Spurs rated top frontcourt by ESPN insider

http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/story...est-frontcourt

1. San Antonio Spurs (Tim Duncan, Tiago Splitter, Kawhi Leonard)

It's no secret that the defending champs derive a lot of their on-court (and, indeed, organizational) strength from Duncan, as the one constant of nearly two decades of unparalleled success. He is the axis upon which the Spurs' universe turns, the living embodiment of what the expectations are for each player in terms of work ethic, sacrifice and dedication. His acceptance of taking a smaller role on offense did two things for him: It prolonged his career by relieving him of the burden of carrying the offense, while allowing him to continue to focus on being an elite defensive anchor.

In Splitter, the Spurs have another tremendous defensive big man as well as an active pick-and-roll participant and finisher. He's an underrated passer, both on the catch out of pick-and-rolls and from the low and high posts. As a 7-footer, he affords the Spurs the flexibility to play big by pairing him with Duncan, or to interchange them alongside smaller, more skilled players like Boris Diaw and Leonard, the third frontcourt starter and NBA Finals MVP. Leonard's defensive excellence is rooted in the combination of his physical gifts (optimal height, freakish length, agility and strength) and dogged discipline in execution. His high-level rebounding on the defensive end allow the Spurs to play him as a small-ball 4, and his offensive game has developed steadily every season. He might not be the sort of star you can build your offense around, but he's the perfect complement to a championship frontcourt.

The combination of elite size, defense, rebounding and offensive versatility make the Spurs' frontcourt the cream of the crop.

2. Cleveland Cavaliers (LeBron James, Kevin Love, Anderson Varejao)

Look out, world, the Cavs are coming. Thanks to a dream offseason, Cleveland managed to push its way to almost the top of this list. Adding James obviously plays a major part in that, but Love will influence and impact both how the Cavs can play and how teams can defend them. His shooting reputation ("gravity") forces defenders to behave more cautiously and stay closer to him, which in turn creates all sorts of spacing and causeways to the basket that allow James (and others, like Kyrie Irving and Dion Waiters) to attack off the dribble. Of course, Love isn't just a stationary threat: You can throw it to him on the block, where he does an excellent job of using his wide base to bump defenders off and create space to release his shot. He's also adept at facing up and putting the ball on the deck for a few beats against overzealous closeouts. Finally, Love's passing (not just his outlet "touchdown" throws, but also from the pinch post and the low block) acts as an additional facilitator on offense.

As brilliant as James and Love are, Varejao plays perhaps the most important role as a high-level defender, both individually and in the help department. His ability to offer constant activity on either end while not compromising principles puts him in rare company, especially at the center position. Offensively, he maintains spacing and makes cuts at appropriate times; defensively, he doesn't over-rotate when helping and recovering. He helps subsidize the defensive shortcomings of teammates and gives the Cavs' frontcourt a chance to be special.

3. Oklahoma City Thunder (Kevin Durant, Serge Ibaka, Kendrick Perkins)
4-5 was Mavs and Grizz

Varajao is great, but he'll probably play 40-50 games.

Perkins is trash, and should be considered an empty position. Not even Durant is good enough to elevate this front court into the top 3. I call bullshit on this one.

Blazers can make a case top 3-5 with Lopez coming back.

Defensively, Green-Leonard-Spitter-Duncan is horrifying for any match up. And considering the fact Spurs don't need great offensive talents due to their system, I'd have to agree with this one.Damn.. this team is fucking awesome.

The Spurs are loaded on C/PF/SF tbh. Not only do they have elite atheletes in Kwahi & Green, they also have the perfect defensive anchor in Duncan. Diaw and Splitter are the perfect backups with off the charts IQ.

We haven't had this elite level of frontcourt since 1999 tbh. 2003 was good and all, but Tim did all the heavy lifting back then.

The title defense will still rest on Tony & Manu tbh. If Tony can up his play from last season and with the improvement from Kwahi, i like our chances.

I'd put the Grizz at #2, that team basically is the front court.

Durant, Ibaka, and Adams are definitely #2. I'd take that trio over the Cavs frontcourt, anyday.

An under-rated frontcourt next season would be the Hawks' Carroll, Millsap & Horford. Its somewhat undersized, but its a great rotation of 2 2-way players and a very useful and hardworking defender at 3.

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Originally Posted by itzsoweezee

Durant, Ibaka, and Adams are definitely #2. I'd take that trio over the Cavs frontcourt, anyday.

