PTR: "Leonard's Extension Tied to Retirement of manu & Tim"

Interesting article from Pounding the Rock. Claims the only way Kawhi gets his extension this summer is if Tim & Manu both decide to play another year after this season. Extending him this year, means no max money for free agents next summer. Seems to me, the smart thing for the Spurs to do is "convince" Manu & Tim to retire after this season and then explain to Kawhi that it's in the best interest of the team to wait until next summer to pay him, so they have enough cap room to chase a Marc Gasol or Aldridge-type player to replace Duncan to pair with Parker and him...



"Kawhi Leonard is eligible for an extension this year and the Spurs will have until the last day of October to decide what to do. Because of Leonard's play -- but also because of the way the market currently values wings with size -- Leonard is probably thinking about a max extension. After the Finals win, he seemed confident the Spurs and his agent would come to an understanding.

Yet there is no news on where the franchise stands on that. The Spurs are notoriously secretive, so that's not exactly shocking. But with Tony Parker already agreeing to an extension, it seems logical to assume Kawhi is next in line. That's why the lack of news seems less like a pregnant pause and more like the silent treatment. What's the hold up?

Read more...
http://www.poundingtherock.com/2014/...inobili-retire

Sounds like a reasonable strategy. I believe that the example set by guys like Timmy and Manu will carry over with Leonard. He's humble and he's tasted really success based on their sacrifice, so I believe it can be done.

Early success.

I'm not sure the contract extension is related to Tim/Manu retirements

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"There are strategic reasons to do it now or don't do it now,” Spurs general manager R.C. Buford told the Express-News on Friday. "There's nothing that requires it be done now."

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It sounds like they don't want to sign the extension.

But like Steve Kyler (Basketball Insiders) said:

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Even if Leonard gets to free agency in July, its fair more likely that the Spurs match offers than let him go, the question is do the Spurs want that in their locker room this year?

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A young guy, his uncertain financial future, waiting for more plays but Pop runs the offense with him as 3rd option...even if the kid isn't a ego-guy he needs show his potential if he'll test FA market.

PtR

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Whatever money he loses in the short term, he could gain by entering free agency earlier for his third contract, after the league's new TV deal results in a higher cap and higher contracts.

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The Spurs won't lose Leonard, at least not in the short term. The rules regulating restricted free agency pretty much assure them of his services for at least two years after his rookie contract is up. But it's still curious how Leonard's contract situation mirrors his on court status and it will be interesting to see how he reacts to it

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I can see Leonard playing for other contender/big market-team next years.
He could accept 2years/offer next summer and then a 25 years old/unrestricted free agent Leonard could sign a max contract with other team after Pop/Tim/Manu are gone. (Love's deal is the new model for promising players)
Plus, the Spurs never get FA big names and Kawhi could be one...

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An extension guarantees the Spurs five years of Leonard but takes them out of the run for the top free agents

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The run is lost before it started...the top FA aren't willing to play here.

A guy like Marc Gasol or a Texas product like Aldridge might be willing to play here if they know they are the first post option. Playing with Parker and Leonard (and Green, to a lesser extent) makes it an attractive place to go, with Pop still coaching the team.

After paying Mills even after he got hurt, the Spurs should have Leonard's confidence. If they tell him they'll give him a five-year max next summer, he probably won't worry too much.

The only real news is that Buford pretty much confirmed that the team is still looking at next off-season as their transition year. On one hand, that probably means Tim is leaning toward hanging them up. On the other, it means the Spurs will have cap space for the first time in 12 years. We'll see what that ends up meaning for them.

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Originally Posted by Chinook

After paying Mills even after he got hurt, the Spurs should have Leonard's confidence. If they tell him they'll give him a five-year max next summer, he probably won't worry too much.

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Patty didn't sign a max contract, I don't think the Spurs keep their promise if Leonard gets serious injury like PG this season.

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Originally Posted by Dunc n Dave

A guy like Marc Gasol or a Texas product like Aldridge might be willing to play here if they know they are the first post option. Playing with Parker and Leonard (and Green, to a lesser extent) makes it an attractive place to go, with Pop still coaching the team.

