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Cavs going all in.
It's on now.
You guys think the Cavs are now the favorites to make the finals from the East?
Unbelievable that Lebron seems to get whatever he wants most of the time.
Not sure who is gonna play defense on that team... Actually liked the idea of Lebron going back to the Cavs at first but I hate that move, makes it pretty easy to root against them now tbh...
:lol
Lebron. Still needing to recruit superstar player in order to feel secured.
Good for Wiggins.
Now he can be a legit contender for ROY
Overrated no-D statpadder who's never been to the playoffs.
:lol
Yeah, I think they gave up to much to get him, but who knows.Quote:
Originally Posted by spursparker9
They're getting a superstar in addition to the overrated stat-padder? Who is it?Quote:
Originally Posted by spursparker9
Cavs are going to be an interesting squad, but still have a lot to prove. Kyrie and Love can both put up big stats, but they are used to doing so by having the ball in their hands and being the primary (oftentimes sole) option.
I still think the Heat had a better dynamic and a more complete and well-rounded bench.
Good for Cleveland.
My money's still on the old, slow guys tho.
People still hate Lebron for "needing" superstars to win? :lol Funny
Stephen A. Smith proclaims that Minny got screwed and should have taken Klay Thompson.
I think Minny made out great. Wiggins, Anthony Bennett and a 1st round pick (albeit toward the end of the round).
That's much better than Klay Thompson.
Also... rumor is Marion leaning towards taking less and signing with Cavs... they definitely look like the favorites in the East with Bulls right behind them.
Different GM, same story. Minnesota getting pennies on the dollar
I agree. Not only that, rumor was that Bennett could go to Sixers for Thaddeus Young in third part of the trade.Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ
:lol letting Lebron be the GM
Stupid fucks didnt learn the first time.
I'm quite content to see the Cavs give up two #1 picks and $120 million for an "elite" big man who shoots 45% from the field and has never made the playoffs...
Bennett was terrible last year and may only ever be serviceable. If Wiggins is better than Thompson then this was the better deal, but really GSW should stick with Klay - he's great for them.
Cleveland looks good but are no better than Miami was last year, if a bit worse. But they aren't expecting to win it this year, I hope. They'll need to grow into it.
Also, Love is a good piece but I'd rather have a strong defender down low. They'll have to find one.
Lebron would be the GM on 29 teams.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill_Brasky
That's a good deal for both teams. Minny got the best they could have realistically hoped for. Cleveland got a legit third star for two unproven rookies and a late pick.
And LeBeta wonders why everyone hates him, when he does stuff like this, it makes people hate 100x more, lol cant win without a stacked team, has to leave to a better team because he doesnt have the balls to go through adversity
The deal would have been even better for Cleveland if they had waited it out.
But apparently they wanna win now. Which they still wont.
Absolutely.Quote:
Originally Posted by BG_Spurs_Fan
I think Bennett will be better, but more along the lines of a D Gooden type of player overall (I couldn't think of any other good comparisons.... M Williams maybe?).Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Body
I do think Wiggins will eventually be better than Klay. Wiggins already seems more multi faceted then Klay who suffers from being satisfied with just shooting 3s.
And I would have to say I think Cle this year will be a lot closer to Mia last year then not. And if Irving and Love get in a groove with Lebron, their ceiling will be a lot higher than last years Miami team. I wouldn't necessarily say Bosh was a good defender down low. An occasional block isn't saying much. So Verajo, Thompson, and Love (when he feels like it) would be serviceable with weak centers throughout the East playoff contenders. For now, I think Cavs will play the defense of scoring more to exhaust other teams on defense and making them too tired to score as effectively.
It's not like it's a bad move. Love is no proven playoff player but he ain't Mo Williams or Delonte West either.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill_Brasky
No one knows if he will be a playoff performer till he actually gets there. I think he will be fine in playoffs and do well (i.e. Garnett w/o his defense) once he gets there, but his knock will always be lack of defense. With so many options (Irving, Waiters, Thompson, Lebron, Miller), he won't need to put up similar numbers as last year (26pt, 12bds, 4asst) to be effective for the Cavs. And he will already have a max contract to complain if he doesn't get his numbers. Either way, Lebron and company can put up some nice distractions to open him up on the 3pt line all day long. Its going to be interesting how it all works together, but their egos should be out the door w/max deals for most part with the big 3.Quote:
Originally Posted by 100%duncan
No one knows how Wiggins will end up too. One thing's for sure he won't be half-as good as Love is in 3 years which is the Cavs' championship window imho.Quote:
Originally Posted by montgod
I agree... but I think the Cavs would have been good either way. I think he is going to be a really good player especially on the defensive end which would have worked will since Irving is allergic to defense to some degree. With them keeping him, he would have definitely helped on the perimeter defense if anything and developed into a very good scorer from the outside. Kevin Love is in his prime, but is mainly an offensive threat w/benefits on the boards. Pros and Cons each way...Quote:
Originally Posted by 100%duncan
Yup. They were winning the East either way so whatever imho.Quote:
Originally Posted by montgod
Squad is kind of like the Heat. Great starting 3 with no bench..
