Quote:
Originally Posted by jimbo
:wow 2.3 steals and 5 blocks ??
OMG...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimbo
:wow 2.3 steals and 5 blocks ??
OMG...
:lmao one-on-one. David Robinson put up nearly 25 and 12 against four Rockets swarming him on every possession.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpursFan313
Lmao. . .people are really shitting on DRob here? DRob was basically the LeBron of the early 90's. Massive stat sheet stuffing talent but didn't win a title until he got help.
Prime DRob was nothing less than a monster. Yes, Hakeem had a miracle run against him. He didn't exactly dominate him outside of that series though. DRob wins in head to head numbers technically. And Hakeem is a top 15 GOAT player who would be dominating the MVP voting if he still played today. DRob would be too imo. Let's not underrate how amazing those guys were.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kidd K
Well said.
Dave was an amazing talent. Nobody in the NBA today is even close to him. Physically, maybe James, with the help of steroids. But James lacks the intelligence, class, and character of a Robinson.
Prime Dave destroys Prime Tim all day long. The downside is longevity. Hard to be Prime Dave for as long as you can be Prime Tim.
Dave made all of this happen. He is the personification of class. He is the Spurs. He is the cornerstone. No Dave. No titles.
Skill > Athleticism
TD > DRob
Also, let's not underrate Tim's athleticism in his younger days...he was the closest thing to a perfect basketball player from 99-03.
If we want to oversimplify things, we could say Dave was the better 1-on-1 player while Tim was the better team player...but I'm not even sure if I buy that. If Dave really could "blow by" Tim on every possession, Tim would adjust to that and leave more distance. Then he could stand back and block all of Dave's predictable shots, or force him to shoot jumpers. On offense, Tim would tactically pick Dave apart with his plethora of moves. Dave wouldn't have such an easy time defending someone with both the size and technical finesse of Duncan.
Anyway, as someone else pointed out, the 1-on-1 scenario is irrelevant because NBA basketball is a team game. So even if Dave could beat him 1-on-1, it doesn't really matter. You aren't winning shit with 1-on-1 :lol.
^^^^ Shut up moron. In their prime..... Dave is better than Tim. Period.
Not not not not even close. Ever. On any planet.
In the open court, David would beat Tim. But Tim would torch David on the block.
Robinson did more than win in head to head numbers. It's not really close at all. Until Rudy T (probably by accident) invented the inside-out offense, in which you have a low post player surrounded by three point shooters, which nobody knew how to defend, the Rockets didn't have any real success, even with one of the great players of all time. Prior to this era, when somebody came into a game hitting three pointers at a decent clip, the conventional wisdom said to let them keep shooting, because the percentages dictated that they couldn't sustain it. Suddenly the Rockets were sustaining it. The Rockets just happened to have several of the best three point shooters in history on their team at the same time and it completely changed the way teams play today. The Spurs owe all of their success to that model.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kidd K
Dave didn't start off his career really caring about winning, but that changed a couple of years before Timmy arrived. I'm sure Timmy would give a lot of credit to Dave for teaching him how to win. Timmy didn't exactly take over and dominate the NCAA tournament as a college player. It's entirely possible that if Mario Elie never becomes a Spur, this franchise goes in a vastly different direction.
One last thing: Let's not pretend that David EVER had a group of teammates around him as good as the ones Duncan had around him virtually his entire career. The two best pre-Timmy teams of Robinson's career were the '96 team, who was on track to go deep into the playoffs until Doc Rivers got injured, and the 1990 team, on which David and Elliott were both rookies.
Lol come on man.Quote:
Originally Posted by Skull-1
No titles is right.. Until Tim came along and handled all that..Quote:
Originally Posted by Skull-1
Fixed.Quote:
Originally Posted by dbreiden83080
:lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Obstructed_View
Legends of the hardwood right there..
People here do realize that 4 down is a one on one iso play, right?
Timmy was so amazing 1 on 1 that we got away with that play as our bread and butter for 4 titles. David was an incredibly amazing player, but he was no Timmy.
Idk, D-Rob is the reason I became a Spurs fan and I despised Timmy because him and Tony Rutland used to always seem to find a way to beat the Terps. That being said though when Timmy first entered the league he seemed to have a more consistent jump shot than D-Rob. But how the questioned was asked D-Rob seemed like they had played a few times and he handled Timmy.