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I don't know...without Leonard and Pop only coaching the team in their first year on SA, could be the worst escenario for them.

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But there’s risk in waiting, particularly with the gruesome images of Paul George’s crumpled right leg still fresh and raw.
You wait with the intention of matching an offer sheet, and maybe your budding superstar – the guy who you went 54-12 last season with him in the lineup (including 19 straight wins after he returned from a hand injury) and 8-8 without, the guy who throttled LeBron James in the finals, the guy whom coach Gregg Popovich called the future “face of the Spurs” – becomes bitter.
Maybe he doesn’t want to stay.

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by Mark Zeigler who asked Leonard's agent Elfus about the extension but he declined comment “out of respect for the Spurs and the process.” It seems like Leonard's camp/people aren't very happy.

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Originally Posted by Dunc n Dave

A guy like Marc Gasol or a Texas product like Aldridge might be willing to play here if they know they are the first post option. Playing with Parker and Leonard (and Green, to a lesser extent) makes it an attractive place to go, with Pop still coaching the team.

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I'm not sure the Spurs have a realistic shot at either. Both are currently on very good playoff teams with much younger PGs, that are still improving.

The Grizzlies would be able offer him the max and still have about $ 6 million to improve around Gasol, Conley and Randolph in the 15-16 season.


Conley is only 26 and is coming off a career year averaging 17 ppg, 6 apg, & 1.5 spg.

The Blazers have a fairly young core that have a good chance to be a top four team after next season. The Clippers could lose Jordan and the Spurs could take a step back.


Lilary-24-averaged 20.7 ppg and 5.5 assist per game
Lopez-25
Batum-25

The Blazers could have about $11 million in cap (not including Robin Lopez)

I think that Paul Milsap would be a more realistic option or even Roy Hibbert (if he decides to bail on Indy)

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Originally Posted by wildchild

Patty didn't sign a max contract, I don't think the Spurs keep their promise if Leonard gets serious injury like PG this season.

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If the Spurs make the promise, they'll keep it. The only way I could see them reneging would be if Leonard got into legal trouble.

As far as him getting butthurt and leaving, that would be fine by me. He's not a franchise player, and he shouldn't be treated like one. The Spurs can (and seem willing to) pay him significantly more than any other team in 2015. If that's not good enough for him, and can go somewhere else and be an albatross that who gets trade three times on one contract.

Leonard's not that guy, though. I'm sure if he doesn't get an extension, it will be because he and team agree to wait. The Spurs will extend him if he really wants it. But they'll expect him to take a discount in order to get it. They have all the leverage, and there's almost no upside from their end to waste it.

It's always a complex situation... I get the feeling this will be just another test of character for Kawhi... if he's to become the face of the franchise, as management would like him to, then he will have to learn to get used to a FO that makes a priority to manage the team's finances frugally. Ultimately, I think everybody knows he'll get paid, but there's obviously always some inherent risk waiting for that day.

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Originally Posted by wildchild

Patty didn't sign a max contract, I don't think the Spurs keep their promise if Leonard gets serious injury like PG this season.



I don't know...without Leonard and Pop only coaching the team in their first year on SA, could be the worst escenario for them.

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The Spurs would obviously pitch free agents next summer with the fact that they have Parker and plan on matching any offer for Leonard. Like the article said, they can't lose him next summer (he'll be a restricted free agent, so the Spurs can match and WILL match up to the max). As previously stated, this will be the first time in a decade the Spurs have MAX money available (IF Manu and Tim retire). All the talk of "big name free agents never come here" is moot, when we haven't had max money to offer to entice them here.

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Originally Posted by cd021

I'm not sure the Spurs have a realistic shot at either. Both are currently on very good playoff teams with much younger PGs, that are still improving.

The Grizzlies would be able offer him the max and still have about $ 6 million to improve around Gasol, Conley and Randolph in the 15-16 season.


Conley is only 26 and is coming off a career year averaging 17 ppg, 6 apg, & 1.5 spg.

The Blazers have a fairly young core that have a good chance to be a top four team after next season. The Clippers could lose Jordan and the Spurs could take a step back.


