Cojo ain't getting the contract he deserves as the 3rd string PG on the Spurs. Someone will offer him more. Should we trade Patty and resign Cojo or should be let Cojo walk or try to S&T him
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Cojo ain't getting the contract he deserves as the 3rd string PG on the Spurs. Someone will offer him more. Should we trade Patty and resign Cojo or should be let Cojo walk or try to S&T him
The Spurs will tender the QO to Joseph and make him an RFA. They'll match any reasonable offer.
His reasonable offer is going to be way more than they want to pay a 3rd string PGQuote:
Originally Posted by Mel_13
Joseph could easily command max salary for a NBA backup PG
Mills as well.
good thing is Evita is retiring so we could possibly make room or course we'd probably have to let Ferrari and/or Green walk
Why would you keep Joseph over Mills?
:lol that's a lot of assumptions written as if you know something the others don'tQuote:
Originally Posted by Cklbmk
You don't know what his offer will be or that the team will view him as a 3rd string PG. When the market determines Cojo's value, the Spurs will make their decision.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cklbmk
I've said all along that I liked Cory over Patty, so I'd go for the former choice. Don't think the Spurs needs to worry about that this season, though. Someone will be willing to take Mills in the off-season if necessary. Hell, Philly may even give up something of value.
However, if the Spurs wanted to dump Mills, they could create a sizeable TE (almost $4 Million) by sending him and Ayres to Miami for the 2015 second, Hamilton and Cole. Have Miami use their McRoberts IPE on Ayres to make up the salary on their end.
If only Enrique wasn't overpaid.. :cry he's earning way more than he deservesQuote:
Originally Posted by hater
The Spurs aren't trading mills. That's just dumb talk. He pretty much outplayed any pg last year by a huge margin in the playoffs. He is still playing a little better than good right now when everyone is playing like shit. :lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Chinook
He deserves 7mil right now. I don't know how kawhi would want parker to be part of a big three after tim and tony retires. :lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Diego20
Patty is under a very reasonable contract by NBA standards, and probably cheap looking at future cap space...
I think a lot of this stuff will sort itself out after we learn if TD/Manu retire or are coming back for another season...
... So?Quote:
Originally Posted by dabom
The QO is a little over 3 million...so he's not going to get much more than that as I feel they won't pay him more than Patty. 4 million a year isn't bad at all for a team looking for a solid backup PG and I really can't see the Spurs matching that. Having almost 8 million wrapped up in backup PG's when they are also looking at new deals for Danny and Kawhi isn't very smart.
It feels like it really is set up for him to walk and the Spurs wind up with nothing for him...which is why I think they should try to move him at the deadline to a PG needy team that can re-sign him.
Trade both tbh. The rebuilding process starts now.
So your trade scenario is for naught. Idiotic even.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chinook
Patty isn't going anywhere tbh.
Considering their respective contracts I would trade Tony before trading Mills, tbh. Not even trolling.
so? Cojo is obviously already having a superior season and breakout season.Quote:
Originally Posted by dabom
Like hakeem? I could see it tbh.Quote:
Originally Posted by DAF86
Why is it idiotic? I said the Spurs weren't going to trade Mills, but that they could easily if they wanted to. Then I proposed a trade that got them a replacement, a young big and tons of flexibility this and next season.Quote:
Originally Posted by dabom
Your whole attack is that Mills isn't going to be traded ... which is something I already said.
See why I don't think you know what you're talking about?
It is a breakout season but it still only elevates him to good patty mills levels. Not even playoff patty mills.Quote:
Originally Posted by hater
Keep MVPatty and Cojo and unload Enrique
:lol love him but Mills is one of the most overhyped spur players ever :lol
To chifag
"Trade Patty mills? Or let Cojo walk?"
"I've said all along that I liked Cory over Patty, so I'd go for the former choice." chifag
You actually already made your choice.
"Don't think the Spurs needs to worry about that this season, though. Someone will be willing to take Mills in the off-season if necessary. Hell, Philly may even give up something of value." chifag
This doesn't actually change anything.
So you actually did participate in this hypothetical question you stupid fag.
