Is the bench better without Gino?

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Originally Posted by TheGreatYacht

8-2 (80.0 W%) without him this season
45-14 (76.3 W%) with him this season

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so the answer is basically no... :lol

It's a damn shame too, you would think the youngsters would've picked up their game by now, tbh... det fathead line, smh... did he play many mins?

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Originally Posted by ElNono

so the answer is basically no... :lol

It's a damn shame too, you would think the youngsters would've picked up their game by now, tbh... det fathead line, smh... did he play many mins?

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22mins :lol

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Originally Posted by TheGreatYacht

22mins :lol

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oh boy... the Spurs will have to figure something out by next season.

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Originally Posted by ElNono

so the answer is basically no... :lol

It's a damn shame too, you would think the youngsters would've picked up their game by now, tbh... det fathead line, smh... did he play many mins?

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He had a good game frankly... they didn't lack for scoring at all.
He set others up with with no Turnobili... lol

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Originally Posted by SAGirl

He had a good game frankly... they didn't lack for scoring at all.
He set others up with with no Turnobili... lol

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I said in another thread I didn't get to watch the game much at all, tbh, just commenting on the line posted... I'll take your word for it.

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Originally Posted by ElNono

I said in another thread I didn't get to watch the game much at all, tbh, just commenting on the line posted... I'll take your word for it.

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The bench scored over 55 points tbh. They hardly suffered from scoring ... obvious trolling is obvious...

Obviously no.

The problem with Manu and this team is that when scoring doesn´t come easy he still is the one that will come up with a bucket to ease everyone´s pressure

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Originally Posted by kaji157

The problem with Manu and this team is that when scoring doesn´t come easy he still is the one that will come up with a bucket to ease everyone´s pressure

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Gasol should help ease in that department. Lee can also get his own shot if he needs to. The rest are more or less streaky... Mills is a scorer but he will streak to bad shooting nights, save the last two games Simmons had not been shooting well... etc. not going to mention anyone else not in the regular rotation bc it just leads to trolling that is pointless... but they have more guys that can score now than they have had in years... specially with Gasol. If Manu feels the need to heroball that's just him being Manu...

I am no talking about hero ball at all as Manu barely shots the ball now.
Just that when the pressure is up, he is still the pressure valve for the bench and sometimes the team.
Gasol, Lma, mills or Danny are not going to get that score that ends a scoring drought when the other team is just making a run.
Manu has done it many times. Including this year.

Why are people taking this thread seriously. :lol

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Originally Posted by kaji157

I am no talking about hero ball at all as Manu barely shots the ball now.
Just that when the pressure is up, he is still the pressure valve for the bench and sometimes the team.
Gasol, Lma, mills or Danny are not going to get that score that ends a scoring drought when the other team is just making a run.
Manu has done it many times. Including this year.

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He's shooting below 39% on 2 pt shots TBH. He is struggling at the rim.
To me the most valuable are the defensive plays he still makes. He's still a game changer when defensively he's sharp.. his gambles still pay off often enough that they change momentum. He's still good with his 3 pt shots and can bail out possessions if he needs to ... I think he needs to cut his TO a bit bc he is no longer the dominant player who can make up mistakes like that on the other end... A turnobili game is not a good idea... Manu heroballing doesn't look like typical heroballing. heroballing can be just consuming posesssions that end in a reckless pass bc he wanted to "playmake"

Anyways, TGY is obviously trolling about Manu. But he doesn't need to be heroballing/TO the ball recklessly with this bench.

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Originally Posted by kaji157

The problem with Manu and this team is that when scoring doesn´t come easy he still is the one that will come up with a bucket to ease everyone´s pressure

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That is exactly the problem imo. And maybe why he doesn't get noticed when the team is playing well. When people are hitting their shots, he seems fine with being a distributor. But when the team is sucking, he does seem to take it upon himself to make something happen. Still seems to be able to get into the paint and get shots off. But they're just not falling like they used to.

I always thought he could remake himself into the older version of Jason Kidd. Hold on to the ball, makes some good passes, hit an open three. But I don't think his mentality allows him to do that.

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Originally Posted by SpursforSix

That is exactly the problem imo. And maybe why he doesn't get noticed when the team is playing well. When people are hitting their shots, he seems fine with being a distributor. But when the team is sucking, he does seem to take it upon himself to make something happen. Still seems to be able to get into the paint and get shots off. But they're just not falling like they used to.

I always thought he could remake himself into the older version of Jason Kidd. Hold on to the ball, makes some good passes, hit an open three. But I don't think his mentality allows him to do that.

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Not only his mentality, the team itself doesn´t create many open shots without Him, Tony and TD being the players that put pressure on the defense and sarts a play with the opposing defense scrambling to recover.

