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I know we are still riding the 2014 Championship train, but I was reading in another thread where someone believes Beltran over Daye next year to fill the role of the stretch 4 was the better option. Wanted to get a general consensus on who everybody else feels has the most potential to fill that role. Personally I like Daye because he has more potential on defensive end and he has more NBA experience and more time in the Spurs' system, but that is just my opinion, what's yours?
Who is beltran tbh?
Beltran?
Davis BERTANS has much more professional experience
Don't know about Bertans but Daye can shoot, pass and can get deflection/block
Daye is a 3 and can play spot 2, at 200 lbs he is not a 4
Daye is a natural 3 with the ability to play a stretch 4. He is not a 2.He is 6'11"Quote:
Originally Posted by thekingrobert
To be fair, 216-218 pounds. I am really liking his passing ability and ball fakes as well. He is a four at his weight sort of, in the stretch-four role. Pop had him coming in for Bonner at the end of quarters to get off threes. He was shooting lights out until he pulled a muscle in his back with about three games left in the season. I don't know if his shooting suffered due to coming off that injury (and recovering from strep throat), or he just regressed to the mean, but his shot is sweet. His pump fake and move to the basket from the 3-point line is quick due to his length. And, that fake has to be respected by the defender because he'll nail it. He seems very calm with the ball. Remember, he has only played just over 100 minutes for The Spurs. I am hopeful for what he can add after an off-season, training camp, and time-coaching from a very good coaching staff. I could see him being a good bench player coming off and shooting 3's, or faking and driving to the rim to dish to the big man as defenses collapse to him. Also, he seems nimble with the outlet passes, etc on fast breaks. Defensively, he gets deflections, steals, and blocks regularly. Physically, he may suffer a little in the rebounding department, but even there, he has been better than initially advertised. He may not make the team, but has been a pleasant surprise.Quote:
Originally Posted by thekingrobert
I don't watch Bertans. But, some people seem to think he'll be great for us. Bertans and Daye both had knee issues. Bertans more recently, and more severe. Regarding the rest of Bertans' game, I don't know. Translating Euroball to the NBA is not an exact science. I think Nando was pretty good over seas. Here, not so much.
Bertans' return after knee surgery:
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=jqVDMc1RQMQ
I hope we can keep Daye and replace Ayres, instead. Bertans is no NBA 4, either. 6'10", 210lbs. He's got good handles for his size, but he's built a lot like Daye. Maybe he will fill out, but he doesn't look the part now. Hopefully Baynes can make Ayres irrelevant, and open us up a roster spot.
Daye only costs us, I think, 750K next season. If he improves, and Bellinelli doesn't, Marco's contract expires after next season, when Daye comes up for renewal.
In essense, I don't know. Who knows? We'll see.
Give me nando back... tbh
Daye is a natural 3 with the ability to play a stretch 4. He is not a 2.He is 6'11"Quote:
Originally Posted by thekingrobert
I was interested, but you can have him. He had almost two full years here, training camps, etc. Tossing the ball into the stands, bricking shots. Decent ball handler, but not quick, not a great shooter, not a good defender, not super athletic, not etc. Just a nice ball handler, and when that's your only skill...better not throw it into the stands. Corey is as good or better shooter inside 3, and improving each year outside 3. In all Nando's tournaments in Europe and The Olympics, he averages 1.54 assists per game. He was flashy, but just not consistently good. Maybe he deserved another year, but we have lots of guards. Time to give someone else a chance to shine, or get shipped out, as well. Even Nando's strengths were not STRONG.Quote:
Originally Posted by td4mvp2k
Nando is kind of like Beno, but worst than Beno.
At least Beno can shoot 3.
I think it is as acceptable to say he can play the 2 as it is to say that he can play the 4. He can play both of those positions, sparingly, conditionally, depending upon who he is playing next to on our team, and who he is playing across from on their team. "Stretch-four" is already conditional. A short, slow, old Derek Fisher playing the two for OKC? He could guard the two spot, there. Stifling Derek* with his length out on the 3 point line, and able to recover if Derek were to drive, with same length. As many different line-ups as Pop ran, I could easily see him playing the two a few times.Quote:
Originally Posted by 4lifecowboy
Splitter, Boris, Kawhi, Daye, and Parker, Ginobili, Mills, or Joseph at point. I would like to see that a few times in the regular season, depending.
*Retired, just an example.
Yeah :). I was going to make that comparison, too, but I didn't think it was fair to Beno. In retrospect, Beno is a percentage point worse from three than Nando, albeit with a much larger sample size. I still remember Beno more fondly than Nando, though. Neither were great.Quote:
Originally Posted by spursparker9
I don't know if Beltran is the answer. We're gonna rely on an unproven baseball player to come in and contribute quickly? Might as well trade back for Boozer.