David was far and away the most athletic, talented Spurs player.
But he didn't have the same desire to win as Duncan. The way he carried a team with no secondary star in 2013 was beyond what David could do in his prime. The way Duncan willed himself from 2011 first round exit, humiliated by Randalph/Gasol, to two NBA finals appearances required a divorce plus more commitment than David ever could put in. Duncan is much closer to Kobe/Jordan in the desire to win, David always struck me as "basketball is just a game" and family first.
1v1 is hard to say, 2003 Duncan beat Shaq (albeit at tail end of his prime) 1v1. But prime David had no problem with young Shaq either. I would call it a wash.
I think it depends on the dimensions of the court. If, for example, it was DRob's driveway and the roses are out of bounds it favors Robinson, if its the daisies or garden gnomes it favors Duncan.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtdvzMw72Wg
The admiral, by comparison, was part of some pretty crappy teams. When Sean Elliott is the second best player on the team, you don't have a championship caliber team. Give the Admiral Tony Parker and Mau Ginobili and I guarantee you the circumstances change. David Robinson, not a team leader or team player? Don't make things up just to try to prove a point. Tim Duncan owes a lot of his early career success to the Admiral, who took him under his wing. The Admiral had many of the same characteristics you're giving Duncan. The only difference being Robinson had to carry more of the work load for his team to succeed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowboys_Wear_Spurs
2013 Parker was 6th in MVP voting...Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmantb
would have been top 3 if not for injuryQuote:
Originally Posted by Aztecfan03
Quote:
Originally Posted by dbreiden83080
No Dave. No Tim.
No Dave. No titles.
Dave is the cornerstone of it all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by N0 LyF3 ScRuB
Dave was a beast. Tim would have wilted after getting mashed in the face with a Dave block.
Do you have a link?Quote:
Originally Posted by Sec24Row7
Tim Duncan had DRob to mentor him though and explain about the pains of loss. Who did DRob have? Yeah exactly, he had to carry the team with MVP numbers from day 1 until he got hurt and the team sucked so bad they got the top pick and with it, Tim Duncan.Quote:
Originally Posted by hitmantb
DRob deserves a lot more credit than he's getting here. I am starting to wonder when some of you guys started watching the Spurs with all the dumps you guys are taking on him.
Spurfan should never trash Duncan, Robinson, or Gervin.
Sorry I meant 2003. Change Duncan of that year to MVP David 1995. Do you really think we would have won?
That was Duncan at his peak. His love for David pushed him over the limit and gave David the best possible ending of a hall of fame career. I just can't see David doing the same thing against three peat Lakers.
Someone already posted the Doc Rivers interview here, so I won't repost, but David has repeatedly recounted stories about how he couldn't guard Timmy during that 1997 training camp.
Again, Robinson is a top 20 all time player, and one of the most athletic players in the history of the game who also possessed a great faceup game. HOWEVER, Timmy was no slouch athletically, was more coordinated than David, more skilled, had just as good of a faceup game (if not better), and a much better post game.
These comments are no knock on David, a guy who helped create the foundation for the Spurs as a model franchise, but Timmy was just that good in his prime. Again, we won championships with a high post iso as our go-to play.
And for all of those knocking David's teammates and going on and on about how much help Timmy had. Please look at our rosters from 2002-2004.
Starting 5 2002:
Parker (rookie)
Steve Smith (about to retire)
Bruce Bowen
Timmy
DRob (injured for a good portion of the playoffs and was essentially useless against the Lakers in the semifinals)
2003:
Parker (still inconsistent, nowhere near where he would be later)
Jackson (our 2nd best player, cut by the Nets the year before)
Bowen
Timmy
DRob (still a defensive anchor, but a shell of his former self due to injuries/father time)
2004:
Parker (started to find himself in this season, but still couldn't shoot to save his life)
Ginobili (started to find himself as well, but still erratic and wouldn't erupt until a year later)
Bowen
Timmy
Nesterovich (average, run-of-the-mill center...and that's being nice)
In those 3 seasons the Spurs were ranked no lower than 3rd in the West, won one championship, and came damn close in 04. That 2002 team also went toe to toe with the 3-peat Lakers, but couldn't hold a lead in the 4th quarter to save their lives.