Manu Ginobili thinks he might play another season after this one

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Originally Posted by ElNono

He just posted the #2 PER in the team for the entire playoffs, all his playoffs metrics were off the charts after a down season the year before... made Wade look like an old man, and Wade just extended for $15m/season...

The Spurs are going to hand him a blank check like last time, tbh... a deal in the $7m-$9m range would still make him underpaid but would help the Spurs retain the current talent... IMO

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PER stats? That's a testament for Pop. Knows when to use manu and when not to. No team is going to bank on him given his injury history. My points still stand. Are you really using wade as a starting point? There are other circumstances for wades salary.
Point being, other teams aren't looking at manu through tinted glasses. You think a team is going to give him 15mil a year just because he played better than wade? You don't need to answer that one.

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Originally Posted by dabom

PER stats? That's a testament for Pop. Knows when to use manu and when not to. No team is going to bank on him given his injury history. My points still stand. Are you really using wade as a starting point? There are other circumstances for wades salary.
Point being, other teams aren't looking at manu through tinted glasses. You think a team is going to give him 15mil a year just because he played better than wade? You don't need to answer that one.

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Disagree completely. Coaches like Doc Rivers love themselves some Gino, and now that Kerr is in Golden State, he couldn't stop praising him and would love to have him.
But it really doesn't matter. The Spurs know how important Manu is for our program on and off the court, so they'll extend him a blank check like last time. Which is fine, he earned it.

And no, he isn't worth $15m... His production probably puts him in the $7m-$9m range, but his fan favorite status probably adds another million or so... that's why I'm saying hopefully he picks towards the lower end of the spectrum...
Spursfan perception of how much players are worth is fairly skewed after Tim and Manu (top two producers in the last playoff run) both took discounts. Timmy is worth well above $10m... even at his current age.

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Originally Posted by ElNono

Disagree completely. Coaches like Doc Rivers love themselves some Gino, and now that Kerr is in Golden State, he couldn't stop praising him and would love to have him.
But it really doesn't matter. The Spurs know how important Manu is for our program on and off the court, so they'll extend him a blank check like last time. Which is fine, he earned it.

And no, he isn't worth $15m... His production probably puts him in the $7m-$9m range, but his fan favorite status probably adds another million or so... that's why I'm saying hopefully he picks towards the lower end of the spectrum...
Spursfan perception of how much players are worth is fairly skewed after Tim and Manu (top two producers in the last playoff run) both took discounts. Timmy is worth well above $10m... even at his current age.

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Tim is definitely taking a paycut. If manu's production puts him at the 8mil range, then 8.5 isn't a paycut. You just answered my question. And look at KG, he leaves and then he becomes an injured bum. The spurs FO knows what's best for Manu after all these years. They both need one another to exist.

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Originally Posted by dabom

Tim is definitely taking a paycut. If manu's production puts him at the 8mil range, then 8.5 isn't a paycut. You just answered my question. And look at KG, he leaves and then he becomes an injured bum. The spurs FO knows what's best for Manu after all these years. They both need one another to exist.

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He went from $14m to $7m, a 50% paycut when his production didn't slip anywhere near as much, as we've seen. While the coaches do take care of him, it's amazing the kind of production he puts out there at his age, and he does that, not Pop or the FO. IMO, he's in the $8m-$10m range, and talented players normally do get the ceiling, not the floor... that's why $8.5m would be giving the Spurs some help, tbh... I mean, Kobe is getting $24m next season solely for putting people on the seats... which Manu also largely does in Mexico north...

All that said, I'm not concerned, I know that if Manu wants to keep playing, him and the Spurs will come to an agreement that works for both... he already said he wants to be a Spurs for life, so I don't expect him to go anywhere...
I also think if Timmy hangs them up after next season, Gino might follow suit too...

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Originally Posted by ElNono

He went from $14m to $7m, a 50% paycut when his production didn't slip anywhere near as much, as we've seen. While the coaches do take care of him, it's amazing the kind of production he puts out there at his age, and he does that, not Pop or the FO. IMO, he's in the $8m-$10m range, and talented players normally do get the ceiling, not the floor... that's why $8.5m would be giving the Spurs some help, tbh... I mean, Kobe is getting $24m next season solely for putting people on the seats... which Manu also largely does in Mexico north...