And with Georges injury they win the east pretty easy.. But may have a showdown with the Heat oh won't that be fun?
I don't think there can be a "firm agreement" that Love has to opt out and re-sign. There certainly can't be anything binding. That would be VERY against the CBA.
I'm keen to see if Philly is going to be involved as well. Will Bennett be enough for Young? He should be. But if Minny gives up a pick as well, it would be bananas.
Just do Parker/Manu & Splitter/Duncan pick n roll against Kyrie & Love all game long
I don't agree. I actually like their bench of Waiters, Thompson, Miller and Marion and Lucas is a decent backup at pg... haven't looked at who else is on it but that's decent.Quote:
Originally Posted by dbreiden83080
Did they get Marion already? They still have that unknown commodity - new coach. Most everything is new with the Cavs ...Quote:
Originally Posted by montgod
Love it! I had concernes about Cavs getting Love without giving up on Wiggins. Also had concernes about a clicking LeBron/Wiggins lineup...Irvin/Bron/Love is good, but no threat to the Spurs, if they meet in the Finals.
Also like it for the Wolves.
Crazy how a such moronic franchise can still be good after screwing up several picks in a row.
Reaching for Tristan Thompson and passing on Valanciunas, Leonard, Klay Thompson
Reaching for Dion Waiters and passing on Lillard and Drummond
Reaching for Anthony Bennett and passing on Oladipo, MCW, Nerlens Noel
Pathetic. I wanna see Cleveland getting their butts kicked badly and I think that the Bulls will do it.
42pts, 14reb, 8-9 3PT
Sure as hell beats his old broken down big 3
The East is still the JV in the NBA.
Cavs have to throw in a 2015 first rounder too? As if two #1 picks wasn't enough? :lol Cavs just didn't learn anything from last time they lost Lebron did they? They are so insecure about Lebron leaving that they are willing to sacrifice their entire future to bring back short term gains. Trading away two #1 picks and another first rounder for a 6'8 PF who doesn't play defense when the Cavs had all the leverage? I still think the Cavs should probably have made some trade for Love that involved some of their young players but to give up so many young assets, they could have made a far better deal. But they are just too scared of Lebron being unhappy for one year that they negotiated terribly. Should have played hardball and offered Waiters, Bennett, and 1 or 2 first round picks. That's still a comparable package that the Magic got for Howard... and Howard was the best center in the league at that time.
They really do look similar to LeBron's Heat teams. Irving/Love is probably a slight upgrade over Wade/Bosh at this point especially if they show they can perform in the playoffs. One of the big things the Cavs lack though is experience.Quote:
Originally Posted by dbreiden83080
I don't get what people are saying, both teams did well. Everyone knows what Klay is for the most part and he literally does no good for Minny. Minny has to take swings for stars (and cheap ones) and it's hard to argue (based on what was offered/reported) that they could have done any better than what they did.
CLE does this for obvious reasons and it makes their ceiling incredibly high. Anyone saying that MIA last year was better is foolish IMO. Wade continued to struggle with health/defense and that alone lowered their ceiling. CLE should at least in theory be so much better offensively than the Heat were. They literally upgraded offensively at almost every position. They still have an ok bench (that has some youth) so they are ahead of the Heat there.
Their big concern is AV's health and overall wing defense. Their defense should be quite bad as it stands now with no improvement from Love/Kyrie and they need some wing defenders with Wiggins gone. But I think both teams did well for the most part.
If Love re-signing is true, their payroll is going to be bananas!
its insane what teams have to do to beat the spurs.......for the last 10 years they have been doing this......funny.
Lol 200 mil to two statpadders without any success.
Boris gonna put Love in the spin cycle if we meet in the Finals :lol
I think this is a BIG mistake.
Wiggins, IMO, is better than Love right now. Everyone talks about his "potential", but what I see is a freakish athlete whose overall game is vastly underrated. He's a good shooter, an elite defender, and an overall behemoth on the court. Love is no behemoth. Nobody respects him on D.