Lilary-24-averaged 20.7 ppg and 5.5 assist per game
Lopez-25
Batum-25

The Blazers could have about $11 million in cap (not including Robin Lopez)

I think that Paul Milsap would be a more realistic option or even Roy Hibbert (if he decides to bail on Indy)

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I agree that both guys will probably stay, but no way Gasol looks at Memphis and thinks they have a brighter future than the Spurs do. Their roster sucks, especially for a Western team.

The Blazers' roster is also pretty weak. Their young guys (the really young ones) have to take a step or two forward in order for their bench to not be horrible again. I think Aldridge will stay since the money seems to be really important to him. But he's at the point of his career where the Blazers' youth is actually a bad thing for him. Lillard will need to become a true superstar (not just an overrated player like he is now) in order for Portland to ever be even a fringe contender.

I don't think Hibbert would be a good option at all. He's just not what the team needs, and he's not very good. Millsap would be nice if the team could also bring in another mid-level FA to play the two off the bench.

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Originally Posted by cd021

I'm not sure the Spurs have a realistic shot at either. Both are currently on very good playoff teams with much younger PGs, that are still improving.

I think that Paul Milsap would be a more realistic option or even Roy Hibbert (if he decides to bail on Indy)

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I like Milsap or Hibbert as fall back options, but I still think the Spurs go big at midnight on July 1, 2015 and offer big deals to Marc or Lamarcus. Whether they go for or not, is up to them. If they reject the Spurs, they look down the list at Milsap or Hibbert. Spurs still have to try for the big name guys that make sense for our team. There's the international flair and passing game to entice Marc Gasol to sign with us. And there's the Texas connection to entice LA. Both would play big roles on our team, post Duncan. LA would probably lead the team in scoring, and have Splitter as his Robin Lopez guy to do the dirty work. Marc would anchor the defense, and destroy teams with his passing from the high post on our team.

For the love of God wait for restricted free agency. Sorry, I love Leonard, but no other team is going to offer him anything close to a max contract when he's been the 4th option his entire career. Pop has never even run a play for him. Hes even said so.

Wait a year and see what happens. No need to be proactive and do something stupid. The Spurs aren't dumb, but I hope winning hasn't made them overconfident. They need to remember what got them there. Tim Duncan playing for 10 mil a year, Parker taking 12.5 and Manu taking 7. You give Kawhi 16 mil a year and this team is done.

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Originally Posted by Chinook

He's not a franchise player.

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Yes, he is. He's the franchise player the Spurs can get.

They aren't willing to pay tax or excess, how you think the Spurs can sign franchise players like Lebron, Durant, or that type of superstars?

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Originally Posted by TheyCallMePro

For the love of God wait for restricted free agency. Sorry, I love Leonard, but no other team is going to offer him anything close to a max contract when he's been the 4th option his entire career. Pop has never even run a play for him. Hes even said so.

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I expect desperate teams like the Lakeshow to throw all the money they have at him... same for LMA and fat Gasol when the time comes...

Other unrestricted free agent big men they can pursue next summer (besides Gasol, LA, Hibbert, and Milsap):

Brook Lopez (PO: player option)
Al Jefferson (PO)
Anderson Varajao (not for the max though, I'd hope)
Tyson Chandler (might be washed up at this point)
David West (PO) (probably washed up, not worth more than MLE $$ to Spurs)
Deandre Jordan (not worth max, but someone might offer it to him)
Carlos Boozer (MLE-8 mill/yr player)
Omar Asik ($8-10mill/yr)
Samuel Dalembert (MLE-8 mill)

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Originally Posted by ElNono

I expect desperate teams like the Lakeshow to throw all the money they have at him... same for LMA and fat Gasol when the time comes...

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Agree. Also, we don't know how the new Clippers owner and their new FO will guide the franchise and how they'll manage their money but they really need a two-way player/elite SF against Durant/Westbrook.

Kevin Love?

I mean, hes lookin for someway to get here, and with max money available and I think his contract is only 1 year?

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Originally Posted by hyhy

Kevin Love?

I mean, hes lookin for someway to get here, and with max money available and I think his contract is only 1 year?

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He's supposedly gonna sign an extension with Cleveland once the trade is consumated later this month. Unless he changes his mind, he's off the market next summer.