All that said, I'm not concerned, I know that if Manu wants to keep playing, him and the Spurs will come to an agreement that works for both... he already said he wants to be a Spurs for life, so I don't expect him to go anywhere...
I also think if Timmy hangs them up after next season, Gino might follow suit too...

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I'm pretty sure they will work something out, but that idea that 8.5 is a paycut is ludicrous. Anyone else have a POV on this?

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Originally Posted by dabom

I'm pretty sure they will work something out, but that idea that 8.5 is a paycut is ludicrous. Anyone else have a POV on this?

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I call it bait, but you did drag me into an interesting conversation :lol

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Originally Posted by ElNono

I call it bait, but you did drag me into an interesting conversation :lol

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:toast

7M-9M is about right for Manu.. That's really a discount for getting him to stay in the team..

imo, Kawhi should be getting more than Manu in the end. May not be in the initial years, but definitely in 2-3 years time.

Another player for comparison is Boris. He is also getting around the 7M-9M figure.

Kind of hope Duncan and Ginobili retire after next season.

Better to start the retooling sooner rather than later.

Would give us more cap room to work with to build around Parker, Leonard, Splitter. Diaw, Anderson, and Mills (player under contract after next season)

Green, Belinelli and Leonard (RFA) are the only main free agents that we have.

also, maybe, bring over both Bertans and Livio-Jean Charles.

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Originally Posted by gilmor

7M-9M is about right for Manu.. That's really a discount for getting him to stay in the team..

imo, Kawhi should be getting more than Manu in the end. May not be in the initial years, but definitely in 2-3 years time.

Another player for comparison is Boris. He is also getting around the 7M-9M figure.

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Maybe give Ginobili a two year partially guaranteed deal worth $9 million. A golden parachute type of deal that would pay $4.5 million in 15-16 and partially guaranteed for 1/3 ($1.50 million)or 1/2 ($2.25 million) of $4.5 million in 16-17. He would still get payed even if he retires after the first year of the deal..

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Originally Posted by spurs1990

According to hoopshype payroll page the following are under contact for '16"

Parker
Splitter
Diaw
Mills
Anderson
Belinelli
Kawhi
Joseph

for about $35m.

So we'd have roughly $30m to spend between TD, Manu, and DG plus the reserves.

TD - 10 m
Manu - 7m
Green - 6m

Sound about right?

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Already discussed in the Think Tank...

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Originally Posted by bluebellmaniac

	Player	2014/2015	2015/2016
1	Tony Parker	$12,500,000	$13,400,000
2	Tim Duncan	$10,361,446	$15,542,169	*Cap Hold
3	Tiago Splitter	$9,250,000	$8,500,000
4	Boris Diaw	$7,500,000	$7,000,000
5	Manu Ginobili	$7,000,000	$10,500,000	*Cap Hold
6	Danny Green	$4,025,000	$7,647,500	*Cap Hold
7	Patty Mills	$3,842,105	$3,578,947
8	Kawhi Leonard	$2,894,059	$7,235,148	*Cap Hold
9	Marco Belinelli	$2,873,750	$3,735,875	*Cap Hold
10	Cory Joseph	$2,023,261	$5,058,153	*Cap Hold
11	Jeff Ayers	$1,828,750	$2,377,375	*Cap Hold
12	Aron Baynes	$1,115,243	$1,147,276	*Cap Hold
13	Kyle Anderson	$1,096,680	$1,142,879
14	Austin Daye	$1,063,384	$947,276	*Cap Hold
15	Matt Bonner	$915,283	$947,276	*Cap Hold
			W/ Cap Holds	WO/Cap Holds + 6 Roster Charges
	TOTALS	$68,218,737	$88,759,874	$38,692,180

For '15-'16, I think:

TD comes back at $10M.
Manu retires.
Green is due for a $6M - $7M deal.
Kawhi: $14M
CoJo re-signs for $2M or very possibly leaves for a bigger payday elsewhere.
Beli re-signs for $3M.
Ayers is toast.
Baynes re-ups for close to or at the minimum.
Daye stays for close to minimum.
Bonner retires (finally).