Look, somebody had to score all those points and get all those rebounds on a BAD Minnesota team. Stats are overrated. How many points did Monta Ellis average with Golden State and Milwaukee? How many points/assists did/do Chris Paul and Steve Nash average year in and year out in comparison to Tony Parker? I think people look at Love's career average way too much and not Kevin Love the basketball player enough. Wiggins would smoke him 1 on 1.
Bad choice, Lebron. Can't believe you passed up on the opportunity to play alongside the next you. The next behemoth in the NBA. What a shame. 5 years from now we'll all look back, everyone will see what a terrible mistake this was for the Cavs.
Great move by Minnesota!
whos gonna play defense besides lebron? :lol
Love averaged 25 ppg, 11 boards and .411 fg% against us last season and that's fallen in line with what he's usually done against us in his career. His usage percentage is high in the games he's played us, and while his Drtg sucks, he's hounded us with defensive boards and his true stretching of the floor has created several opportunities for his teammates. There's no denying this is the buy a Championship Heat 2.0 and will be a formidable opponent should we meet them in the finals next year but as it currently stands, I still like our chances against them in a tough finals. Fucking LeBron though so insecure of himself he always needs his team to buy their way into a title for him and get stars left and right. I'll never respect him for that.
Not worried about Love...
I'm actually glad the Great Satan was stupid enough to trade the next superstar in Wiggins for an overrated scrub in Kevin Love. The Great Satan will be laughed at when Wiggins dominates this league in a year or two.
I think this puts them as favorites to come out of the East. I don't buy the Rose stuff yet.
love is too white to be in a "big 3"
Cavs overpayed. It will probably work out good for them this year, but in the long term i think this trade is a mistake.
I'm going to wait until it it confirmed by TSpence before I give any credence to this Woj guy...
But neither Irving nor Love play defense...and who's in the middle? Varejao can't stay healthy enough to stay on the floor...and Haywood is already 34...and Waiters and Irving don't get along, especially with Waiters being a total headcase...that team is going to be really interesting to watch, but perhaps not in a good way.Quote:
Originally Posted by -21-
Anderson Verajao/Tristan Thompson
Kevin Love/Shawn Marion
Lebron James/Mike Miller
Dion Waiters/Ray Allen?/James Jones
Kyrie Irving/Matt Dellavadova
If they get Ray Allen, that looks like a pretty good team to me. Bench is a little thin but that starting 5 looks pretty nasty. They should be favorites out East and if they get to the finals, will be a tough team to beat. Their offensive firepower is off the charts.
Leonard guards LeBron, Diaw guards Love, Green guards Irving. Problem solved!
Good trade for Cleveland though. Instantly makes them Finals favorites even if Love wasn't going there.
I'll be worried when I see Varejao go a season without a long layoff, you just can't count on him to be healthy for the playoffs. Without Varejao, that team looks very vulnerable to a team with any kind of size. If George wasn't injured I'd fancy the Pacers in a series, but I definitely fancy the Bulls with Noah/Gasol even if Rose isn't back to MVP form.Quote:
Originally Posted by myhc
Exactly, I rooted for him when he first went to Cleveland but now this team up crap again and watch Ray Allen and a few more VETS run over there to try to piggy back to another RING.Quote:
Originally Posted by spursparker9
Who wants to be lonely? Who wants to be with Lebron tonight? oohh oohhh
The weird one is Marion, why would he take so little to play with Lebron? If he's going to take the minimum I thought he would go back to the Mavericks, they're a contender and he's won a ring there. If he wants more then I understand leaving as the Mavs can't compete on salary.
Not every franchise has the brains like Pop and RC to build through the draft so of course the other route is building these 'superteams". LeBron was a one-man team his last two seasons in Miami so i dont get why some people still think he had a lot of help. :lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Sean Cagney
No defense and still nobody in the paint. Not sure Kyrie will transition to playing more off the ball so smoothly. Some injury prone guys there. If the Derek Rose stories are true then Chicago is still the favorite imo. Big gap after Chicago and Cleveland though.
lol, some guys here finding some way to criticize cleveland for catching the best rebounder in the world
If Lebron can make this team contend in the NBA Finals then hes easily the 2nd best player in history
They have Parsons and RJ (:lol) now. Marion could get more playing time in Cleveland.Quote:
Originally Posted by Richie
Cavs did not have all the leverage. There were plenty of options and teams who wanted Love. Minny had Love and even though he advised them he would leave, they still had plenty of leverage. Especially when you consider that CLE would not have the money to sign KL in Free Agency. The only chance to get him was via trade and there were plenty of teams lined up.Quote:
Originally Posted by 024
This is the world's strangest argument to me. It's so odd. It would be like saying you don't respect Tim because he didn't request that Manu/TP leave when they were superstars and got paid well because Tim was insecure he couldn't win without a bunch of crap.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpurPadre
Whether it comes via draft (which Lebron has no control over) or trades (about the only way guys will come to CLE knowingly) or FA (Spurs have added FA's to help them win with Finley, ect..) it is just a hateful argument with no real substance. There is a punitive salary cap and it's not like CLE or MIA for that matter have exploded past it into BKY territory. Even if they did, so what?