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Originally Posted by Dunc n Dave

He's supposedly gonna sign an extension with Cleveland once the trade is consumated later this month. Unless he changes his mind, he's off the market next summer.

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That agreement is illegal so I suppose he can change his mind when a space frees up in Spurs, and especially if Spurs beat the Cavs easily.

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Originally Posted by TheyCallMePro

For the love of God wait for restricted free agency. Sorry, I love Leonard, but no other team is going to offer him anything close to a max contract when he's been the 4th option his entire career. Pop has never even run a play for him. Hes even said so.

Wait a year and see what happens. No need to be proactive and do something stupid. The Spurs aren't dumb, but I hope winning hasn't made them overconfident. They need to remember what got them there. Tim Duncan playing for 10 mil a year, Parker taking 12.5 and Manu taking 7. You give Kawhi 16 mil a year and this team is done.

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Don't be silly. All you people that are taking it literally that Pop has never run a play for Kawhi, that's just silly.

And how many times does this need repeating - Gordon Hayward and Chandler Parsons got huge contracts this off season and you think no one is going to offer Kawhi max money? The only way Kawhi will get less than the max is if he decides to take less and give the Spurs a discount. There will be other teams willing to offer him the max. He might not want to play for those teams, but I'm pretty sure someone will offer it to him.

Also, Tim Duncan an Manu got paid more when they were younger, so that's why they're taking the discounts now. They did it right by taking less money as they got older so the team could get other players around them that can help them more. Another thing would be who those players are, and if Tim/Tony/Manu think they are worth it for themselves to take the pay cut if it helps to improve the team.

This is not the Spurs decision at all, it's the players that decided to do this for the good of the team. All three of them could have told the Spurs to get stuffed and taken more money elsewhere. Don't act like the Spurs had a lot of say in the matter, they're just beneficiaries of those guys willing to do that. The opposite is someone like Kobe who still wants more money when he's older and the team can't get much depth around him because he's taking up most of the money. Most teams don't have a choice in the matter, because that player will leave and sign that contract or a similar one elsewhere. Spurs are a little lucky that those guys were willing to do that, stuff like that doesn't happen much in other places.

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Originally Posted by wildchild

Yes, he is. He's the franchise player the Spurs can get.

They aren't willing to pay tax or excess, how you think the Spurs can sign franchise players like Lebron, Durant, or that type of superstars?

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That's a odd statement, seeing as the Spurs have had franchise players throughout their history.

I want Kawhi to stay and the Spurs to build with him, but if he's going to act like Parsons, the team would be better off cutting their losses.

But this is moot, because Kawhi's not going to act that way.

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Originally Posted by Dunc n Dave

Interesting article from Pounding the Rock. Claims the only way Kawhi gets his extension this summer is if Tim & Manu both decide to play another year after this season.

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Sounds like a win-win to me.

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Originally Posted by Chinook

That's a odd statement, seeing as the Spurs have had franchise players throughout their history.

I want Kawhi to stay and the Spurs to build with him, but if he's going to act like Parsons, the team would be better off cutting their losses.

But this is moot, because Kawhi's not going to act that way.

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Exactly. It seems as though emo posters are projecting their emo-ness onto Kawhi, when in fact, he's a level headed young man. The Spurs aren't going to leave him hanging out there. I'm sure he and his agent are a part of the process and the cap discussions. I'm sure that they've explained that if he extends, there won't even be a FA like AK47 or Gasol. If he hangs out and waits for the Spurs to make their moves, they could add another really good player to the mix, and Kawhi gets his same money. The Spurs take care of their own.

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I want Kawhi to stay and the Spurs to build with him, but if he's going to act like Parsons, the team would be better off cutting their losses.

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Not sure how anyone could think this way. Your, we"ll call it "lack of confidence" in Kawhi is well documented but I'm not sure how anyone who has followed this franchise for the past few decades could entertain any scenario where the Spurs should let him walk or potentially ruin their relationship with him. Kawhi might not be a tier 1 player at the moment but with his work ethic and his steady improvement he could get there. Plus, he has the perfect attitude, temperament, mindset for what the Spurs look for. There is no downside here.