I have been saying that the real difference between the 2013-2015 team and these days, is that back then the offense was started by the big 3 but not always finished by them, because the 3 of them were a lot better than Kawhi and LMA in recognising when they had already broken the defense and pass out, even if it was not for an assist or a hockey assist, they were very good on realising the exact moment to let the ball go to another teammate because the defense would need to recover.

Both LMA and Kawhi, can take the offense by themselves, but are not good enough to start offensive sequences that end up on a bucket after 2 or more passes. They can score, and make the assist, but that´s it.

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Originally Posted by SAGirl

He's shooting below 39% on 2 pt shots TBH. He is struggling at the rim.
To me the most valuable are the defensive plays he still makes. He's still a game changer when defensively he's sharp.. his gambles still pay off often enough that they change momentum. He's still good with his 3 pt shots and can bail out possessions if he needs to ... I think he needs to cut his TO a bit bc he is no longer the dominant player who can make up mistakes like that on the other end... A turnobili game is not a good idea... Manu heroballing doesn't look like typical heroballing. heroballing can be just consuming posesssions that end in a reckless pass bc he wanted to "playmake"

Anyways, TGY is obviously trolling about Manu. But he doesn't need to be heroballing/TO the ball recklessly with this bench.

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Still...

Player / Assist to TO Ratio / Team SAS / USG

Tony Parker / 3.44 / 1 / 20.3
Patty Mills / 2.89 / 2 / 19.3
Kyle Anderson / 2.45 / 3 / 11.8
Pau Gasol / 1.91 / 4 / 21.4
Manu Ginobili / 1.87 / 5 / 19.7
Kawhi Leonard / 1.66 / 6 / 31.4

As you can see, Manu is still a plus, as are all the players in this list as all of them are above league average. Kyle only sneaks in because he is not a high usage player.

You also were worried about his FG%...

His FG has dipped a lot, and is a main thing for concern, but i think in order for him to be effective he needs the defense to pay attention to him when he has the ball, and that´s the main reason he is the 6th shot taker on the team, while shooting .388 for the season, which is low. He is shooting better from 3 than he is from 2, and that is something usefull, but if you look at the premier shot takers on our team, #5 is Danny Green, and he is shooting .397 overall.

All in all, if Manu in the playoffs can take his shooting percentage to 42% or better and keep THIS assist to TO ratio, we will be fine with it.

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Originally Posted by kaji157

Not only his mentality, the team itself doesn´t create many open shots without Him, Tony and TD being the players that put pressure on the defense and sarts a play with the opposing defense scrambling to recover.

I have been saying that the real difference between the 2013-2015 team and these days, is that back then the offense was started by the big 3 but not always finished by them, because the 3 of them were a lot better than Kawhi and LMA in recognising when they had already broken the defense and pass out, even if it was not for an assist or a hockey assist, they were very good on realising the exact moment to let the ball go to another teammate because the defense would need to recover.

Both LMA and Kawhi, can take the offense by themselves, but are not good enough to start offensive sequences that end up on a bucket after 2 or more passes. They can score, and make the assist, but that´s it.

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I disagree that LMA can take the offense by himself. He settles way too much for an outside jumper. He's rarely backed down as far as Timmy was. So you never have the same defensive collapse on LMA as Duncan. Even if Lemarcus caught the ball lower, he's still not worth a double team like Timmy was. But he rarely works his way that low anyway. It's too easy for an opposing team to just let him stand out and shoot a 15 foot jumper.

Also, he doesn't have the same passing skills as Duncan. If Lemarcus is within 15 feet, he's not even looking up to pass. Niggas could be cutting left and right under the basket but he's going to either hoist up a jump shot or keep backing down for a short hook.

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Originally Posted by kaji157

Still...

Player / Assist to TO Ratio / Team SAS / USG

Tony Parker / 3.44 / 1 / 20.3
Patty Mills / 2.89 / 2 / 19.3
Kyle Anderson / 2.45 / 3 / 11.8
Pau Gasol / 1.91 / 4 / 21.4
Manu Ginobili / 1.87 / 5 / 19.7
Kawhi Leonard / 1.66 / 6 / 31.4

As you can see, Manu is still a plus, as are all the players in this list as all of them are above league average. Kyle only sneaks in because he is not a high usage player.

You also were worried about his FG%...

His FG has dipped a lot, and is a main thing for concern, but i think in order for him to be effective he needs the defense to pay attention to him when he has the ball, and that´s the main reason he is the 6th shot taker on the team, while shooting .388 for the season, which is low. He is shooting better from 3 than he is from 2, and that is something usefull, but if you look at the premier shot takers on our team, #5 is Danny Green, and he is shooting .397 overall.

All in all, if Manu in the playoffs can take his shooting percentage to 42% or better and keep THIS assist to TO ratio, we will be fine with it.

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And the league is below average.

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Originally Posted by kaji157

Still...

