http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WsbfC3cWznQ
@ 3:19 mark
Big Dave prime will win Timmy prime ?
Printable View
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WsbfC3cWznQ
@ 3:19 mark
Big Dave prime will win Timmy prime ?
Drob would whoop Tim Duncan one-on-one. But that's not Duncan's game, its his intangibles. Its his team player and being a team leader is what make him so great. Tim and Drob comparison actually shows that just athleticism isn't going to win you championship. Mental toughness and resolve do. I love Drob, but in this aspect, he is not on Duncan's playing field.
Different players. Admiral was face up, TD low post guru.
"This is the best fan-base because their so respectful, nobody hates LeBron or the Heat"
:lol I get Skip was just kissing ass there, but holy shit could he be less wrong. Every Spurs fan I've met says shit like "Fuck LeBron! Fuck Wade! FUCK MIAMI! BUNCH OF FLOPPERS!!!" as if they don't realize the Spurs have two main floppers, one infamous for it (Manu) and one who looks hilarious anytime he does it (Tiago).
Lol DRob shouldn't be talking about going 1-on-1 with anyone after that catastrophe in 1995.
There was an interview back in 98 by Doc Rivers with both Tim and David on the couch and that's not exactly how it was playing out.
Well said tbhQuote:
Originally Posted by Cowboys_Wear_Spurs
Well Timmay has a better dribbling so I don't know if Dave would won that matchup
If Timmy got Drob down on the block it would be over. There's a reason they handed the offense over to Duncan when he arrived. But yes, Drob was faster and more athletic.
http://youtu.be/xPY8QjdmQEg
Timmy was kicking Dave's ass.
Drob conceded this as well. But he was talking about taken from the top of the key, like most one-on-one games are played. Drob was so quick and such great leaping ability, he just needed two dribbles and he was going by you for a dunk or layup.Quote:
Originally Posted by BillMc
DRob didn't go 1 on 1 in 1995.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpursFan313
Robinson's biggest weakness imo was he was so totally left handed.
Yet he still got by people, just like Avery.
:cry Legend :cry
In a game of 1 on 1, I'd put my money on the Admiral.
Skip was clearly playing the crowd on that one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Prime Time
LolQuote:
Originally Posted by SpursFan313
1 on 1 is harder against 3 defenders.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpursFan313
Yeah, I heard that too. My money is on Tim. David was a phenomenal athlete and could jump out of the arena but Tim was so much better fundamentally. David was faster, quicker, could jump higher and was a better defender but you gotta score points. No one can throw you an alley-oop when you are playing one on one.
LOL I doubt it.. If they play 10 times I take Tim 7-3..
Quote:
Originally Posted by will_spurs
I love it when users try to correct people who weren't really wrong in the first place.Quote:
Originally Posted by Prime Time
there is still a huge San Antonio Heat following.Quote:
Originally Posted by Prime Time
I wouldn't discredit Timmy's defense in his prime. I could see him getting a few blocks on Robinson if he tried to drive past him. Also, Timmy knows how to use his body so well, he would just find a way with the ball to put him in a position where he'll score. I think Timmy would win that matchup.
Robinson easily. People really forget how great a player he really was. He is under appreciated because he played in the Big Man era, there were at least two hall of fame centers that played when he did and I'm not even counting Shaq , that's not even factoring in Jordan. Robinson in his prime was like Blake Griffin crossed with Serge Ibaka in a 7'1" frame. Off the charts athletically, no way Timmy could keep up with him one on one.
Except I wasn't trying to correct you, of course. Just agreeing by saying it in a different way.Quote:
Originally Posted by Prime Time
My bad then :tuQuote:
Originally Posted by will_spurs
A lot of people don't know David in his prime. There's nothing close to him in the NBA today, not even remotely. He'd dominate the league today.