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Originally Posted by exstatic

Exactly. It seems as though emo posters are projecting their emo-ness onto Kawhi, when in fact, he's a level headed young man. The Spurs aren't going to leave him hanging out there. I'm sure he and his agent are a part of the process and the cap discussions. I'm sure that they've explained that if he extends, there won't even be a FA like AK47 or Gasol. If he hangs out and waits for the Spurs to make their moves, they could add another really good player to the mix, and Kawhi gets his same money. The Spurs take care of their own.

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This and the Chinook post are absolutely right on, imo.

As I mentioned on the ptr, this article is unhelpful, imo. The Spurs FO, Tim, Manu, and Leonard ALL have a history of making their decisions within the context of what is good for the overall team. I see zero reason to anticipate that any of that is going to change within the coming year. So, to me, they all deserve my trust to work this out in a way that will benefit the overall team the most. Setting up hypotheticals that may result in difficult situations is premature and seems to anticipate some or all participants
in the situation acting contrary to their characters and historical behaviors.

If the Spurs lay things out on the table and explain the plan to him for next offseason and he's cool with it great. If he's uncomfortable in anyway with the scenario than pay him now. He's deserved it by bringing us #5. You don't potentially jeopardize the relationship in anyway though. I'm sure Kawhi will understand what the Spurs tell him though. Unsure of who is agent is, but he plays a big role in this also and you put a lot in his agents hands under that scenario as well which is scary.

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Originally Posted by DesignatedT

If the Spurs lay things out on the table and explain the plan to him for next offseason and he's cool with it great. If he's uncomfortable in anyway with the scenario than pay him now. He's deserved it by bringing us #5. You don't potentially jeopardize the relationship in anyway though. I'm sure Kawhi will understand what the Spurs tell him though. Unsure of who is agent is, but he plays a big role in this also and you put a lot in his agents hands under that scenario as well which is scary.

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My guess is that is exactly what they have done already.

The only Kawhi reference I've seen to his contract had him very much in a "These things will take care of themselves" mode.

D/X has his agent listed as Mitch Frankel.

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Originally Posted by EVAY

This and the Chinook post are absolutely right on, imo.

As I mentioned on the ptr, this article is unhelpful, imo. The Spurs FO, Tim, Manu, and Leonard ALL have a history of making their decisions within the context of what is good for the overall team. I see zero reason to anticipate that any of that is going to change within the coming year. So, to me, they all deserve my trust to work this out in a way that will benefit the overall team the most. Setting up hypotheticals that may result in difficult situations is premature and seems to anticipate some or all participants
in the situation acting contrary to their characters and historical behaviors.

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Nothing is this article is NEW to the Spurs. I'm sure this has been discussed for months or years, as to what they CAN and cannot do regarding free agency and extensions for Kawhi, if and when Tim and Manu retire. They've gone through all these scenarios and probably game planned for them, so I'd hardly call this article "unhelpful." As if this article is going to stir up controversy or bad blood between Kawhi's camp and the Spurs?

In reality, the Spurs need to first get an answer from Tim and Manu on when they plan to retire. Then they can plan around them (Ex: give Kawhi his extension NOW if Tim & Manu both commit to play beyond this season). But they still need Plans B and C in place if they don't get the answer they thought they'd get from Tim or Manu. And I'm confident they've not only figured out those plans already, but also have a Plan D through M, as well.

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Originally Posted by DesignatedT

Not sure how anyone could think this way. Your, we"ll call it "lack of confidence" in Kawhi is well documented but I'm not sure how anyone who has followed this franchise for the past few decades could entertain any scenario where the Spurs should let him walk or potentially ruin their relationship with him. Kawhi might not be a tier 1 player at the moment but with his work ethic and his steady improvement he could get there. Plus, he has the perfect attitude, temperament, mindset for what the Spurs look for. There is no downside here.

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That all goes out the window if he acts like Parsons. Because he's not like that, this is a non-issue. But I don't see how anyone thinks that Kawhi would be a successful building block if he had Chandler's attitude and delusion.

It would be ridiculous for a player to be spiteful towards a team for not just forking over 80+M when the rules dictate that no other team could even come close to that. If the team is willing to do the equivalent of 4 year max from another team that should appease any player.

