-
Re: PTR: "Leonard's Extension Tied to Retirement of manu & Tim"
Quote:
I want Kawhi to stay and the Spurs to build with him, but if he's going to act like Parsons, the team would be better off cutting their losses.
Not sure how anyone could think this way. Your, we"ll call it "lack of confidence" in Kawhi is well documented but I'm not sure how anyone who has followed this franchise for the past few decades could entertain any scenario where the Spurs should let him walk or potentially ruin their relationship with him. Kawhi might not be a tier 1 player at the moment but with his work ethic and his steady improvement he could get there. Plus, he has the perfect attitude, temperament, mindset for what the Spurs look for. There is no downside here.
-
Re: PTR: "Leonard's Extension Tied to Retirement of manu & Tim"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
exstatic
Exactly. It seems as though emo posters are projecting their emo-ness onto Kawhi, when in fact, he's a level headed young man. The Spurs aren't going to leave him hanging out there. I'm sure he and his agent are a part of the process and the cap discussions. I'm sure that they've explained that if he extends, there won't even be a FA like AK47 or Gasol. If he hangs out and waits for the Spurs to make their moves, they could add another really good player to the mix, and Kawhi gets his same money. The Spurs take care of their own.
This and the Chinook post are absolutely right on, imo.
As I mentioned on the ptr, this article is unhelpful, imo. The Spurs FO, Tim, Manu, and Leonard ALL have a history of making their decisions within the context of what is good for the overall team. I see zero reason to anticipate that any of that is going to change within the coming year. So, to me, they all deserve my trust to work this out in a way that will benefit the overall team the most. Setting up hypotheticals that may result in difficult situations is premature and seems to anticipate some or all participants
in the situation acting contrary to their characters and historical behaviors.
-
Re: PTR: "Leonard's Extension Tied to Retirement of manu & Tim"
If the Spurs lay things out on the table and explain the plan to him for next offseason and he's cool with it great. If he's uncomfortable in anyway with the scenario than pay him now. He's deserved it by bringing us #5. You don't potentially jeopardize the relationship in anyway though. I'm sure Kawhi will understand what the Spurs tell him though. Unsure of who is agent is, but he plays a big role in this also and you put a lot in his agents hands under that scenario as well which is scary.
-
Re: PTR: "Leonard's Extension Tied to Retirement of manu & Tim"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DesignatedT
If the Spurs lay things out on the table and explain the plan to him for next offseason and he's cool with it great. If he's uncomfortable in anyway with the scenario than pay him now. He's deserved it by bringing us #5. You don't potentially jeopardize the relationship in anyway though. I'm sure Kawhi will understand what the Spurs tell him though. Unsure of who is agent is, but he plays a big role in this also and you put a lot in his agents hands under that scenario as well which is scary.
My guess is that is exactly what they have done already.
The only Kawhi reference I've seen to his contract had him very much in a "These things will take care of themselves" mode.
D/X has his agent listed as Mitch Frankel.
-
Re: PTR: "Leonard's Extension Tied to Retirement of manu & Tim"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
EVAY
This and the Chinook post are absolutely right on, imo.
As I mentioned on the ptr, this article is unhelpful, imo. The Spurs FO, Tim, Manu, and Leonard ALL have a history of making their decisions within the context of what is good for the overall team. I see zero reason to anticipate that any of that is going to change within the coming year. So, to me, they all deserve my trust to work this out in a way that will benefit the overall team the most. Setting up hypotheticals that may result in difficult situations is premature and seems to anticipate some or all participants
in the situation acting contrary to their characters and historical behaviors.
Nothing is this article is NEW to the Spurs. I'm sure this has been discussed for months or years, as to what they CAN and cannot do regarding free agency and extensions for Kawhi, if and when Tim and Manu retire. They've gone through all these scenarios and probably game planned for them, so I'd hardly call this article "unhelpful." As if this article is going to stir up controversy or bad blood between Kawhi's camp and the Spurs?
In reality, the Spurs need to first get an answer from Tim and Manu on when they plan to retire. Then they can plan around them (Ex: give Kawhi his extension NOW if Tim & Manu both commit to play beyond this season). But they still need Plans B and C in place if they don't get the answer they thought they'd get from Tim or Manu. And I'm confident they've not only figured out those plans already, but also have a Plan D through M, as well.
-
Re: PTR: "Leonard's Extension Tied to Retirement of manu & Tim"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DesignatedT
Not sure how anyone could think this way. Your, we"ll call it "lack of confidence" in Kawhi is well documented but I'm not sure how anyone who has followed this franchise for the past few decades could entertain any scenario where the Spurs should let him walk or potentially ruin their relationship with him. Kawhi might not be a tier 1 player at the moment but with his work ethic and his steady improvement he could get there. Plus, he has the perfect attitude, temperament, mindset for what the Spurs look for. There is no downside here.
That all goes out the window if he acts like Parsons. Because he's not like that, this is a non-issue. But I don't see how anyone thinks that Kawhi would be a successful building block if he had Chandler's attitude and delusion.