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I wouldn't. Adams ain't all that, and in James and Love, the Cavs have two All NBAers to just Durant for OKC.

Pelicans would have us beat. Tim had issues with Portland too. Never seen him chat on as bad as Alridge :(

Why aren't the bulls in front "no pun intended" of :lol kc? :lol espn

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Originally Posted by aal04

Pelicans would have us beat. Tim had issues with Portland too. Never seen him chat on as bad as Alridge :(

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Tim doesn't defend Aldridge, Tiago does.

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Originally Posted by exstatic

I wouldn't. Adams ain't all that, and in James and Love, the Cavs have two All NBAers to just Durant for OKC.

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Ibaka and Adams are both better two-way players than Love and Varajao. Durant and James is basically a wash.

Honestly, Cleveland's frontcourt is better than ours.

LeBron >>> Kawhi
Love >> Duncan
Varejao < Splitter
Thompson << Diaw

I'd probably put Chicago over Memphis. Noah/Gibson/Pau/Mirotic is a deadly big man rotation. They're weak at SF, but it's not like Memphis is loaded at that position either.

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Originally Posted by SpursFan86

Love >> Duncan

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Not sure I agree on this point. Love's a good scorer and rebounder but Tim still has a significant edge in defensive skill and presence.

Spurs easily have the best defensive front court in the league. I don't think they're the best offensively, but the defense is so good that it doesn't matter.

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Originally Posted by SpursFan86

Honestly, Cleveland's frontcourt is better than ours.

LeBron >>> Kawhi
Love >> Duncan
Varejao < Splitter
Thompson << Diaw

I'd probably put Chicago over Memphis. Noah/Gibson/Pau/Mirotic is a deadly big man rotation. They're weak at SF, but it's not like Memphis is loaded at that position either.

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:lmao

The jinx

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Originally Posted by exstatic

Varajao is great, but he'll probably play 40-50 games.

Perkins is trash, and should be considered an empty position. Not even Durant is good enough to elevate this front court into the top 3. I call bullshit on this one.

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Spurs :tu

FTT.

:lol perkins

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Originally Posted by itzsoweezee

Ibaka and Adams are both better two-way players than Love and Varajao. Durant and James is basically a wash.

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Adams is a turnstile on D, and the reason we were up very comfortably 2-0. Ibaka has a jumper, which can be on or off, and nothing else. Neither can legitimately be called a 2 way player.

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Originally Posted by Juggity

Not sure I agree on this point. Love's a good scorer and rebounder but Tim still has a significant edge in defensive skill and presence.

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Saying Love is a "good scorer" is completely selling him short

Love - 26 ppg on 59 TS%, 12.5 rpg
Duncan - 15 ppg on 53.5 TS%, 9.7 rpg

Love is several tiers above Tim offensively at this point in their careers. Tim, while still a great defender, isn't some top 3 defender in the league like he used to be back in the day. Even if you think Duncan is better than Love while on the court (which is still a huge stretch IMO), you have to take into account that Love can give you 36+ mpg while Tim has to play noticeably less minutes if you want to preserve him for the playoffs.

I love Duncan as much as the next Spurs fan, but let's take off our homer goggles here. Love is clearly better than Duncan at this point.

LeBron is multiple tiers above Kawhi. Love is at least a tier or two above Duncan. I know Splitter > Varejao and Diaw is way better than Tristan Thompson, but I'm having a hard time seeing how we have a better frontcourt. I agree we have the best defensive frontcourt, but LeBron/Love duo is just absolutely insane on offense. I guess the argument is there if you REALLY value defense, but in that case you better have Chicago in the top 3 as well.

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Originally Posted by SpursFan86

Saying Love is a "good scorer" is completely selling him short

Love - 26 ppg on 59 TS%, 12.5 rpg
Duncan - 15 ppg on 53.5 TS%, 9.7 rpg

Love is several tiers above Tim offensively at this point in their careers. Tim, while still a great defender, isn't some top 3 defender in the league like he used to be back in the day. Even if you think Duncan is better than Love while on the court (which is still a huge stretch IMO), you have to take into account that Love can give you 36+ mpg while Tim has to play noticeably less minutes if you want to preserve him for the playoffs.

I love Duncan as much as the next Spurs fan, but let's take off our homer goggles here. Love is clearly better than Duncan at this point.