It's stupid to say "I would be so angry to play for the Spurs for 4/60M, but have no problem playing for the Timberwolves for 4/60M"

On that note, IMO, there are only 5-6 players in the league at any given time that are worth paying more than market for. The Duncan's, Lebron's, Durant's ect..

Those are the only cases where it makes sense in paying them the team's max vs what other teams max offers would be because they have leverage. They are 100% franchise players and losing them would cripple your franchise so its worth it to pay more than their market.

Everyone else (Melo, Rose, ect..) should only ever be offered the most another team could pay them and not 1 cent more (purely from a basketball perspective - obviously guys like Kobe make a team so much money that he's worth it to pay whatever to keep).

hes young.... and i wouldnt blame him for wanting the extension now, after what happen to PG.... that has to be in his mind....
i cant blame him for wanting security NOW.

But if he were to wait we could build an even stronger team and he still gets the same money just with a better team.


but im sure they would have a under the table deal like hey kawhi, regardless if you get hurt or not this season or performance,we will still give you this huge contract, just let us get a nother piece first.

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Originally Posted by DPG21920

It would be ridiculous for a player to be spiteful towards a team for not just forking over 80+M when the rules dictate that no other team could even come close to that. If the team is willing to do the equivalent of 4 year max from another team that should appease any player.

It's stupid to say "I would be so angry to play for the Spurs for 4/60M, but have no problem playing for the Timberwolves for 4/60M"

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I don't know about that. Don't forget the SJAX case, where he forced his way out to play for less in Atlanta on a 1 year deal, and after that he eventually received the payday he was looking for. Agents do a good job of talking to a player's ear, especially when their stock is up, as it was in the SJAX case. The Leonard case I feel it's different because I do think the Spurs see him as a future franchise player. But if they are not willing to pay him as a franchise guy, I'm not sure it's in his best financial interest to stay long term with a team that's known to spend frugally.

As fans of the team, you don't want to have 'bad contracts' (like RJ or his extension), but from a player's perspective, that's the kind of guaranteed deal your agent wants to hear about.

The best plans of any front office can be screwed up by a greedy agent. They always want their client to get the most money in the shortest time so they get their cut sooner without the worry of being fired or an injury damaging their client's value. They often feed them information that causes distrust or insecurity which is hard for a young player to sort out.

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Originally Posted by stephen jackson

hes young.... and i wouldnt blame him for wanting the extension now, after what happen to PG.... that has to be in his mind....
i cant blame him for wanting security NOW.

But if he were to wait we could build an even stronger team and he still gets the same money just with a better team.


but im sure they would have a under the table deal like hey kawhi, regardless if you get hurt or not this season or performance,we will still give you this huge contract, just let us get a nother piece first.

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It doesn't even have to be under the table when it's your player. I'm sure the Spurs have talked over multiple scenarios with Kawhi and his agent already regarding next summer. Yes, I believe they would pay him whatever they agree on, even if he gets injured. They signed Patty to a deal even though he's injured and will miss half of next season.

lol 3 good games in the finals and now he's a max guy

Spurs would be very stupid not to evaluate him for one more year before offering anything

Any poster that hasn't jumped on the Kawhi train yet, just keep riding whatever train you're on. The Kawhi train is max money, superstar talent, and exclusively services San Antonio.

ya know who might be an interesting rfa next season, if Timmy is gone... Tristan Thompson. Outside of Lebron, Irving, and Love they can't have much money left to match a high offer. Thompson has a Texas connection, he has a Toronto native Cojo connection. He can d and board pretty darn nice. I don't know if he can shoot or post up like Timmy, but he's ambidextorus. Splitter can score big man points off a pick and roll, Kawhi can contribute some offense, and Parker ain't dead yet. A big like Thompson could be really useful.

He's not getting max money from SA IMO. I don't think there is any chance.

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Originally Posted by DPG21920

He's not getting max money from SA IMO. I don't think there is any chance.

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Kawhi? I don't think that's even debatable. Thompson? Agree completely. He will be lucky to get $40M/4.