We bring over LJC and Bertans, bringing our roster to 14 slots. We need to draft a PG if CoJo leaves, otherwise we need a big.
Of course LJC and Bertans are signed before Kawhi signs his deal to take advantage of his small cap hit.

So I think with those signings we look like this for '15-'16

Tony Parker	$13,400,000
Tim Duncan	$10,000,000
Tiago Splitter	$8,500,000
Boris Diaw	$7,000,000
Bertans	?
Danny Green	$6,500,000
Patty Mills	$3,578,947
Kawhi Leonard	$14,000,000
Marco Belinelli	$3,000,000
Cory Joseph	$2,000,000
LJC	?
Aron Baynes	$1,147,276
Kyle Anderson	$1,142,879
Austin Daye	$947,276
Draft Pick or MLE	?
Total	$71,216,378

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We'd be pushing pretty close to the Luxury Tax by the time our rookies are all signed. And that is with the expectation of Manu retiring. All bets are off on who stays and who goes if Manu comes back, that would definitely put us over.

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Originally Posted by bluebellmaniac

We'd be pushing pretty close to the Luxury Tax by the time our rookies are all signed. And that is with the expectation of Manu retiring. All bets are off on who stays and who goes if Manu comes back, that would definitely put us over.

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Isn't the cap supposed to grow an inordinate amount that year due to the new TV contract though?

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Originally Posted by ElNono

Isn't the cap supposed to grow an inordinate amount that year due to the new TV contract though?

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Yeah, I heard like $68M - $70M, but it looks like the FO is already anticipating that. We'll be pushing to stay under the tax even with the higher salary cap / tax threshold. If Manu comes back at even $5M, then we are looking at a $76M payroll with 13 players for '15-'16. If we want to bring over LJC + 1 more (say Bertans), then we'd be really pushing close to $80M in salary. That'd have to be close to the tax threshold if not over it.

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Originally Posted by diego

why would the paul george injury be an eye opener, was it the first time a basketball player got injured playing basketball? or is it somehow preferable to break your leg during the NBA season as opposed to for your national team?

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Because, just he said he in an interview right afterwards that due to his age, he needs to be more cautious at this point in his career. He seemed determine to play. Was even going to arbitration to fight the Spurs decision. But after seeing PG go down like he did, Manu knows if that happens, his career is done. Which is why he gracefully bowed out due to him still feeling pain in his leg.

Right now, if he takes care of himself, he has 2-3 years left in the tank. Manu is one of those never say die type of guys. It is not in his blood to just quit.

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Originally Posted by BillMc

I'd like to see him play 2 more years and then go out with his national team in the Olympics. I'm glad to hear that's a possibility.

I also tend to believe Duncan may be around for longer than we think. Timmy only seems to bring up retirement because he's always asked about it. After the finals he said he wanted "to hang on as long as he could." That's a paraphrase. But we could have Tim and Manu at least 2 more years!:toast I actually think Duncan's body could hold up that long. Not sure about Manu's but I'd hope so.

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I think with Tim, he could play at LEAST two more years, but with Manu, he could play at MOST two more years.

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Originally Posted by exstatic

I think with Tim, he could play at LEAST two more years, but with Manu, he could play at MOST two more years.

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Agree 100%

I hope he and Tim play at least two more years. I think they both can. Manu can be a positive difference maker with 15 minutes on the floor. Tim's style of play could allow him to play into his 40's.

It will be a sad, sad day for Spurs basketball when those two hang 'em up for the last time. I try not to think about it.

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Originally Posted by SanDiegoSpursFan

I still think it was all for show. I think he knew he wasn't gonna play but had to play up his nationalism for the fans.

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Seconded.... Manu Flopped =)

Until the "ruedas" fall off.

for how hard he plays, he sure does whine a lot

Tim and Manu playing another 2 season would be a Godsend, tbh. So long as they're healthy.

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Originally Posted by Ed Helicopter Jones

I hope he and Tim play at least two more years. I think they both can. Manu can be a positive difference maker with 15 minutes on the floor. Tim's style of play could allow him to play into his 40's.