LeBron is multiple tiers above Kawhi. Love is at least a tier or two above Duncan. I know Splitter > Varejao and Diaw is way better than Tristan Thompson, but I'm having a hard time seeing how we have a better frontcourt. I agree we have the best defensive frontcourt, but LeBron/Love duo is just absolutely insane on offense. I guess the argument is there if you REALLY value defense, but in that case you better have Chicago in the top 3 as well.

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how many minutes/games can you count on from Varejao?

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Originally Posted by SpursFan86

Saying Love is a "good scorer" is completely selling him short

Love - 26 ppg on 59 TS%, 12.5 rpg
Duncan - 15 ppg on 53.5 TS%, 9.7 rpg

Love is several tiers above Tim offensively at this point in their careers. Tim, while still a great defender, isn't some top 3 defender in the league like he used to be back in the day. Even if you think Duncan is better than Love while on the court (which is still a huge stretch IMO), you have to take into account that Love can give you 36+ mpg while Tim has to play noticeably less minutes if you want to preserve him for the playoffs.

I love Duncan as much as the next Spurs fan, but let's take off our homer goggles here. Love is clearly better than Duncan at this point.

LeBron is multiple tiers above Kawhi. Love is at least a tier or two above Duncan. I know Splitter > Varejao and Diaw is way better than Tristan Thompson, but I'm having a hard time seeing how we have a better frontcourt. I agree we have the best defensive frontcourt, but LeBron/Love duo is just absolutely insane on offense. I guess the argument is there if you REALLY value defense, but in that case you better have Chicago in the top 3 as well.

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Sorry, but defense counts. He is not better.

Defensive counts a lot. It's not just an attribute like passing or three-point shooting like 2K makes it out to be. It's half the damned game. The Spurs having the best defensive front court is a big deal, since it's very likely that they would outperform the Cavs' players in a series.

Diaw is a big part of it as well. He is very good defensively.

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Originally Posted by N0 LyF3 ScRuB

Sorry, but defense counts. He is not better.

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Not when you're a white star, it doesn't. Then you get a free pass, like Nowitzki always has.

Exactly. There are a lot of players in the NBA who can score. Even crappy teams have to score points. Until you produce in the playoffs when it matters it's kind of like looking good in a scrimmage.

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Originally Posted by exstatic

Adams is a turnstile on D, and the reason we were up very comfortably 2-0. Ibaka has a jumper, which can be on or off, and nothing else. Neither can legitimately be called a 2 way player.

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This is a comparison. Adams and Ibaka are both better two-way players than Love and Varajao. I expect Adams to be much improved considering he was only a rookie last year.

Love vs. Duncan

Love has impressive offensive skills and very limited defensively
Love has been a bit of a prima donald (yes, that just happened!) and has never been in the playoffs. His attitude has been less than stellar and a bit of a distraction to his team. Love needs others to make him better, and he's got them now.
Love wins the one on one game, pretty sure.

Duncan has 5 rings, numerous all-time records, dominates through his presence, will, IQ and just logged a ton of minutes on yet another championship run
Duncan plays to win and he has succeeded in that in ways that no one else has. Duncan makes others better.
Duncan wins the playoff series, definitely. He has beaten Malone, Shaq, Nowitzki, Aldridge, D-Ho and many others. Love will be another added to the list if Cleveland gels and faces the Spurs in the Finals.

The Cavs are scary on paper, no doubt. They have a LOT of work to do, though.

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Originally Posted by SpursFan86

Saying Love is a "good scorer" is completely selling him short

Love - 26 ppg on 59 TS%, 12.5 rpg
Duncan - 15 ppg on 53.5 TS%, 9.7 rpg

Love is several tiers above Tim offensively at this point in their careers. Tim, while still a great defender, isn't some top 3 defender in the league like he used to be back in the day. Even if you think Duncan is better than Love while on the court (which is still a huge stretch IMO), you have to take into account that Love can give you 36+ mpg while Tim has to play noticeably less minutes if you want to preserve him for the playoffs.

I love Duncan as much as the next Spurs fan, but let's take off our homer goggles here. Love is clearly better than Duncan at this point.

LeBron is multiple tiers above Kawhi. Love is at least a tier or two above Duncan. I know Splitter > Varejao and Diaw is way better than Tristan Thompson, but I'm having a hard time seeing how we have a better frontcourt. I agree we have the best defensive frontcourt, but LeBron/Love duo is just absolutely insane on offense. I guess the argument is there if you REALLY value defense, but in that case you better have Chicago in the top 3 as well.