-
Re: PTR: "Leonard's Extension Tied to Retirement of manu & Tim"
It would be ridiculous for a player to be spiteful towards a team for not just forking over 80+M when the rules dictate that no other team could even come close to that. If the team is willing to do the equivalent of 4 year max from another team that should appease any player.
It's stupid to say "I would be so angry to play for the Spurs for 4/60M, but have no problem playing for the Timberwolves for 4/60M"
-
Re: PTR: "Leonard's Extension Tied to Retirement of manu & Tim"
On that note, IMO, there are only 5-6 players in the league at any given time that are worth paying more than market for. The Duncan's, Lebron's, Durant's ect..
Those are the only cases where it makes sense in paying them the team's max vs what other teams max offers would be because they have leverage. They are 100% franchise players and losing them would cripple your franchise so its worth it to pay more than their market.
Everyone else (Melo, Rose, ect..) should only ever be offered the most another team could pay them and not 1 cent more (purely from a basketball perspective - obviously guys like Kobe make a team so much money that he's worth it to pay whatever to keep).
-
Re: PTR: "Leonard's Extension Tied to Retirement of manu & Tim"
hes young.... and i wouldnt blame him for wanting the extension now, after what happen to PG.... that has to be in his mind....
i cant blame him for wanting security NOW.
But if he were to wait we could build an even stronger team and he still gets the same money just with a better team.
but im sure they would have a under the table deal like hey kawhi, regardless if you get hurt or not this season or performance,we will still give you this huge contract, just let us get a nother piece first.
-
Re: PTR: "Leonard's Extension Tied to Retirement of manu & Tim"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DPG21920
It would be ridiculous for a player to be spiteful towards a team for not just forking over 80+M when the rules dictate that no other team could even come close to that. If the team is willing to do the equivalent of 4 year max from another team that should appease any player.
It's stupid to say "I would be so angry to play for the Spurs for 4/60M, but have no problem playing for the Timberwolves for 4/60M"
I don't know about that. Don't forget the SJAX case, where he forced his way out to play for less in Atlanta on a 1 year deal, and after that he eventually received the payday he was looking for. Agents do a good job of talking to a player's ear, especially when their stock is up, as it was in the SJAX case. The Leonard case I feel it's different because I do think the Spurs see him as a future franchise player. But if they are not willing to pay him as a franchise guy, I'm not sure it's in his best financial interest to stay long term with a team that's known to spend frugally.
As fans of the team, you don't want to have 'bad contracts' (like RJ or his extension), but from a player's perspective, that's the kind of guaranteed deal your agent wants to hear about.
-
Re: PTR: "Leonard's Extension Tied to Retirement of manu & Tim"
The best plans of any front office can be screwed up by a greedy agent. They always want their client to get the most money in the shortest time so they get their cut sooner without the worry of being fired or an injury damaging their client's value. They often feed them information that causes distrust or insecurity which is hard for a young player to sort out.
-
Re: PTR: "Leonard's Extension Tied to Retirement of manu & Tim"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
stephen jackson
hes young.... and i wouldnt blame him for wanting the extension now, after what happen to PG.... that has to be in his mind....
i cant blame him for wanting security NOW.
But if he were to wait we could build an even stronger team and he still gets the same money just with a better team.
but im sure they would have a under the table deal like hey kawhi, regardless if you get hurt or not this season or performance,we will still give you this huge contract, just let us get a nother piece first.
It doesn't even have to be under the table when it's your player. I'm sure the Spurs have talked over multiple scenarios with Kawhi and his agent already regarding next summer. Yes, I believe they would pay him whatever they agree on, even if he gets injured. They signed Patty to a deal even though he's injured and will miss half of next season.
-
Re: PTR: "Leonard's Extension Tied to Retirement of manu & Tim"
lol 3 good games in the finals and now he's a max guy
Spurs would be very stupid not to evaluate him for one more year before offering anything
-
Re: PTR: "Leonard's Extension Tied to Retirement of manu & Tim"
Any poster that hasn't jumped on the Kawhi train yet, just keep riding whatever train you're on. The Kawhi train is max money, superstar talent, and exclusively services San Antonio.
ya know who might be an interesting rfa next season, if Timmy is gone... Tristan Thompson. Outside of Lebron, Irving, and Love they can't have much money left to match a high offer. Thompson has a Texas connection, he has a Toronto native Cojo connection. He can d and board pretty darn nice. I don't know if he can shoot or post up like Timmy, but he's ambidextorus. Splitter can score big man points off a pick and roll, Kawhi can contribute some offense, and Parker ain't dead yet. A big like Thompson could be really useful.
-
Re: PTR: "Leonard's Extension Tied to Retirement of manu & Tim"
He's not getting max money from SA IMO. I don't think there is any chance.
-
Re: PTR: "Leonard's Extension Tied to Retirement of manu & Tim"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DPG21920
He's not getting max money from SA IMO. I don't think there is any chance.