I disagree. David was a lefty and rarely used his right hand to shoot. Tim is ambidextrous and crushes defenders because he's able to beat them from different spots and angles on the floor. The better comparison between players would be Olujawon and Duncan. That would be a hell of a one on one match up. Hakeem's quickness AND moves would give Tim fits.Quote:
Originally Posted by 4lifecowboy
of course David won a few vs Timmy, I bet they played over 50 games of 1 on 1
So David won about 3-47 vs Duncan lol
A one on one game suits Robinson's style more. He could pick up a little steam and blow by Timmy. I'd take him.
Timmy in his prime? Not many players in the NBA blew by timmy in his prime. I take Team DuncanQuote:
Originally Posted by jimbo
I'd take Prime TD over Prime DRob. I always think of David as a freak athlete who played basketball, but Tim is just a smarter, better basketball player. I just think TD's skill level would trump David's athleticism.
I think that is the case. Most are probably judging Robinson from his twilight years. I personally would go as far to say Robinson was probably the most talented player to ever wear a spurs jersey.Quote:
Originally Posted by DMC
For those that are picking Duncan could you state your age please. I was fortunate enough to see both players drafted and play their entire careers. To make it clear for the record Duncan is my favorite player to ever wear a Spurs jersey. But Robinson was a beast and if he had near the supporting cast that Duncan had (on the court, coaching, and front office) we would be talking about the Spurs in terms of Robinson's Championship era vs the Duncan Championship era.
Da Admiral averaged 23.8 PPG, 11.3 Rebounds, 2.2 blocks, and 1.5 steals a game in that series vs. Olajuwon and the Rockets. Those numbers are nothing to be ashamed of despite what the highlight reels showed then.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpursFan313
Drob wasn't like many players in NBA history. IMO he's either the first or second most athletic center ever. Depending on what you think of Wilt. He's got the raw numbers to back up his athleticism. Robinson looks quicker, but has no track numbers. (but is clearly much weaker strength wise)Quote:
Originally Posted by TimmyDuncan21
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_s2hIf-b6ho
That speed man
:lmao Admiral was on top, Timmy on the bottomQuote:
Originally Posted by Tuddy
Tim is the tougher competitor as well.. D-Rob is beloved by Spurs nation but winning was not everything to him like it is to Tim.. Tim demanded that he win not just one but multiple rings..Quote:
Originally Posted by Old School 44
Tim Duncan is better as a basketball player than Robinson, but Robinson was a freak athletically. If we could have put Timmy's skill in Robinson's body... :wow
:lol that didn't come out right.Quote:
Originally Posted by SupremeGuy
you didnt come out right.......:toastQuote:
Originally Posted by IrisHockey
Another faggot comment from another faggot.Quote:
Originally Posted by IrisHockey
Well technically, David was already a few years past his prime at that point. Although, Tim was probably a few years before his prime as well. I'd give Robinson some handicap points though since his decline was probably more dramatic than Tim's ascension.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sec24Row7
In theory DRob, but in a real matchup that actually meant something, I'd put money on Duncan. Nothing against the Admiral, who was a MVP and a better player than some realize, but prime Duncan like 2002-3 woul have more consistent and go-to moves. In the other hand, prime Robinson might have been fast enough to just blow by him. Who knows?
I don't understand why everyone tries to emphasize this so much. There isn't a "classy" fan base in the league. Most fan bases are comprised of biased, classless, below average IQ morons from Spurs to OKC to Miami to Boston to L.A. and beyond. Every fucking team. It's like 95% casual fans who don't really know much about basketball, 4.9% armchair GMs/coaches who watch ballbreakdown and think they understand the game, and 0.1% who actually have first hand experience (usually coaching) who have a pretty good grasp on the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Prime Time
David is probably a top 5 centre all time.. But Tim is the best PF to ever play the game..
I've always thought 1v1 match ups were pretty stupid when comparing nba players , doesn't prove who is the better player, it is a team game after all.