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Lebron was clearly outplayed in the NBA Finals by Kawhi, and Lebron has no injury excuses except a few minutes in one game when he cramped up. Furthermore Kawhi is 22 and on the way up. Lebron is 29 and on the way down.

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Originally Posted by spurraider21

how many minutes/games can you count on from Varejao?

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Varejao played 1800 minutes last season. Splitter played 1271. I get your point though...Varejao hasn't exactly been reliable the past 3-4 years. I was mainly talking about Love vs. Duncan. Love's ability to play heavy minutes for an entire season gives him a noticeable advantage over Duncan. Who would you rather have: a great player who gives you 36 mpg, or a very slightly better player (which again, I feel is a stretch when it comes to Love/Duncan) who only gives you 30 mpg?

I honestly just think saying Duncan > Love is a bit ridiculous at this point. The only people who would say this must be the guys who: a) think Love is some horrible defender who is such a liability on D that he's not a top 10 player (not true), or b) think Duncan is still a top 10 player in the league based off how he played last season + playoffs, which again, isn't true.

For the record, I would definitely pick us over the Cavs in the playoffs. Our experience + depth + coaching is what gives us the edge though IMO...not our starting frontcourt vs. theirs.

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Originally Posted by aal04

Pelicans would have us beat. Tim had issues with Portland too. Never seen him chat on as bad as Alridge :(

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Not sure what game you were watching, as Splitter was the one shutting down LA, fresh of a skullfucking of Dwight Howard.

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Originally Posted by ginobilized

Love vs. Duncan

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You sort of touched on it. Duncan won't defend Love. Verajao is not going to tire him out on defense. Splitter can stay with Love all day long. I'm perfectly okay with Kevin Love taking 20 shots with Splitter in his jock. The Cavs might be a really good team, but the Spurs give them more matchup problems in the front court than any team in the league. A lineup with Lebron and Wiggins would have been a far better matchup for them against the Spurs. Duncan wouldn't even be able to stay on the floor.

I say Chicago will be really good in the frontcourt this year. After leaving that hellhole LA, Gasol will return to being a dominant big, especially in the lEastern conference.

The only issue I see with Chicago's front court is mobility. Gasol is really a center at this point in his career, and while Noah is a mobile and active defender for a center, if he has to play the four consistently on defense, he'll lose some effectiveness. Mirotic and McDermott are both combo-forwards, and I'm not sure if they'll be all that great playing the three on either end.

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Originally Posted by N0 LyF3 ScRuB

Sorry, but defense counts. He is not better.

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Right, while Love is among the best in the league offensively, Tim is still in the top 15% at his position on offense and a defensive anchor. Love might be one of the worst defensive bigs in the league (though we'll see if he ups his game).

Having never played a game in the playoffs, we'll see how he does next year when teams can game-plan around it. Lebron can't do everything on D.

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Originally Posted by SpursFan86

Varejao played 1800 minutes last season. Splitter played 1271. I get your point though...Varejao hasn't exactly been reliable the past 3-4 years. I was mainly talking about Love vs. Duncan. Love's ability to play heavy minutes for an entire season gives him a noticeable advantage over Duncan. Who would you rather have: a great player who gives you 36 mpg, or a very slightly better player (which again, I feel is a stretch when it comes to Love/Duncan) who only gives you 30 mpg?

I honestly just think saying Duncan > Love is a bit ridiculous at this point. The only people who would say this must be the guys who: a) think Love is some horrible defender who is such a liability on D that he's not a top 10 player (not true), or b) think Duncan is still a top 10 player in the league based off how he played last season + playoffs, which again, isn't true.

For the record, I would definitely pick us over the Cavs in the playoffs. Our experience + depth + coaching is what gives us the edge though IMO...not our starting frontcourt vs. theirs.

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The fact is Duncan could still give us 36 minutes a game if he didn't have to play in the playoffs. Love never has to worry about that, now does he. Love is a paper tiger at this point. Not one playoff series, where defense plays a larger role? I don't know that he is as horrible at defense as he's made out to be, but I do believe he'll get exploited. He can put up some monster games in the regular season, offensively, and we won't see that from Duncan anymore, but until Love does something more than score a bunch of points as the first option on a perennially weak team that never made the playoffs, it's difficult to take him as seriously as some do. He is in the perfect situation, now. A place where he doesn't have to take his team to the playoffs, the weak East, with a genuine superstar that can do it for him.