I like Daye over Bertans. He's much longer, has better passing ability, and has a overall more versatile game. Ideally, Daye would become kind of like Boris Diaw, someone who can drive, pass, shoot 3's, and create mismatches with opposing 4's.
Bertans is just another shooter. And just another foreign project that will have to adapt to the rigors of the NBA. Daye is the better option for us.
Bertans was 6-9 when he measured in at the combine three years ago. He may well have grown since then. There's little difference between him a Daye from a physical standpoint. I'd say Davis is more of a pure three whereas Austin is a combo-forward (in a bad way). Neither one is really much of a defender, but they both have some decent tools to get better on that end. Daye demonstrated some nice passing skills, but I don't think he has much of a perimeter game.
Bertans is significantly younger and cheaper, which makes him the superior long-term prospect, in my opinion. I want Daye to get his shot in camp, though. It's going to be tricky with his contract, though.
With the big 3 looking to stay maybe two more years I'd give someone with experience with the team the upper hand. I'm interested to know if you think Bonner gave himself a chance to come back on a minimum contract? It didn't appear to me that he has been keeping himself involved with the team. If the Spurs let him slide out the door maybe there will be room for Daye and Bertans?Quote:
Originally Posted by Chinook
I think Bertans has the edge in experience. He's been a regular professional rotation player for longer, and Pop seems to really value international experience. But signing Bertans isn't really about 2014. As long as Beli is on the team, there really isn't a rotation spot open. The best Daye can hope for is Bonner's spot. But he's still competing with Ayres and Baynes for time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Strategic
As far as Matt goes, I think he has a spot in San Antonio as long as he wants one. He's incredibly popular with the organization and fans. He doesn't mind being the 12th man. I don't really think he's going anywhere.
I pulled the 6'10" from the wikipedia page. Not exactly a reliable source. Who knows how tall he really is, but at 6'9" when he is 18-19ish, he still could have put up another inch. I grew 4-5 inches after high school, for example. Terminates at 21 for males, as a rule of thumb.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chinook
"Bertans is an interesting case. He was developing into one of Europe’s best young prospects before he tore his ACL at the end of last year. The guy can shoot. Think a 6’10″ Kyle Korver. Do not think the next Dirk, you’re just setting yourself up for a letdown. Bertans continues to recover from injury and should be back on the court early in 2014.
What’s interesting about him is he’s spent parts of the last two summers in San Antonio working out with the Spurs staff. This past summer was an extended stay for rehab. That kind of attention is interesting. He was in Las Vegas watching the Spurs Summer League team with the front office and coaching staff. At the very least, that shows the Spurs want Bertans in their program, perhaps sooner than later. His contract is also up after the 2015 season, so it’ll be interesting to see how far this injury has set his progress back."
I wouldn't propose anything for Daye other than this upcoming year. Bertans will be unavailable until mid-2015, unless The Spurs buy him out of his contract, however much that is. They didn't do it for Splitter, or Scola. It doesn't appear to be their MO. So, the point of one vs. the other is moot, for my interests. Bertans is "unavailable." Regarding veteran minimums Daye would qualify for, etc. Bertans would be cheaper in the long run, and younger, but, again, I would like to just see him get a full season in on the cheap. If he impresses, which many think is unlikely, then we'll cross that bridge when we come to it - contract-wise. If he doesn't improve/impress, it's a non-issue. Capwise, you believe the 750K he would be due would be excessive? Could you elaborate. I don't understand the cap implication that 750K would cause.
Bertans and Livio blowing out their knees so young sort of soured me on both of their futures, unfortunately. Players recover much better than in the past, but still sends up red flags. Livio is also under contract until the end of his 2015-2016 season. The Spurs haven't bought out others, as mentioned earlier, so as far as your statement:
"Real-talk: He'll probably get a chance to compete with Jean-Charles/Bertans for the backup SF job next year."
I don't see that happening. Maybe your better understanding of the contracts makes Bertans and Livio more likely to be bought out than Splitter, Scola, etc? Can you explain?