There have been plenty of big 3's and guys taking less money to win (Duncan), so it's just silly to me.
Except that Klay is a proven commodity and Wiggins and Bennett are not. And Minnie got more than Klay. He was one piece, but the deal also involved Harrison Barnes and David Lee. Or some combination of players that were good and proven.Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ
What do you think would have been "fair"? Keep in mind, that CLE, if they wanted Love could not sign him in FA. They had to trade for him if they wanted him.Quote:
Originally Posted by velik_m
The good thing is the Spurs doing it the so called right way can compete and win titles in this so called super team league! That part right there is a good thing and the throwback teams still have hope (OKC built theirs as well on their own and can compete IMO). I am glad the Spurs are around!Quote:
Originally Posted by timtonymanu
I agree on the last two years as well, Wade did help him in last years finals though bigtime although he didn't show up at all this year. Wade is just pretty much done as a star in the league, got old and yes Lebron carried them through a weak East.
The Pacers sucked even with PG and Lance. They couldn't beat a Heat team with more mileage, a worse bench and a much worse offense.Quote:
Originally Posted by Richie
Their roster with youth/athleticism/rebounding is a great fit for the East. There just isn't anyone in the East with size to punish them enough to keep them from an ECF. The Pacers are worse, WAS in theory should be good, but guys like Nene/Gortat look a lot better than they functionally are. Charlotte has an outside shot but it's tough to bet on them. CHI has size, but will Noah really eat you alive scoring wise down low? Pau is good obviously, but as of now they appear to be the only real threat and likely won't see each other until the ECF.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic Petro
The key is Love/Kyrie. They should be damn good offensively as a team, but it is still yet to be seen how Love/Kyrie react with lower usage rates. They may go through some slumps like MIA did when they were learning each other and it may be worse because they can't fall back on great defense while they figure it out. There are some concerns, but with regards to winning a title in CLE, they did about as great as you could do (brought in young star in his prime in Love, shipped out a busted Sophmore and talented rookie).
Spurs have a super team with a big 3 too. They did it before Lebron.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean Cagney
I meant run to team up together. I understand Boston had those guys traded to them in 08 but the guys running to a team and then old vets running there as well to team up chasing a ring. This NBA is kind of weak IMO from that. You have no parity, the West has about an even field but the East is one team year after year it seems with decent to bad teams after that. I would love to see Competition.Quote:
Originally Posted by DPG21920
But every team does that. Spurs had old vets chasing rings come to them (Horry, Finley, ect..). It's not just isolated to Lebron. Lebron taking less money to play with better teammates (and his cast was very good, but no better than Tim/Manu/TP) is hated, while the Spurs are lauded for that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean Cagney
I get not liking things overall, but not respecting Lebron singled out for something everyone does is baffling to me. There are plenty of reasons to not like Lebron IMO, but that should not be one.
I know. It's another one of their flaws... Defense. :lolQuote:
Originally Posted by toki9
See I just don't get the Derrick Rose hype. In 2011 the Bulls got CRUSHED by the Heat in the ECF 4-1 (the Heat won 4 straight) and that Heat team had no bench and started Mike Bibby at PG. That was Rose's MVP year and the Bulls had the best record in the NBA. Didn't matter. The Heat DESTROYED them with both Derrick Rose and the Bulls at their absolute peak. And now 4 years later people wanna talk about the Bulls being the team to beat in the East...when since then they've lost in the playoffs to the #8 seed 76ers (4-2), the #1 seed Heat, (4-1) and the #5 seed Wizards (4-1). And they're basically the same team they were 4 years ago but without a bench and with a washed up and old Pau Gasol.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic Petro
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluebellmaniac
Last 2 seasons D Wade and Bosh is arguably more help than Tim Duncan ever had, tbh, imo.Quote:
Originally Posted by timtonymanu
You mean Irving, Waiters and Love don't play defense?:lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Holden_Caulfield
You might be right. I'm not as confident as you are, but if Wiggins turns out to be a superstar, and Love has declined significantly in a few years, this trade would go down in infamy.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheyCallMePro
PG-Irving
SG-Waiters
SF-James
PF-Love
C-Varejao
Bench
PG-Dellavedola/JLIII
SG-Allen (possibly)
SF-Miller
PF-Marion (possibly)
C-Hayward/ Okafor (possibly)
not a bad unit. Probably not going to be very good defensively though. Probably league average at best.