I would, of course, agree that Love will put up better numbers than Duncan at this point in his career, and that may translate to Love being a "better player", but the advantage isn't as great for Love over Tim as the numbers would indicate. Would be great to watch the Old Man 'splain it in June. Right when it's close, during a closeout game, watching Tim set a match to a paper tiger with an up and under to put the game away.

When does the season begin?

Can someone post the backcourt ranking?

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Originally Posted by romain.star

Can someone post the backcourt ranking?

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1. Los Angeles Clippers (Chris Paul and J.J. Redick)

Congrats, Steve Ballmer, that $2 billion price tag comes with some cool features, namely the most well-rounded backcourt in the NBA. Once again, Chris Paul ranks as Bradford Doolittle's top point guard in the NBA, but in case you've been living under a rock, he's this generation's model of how to play point: excellent distributor, controller of game tempo, terrific penetration and finishing skills, deadly pull-up game, outstanding vision, elite IQ, vicious on-ball defense, clutch-time heroics, etc.

His counterpart, Redick, is no star in the conventional sense, but his elite shooting from all areas of the floor, undervalued ability to run secondary pick-and-roll and either score or distribute, and underrated defensive proficiency (particularly within team schemes) make him the perfect complement to Paul.

2. Golden State Warriors (Stephen Curry and Klay Thompson)

Think of the Warriors as a poor man's version of the Clippers' backcourt: Curry, while a much superior individual scoring talent (he might be the best shooter in the history of the NBA when it's all said and done), lacks Paul's ability to mitigate risk while chasing reward; in other words, Curry's passing vision is often let down by his passing inaccuracy, which leads to an above-average turnover rate. Furthermore, his individual defense leaves a lot to be desired, even though he has expressed a desire recently to take on a larger role on that end of the floor. (It always amuses me when players directly or indirectly blame their defensive deficiency on the demands of the former coach of the team.)

Meanwhile, Thompson has developed into one of the premier catch-and-shoot threats in the league, and his size gives you some versatility offensively, as far as different play situations in which he can be utilized, but he's not really capable of creating off the dribble beyond a beat or two. Defensively, he's got an ability to focus in and use his length and anticipation to guard 1s, 2s and 3s in one-on-one situations and active off-ball plays (i.e. locking and trailing off screens), but he has a penchant for losing his man if he's not the primary option.

3. Washington Wizards (John Wall and Bradley Beal)

The Wizards' backcourt has the highest ceiling on this list; if it fulfills its full potential, it'll be the best backcourt in the league. As of today, however, it remains an unfinished product. Wall took large strides this past year: He played 82 games for the first time in his career and vastly improved his 3-point shot from terrible (27 percent in 2012-13) to respectable (35 percent in 2013-14). He's also continued to perform well on the defensive end, where his size, length and top-shelf athleticism afford him all the tools to guard a variety of players. However, he's still learning how to play at different speeds, and his shot selection leaves a lot to be desired (he took more long 2s than any other type of field goal attempt and shot a miserable 37 percent from that range).

Beal has the potential to be the best shooting guard in the NBA: He's an excellent 3-point shooter, can create off the dribble and can be a tremendous on-ball defender at times. Still, he suffers from the same curious affliction that ails Wall and leads him to awful shot selection. Despite being a better-than-40 percent 3-point shooter, he took more long 2s than any other FGA type and shot a worse raw percentage: 37.

Because of their collective youth (Wall is 23 and Beal is 21), the Wizards' backcourt have a longer career arc to follow and have the most to gain via development.

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Suns were 4th and Bulls were 5th.

Spurs should be high in back-court rankings as well. Definitely ahead of Phoenix.

I think Washington's backcourt is so overrated at this point. Maybe they'll end up becoming one of the best backcourts in the league, but as of now they're not even top 5. Wall/Beal are both so overrated (particularly Beal).

CP3/Redick
Curry/Thompson
Parker/Green
Lillard/Matthews
Bledsoe/Dragic
Westbrook/Jackson (if Brooks continues to use them)
Beverley/Harden

I'd take all of them over Washington's backcourt tbh...probably Lowry/DeRozan as well.