Kawhi? I don't think that's even debatable. Thompson? Agree completely. He will be lucky to get $40M/4.
-
Re: PTR: "Leonard's Extension Tied to Retirement of manu & Tim"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Chinook
That's a odd statement, seeing as the Spurs have had franchise players throughout their history.
Our franchise players were Tim, DRob and Gervin (can add Tony/Manu) and the Spurs drafted all these guys but Ice.
They never signed a superstar FA and if they don't want to have high payroll and pay luxury tax, maybe they never will.
That's why I think Leonard is the franchise-type player the Spurs can get.
-
Re: PTR: "Leonard's Extension Tied to Retirement of manu & Tim"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
wildchild
Our franchise players were Tim, DRob and Gervin (can add Tony/Manu) and the Spurs drafted all these guys but Ice.
They never signed a superstar FA and if they don't want to have high payroll and pay luxury tax, maybe they never will.
That's why I think Leonard is the franchise-type player the Spurs can get.
I think you're misunderstanding me. Leonard isn't a franchise player. It doesn't matter who the Spurs can get. They won't win with Leonard as their only good player. If he's more interested in getting an extension over getting an elite teammate, then it's not going to work.
-
Re: PTR: "Leonard's Extension Tied to Retirement of manu & Tim"
I think Leonard and his mom know that it's in his best interest to stay with the Spurs. His mom mentioned about how Duncan mentors him and in no one's wildest dream could he ever predict he'd be a FMVP in his 3rd year. He knows this organization is the best, coach is the best and it's best for his career to stay right where he is. They took care of Patty even with his injury - no reason why they won't with him.
-
Re: PTR: "Leonard's Extension Tied to Retirement of manu & Tim"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Chinook
Kawhi? I don't think that's even debatable. Thompson? Agree completely. He will be lucky to get $40M/4.
Yes Kawhi. He will not get the max the Spurs can offer.
-
Re: PTR: "Leonard's Extension Tied to Retirement of manu & Tim"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DPG21920
Yes Kawhi. He will not get the max the Spurs can offer.
How about other teams? You think he will get max offers from other teams? I think he will, so going by that, if he takes less than the max from the Spurs, then I think that would be because he agreed to do it.
-
Re: PTR: "Leonard's Extension Tied to Retirement of manu & Tim"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ice009
How about other teams? You think he will get max offers from other teams? I think he will, so going by that, if he takes less than the max from the Spurs, then I think that would be because he agreed to do it.
Absolutely he will get a max offer from another team. Spurs should and will match that. They won't pay him any more than another team can offer unless it's a 5th year at a cheaper rate (which they can't do if they extend with the 5th year at this point in time).
My guess is both parties know this and he will extend for another teams max for 4 years or wait and get 5 years when it doesn't have to be the Spurs max.
-
Re: PTR: "Leonard's Extension Tied to Retirement of manu & Tim"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Chinook
I think you're misunderstanding me. Leonard isn't a franchise player. It doesn't matter who the Spurs can get. They won't win with Leonard as their only good player. If he's more interested in getting an extension over getting an elite teammate, then it's not going to work.
I think the Spurs can get really matters.
They can't have that franchise player you said, a superstar who can make a team by himself and can win a title alone, so...who will be their franchise player, the next face of the franchise?
Who will be the player that the fans could connect with him, the player that the fans would love as the perfect Spur?
It's about business, too. Because all teams need a guy to promote as their franchise player...I think Leonard can be that guy.
That's why I rather lock him up long-term this offseason than take the risk to irrite his camp or lose him next years.
But I understand why you've a different perspective and respect that.
Quote:
They won't win with Leonard as their only good player
Tony can play at high level two more years, Tiago's one of the best defender in the league (his FIBA offensive game couldn't translate to NBA but he can add some offense)
And 16M in cap space...it doesn't sound like he'll be the only good player on the team. More than 18M means a star FA (and again IMO they want big markets to play, not SA).
-
Re: PTR: "Leonard's Extension Tied to Retirement of manu & Tim"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DPG21920
Yes Kawhi. He will not get the max the Spurs can offer.
Why not? It makes more sense to give him a five-year deal than a four-year one. The Spurs paying an extra $8 Million to do that would be very smart.
-
Re: PTR: "Leonard's Extension Tied to Retirement of manu & Tim"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
ElNono
The Leonard case I feel it's different because I do think the Spurs see him as a future franchise player. But if they are not willing to pay him as a franchise guy, I'm not sure it's in his best financial interest to stay long term with a team that's known to spend frugally.
After Duncan Era, it could be time to change this frugal economy in orden to get competitive quickly again?.
They've a strong financial group, the owners try to explore other leagues and invest in other teams...they really can't spend more money?
Don't get me wrong, I appreciate how they've managed to not exceed the luxury tax and I don't expect a big jump #23 at the cap list to #5 but maybe the team will need a bit more money to have a shot again. I mean at least for two/three years.
I know, it's not my money and I'm blasphemer.