I agree with you about Matt, which makes it hard for Daye. Belli also signed a two year deal, so he's not going anywhere, next year, probably. That is why I always mention Ayres and Daye simultaneously, despite different positions, skills, and body-types, Daye really is competing for Ayres position, or the 10-Daye contract rotating spot that we currently have filled with Damion James. I don't see him displacing Belli (unless he plays like shit in the finals, like he did vs. The Thunder, but even then - they would have to trade him as he's under guaranteed contract next year, I think - probably won't happen given The Spurs track record.)Quote:
Originally Posted by Chinook
As far as I know, Bertans' contract allows him to get a buyout cheaply. You forget that the Spurs bought out Baynes' contract last year to bring him over. Scola didn't come over because the Spurs didn't have enough money to make it worthwhile. Houston did, so that's why he came over for them. Splitter was in a similar situation, in that he was making more money in Spain than the Spurs could offer until 2010, when his rookie-scale restriction expired. Jean-Charles can be bought out easily, since he plays for the team Parker co-owns. Everyone just agreed that he'd stay a few years for developmental purposes (misguidedly, I feel).Quote:
Originally Posted by littlecoyotecoin
Bertans clearly wants to come over to the Spurs, and the team seems to have invested quite a bit in him. I think he'd've been in San Antonio this season had he not gotten injured. Now that he's recovered, I don't see much stopping him. I don't necessarily think he'd come over and grab a rotation spot. I think he'd play in Austin for a few months to adjust. Daye could likely grab a roster spot in such a scenario. However, if Davis were to come over this year, I do think it would be on something closer to a Blair-like deal ($4M/4 or something like that with two guaranteed years) rather than a typical two-year min deal. So it would be another investment the team would be making in him that would make him a favorite to earn a roster spot over Daye. However, you can take heart in the fact that if Austin is still on the team at the end of this month, he'll likely be on it for all of next season.
June 30th is the "shit or get off the pot" deadline, right? And, no, I didn't know they bought out Baynes. Regarding Splitter and Scola, it makes sense that these things are contract-specific. Would make summer league fun to watch if Daye, Livio, and Bertans are all there playing. But, that's a whole lot of fucked up knees in one locale, too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chinook
slow playing 3, weak for playing 4. I belive his problem is the defensive side not offensive side. Still looks encouraging imo
Do we still belive in livio? Didn't he fuck his knee literally the day after we drafted him in the euro? That has be a signQuote:
Originally Posted by littlecoyotecoin
unfortunately austin daye is so slow
Agreed, almost as slow as Durant.Quote:
Originally Posted by r0drig0lac
Livio has already said that he is playing in France next year which is good since it takes some time to recover from his knee injury. Bertrans has recovered and managed to play a few games this season with his team and as stated above his buyout is small. As far as Daye or Bertrans my bet is on Bertrans as the Spurs have spent a lot of time with him and he does have the highest upside of our foreign draft picks.
For me Daye is just to slow he as no lateral quickness to his game and another big difference "HEART" Bertrans has the heart of a lion just watch him play he gives you everything on offense and defense.
It's nice to have these guys stashed in Europe when several teams have no draft picks. Even if they amount to absolutely nothing.
Spurs got the 30th, 57th and 60th pick in the upcoming draft. Probably getting some international players again
Daye has a unique body, great potential, and Pop seems to like him so if he has a "spurs" work ethic I expect to see him here next year. That said, he can't play the 4. Hell Durant can't handle the 4 and Daye is 40lbs lighter than KD.
What about Deshaun Thomas?
Daye and Bertans should both get a shot next year. Bertans is clearly the long term prospect, but Daye is too interesting not to get a better look. He played well for the pistons at time before his trade to the Grizz. I'd want him to put on some weight this summer.
Worst case he's moved at the deadline again in a small trade for a late 2nd.
Where did you get the idea that Pop likes him?Quote:
Originally Posted by SnakeBoy
Is it because he actually got some burn towards the end of the season?
He had one really big game. Pop also inserted him several times in end of quarter situations. He did not fair particularly well though, but I like Pop's idea that Daye can be used for special situations. Kind of like a special team guy. You know... the kind of situation that requires a 3 point shot. Unfortunately, Daye wasn't suited up during that game against the blazers when we needed a good 3 point attempt. Mills was covered and his shot was short.
I suspect he's gone. They've obviously phased him out of the rotation in the past year and a half and they've clearly been looking for a younger secondary stretch four since then (first Thomas, now Daye). They don't need both him and Daye and even though the latter has no true defensive position, he's good enough to serve as a secondary stretch four/sixth big.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chinook
As for Bertans, since this season was essentially a lost one, I suspect they leave him in Europe for another season. He's not really necessary with Daye on the roster anyway. What they need in a depth SF is a wing defender with a build similar to James, who's at least somewhat of a threat from three.
:lol minus the Heat every team could use someone similar to James.Quote:
Originally Posted by TD 21
I imagine he means Damion.Quote:
Originally Posted by SnakeBoy
just saw daye in a YouTube of best spurs teamwork plays this season, and he had a gorgeous behind the back dish that was pretty natural and smooth.
excited to see if spurs hang on to this asset and develop him.
Oh god no. That scrub cost the Raptors a championship, tbhQuote:
Originally Posted by td4mvp2k
In theory Daye would be a better fit for this series than someone like Ayers/Baynes. I expect Miami will play a lot of Lewis at the stretch 4, even though his shot has been irregular. Daye has the size and length to cover him, as well as to disrupt passing lanes. Lewis isn't that fast anymore. Obvious I doubt it happens in practice, but in theory Daye is a better fit than the current sixth big off the bench for this series.