I like Dragic a lot but I still think Rose/Buttler and Parker/Green are better.
I want to see if Kemba/Stephenson works...a strange duo, but if they've good chemistry Charlotte could have a strong backcourt.

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Originally Posted by Chinook

The only issue I see with Chicago's front court is mobility. Gasol is really a center at this point in his career, and while Noah is a mobile and active defender for a center, if he has to play the four consistently on defense, he'll lose some effectiveness. Mirotic and McDermott are both combo-forwards, and I'm not sure if they'll be all that great playing the three on either end.

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Gasol has nothing left in the tank.

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Originally Posted by Chinook

Spurs should be high in back-court rankings as well. Definitely ahead of Phoenix.

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That's one flaw of rating only SF/PF/C combos and PG/SG combos, as opposed to looking at the entire lineup.

Also it's a flaw of ignoring the defensive end of the floor.

Our backcourt is especially better if you take into account the bench. Mills is a top 3 bench PG and Manu is the best bench guy in the league...so our rotation of Parker/Green/Mills/Manu is pretty crazy. I think ESPN is just focusing on the starters though.

As I said, the Spurs won the title because they had an overwhelming amount of talent. People have made the team's success too much about Pop and not enough about the players themselves. The 2014 Spurs were greater than the sum of their parts, but the sum of their parts was still greater than that of every other team.

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Originally Posted by SpursFan86

Honestly, Cleveland's frontcourt is better than ours.

LeBron >>> Kawhi
Love >> Duncan
Varejao < Splitter
Thompson << Diaw

I'd probably put Chicago over Memphis. Noah/Gibson/Pau/Mirotic is a deadly big man rotation. They're weak at SF, but it's not like Memphis is loaded at that position either.

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It isn't just the talent level but how they complement each other.

Love>>Duncan

On the NBA market absolutely.

In a playoff game where D becomes so important absolutely laughable.

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Originally Posted by SpursFan86

Our backcourt is especially better if you take into account the bench. Mills is a top 3 bench PG and Manu is the best bench guy in the league...so our rotation of Parker/Green/Mills/Manu is pretty crazy. I think ESPN is just focusing on the starters though.

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THis. Plus just based on the starters I'd have us ranked in the Top 4 at worst. Both Parker (as an all-timer) and Green (in general) are underrated. Green's defense is excellent, and when he's hot on the 3, he may be the best "3 and D" guy in the league. I'd rather have him than Reddick. So, to have the Clippers #1 and the Spurs unranked, is just a slap in the face. Not sure how many championships Tony has to win before he's even in discussion with Paul, who has yet to make a conference finals, but you know how it goes. Green's d is nearly as good as Leonard''s and having both of them on the perimeter is just plain smothering to opponents.

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Originally Posted by BillMc

THis. Plus just based on the starters I'd have us ranked in the Top 4 at worst. Both Parker (as an all-timer) and Green (in general) are underrated. Green's defense is excellent, and when he's hot on the 3, he may be the best "3 and D" guy in the league. I'd rather have him than Reddick. So, to have the Clippers #1 and the Spurs unranked, is just a slap in the face. Not sure how many championships Tony has to win before he's even in discussion with Paul, who has yet to make a conference finals, but you know how it goes. Green's d is nearly as good as Leonard''s and having both of them on the perimeter is just plain smothering to opponents.

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I agree about Green, he's very underrated, he's the very definition of 3 and D. I'd even say his defense is better than Kawhi's, as he can guard PGs and smaller and quicker SGs and while Kawhi's better on the bigger SFs like LeBron, Green's transition D is top 2 in the league, while Kawhi's is above average. What works great, though, is the combo of them two on the perimeter.

THAT BACKCOURT LIST LMFAO

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Originally Posted by exstatic

Tim doesn't defend Aldridge, Tiago does.

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more like he raped him without condom all night long.

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Originally Posted by Raven

more like he raped him without condom all night long.

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You must have watched a very different playoff series than I did.

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Originally Posted by 100%duncan

THAT BACKCOURT LIST LMFAO

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Glad I'm not the only one who thought that. Redickulously gay, tbh.

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Originally Posted by exstatic

You must have watched a very different playoff series than I did.

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Tiago raped Aldridge.

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Originally Posted by Obstructed_View

Glad I'm not the only one who thought that. Redickulously gay, tbh.

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I know right? They should also put in perspective the whole backcourt line up, Parker-Green-Ginobili-Mills-Beli might be the deepest backcourt rotation in the league imho.

