino got an stupider while I was gone - that would be a mighty task.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by scott

I was thinking more along the lines of clubalien, boutons, and cecil collins. I am skeptical that Clandestino got an stupider while I was gone - that would be a mighty task.

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Ouch!

It's all good. Let these new guys find their legs, they'll be fine.

:hat

Just glad to make the list.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Spurminator

It certainly would change the lifestyles of a lot of people. Perhaps there would be a reverse in the current flock to the suburbs. More people would live in the city, closer to work. They would probably walk/bike more, and maybe as a whole the nation would be in better shape.

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Cities would become more vertical... and more expensive.

Suburbs that are employment centers would become cities of their own, for example, Tyson's Corner, VA.

Quote:

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Furthermore, with an influx of people back to the cities, the racial divide would be less extreme. Whites and blacks and Hispanics would live closer to one another, building trust and neighborly friendship, all working towards the ultimate goal of racial harmony.

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Or, with the influx of more affluent people back into the central cities, property values would skyrocket, and rents would follow suit.

Luckily, there would be a plentiful supply of comfortable tract homes out in the suburbs with low property values for them to move into.

Oh, by the way, for it to make sense for a suburbanite to give up his $200,000 house for a $300,000 condo in the city, oil needs to get up around $400 a barrel or so. At that price, it's probably economical to make gasoline out of McDonald's wrappers and old cell phones.

So I guess this whole hypothetical is just that.

Had to be a downer...

:lol

I would also like to point out that under law it is descrimination to turn someone down because you think their papers are illegal or somethng. forgot what it was but the employers say it is a catch 22 but they just use it or something else as an excuse.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nbadan

Well 20 points of that drop is due to two posters - Clandestino and Hook Dem

:lol

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It's good to know I bother you that much! Spread the love. :lol

I would expect a large work from home movement before the migration back the the city.

However, I would like to know where ES pulled the 400 dollar a barrel figure from as the turning point.

gas prices up=world economy, greedy oil companies, higher demand, low production

gas prices down=my leader, leading!!!!

i love how everyone says bush is the biggest dumbass on earth, but yet they think he is responsible for everything in the world!

you guys make him a God!