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Defensive counts a lot. It's not just an attribute like passing or three-point shooting like 2K makes it out to be. It's half the damned game. The Spurs having the best defensive front court is a big deal, since it's very likely that they would outperform the Cavs' players in a series.
Diaw is a big part of it as well. He is very good defensively.
Not when you're a white star, it doesn't. Then you get a free pass, like Nowitzki always has.Quote:
Originally Posted by N0 LyF3 ScRuB
Exactly. There are a lot of players in the NBA who can score. Even crappy teams have to score points. Until you produce in the playoffs when it matters it's kind of like looking good in a scrimmage.
This is a comparison. Adams and Ibaka are both better two-way players than Love and Varajao. I expect Adams to be much improved considering he was only a rookie last year.Quote:
Originally Posted by exstatic
Love vs. Duncan
Love has impressive offensive skills and very limited defensively
Love has been a bit of a prima donald (yes, that just happened!) and has never been in the playoffs. His attitude has been less than stellar and a bit of a distraction to his team. Love needs others to make him better, and he's got them now.
Love wins the one on one game, pretty sure.
Duncan has 5 rings, numerous all-time records, dominates through his presence, will, IQ and just logged a ton of minutes on yet another championship run
Duncan plays to win and he has succeeded in that in ways that no one else has. Duncan makes others better.
Duncan wins the playoff series, definitely. He has beaten Malone, Shaq, Nowitzki, Aldridge, D-Ho and many others. Love will be another added to the list if Cleveland gels and faces the Spurs in the Finals.
The Cavs are scary on paper, no doubt. They have a LOT of work to do, though.
Lebron was clearly outplayed in the NBA Finals by Kawhi, and Lebron has no injury excuses except a few minutes in one game when he cramped up. Furthermore Kawhi is 22 and on the way up. Lebron is 29 and on the way down.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpursFan86
Varejao played 1800 minutes last season. Splitter played 1271. I get your point though...Varejao hasn't exactly been reliable the past 3-4 years. I was mainly talking about Love vs. Duncan. Love's ability to play heavy minutes for an entire season gives him a noticeable advantage over Duncan. Who would you rather have: a great player who gives you 36 mpg, or a very slightly better player (which again, I feel is a stretch when it comes to Love/Duncan) who only gives you 30 mpg?Quote:
Originally Posted by spurraider21
I honestly just think saying Duncan > Love is a bit ridiculous at this point. The only people who would say this must be the guys who: a) think Love is some horrible defender who is such a liability on D that he's not a top 10 player (not true), or b) think Duncan is still a top 10 player in the league based off how he played last season + playoffs, which again, isn't true.
For the record, I would definitely pick us over the Cavs in the playoffs. Our experience + depth + coaching is what gives us the edge though IMO...not our starting frontcourt vs. theirs.
Not sure what game you were watching, as Splitter was the one shutting down LA, fresh of a skullfucking of Dwight Howard.Quote:
Originally Posted by aal04
You sort of touched on it. Duncan won't defend Love. Verajao is not going to tire him out on defense. Splitter can stay with Love all day long. I'm perfectly okay with Kevin Love taking 20 shots with Splitter in his jock. The Cavs might be a really good team, but the Spurs give them more matchup problems in the front court than any team in the league. A lineup with Lebron and Wiggins would have been a far better matchup for them against the Spurs. Duncan wouldn't even be able to stay on the floor.Quote:
Originally Posted by ginobilized
I say Chicago will be really good in the frontcourt this year. After leaving that hellhole LA, Gasol will return to being a dominant big, especially in the lEastern conference.
The only issue I see with Chicago's front court is mobility. Gasol is really a center at this point in his career, and while Noah is a mobile and active defender for a center, if he has to play the four consistently on defense, he'll lose some effectiveness. Mirotic and McDermott are both combo-forwards, and I'm not sure if they'll be all that great playing the three on either end.
Right, while Love is among the best in the league offensively, Tim is still in the top 15% at his position on offense and a defensive anchor. Love might be one of the worst defensive bigs in the league (though we'll see if he ups his game).Quote:
Originally Posted by N0 LyF3 ScRuB
Having never played a game in the playoffs, we'll see how he does next year when teams can game-plan around it. Lebron can't do everything on D.
The fact is Duncan could still give us 36 minutes a game if he didn't have to play in the playoffs. Love never has to worry about that, now does he. Love is a paper tiger at this point. Not one playoff series, where defense plays a larger role? I don't know that he is as horrible at defense as he's made out to be, but I do believe he'll get exploited. He can put up some monster games in the regular season, offensively, and we won't see that from Duncan anymore, but until Love does something more than score a bunch of points as the first option on a perennially weak team that never made the playoffs, it's difficult to take him as seriously as some do. He is in the perfect situation, now. A place where he doesn't have to take his team to the playoffs, the weak East, with a genuine superstar that can do it for him.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpursFan86
I would, of course, agree that Love will put up better numbers than Duncan at this point in his career, and that may translate to Love being a "better player", but the advantage isn't as great for Love over Tim as the numbers would indicate. Would be great to watch the Old Man 'splain it in June. Right when it's close, during a closeout game, watching Tim set a match to a paper tiger with an up and under to put the game away.