Like every time I see a Spurs fan use the term "4 down" and act like it adds anything substantive to the discussion I know they're part of the 4.9% or maybe even the 95% :lmao
And for the record I'm part of the 4.9%/95% myself.
rofl betting against your team at every opportunity and then to trying to play it off like it's a shtickQuote:
Originally Posted by DMC
I've never bet a dime against the Spurs.Quote:
Originally Posted by IrisHockey
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimbo
:wow 2.3 steals and 5 blocks ??
OMG...
:lmao one-on-one. David Robinson put up nearly 25 and 12 against four Rockets swarming him on every possession.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpursFan313
Lmao. . .people are really shitting on DRob here? DRob was basically the LeBron of the early 90's. Massive stat sheet stuffing talent but didn't win a title until he got help.
Prime DRob was nothing less than a monster. Yes, Hakeem had a miracle run against him. He didn't exactly dominate him outside of that series though. DRob wins in head to head numbers technically. And Hakeem is a top 15 GOAT player who would be dominating the MVP voting if he still played today. DRob would be too imo. Let's not underrate how amazing those guys were.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kidd K
Well said.
Dave was an amazing talent. Nobody in the NBA today is even close to him. Physically, maybe James, with the help of steroids. But James lacks the intelligence, class, and character of a Robinson.
Prime Dave destroys Prime Tim all day long. The downside is longevity. Hard to be Prime Dave for as long as you can be Prime Tim.
Dave made all of this happen. He is the personification of class. He is the Spurs. He is the cornerstone. No Dave. No titles.
Skill > Athleticism
TD > DRob
Also, let's not underrate Tim's athleticism in his younger days...he was the closest thing to a perfect basketball player from 99-03.
If we want to oversimplify things, we could say Dave was the better 1-on-1 player while Tim was the better team player...but I'm not even sure if I buy that. If Dave really could "blow by" Tim on every possession, Tim would adjust to that and leave more distance. Then he could stand back and block all of Dave's predictable shots, or force him to shoot jumpers. On offense, Tim would tactically pick Dave apart with his plethora of moves. Dave wouldn't have such an easy time defending someone with both the size and technical finesse of Duncan.
Anyway, as someone else pointed out, the 1-on-1 scenario is irrelevant because NBA basketball is a team game. So even if Dave could beat him 1-on-1, it doesn't really matter. You aren't winning shit with 1-on-1 :lol.
^^^^ Shut up moron. In their prime..... Dave is better than Tim. Period.
Not not not not even close. Ever. On any planet.
In the open court, David would beat Tim. But Tim would torch David on the block.
Robinson did more than win in head to head numbers. It's not really close at all. Until Rudy T (probably by accident) invented the inside-out offense, in which you have a low post player surrounded by three point shooters, which nobody knew how to defend, the Rockets didn't have any real success, even with one of the great players of all time. Prior to this era, when somebody came into a game hitting three pointers at a decent clip, the conventional wisdom said to let them keep shooting, because the percentages dictated that they couldn't sustain it. Suddenly the Rockets were sustaining it. The Rockets just happened to have several of the best three point shooters in history on their team at the same time and it completely changed the way teams play today. The Spurs owe all of their success to that model.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kidd K
Dave didn't start off his career really caring about winning, but that changed a couple of years before Timmy arrived. I'm sure Timmy would give a lot of credit to Dave for teaching him how to win. Timmy didn't exactly take over and dominate the NCAA tournament as a college player. It's entirely possible that if Mario Elie never becomes a Spur, this franchise goes in a vastly different direction.
One last thing: Let's not pretend that David EVER had a group of teammates around him as good as the ones Duncan had around him virtually his entire career. The two best pre-Timmy teams of Robinson's career were the '96 team, who was on track to go deep into the playoffs until Doc Rivers got injured, and the 1990 team, on which David and Elliott were both rookies.
Lol come on man.Quote:
Originally Posted by Skull-1
No titles is right.. Until Tim came along and handled all that..Quote:
Originally Posted by Skull-1
Fixed.Quote:
Originally Posted by dbreiden83080
:lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Obstructed_View
Legends of the hardwood right there..