"I said the Spurs weren't going to trade Mills, but that they could easily if they wanted to." chifag
Actually no you didnt fag.
Joseph and Mills are different players and bring separate skill sets. As you continue to overrate Joseph, remember that with him at the helm as our starting point guard, the Spurs record was in the tank. Parker has successfully kept the Spurs at or near the top every year (but one) for the last 5+ years that he has been a dominant player. When Parker is 100% healthy, he is the superior guard on the roster, at least for anyone that understands basketball. That said, I do think CoJo has improved and certainly has demonstrated that he belongs in the NBA and deserves minutes on a nightly basis.
God, dude, are you 15? Did you seriously make a jumbled mess of post just so you could call me 'Chifag' as many times as you could? And you expect anyone to take you seriously?Quote:
Originally Posted by dabom
Anyway, I'd pick Cory over Patty. I proposed the trade scenario to show that Mills could be dumped easily. The Spurs will not be in a position to where they can't afford Joseph because Mills is on the team.
So let's recap: The thread is about if we'd rather trade Mills or let Cory walk. I picked the former. Then I said there's no reason to worry about picking now because Mills can be traded at any time. Then I said that if the Spurs went that route this season, here's an idea.
Your only response to the idea was that Mills wasn't going to be traded, which I agreed with. That you meant ever and I meant this season is at best my misunderstanding and more likely yours, since my scenario is only applicable to this season.
So to clarify, neither Mills nor Joseph should be traded this season. Neither should be moved next season unless the Spurs desperately need cap space. If it's a choice between the two of them, Mills can be moved easily, so his contract doesn't give him the edge over Joseph. I like Joseph better, so I think he should be the one to stay.
However, there's enough room for both if Manu retires. They're playing well together now.
You said we don't have to worry about it this year but you could still trade mills in the future. Hence 'trade", hence still part of the subject. Chifag. :lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Chinook
What part of, 'I'd pick Cory over Patty but neither should be moved,' is hard for you to get? If your whole thing is going to be Patty>Cory, that's cool, but it's a different argument than the 'This proposal's stupid because Mills isn't going to be traded' thing you're running with currently.Quote:
Originally Posted by dabom
keep both
But you never said both would not be moved. You initially stated the spurs could wait until next season to trade mills. You're trying to move the post it's so funny.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chinook
More like "This proposal's stupid because Mills isn't going to be traded to keep cory" scenario. :lol
http://i.imgur.com/ic0ZMVx.gifQuote:
Originally Posted by in2deep
Depending on Joseph's price tag, I'd keep both. Joseph got better, but he isn't a starting material PG. Teams won't put a crazy offer on the table to get a decent good backup PG.
SA has to let go Belineli, Ayres, Daye and Bonner, not young players that can still improve on decent contracts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lefty
Keep both and trade Parker next year.Duncan and Manu are retiring this season.Start rebuilding process.
Fact is that at the end of this season Duncan, Parker and Ginobli will retire with Pop. This season has made them well aware that they are getting old, a little stale and that is time to enjoy their vast wealth. So for Spurs to get rid of Cojo or Patty would be madness. Next season both players will finally be paid their true worth . So Cojo will hang around on that understanding with Spurs management. Get ready fans a Spurs era is about to end - lets hope they make the playoffs first.
:tuQuote:
Originally Posted by DAF86
Pop just signed like a 5 year extension and Tony signed a 3 year extension, IIRC... those two are not going anywhere.Quote:
Originally Posted by downunder
Lettuce beef real tea.
Patty is an SG. Joseph is a PG. Keep both.
Do you have terrible reading comprehension? I said the Spurs don't have to make a decision because they can dump Mills at any time (and because Cory is an RFA). So they don't have to worry about next year until they see what's in front of them.Quote:
Originally Posted by dabom
Again, a Mills/Joseph debate is a worthy one to have, but that's not an evaluation of a trade proposal. You thinking Mills is better in no way negates me saying Patty can be moved easily.