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Originally Posted by Chinook

That's a odd statement, seeing as the Spurs have had franchise players throughout their history.

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Our franchise players were Tim, DRob and Gervin (can add Tony/Manu) and the Spurs drafted all these guys but Ice.

They never signed a superstar FA and if they don't want to have high payroll and pay luxury tax, maybe they never will.

That's why I think Leonard is the franchise-type player the Spurs can get.

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Originally Posted by wildchild

Our franchise players were Tim, DRob and Gervin (can add Tony/Manu) and the Spurs drafted all these guys but Ice.

They never signed a superstar FA and if they don't want to have high payroll and pay luxury tax, maybe they never will.

That's why I think Leonard is the franchise-type player the Spurs can get.

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I think you're misunderstanding me. Leonard isn't a franchise player. It doesn't matter who the Spurs can get. They won't win with Leonard as their only good player. If he's more interested in getting an extension over getting an elite teammate, then it's not going to work.

I think Leonard and his mom know that it's in his best interest to stay with the Spurs. His mom mentioned about how Duncan mentors him and in no one's wildest dream could he ever predict he'd be a FMVP in his 3rd year. He knows this organization is the best, coach is the best and it's best for his career to stay right where he is. They took care of Patty even with his injury - no reason why they won't with him.

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Originally Posted by Chinook

Kawhi? I don't think that's even debatable. Thompson? Agree completely. He will be lucky to get $40M/4.

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Yes Kawhi. He will not get the max the Spurs can offer.

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Originally Posted by DPG21920

Yes Kawhi. He will not get the max the Spurs can offer.

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How about other teams? You think he will get max offers from other teams? I think he will, so going by that, if he takes less than the max from the Spurs, then I think that would be because he agreed to do it.

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Originally Posted by Ice009

How about other teams? You think he will get max offers from other teams? I think he will, so going by that, if he takes less than the max from the Spurs, then I think that would be because he agreed to do it.

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Absolutely he will get a max offer from another team. Spurs should and will match that. They won't pay him any more than another team can offer unless it's a 5th year at a cheaper rate (which they can't do if they extend with the 5th year at this point in time).

My guess is both parties know this and he will extend for another teams max for 4 years or wait and get 5 years when it doesn't have to be the Spurs max.

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Originally Posted by Chinook

I think you're misunderstanding me. Leonard isn't a franchise player. It doesn't matter who the Spurs can get. They won't win with Leonard as their only good player. If he's more interested in getting an extension over getting an elite teammate, then it's not going to work.

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I think the Spurs can get really matters.
They can't have that franchise player you said, a superstar who can make a team by himself and can win a title alone, so...who will be their franchise player, the next face of the franchise?

Who will be the player that the fans could connect with him, the player that the fans would love as the perfect Spur?
It's about business, too. Because all teams need a guy to promote as their franchise player...I think Leonard can be that guy.

That's why I rather lock him up long-term this offseason than take the risk to irrite his camp or lose him next years.
But I understand why you've a different perspective and respect that.

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They won't win with Leonard as their only good player

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Tony can play at high level two more years, Tiago's one of the best defender in the league (his FIBA offensive game couldn't translate to NBA but he can add some offense)
And 16M in cap space...it doesn't sound like he'll be the only good player on the team. More than 18M means a star FA (and again IMO they want big markets to play, not SA).

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Originally Posted by DPG21920

Yes Kawhi. He will not get the max the Spurs can offer.

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Why not? It makes more sense to give him a five-year deal than a four-year one. The Spurs paying an extra $8 Million to do that would be very smart.

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Originally Posted by ElNono

The Leonard case I feel it's different because I do think the Spurs see him as a future franchise player. But if they are not willing to pay him as a franchise guy, I'm not sure it's in his best financial interest to stay long term with a team that's known to spend frugally.

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After Duncan Era, it could be time to change this frugal economy in orden to get competitive quickly again?.

They've a strong financial group, the owners try to explore other leagues and invest in other teams...they really can't spend more money?
Don't get me wrong, I appreciate how they've managed to not exceed the luxury tax and I don't expect a big jump #23 at the cap list to #5 but maybe the team will need a bit more money to have a shot again. I mean at least for two/three years.