And if we're speaking of just the starting line up, TP and Green would wreck the top 3 in 2 on 2 :lol

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Originally Posted by littlecoyotecoin

The fact is Duncan could still give us 36 minutes a game if he didn't have to play in the playoffs. Love never has to worry about that, now does he. Love is a paper tiger at this point. Not one playoff series, where defense plays a larger role? I don't know that he is as horrible at defense as he's made out to be, but I do believe he'll get exploited. He can put up some monster games in the regular season, offensively, and we won't see that from Duncan anymore, but until Love does something more than score a bunch of points as the first option on a perennially weak team that never made the playoffs, it's difficult to take him as seriously as some do. He is in the perfect situation, now. A place where he doesn't have to take his team to the playoffs, the weak East, with a genuine superstar that can do it for him.

I would, of course, agree that Love will put up better numbers than Duncan at this point in his career, and that may translate to Love being a "better player", but the advantage isn't as great for Love over Tim as the numbers would indicate. Would be great to watch the Old Man 'splain it in June. Right when it's close, during a closeout game, watching Tim set a match to a paper tiger with an up and under to put the game away.

When does the season begin?

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This. If Tim isn't worrying about the playoffs, I could see him putting up 20/10 averages during the regular season, playing 33-35 minutes a game. Also, if Tim was allowed to play "Kevin Love" defense, his offense would be even closer to Love's numbers.

It is popular for people to do player comparisons "X vs Y". But this is really little more than intellectual masturbation except for very comparable players. The question is - what do you need for your team. If you need volume scoring or boards above all else, and have a decent rim protector, then maybe you take Love.

But, if you need elite rim protection, playoff experience, leadership, high BB IQ, above-average passing, and elite offensive skill that can be relied upon in a pinch (but not volume scoring), then Tim Duncan is an easy choice to make over Kevin Love. Honestly, it isn't even close. One is among the top 10 players all time (top 5 IMO), one is a very good regular season All-Star. Age of course matters as Love will last many more years, but we are talking about current level of skill.

In Game 6 overtime against OKC, if KLove where in TD's shoes, I see KLove chucking up 3's that clank off the rim. Duncan instead goes to his elite low-post skills against Ibaka, one of the best (if not the best) weak-side shotblockers in the league, and a terror on the court, and uses perfect skill to go into Ibaka's body and take away the shotblocking and make the bucket.

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Originally Posted by Perry Mason

This. If Tim isn't worrying about the playoffs, I could see him putting up 20/10 averages during the regular season, playing 33-35 minutes a game. Also, if Tim was allowed to play "Kevin Love" defense, his offense would be even closer to Love's numbers.

It is popular for people to do player comparisons "X vs Y". But this is really little more than intellectual masturbation except for very comparable players. The question is - what do you need for your team. If you need volume scoring or boards above all else, and have a decent rim protector, then maybe you take Love.

But, if you need elite rim protection, playoff experience, leadership, high BB IQ, above-average passing, and elite offensive skill that can be relied upon in a pinch (but not volume scoring), then Tim Duncan is an easy choice to make over Kevin Love. Honestly, it isn't even close. One is among the top 10 players all time (top 5 IMO), one is a very good regular season All-Star. Age of course matters as Love will last many more years, but we are talking about current level of skill.

In Game 6 overtime against OKC, if KLove where in TD's shoes, I see KLove chucking up 3's that clank off the rim. Duncan instead goes to his elite low-post skills against Ibaka, one of the best (if not the best) weak-side shotblockers in the league, and a terror on the court, and uses perfect skill to go into Ibaka's body and take away the shotblocking and make the bucket.

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:tu

Is jj Redick seriously considered to be a starter in the best backcourt? :lmao

Also why does everyone add another d to his last name?

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Originally Posted by spurraider21

Also why does everyone add another d to his last name?

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So far, I've seen one post in this thread where somebody did that. The rest of us spelled it correctly.

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Originally Posted by Obstructed_View

So far, I've seen one post in this thread where somebody did that. The rest of us spelled it correctly.

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i see it elsewhere all the time... so when i saw somebody here do it i just thought i'd bring it up. carry on...