Corey has awesome defense and is able to get the the rim now even better than parker at the moment, then again Mills can fill it up. Both play vital roles that this team needs. Take one away, and we won't be as successful.
it's pretty obvious cojo is the better player and it's not really close, but i don't consider patty as a point guard so depending on the offer they may stay both. i doubt cory will get such a great offer, there just aren't that many teams with capspace
I don't think they necessarily have to slot Mills in as a PG. I think they keep both, and Patty is the backup scorer/SG off the bench. Let Marco walk. Manu either retires or takes less to come back. But long-term, I think a CoJo/Mills back court off the bench is a realistic (and viable) possibility.
You can see Pop already starting to experiment with the two of them together now. CoJo's defense (especially if he can get it back up to last year's level) makes him a decent defender of backup SGs, even if he gives up height. Also, having a good second-unit back court locked in for ~$8M is a good deal.
Trade the players who fit the system? How long will the Spurs be doing those 'experiments' then let other teams savor the fruits of their labor?
He was having a terrible playoff run til the finalsQuote:
Originally Posted by hater
:lol playoff Patty
When the going gets tough, parker leaves only to come back if we're winning. :lolQuote:
Originally Posted by SpursFan313
Pop telling parker to stop going enrique mode and to pass the ball without hurting his feelings. :lol
in isolation maybe, but it is undeniable, infallible, unquestionable, unequivocal, undebatable fact that we are a better team, and are now playing better with him in the team. Without him, we would not have 5.Quote:
Originally Posted by hater
Joseph's style of play is way too unattractive for teams to pay a lot for to be a backup IMO, he would have to make massive strides to become a legit starting PG..a PG that shoots mid-range jump shots and doesn't make plays for others is suited to be a scoring backup PG, obviously..so, I'm not really worried about other teams paying him too much, his skillset is tough to build around..
Patty is the same, as he's a 2-guard in a 6-footer's body, but those types of players seem to always fool teams into paying them:lol..
Isn't Patty on a ~3-4 mil per year contract? That's pretty good for your back-up pg/sg, 2nd best player of the 2nd unit etc2. If you let go of someone, it's Cojo. It really depends on what Pop wants to do when Manu retires, does patty become the full time back-up sg? If yes then keep both. If no, then let Cory walk.
And this is all because of TP's contract. I love Parker but damn that contract will kill us.
Why would anyone want to trade Mills, he carries that bench (as you can see on this 2 game win streak)
Mills is on a friendly 3 year deal and would probably fetch more than a RFA pending Joseph. Joseph can fill the backup PG very wellQuote:
Originally Posted by baseline bum
Why would you want any of that stuff from MiamiQuote:
Originally Posted by Chinook
Quote:
Originally Posted by DAF86
I would too I just don't see who takes Tony Parker for something worth it
Keep painting youself into that corner brah.Quote:
Originally Posted by dabom
Kyle Anderson as the starting PG is the solution
Cojo play making will become increasingly important when Manu leaves and if Tony continues to suck. He's more important than patty going forward.
Can't put Cojo and playmaking in the same sentence... he is what he is...
He is definitely doing his best parker impersonation at 3mil a year and that's with little to no play calling for him.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElNono
He could definitely be a better playmaker in the future. You should be one to know what you see now is not set in stone.
Cojo also has that fearless attitude that parker used to have. :lol
Cojo needs to improve his BBIQ
He really isn't a playmaker, that's not to say he isn't good at doing other things (for example, he's become a great penetrator and finisher).Quote:
Originally Posted by dabom
Yes, he can improve and no, I'm not opposed to keeping him, but the price tag does matter. We already have Tony on the books for another 3 years.
https://cdn1.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/9op..._su8_221.0.jpg
We gotta keep the Super Spurs Bros. together!
Bottom line is Cory is a regular season player, Mills is a playoff player. And bringing up his one dunk against the Thunder is the same as bringing up a play where Ayres caught a pass and claiming he's turned a corner. Cory didn't win that series; Boner inserting his red rocket up OKC is what won it.
What If I told you putting kawhi on westbrook won us that series?Quote:
Originally Posted by jeebus
I don't think that precludes them from resigning him. Assuming they take care of all their housekeeping before the 72 hours is up on CoJo getting an offer sheet (and that's if he gets one at the start of free agency), they will pay him so long as it doesn't put them above the tax and the dollar figure isn't so onerous that he couldn't be moved.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cklbmk
Chances are teams probably will NOT be using up cap space over valuable days to give him an offer sheet and once the dust settles, many teams will be topping out at the MLE.