It will be a sad, sad day for Spurs basketball when those two hang 'em up for the last time. I try not to think about it.

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co-sign

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Originally Posted by ElNono

Isn't the cap supposed to grow an inordinate amount that year due to the new TV contract though?

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Its been rumored to jump to as high as $80 million but that's for the 17-18 season (I think thats right). The next TV deal is reported to be for 16 billion dollars.

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Originally Posted by bluebellmaniac

Here are some corrections plus an update with TP's new contract:

	Player	2014/2015	2015/2016
1	Tony Parker	$12,500,000	$13,400,000
2	Tim Duncan	$10,361,446	$15,542,169	*Cap Hold
3	Tiago Splitter	$9,250,000	$8,500,000
4	Boris Diaw	$7,500,000	$7,000,000
5	Manu Ginobili	$7,000,000	$10,500,000	*Cap Hold
6	Danny Green	$4,025,000	$7,647,500	*Cap Hold
7	Patty Mills	$3,842,105	$3,578,947
8	Kawhi Leonard	$2,894,059	$7,235,148	*Cap Hold
9	Marco Belinelli	$2,873,750	$3,735,875	*Cap Hold
10	Cory Joseph	$2,023,261	$5,058,153	*Cap Hold
11	Jeff Ayers	$1,828,750	$2,377,375	*Cap Hold
12	Aron Baynes	$1,115,243	$1,147,276	*Cap Hold
13	Kyle Anderson	$1,096,680	$1,142,879
14	Austin Daye	$1,063,384	$947,276	*Cap Hold
15	Matt Bonner	$915,283	$947,276	*Cap Hold
			W/ Cap Holds	WO/Cap Holds + 6 Roster Charges
	TOTALS	$68,218,737	$88,759,874	$38,692,180

For '15-'16, I think:
TD comes back at $10M.
Manu retires.
Green is due for a $6M - $7M deal.
Kawhi: $14M
CoJo re-signs for $2M or very possibly leaves for a bigger payday elsewhere.
Beli re-signs for $3M.
Ayers is toast.
Baynes re-ups for close to or at the minimum.
Bonner retires (finally).

We bring over LJC and Bertans, bringing our roster to 14 slots. We need to draft a PG if CoJo leaves, otherwise we need a big.
Of course LJC and Bertans are signed before Kawhi signs his deal to take advantage of his small cap hit.

So I think with those signings we look like this for '15-'16

Tony Parker	$13,400,000
Tim Duncan	$10,000,000
Tiago Splitter	$8,500,000
Boris Diaw	$7,000,000
Bertans	?
Danny Green	$6,500,000
Patty Mills	$3,578,947
Kawhi Leonard	$14,000,000
Marco Belinelli	$3,000,000
Cory Joseph	$2,000,000
LJC	?
Aron Baynes	$1,147,276
Kyle Anderson	$1,142,879
Austin Daye	$947,276
Draft Pick or MLE	?
Total	$71,216,378

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1.Parker-$13,437,500
2. Mills-$3,578,947
3. Anderson-$1,142,879
4. Splitter-$8,500,000
5. Diaw-$7,500,000

6. LJC-$2.5 (guesstimation)
7. Bertans $2.1 (I use the B.A.E for reference)
8-Baynes-$1,300,000
9.Leonard- $16.6
-----------------------------------------
$56.6

or

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bluebellmaniac

Here are some corrections plus an update with TP's new contract:

	Player	2014/2015	2015/2016
1	Tony Parker	$12,500,000	$13,400,000
2	Tim Duncan	$10,361,446	$15,542,169	*Cap Hold
3	Tiago Splitter	$9,250,000	$8,500,000
4	Boris Diaw	$7,500,000	$7,000,000
5	Manu Ginobili	$7,000,000	$10,500,000	*Cap Hold
6	Danny Green	$4,025,000	$7,647,500	*Cap Hold
7	Patty Mills	$3,842,105	$3,578,947
8	Kawhi Leonard	$2,894,059	$7,235,148	*Cap Hold
9	Marco Belinelli	$2,873,750	$3,735,875	*Cap Hold
10	Cory Joseph	$2,023,261	$5,058,153	*Cap Hold
11	Jeff Ayers	$1,828,750	$2,377,375	*Cap Hold
12	Aron Baynes	$1,115,243	$1,147,276	*Cap Hold
13	Kyle Anderson	$1,096,680	$1,142,879
14	Austin Daye	$1,063,384	$947,276	*Cap Hold
15	Matt Bonner	$915,283	$947,276	*Cap Hold
			W/ Cap Holds	WO/Cap Holds + 6 Roster Charges
	TOTALS	$68,218,737	$88,759,874	$38,692,180