Player / Assist to TO Ratio / Team SAS / USG

Tony Parker / 3.44 / 1 / 20.3
Patty Mills / 2.89 / 2 / 19.3
Kyle Anderson / 2.45 / 3 / 11.8
Pau Gasol / 1.91 / 4 / 21.4
Manu Ginobili / 1.87 / 5 / 19.7
Kawhi Leonard / 1.66 / 6 / 31.4

As you can see, Manu is still a plus, as are all the players in this list as all of them are above league average. Kyle only sneaks in because he is not a high usage player.

You also were worried about his FG%...

His FG has dipped a lot, and is a main thing for concern, but i think in order for him to be effective he needs the defense to pay attention to him when he has the ball, and that´s the main reason he is the 6th shot taker on the team, while shooting .388 for the season, which is low. He is shooting better from 3 than he is from 2, and that is something usefull, but if you look at the premier shot takers on our team, #5 is Danny Green, and he is shooting .397 overall.

All in all, if Manu in the playoffs can take his shooting percentage to 42% or better and keep THIS assist to TO ratio, we will be fine with it.

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It's all about consistency though and the timing of his good games. Same with Green. As many have said, I'd rather have consistent average numbers than a combination of some great games and some shit games. Especially for a player who gets major minutes.

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Originally Posted by kaji157

Still...

Player / Assist to TO Ratio / Team SAS / USG

Tony Parker / 3.44 / 1 / 20.3
Patty Mills / 2.89 / 2 / 19.3
Kyle Anderson / 2.45 / 3 / 11.8
Pau Gasol / 1.91 / 4 / 21.4
Manu Ginobili / 1.87 / 5 / 19.7
Kawhi Leonard / 1.66 / 6 / 31.4

As you can see, Manu is still a plus, as are all the players in this list as all of them are above league average. Kyle only sneaks in because he is not a high usage player.

You also were worried about his FG%...

His FG has dipped a lot, and is a main thing for concern, but i think in order for him to be effective he needs the defense to pay attention to him when he has the ball, and that´s the main reason he is the 6th shot taker on the team, while shooting .388 for the season, which is low. He is shooting better from 3 than he is from 2, and that is something usefull, but if you look at the premier shot takers on our team, #5 is Danny Green, and he is shooting .397 overall.

All in all, if Manu in the playoffs can take his shooting percentage to 42% or better and keep THIS assist to TO ratio, we will be fine with it.

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I am not really making an argument in favor of anybody... just stating the obvious. The team can score without Manu bc they have enough good players in the bench and some that are particularly offensive players and adept at creating for others or themselves. I never said he was a negative.... that was mainly the troll the TGY. Manu is still gonna Manu.. one of the reasons I think he is going to retire. He simply must have freedom to do as he pleases with the ball and he's starting to edge close to that point in time when he's not good enough to have that freedom. Certainly having great teammates helps him. If he was going to carry this burden in the 76ers as his agent threatened to, I doubt he would be still effective.

He's at the tail end of his career and it shows.

http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/...20130423134837

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Originally Posted by SAGirl

The bench scored over 55 points tbh. They hardly suffered from scoring ... obvious trolling is obvious...

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:lol not trolling, tbh... I'll be the first to cheer when Kyle becomes a fixture in the bench rotation due to his consistent production...

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Originally Posted by ElNono

:lol not trolling, tbh... I'll be the first to cheer when Kyle becomes a fixture in the bench rotation due to his consistent production...

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:toast

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Originally Posted by SpursforSix

I disagree that LMA can take the offense by himself. He settles way too much for an outside jumper. He's rarely backed down as far as Timmy was. So you never have the same defensive collapse on LMA as Duncan. Even if Lemarcus caught the ball lower, he's still not worth a double team like Timmy was. But he rarely works his way that low anyway. It's too easy for an opposing team to just let him stand out and shoot a 15 foot jumper.

Also, he doesn't have the same passing skills as Duncan. If Lemarcus is within 15 feet, he's not even looking up to pass. Niggas could be cutting left and right under the basket but he's going to either hoist up a jump shot or keep backing down for a short hook.

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I feel LA has the skill but not the confidence. Hes a better passer than is given credit for and a better low post scorer than is given credit for but is still in the process of how to implement these things within the system. Duncan never had such a problem. He had the big picture before he ever stepped out onto the court.

Having said that....go LA!!

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Originally Posted by skulls138

I feel LA has the skill but not the confidence. Hes a better passer than is given credit for and a better low post scorer than is given credit for but is still in the process of how to implement these things within the system. Duncan never had such a problem. He had the big picture before he ever stepped out onto the court.

Having said that....go LA!!

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I don't think it's lack of confidence. I think it's lack of desire. Desire to get on the blocks and bang smaller players. Desire to work on that part of his game. I agree that he's not a terrible passer. But he'd be more effective if he were able to get down low and kick the ball out. He's usually 15 feet out and not drawing a double team. Get down low and pull in the D...then kick out to an open shooter or look for someone cutting down the lane.

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