People here do realize that 4 down is a one on one iso play, right?
Timmy was so amazing 1 on 1 that we got away with that play as our bread and butter for 4 titles. David was an incredibly amazing player, but he was no Timmy.
Idk, D-Rob is the reason I became a Spurs fan and I despised Timmy because him and Tony Rutland used to always seem to find a way to beat the Terps. That being said though when Timmy first entered the league he seemed to have a more consistent jump shot than D-Rob. But how the questioned was asked D-Rob seemed like they had played a few times and he handled Timmy.
David was far and away the most athletic, talented Spurs player.
But he didn't have the same desire to win as Duncan. The way he carried a team with no secondary star in 2013 was beyond what David could do in his prime. The way Duncan willed himself from 2011 first round exit, humiliated by Randalph/Gasol, to two NBA finals appearances required a divorce plus more commitment than David ever could put in. Duncan is much closer to Kobe/Jordan in the desire to win, David always struck me as "basketball is just a game" and family first.
1v1 is hard to say, 2003 Duncan beat Shaq (albeit at tail end of his prime) 1v1. But prime David had no problem with young Shaq either. I would call it a wash.
I think it depends on the dimensions of the court. If, for example, it was DRob's driveway and the roses are out of bounds it favors Robinson, if its the daisies or garden gnomes it favors Duncan.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtdvzMw72Wg
The admiral, by comparison, was part of some pretty crappy teams. When Sean Elliott is the second best player on the team, you don't have a championship caliber team. Give the Admiral Tony Parker and Mau Ginobili and I guarantee you the circumstances change. David Robinson, not a team leader or team player? Don't make things up just to try to prove a point. Tim Duncan owes a lot of his early career success to the Admiral, who took him under his wing. The Admiral had many of the same characteristics you're giving Duncan. The only difference being Robinson had to carry more of the work load for his team to succeed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowboys_Wear_Spurs
2013 Parker was 6th in MVP voting...Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmantb
would have been top 3 if not for injuryQuote:
Originally Posted by Aztecfan03
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbreiden83080
No Dave. No Tim.
No Dave. No titles.
Dave is the cornerstone of it all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by N0 LyF3 ScRuB
Dave was a beast. Tim would have wilted after getting mashed in the face with a Dave block.
Do you have a link?Quote:
Originally Posted by Sec24Row7
Tim Duncan had DRob to mentor him though and explain about the pains of loss. Who did DRob have? Yeah exactly, he had to carry the team with MVP numbers from day 1 until he got hurt and the team sucked so bad they got the top pick and with it, Tim Duncan.Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmantb
DRob deserves a lot more credit than he's getting here. I am starting to wonder when some of you guys started watching the Spurs with all the dumps you guys are taking on him.
Spurfan should never trash Duncan, Robinson, or Gervin.
Sorry I meant 2003. Change Duncan of that year to MVP David 1995. Do you really think we would have won?
That was Duncan at his peak. His love for David pushed him over the limit and gave David the best possible ending of a hall of fame career. I just can't see David doing the same thing against three peat Lakers.
Someone already posted the Doc Rivers interview here, so I won't repost, but David has repeatedly recounted stories about how he couldn't guard Timmy during that 1997 training camp.
Again, Robinson is a top 20 all time player, and one of the most athletic players in the history of the game who also possessed a great faceup game. HOWEVER, Timmy was no slouch athletically, was more coordinated than David, more skilled, had just as good of a faceup game (if not better), and a much better post game.
These comments are no knock on David, a guy who helped create the foundation for the Spurs as a model franchise, but Timmy was just that good in his prime. Again, we won championships with a high post iso as our go-to play.
And for all of those knocking David's teammates and going on and on about how much help Timmy had. Please look at our rosters from 2002-2004.