When does the season begin?
Can someone post the backcourt ranking?
Quote:
Originally Posted by romain.star
Suns were 4th and Bulls were 5th.Quote:
1. Los Angeles Clippers (Chris Paul and J.J. Redick)
Congrats, Steve Ballmer, that $2 billion price tag comes with some cool features, namely the most well-rounded backcourt in the NBA. Once again, Chris Paul ranks as Bradford Doolittle's top point guard in the NBA, but in case you've been living under a rock, he's this generation's model of how to play point: excellent distributor, controller of game tempo, terrific penetration and finishing skills, deadly pull-up game, outstanding vision, elite IQ, vicious on-ball defense, clutch-time heroics, etc.
His counterpart, Redick, is no star in the conventional sense, but his elite shooting from all areas of the floor, undervalued ability to run secondary pick-and-roll and either score or distribute, and underrated defensive proficiency (particularly within team schemes) make him the perfect complement to Paul.
2. Golden State Warriors (Stephen Curry and Klay Thompson)
Think of the Warriors as a poor man's version of the Clippers' backcourt: Curry, while a much superior individual scoring talent (he might be the best shooter in the history of the NBA when it's all said and done), lacks Paul's ability to mitigate risk while chasing reward; in other words, Curry's passing vision is often let down by his passing inaccuracy, which leads to an above-average turnover rate. Furthermore, his individual defense leaves a lot to be desired, even though he has expressed a desire recently to take on a larger role on that end of the floor. (It always amuses me when players directly or indirectly blame their defensive deficiency on the demands of the former coach of the team.)
Meanwhile, Thompson has developed into one of the premier catch-and-shoot threats in the league, and his size gives you some versatility offensively, as far as different play situations in which he can be utilized, but he's not really capable of creating off the dribble beyond a beat or two. Defensively, he's got an ability to focus in and use his length and anticipation to guard 1s, 2s and 3s in one-on-one situations and active off-ball plays (i.e. locking and trailing off screens), but he has a penchant for losing his man if he's not the primary option.
3. Washington Wizards (John Wall and Bradley Beal)
The Wizards' backcourt has the highest ceiling on this list; if it fulfills its full potential, it'll be the best backcourt in the league. As of today, however, it remains an unfinished product. Wall took large strides this past year: He played 82 games for the first time in his career and vastly improved his 3-point shot from terrible (27 percent in 2012-13) to respectable (35 percent in 2013-14). He's also continued to perform well on the defensive end, where his size, length and top-shelf athleticism afford him all the tools to guard a variety of players. However, he's still learning how to play at different speeds, and his shot selection leaves a lot to be desired (he took more long 2s than any other type of field goal attempt and shot a miserable 37 percent from that range).
Beal has the potential to be the best shooting guard in the NBA: He's an excellent 3-point shooter, can create off the dribble and can be a tremendous on-ball defender at times. Still, he suffers from the same curious affliction that ails Wall and leads him to awful shot selection. Despite being a better-than-40 percent 3-point shooter, he took more long 2s than any other FGA type and shot a worse raw percentage: 37.
Because of their collective youth (Wall is 23 and Beal is 21), the Wizards' backcourt have a longer career arc to follow and have the most to gain via development.
Spurs should be high in back-court rankings as well. Definitely ahead of Phoenix.
I think Washington's backcourt is so overrated at this point. Maybe they'll end up becoming one of the best backcourts in the league, but as of now they're not even top 5. Wall/Beal are both so overrated (particularly Beal).
CP3/Redick
Curry/Thompson
Parker/Green
Lillard/Matthews
Bledsoe/Dragic
Westbrook/Jackson (if Brooks continues to use them)
Beverley/Harden
I'd take all of them over Washington's backcourt tbh...probably Lowry/DeRozan as well.
I like Dragic a lot but I still think Rose/Buttler and Parker/Green are better.
I want to see if Kemba/Stephenson works...a strange duo, but if they've good chemistry Charlotte could have a strong backcourt.
Gasol has nothing left in the tank.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chinook
That's one flaw of rating only SF/PF/C combos and PG/SG combos, as opposed to looking at the entire lineup.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chinook
Also it's a flaw of ignoring the defensive end of the floor.
Our backcourt is especially better if you take into account the bench. Mills is a top 3 bench PG and Manu is the best bench guy in the league...so our rotation of Parker/Green/Mills/Manu is pretty crazy. I think ESPN is just focusing on the starters though.
As I said, the Spurs won the title because they had an overwhelming amount of talent. People have made the team's success too much about Pop and not enough about the players themselves. The 2014 Spurs were greater than the sum of their parts, but the sum of their parts was still greater than that of every other team.
It isn't just the talent level but how they complement each other.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpursFan86
Love>>Duncan
On the NBA market absolutely.
In a playoff game where D becomes so important absolutely laughable.