For '15-'16, I think:
TD comes back at $10M.
Manu retires.
Green is due for a $6M - $7M deal.
Kawhi: $14M
CoJo re-signs for $2M or very possibly leaves for a bigger payday elsewhere.
Beli re-signs for $3M.
Ayers is toast.
Baynes re-ups for close to or at the minimum.
Bonner retires (finally).

We bring over LJC and Bertans, bringing our roster to 14 slots. We need to draft a PG if CoJo leaves, otherwise we need a big.
Of course LJC and Bertans are signed before Kawhi signs his deal to take advantage of his small cap hit.

So I think with those signings we look like this for '15-'16

Tony Parker	$13,400,000
Tim Duncan	$10,000,000
Tiago Splitter	$8,500,000
Boris Diaw	$7,000,000
Bertans	?
Danny Green	$6,500,000
Patty Mills	$3,578,947
Kawhi Leonard	$14,000,000
Marco Belinelli	$3,000,000
Cory Joseph	$2,000,000
LJC	?
Aron Baynes	$1,147,276
Kyle Anderson	$1,142,879
Austin Daye	$947,276
Draft Pick or MLE	?
Total	$71,216,378

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1.Parker-$13,437,500
2. Mills-$3,578,947
3. Anderson-$1,142,879
4. Splitter-$8,500,000
5. Diaw-$7,500,000

6. LJC-$2.5 (guesstimation)
7. Bertans $2.1 (I use the B.A.E for reference)
8-Baynes-$1,300,000
9.Leonard- $16.6
----------------------------------------
$56.6 million

+Ginobili-$5,0
+Green-$5.5
+Belinelli-$4.0
+ MLE (5.3 million)

Parker-Mills
Green-Ginobili-Belinelli-Bertans
Leonard-Anderson
Diaw-Jean-Charles
Splitter-Baynes


renounce all other free agents ( Daye, Ayers, Baynes, Bonner, Duncan, retirement,)

or


1.Parker-$13,437,500
2. Mills-$3,578,947
3. Anderson-$1,142,879
4. Splitter-$8,500,000
5. Diaw-$7,500,000

6. LJC-$2.5 (guesstimation)
7. Bertans $2.1 (I use the B.A.E for reference)
8-Baynes-$1,300,000
9.Leonard- $7.2 (cap hold)
----------------------------------------
$47.2 million
+Milsap-$12.5
+Green-$5.5
2015 draft pick-$950,00 (depending on what pick exactly, that would be the salary for the 29tj)
-----------------------------------------
66.2 to 11 players

renounce all other free agents (Belinelli, Daye, Ayers, Baynes, Bonner, Joseph) Duncan and Ginobili annouce their retirement (in this scenerio)


Parker-Mills-Vet. Min PG
Green-Belinelli-Bertans
Leonard-Anderson
Milsap-Diaw-Jean-Charles
Splitter-Baynes-Vet Min. C


I think Green will recieve a deal around 4 yrs, $22 million (5.5 anually). Belinelli 3 years, $12-14 million.

Joseph is probably gone in any scenario. His QA $3.0 (for a 3rd string pg guard) and his cap hit would be $5 million until we resolve his contract situation.
I only have Baynes returning because he has familiarty with the Spurs.

Its hard to imagine the Spurs using back to back 1st rounders to draft players that can actually make the roster the same season (it happened from 08-'10 with Hill, Blair & James Anderon) but it would fill a roster spot on the cheap.

(sorry for the duplicate post)

Both Tim and Manu can basically sign for whatever after this year. I don't think money will be an issue with them if they want to come back, and likely adjust their salary to do the Spurs a solid, IMO.