Starting 5 2002:
Parker (rookie)
Steve Smith (about to retire)
Bruce Bowen
Timmy
DRob (injured for a good portion of the playoffs and was essentially useless against the Lakers in the semifinals)
2003:
Parker (still inconsistent, nowhere near where he would be later)
Jackson (our 2nd best player, cut by the Nets the year before)
Bowen
Timmy
DRob (still a defensive anchor, but a shell of his former self due to injuries/father time)
2004:
Parker (started to find himself in this season, but still couldn't shoot to save his life)
Ginobili (started to find himself as well, but still erratic and wouldn't erupt until a year later)
Bowen
Timmy
Nesterovich (average, run-of-the-mill center...and that's being nice)
In those 3 seasons the Spurs were ranked no lower than 3rd in the West, won one championship, and came damn close in 04. That 2002 team also went toe to toe with the 3-peat Lakers, but couldn't hold a lead in the 4th quarter to save their lives.
Exactly. Dave was unbelievably good. But that was a lifetime ago and only a few of us here ever witnessed it. That's obvious.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kidd K
Quote:
Originally Posted by TDfan2007
Yer on crack. Dave was a top 20 player yet he sucks compared to Tim? Lol
Also, look at that roster. Bowen. Bowen. Bowen. 'Nuff said.
This is great.
I mean i dont care about 1on1. Timmy isnt 1on1 type guy.
But it just confirms why hes the greatest PF of all time and not a C. His entire offensive reportoire and spacing is that of a PF.
I don't think anyone is trashing Dave. Him and Tim just have completely different playing styles. Dave had to rely on athleticism, whereas Tim has better footwork and skill.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kidd K
:lol Wow...that was the shittiest retort I've ever seen in a serious discussion. You literally just said "no", called me names, and re-stated your assertion without any supporting logic or evidence. I guess you have none.Quote:
Originally Posted by Skull-1
Anyway, I wasn't trying to shit on Dave by any means. I consider him a top 20 player all time. But I hold TD in such high esteem that I cannot give Dave this one. Why are you so disrespectful to the GOAT PF/C?
Quote:
Originally Posted by IrisHockey
The DoctorQuote:
Originally Posted by DMC
I think in that interview they were talking about Tim running with the younger guys and David with the older ones and it was clear Tim was leading the young guns to a whooping over the old guys..Quote:
Originally Posted by Sec24Row7
Nice touch to add your own commentary in parenthesis in an attempt to strengthen your argument. Now show David's teammates.Quote:
Originally Posted by TDfan2007
I actually see some of DRob in Blake, tbh.... two big men with freakish athleticism for their positions, both especially renowned for their passing skills, and both share the distinction of being unanimous rookies of the year too....Quote:
Originally Posted by Skull-1
:lol you're kind of overreacting. Nobody said that David sucks compared to Timmy. David is top 20, but Timmy is one of the 10 best ever. Again, no disrespect to the admiral, but Timmy was better.Quote:
Originally Posted by Skull-1
Sean was better than any player that I listed...but I'm not arguing that David had better teammates, I'm just stating that Timmy wasn't always surrounded by All Stars like his deflectors like to point out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoops Czar
Tims drive is like few others out there! That is the flat out truth! I agree there.Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmantb
They are both one of a kind once in a lifetime players. Dave was just such a phenom, and his athletic talent does remind me of Blake, but Blake will never have the defensive dominance of Dave. I love TD but I'd pick David over Tim one on one. If I'm choosing a franchise player, obviously pick Timmy.
To me it's one of those things where Timmy would be taking notes with every loss and coming up with an ever changing gameplan. Now D-Rob supposedly has genius level intellect but he doesn't have the skill set Tim does to mix and match things up. Tim was/is an extremely cerebral player. If Dave was blowing bye him he is going to give him that jump shot, if Dave is killing him in the post (Unlikely) he will figure out a way to stop his go to move. He would think it all out until eventually Tim was dominating the matchup IMO..