I know, it's not my money and I'm blasphemer.

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Originally Posted by wildchild

After Duncan Era, it could be time to change this frugal economy in orden to get competitive quickly again?.

They've a strong financial group, the owners try to explore other leagues and invest in other teams...they really can't spend more money?
Don't get me wrong, I appreciate how they've managed to not exceed the luxury tax and I don't expect a big jump #23 at the cap list to #5 but maybe the team will need a bit more money to have a shot again. I mean at least for two/three years.

I know, it's not my money and I'm blasphemer.

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Unfortunately, the days of just tipping your feet into luxury tax waters without much consequence are no longer here. The luxury tax has become extremely punitive since the last CBA. Maybe you do it one year, but I can't see it happening longer than that. Obviously, the Spurs might just be trying to push everything down the road when the new TV contract should expand the cap space considerably, and provide some help to solve all of this. There will also be negotiations for a new CBA at some point too, perhaps relaxing the luxury tax rules.

In the meantime, I expect the Spurs to try to juggle with this situation and avoid going over the tax line. We're just going to have to hope for the best.

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Originally Posted by Chinook

I agree that both guys will probably stay, but no way Gasol looks at Memphis and thinks they have a brighter future than the Spurs do. Their roster sucks, especially for a Western team.


The Blazers' roster is also pretty weak. Their young guys (the really young ones) have to take a step or two forward in order for their bench to not be horrible again. I think Aldridge will stay since the money seems to be really important to him. But he's at the point of his career where the Blazers' youth is actually a bad thing for him. Lillard will need to become a true superstar (not just an overrated player like he is now) in order for Portland to ever be even a fringe contender.

I don't think Hibbert would be a good option at all. He's just not what the team needs, and he's not very good. Millsap would be nice if the team could also bring in another mid-level FA to play the two off the bench.

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I meant Portland could be a top 4 team in the west, probably 6th in the league after next season, assuming everything works to their advantage. Duncan and Manu retiring and the Clippers potentially losing Jordan.

Even looking further down the road with Durants free agency and the reports that he could be interested in playing for the Wizards.

In the immediate future the Spurs should be fine with Parker, Green (assuming he resigns, Splitter, and Leonard along with Ginobili potentially returning.

I don't think that Gasol and Aldridge (money aside) would see the Spurs being any better a option. Parker is going on 32 with high mileage, he would be the biggest draw (besides maybe Pop).


I get the problems with Hibbert playing in San Antonio. Paring him with Splitter means that there is no floor spacing between them and Hibberts an average post player and a mediocre rebounder.

He intrigues me though and Pop may be able to better utilize him.

If he did decide to leave Indy, I could see the Knicks, or Hawks making a play for him.

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Originally Posted by Chinook

Why not? It makes more sense to give him a five-year deal than a four-year one. The Spurs paying an extra $8 Million to do that would be very smart.

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I must be missing something; I thought Spurs max extension was 5/80+

I understand that some think that big free agents don't want to play with the Spurs, but I'm not sure. After Duncan/Ginobili retires, the Spurs might have the cap space to really go after some top players in free agency or trade. I think that Kawhi Leonard has to be the priority, though.

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Originally Posted by DPG21920

I must be missing something; I thought Spurs max extension was 5/80+

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Yes, as opposed to $68M/4.

Essentially, any other team can offer him a four-year deal at 4.27 times the max. The Spurs can offer five years at 5.75 times the max. The only difference between those contracts really is .3 times the max (as that's the difference between 4.5-percent raises and 7.5-percent raises four five years. .3 times the max is about $4.5 Million.

I added in the extra if you weren't assuming any fifth-year raise.

I heard the cap will be going up. Won't the spurs be paying more if they don't sign him this year? Maybe they don't mind. Maybe Kawhi doesn't mind for the same reason?

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Originally Posted by itzsoweezee

I heard the cap will be going up. Won't the spurs be paying more if they don't sign him this year? Maybe they don't mind. Maybe Kawhi doesn't mind for the same reason?

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No. He makes what he makes this season, and whether it's an extension or a new contract, his new deal will be based on NEXT year's cap, since that's when it starts.