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Originally Posted by Perry Mason

In Game 6 overtime against OKC, if KLove where in TD's shoes, I see KLove chucking up 3's that clank off the rim. Duncan instead goes to his elite low-post skills against Ibaka, one of the best (if not the best) weak-side shotblockers in the league, and a terror on the court, and uses perfect skill to go into Ibaka's body and take away the shotblocking and make the bucket.

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Tim knowing it was his time because OKC left Ibaka alone for the slaughter was the fine moment.
Then actually carrying out the slaughter, getting Tim in position for the execution, was another.
A sequence of beauty.

Sean's overuse of "the torture chamber ", as an announcer, was justified after the aforementioned sequence.

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Originally Posted by spurraider21

i see it elsewhere all the time... so when i saw somebody here do it i just thought i'd bring it up. carry on...

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Fair enough. He's not really popular enough to get his name right. It's not like he's actually part of the best backcourt in the NBA.

JJ fucking Redick??? :lmao

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Originally Posted by Perry Mason

In Game 6 overtime against OKC, if KLove where in TD's shoes, I see KLove chucking up 3's that clank off the rim. Duncan instead goes to his elite low-post skills against Ibaka, one of the best (if not the best) weak-side shotblockers in the league, and a terror on the court, and uses perfect skill to go into Ibaka's body and take away the shotblocking and make the bucket.

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I love Duncan, and I think he's still in that elite group of players that falls behind LeBron and Durant, but that's not fair. You're used to watch the Wolves' Love. He didn't have shooters and scorers around him to be able to take his man one-on-one in the low post at crunch time without defenses collapsing on him. Put Duncan alongside Rubio, Brewer and Pekovic, and let's see if he can operate in the low post as confortably as he did in that Game 6.

I expect Love's numbers to noticeably fall in Cleveland. He should take it, since he finally should be winning.

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Originally Posted by Genjuro

I love Duncan, and I think he's still in that elite group of players that falls behind LeBron and Durant, but that's not fair. You're used to watch the Wolves' Love. He didn't have shooters and scorers around him to be able to take his man one-on-one in the low post at crunch time without defenses collapsing on him. Put Duncan alongside Rubio, Brewer and Pekovic, and let's see if he can operate in the low post as confortably as he did in that Game 6.

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The difference between 2014 Tim Duncan and 1995 David Robinson, tbh.

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Originally Posted by exstatic

Varajao is great, but he'll probably play 40-50 games.

Perkins is trash, and should be considered an empty position. Not even Durant is good enough to elevate this front court into the top 3. I call bullshit on this one.

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Literally the first thing I thought when I read his name.

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Originally Posted by Spur|n|Austin

Literally the first thing I thought when I read his name.

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They have no reason to shut him down if the Cavs aren't 20 games out of first place. We might be surprised at how healthy a guy gets when he has something to play for in January.

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Originally Posted by Obstructed_View

They have no reason to shut him down if the Cavs aren't 20 games out of first place. We might be surprised at how healthy a guy gets when he has something to play for in January.

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He's played in 146 out of a Possible 328 games over the last 4 years. I don't think they're just shutting him down.

Would it be fair to say that the Spurs are, top to bottom, the deepest team in the NBA, and by a substantial margin?

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Originally Posted by exstatic

He's played in 146 out of a Possible 328 games over the last 4 years. I don't think they're just shutting him down.

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Good point, but they've also won 97 out of 328 games in those 4 years. They certainly haven't had anything to fight through injury for. Also, it's a bizarre coincidence that he and Kyrie Irving were the only guys in the league to miss time with an AC joint sprain.

They brought AV off the bench at one point when he was healthy, so getting minutes for him wasn't as big a priority as ping pong balls, imo.

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Originally Posted by Genjuro

I love Duncan, and I think he's still in that elite group of players that falls behind LeBron and Durant, but that's not fair. You're used to watch the Wolves' Love. He didn't have shooters and scorers around him to be able to take his man one-on-one in the low post at crunch time without defenses collapsing on him. Put Duncan alongside Rubio, Brewer and Pekovic, and let's see if he can operate in the low post as confortably as he did in that Game 6.

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You are making the wrong comparison. The question is what would KLove do in TD's situation? Based on what I have seen of KLove, he has a tendency to take contested three pointers in tight game situations when another move or pass is also available.

If KLove needs time to come in and adjust to the Spurs system and get more proficient in the post, that just proves my point that today, KLove is not a player who could replicate (on a results basis) what Tim brought in the playoffs.

I think clippers have a great front court, there sf position is rather weak tho