Would have made more sense to add Kevin Martin to the deal. If Allen doesn't come back for another season. Then that bench would be ,mediocre, at best.
The missing piece on that roster, Wiggins. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by myhc
The Bulls have enough to possibly beat the Cavs in the ECF, but as of right now either the Bulls or Cavs will be in the NBA finals in June for the East. I don't see any other East opponent beating either Bulls or Cavs in a 7 game series, except the Wiz could play spoiler again. So if health prevails for both teams, they will be going at it in the ECF. Now the NBA finals are a different story, not sold that either can beat the Thunder or Spurs, but it's not impossible. It would be a huge upset if either the Cavs or Bulls are bounced out of the playoffs before the ECF, unless they both go at it in the 2nd round.
Salary scales for #1 picks get pricey, but would much rather pay those two combined $11.5, $13.3 and $17.1 (Bennett's that year is a qualifying offer) for the three seasons AFTER this one and pray for them to reach their potential than to give Thompson a max extension that pays him more than both of those guys combined. Don't get me wrong, Thompson is a very good player (hides Curry's awful D) and deserves to get paid, but two is better than one, particularly with them under control at well below market rates for a longer period of time. So much for the rumor of Bennett going to Philly in the deal with Thad Young to the Wolves. I'd rather keep the two young kids and see how they develop.Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ
Perhaps pairing Thompson with Rubio would have made basketball sense given Rubio can't shoot to save his life and Thompson would help spread the floor.
OKC and SAS have waaaaaay too much offense for the current Cavs team. Cleveland would need to slow their Finals opponent down and I don't see it there. Spurs made mincemeat out of a Heat defense that was hitherto very good and they had better defensive players. I don't know if the Cavs can out score us. Plus on experience, I don't like Kyrie or Waiters against Parker and Ginobili.
I think Cleveland could take OKC.
Love is one of the best players to put next to Lebron but I would have liked to see the James/Wiggins duo on the wings.
Either Love can't carry a team on his back or the West's top eight is tough to crack. Just happy he can finally play in the playoffs, no matter how Pyrrhic an eastern conference playoff slot seems like. Can say assembling a team feels like pussying out, but it can also look like deft planning and manoeuvring. Not everyone can replicate the Spurs' blueprint for success and it's tough to expect that from the rest of the league.
Wolves looking to unload JJ Barea, Alexey Shved, and Luc Richard Mbah A Moute btw
I went to that Wolves game last year where he made a few hundred 3's. Couldn't miss. We still won though.
This Cavs team will get way better than the last seasons' Heat. Waaaaay better.
For all the obvious reasons, this puts them in contention, but with all the question marks, I'd be surprised if they won the championship next season. I keep hearing about how the Spurs' odds should be lower because they play in the West, as if there's a litany of teams that could beat them, when in reality there's the exact same number that could beat them (one, maybe two) that could beat the Cavaliers in the East.
I'd go . . .
1. Spurs/Thunder
2. Thunder/Spurs
3. Bulls
4. Cavaliers
5. Clippers
As far as their rotation, it sounds like Moore may be brought in to be the backup PG, or at least compete with Dellavedova for it. Whoever they bring in at C, I suspect Thompson ends up as the primary backup, with Marion backing up both forward positions. If Allen eventually signs, then Marion would become strictly the backup PF and Miller the backup SF.
Not that easy to assemble a championship team. It helps that the East is so ridiculously weak. But still it just isn't that easy. You never know how players will gel. Also when Lebron went to Miami in 2010 Wade was already a Finals MVP. Kevin Love has never played in the playoffs. I guess we'll see.
No, you will see players just flock there now, Horry came yes and most thought he was done then and Finley was basically by himself coming here, not a 3 or 4 old vets running to the team one player has (Miami and now Cleveland). Spurs get a vet here or there like Barry, Finley and Horry but never in the same year when a big name comes to their team, thats different than coming to a vet club and by yourself and not with 2 or 3 other guys. I don't see the resemblence between the Spurs and Heat or Cleveland here, they seem to just flock there where he goes and watch this offseason more and more will come.Quote:
Originally Posted by DPG21920
I have nothing against Lebron BTW, it's just the older guys who all fly to the team he is on when he gets there to try and get one ring or one last ring that makes me kind of chuckle, watch Ray Allen end up there now to follow him again. I would not doubt a few others joint Mike Miller and Jones etc. running there now, seems to be the theme where he goes.We will just have to wait and see that, nothing is a given and they need to gel like someone above said.Quote:
Originally Posted by guilhermercf