If someone offers $5-$6 a year on a 3 year deal, I imagine they push for sign and trade, or match and figure it out later. Say it's the system all you want, but give me a PG any day who shoots over 50% from the floor while keeping turnovers down.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjw
Problem I see is there is a strong chance they renounce him if they want to spend 10mil+ on a free agent
Keep both, if Manu returns and they need to let someone go then let Marco go, then try and find someone that won't be a total liability at SF.
Nope..Quote:
Originally Posted by dabom
Taking Parker out won the series, tbh..Spurs were down by double-digits at the half in game 6 until he left the game, then the rest is history:lol..
Good point. $3 million qualifying offer vs. $0.5 million for a roster hold does make a bit of a difference. I think they'll have at least $10 million of space to play with regardless - issue is more about getting higher than that. If Tim or Manu want to come back, that would entail them signing the minute free agency ends to bring down their cap holds.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cklbmk
i think they should move parker to the bench and have him in a Vinnie Johnson role as a 6th man lighting shit up off the pine. If ginobli could put aside his ego and come off the bench for all of his career then parker should be able to do it the last 2 or 3 years of his career. He aint making it to 20 years.
yep. parker wasn't really injured, but sitting parker down won us that game 6. Parker groupies will deny it, but it's true.Quote:
Originally Posted by Malik Hairston
More than Derek Anderson and TJ Ford put togetherQuote:
Originally Posted by hater
What about bringing back George Hill or Beno Udreh?
I wouldn't trade/let go either of them. Again, keep them both.
Man, I wish we could have seen TJ Ford play with the Spurs a little longer.
Ford wouldn't have averaged 10 points a game, I can tell you that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Freemason Jr.
Cojo is a playmaker? I've heard it all now.:lol
Hell no! That Cojo dunk was the personification of the spurs will to win. That game was over. That dunk was the kind of statement that Ayers will never make. Catching a pass in some meaningless reg season game, you gotta be kidding me.Quote:
Originally Posted by jeebus
I'll leave Bonner alone. I hate him. He's an old scrub, who could be replaced by draft and stash. But I can't say he didn't have nearly the same impact as Cojo in that series.
Cojo deserves $$$ and minutes. He probably gets both from the spurs. It'd work. But mills and parker will lose. I'd work a deal to minny that's based on cojo for lavine. That deal is absolutely plausible except that minny has the history or ak47'ing the spurs. And to that I say T-dot.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Legacy
We can't afford to let Patty go bc of what he brings off the bench. CoJo's really started to grow on me the past couple of years (especially this year.) But I think he's more apt for the Tony Parker role, he's just not ready for it yet. And it's not like Parker's ready to call it quits either. I think our best bet would be to try to convince CoJo to stay with us and play spot minutes/be there if someone's hurt for the next few years and then if he continues to show improvement maybe he could be our starting point guard. He's not there yet but I think as much as he's improved the past couple of years he's shown that he still has high upside. The kid's gone from a fringe NBA player to a solid backup in just a few years and he's only 23 years old.
I would say that his starts are pretty damn good for a 23 year old PG. I wonder how much this guy improves the next 4-5 years when he starts to hit his prime.
It's a decent TE and some small assets. That'd be a tremendous haul for a salary dump of a bench player. I dont want Mills traded, but if the team wanted to dump him, they could get a pretty good deal that doesn't hurt their future cap.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cklbmk
I'd say keep both and head into next year with three good PGs, and the flexibility to use one as a trade chip if necessary. Against certain line ups, Cojo could take more of Manu's and Beli's minutes (I don't know if either of them will be around next year) as bench combo guard. Remember-- after developing George Hill, the Spurs converted him into Kawhi Leonard... There's a mystique the Spurs have with the rest of the league, a sense that they develop players better than other teams, but also that those players might not be as effective outside of the Spurs... I think that's one of the reasons why a guy like Mills didn't get any monster/unmatchable offers last year and why Cojo probably won't get any this summer.
Joseph + Belinelli for Wilson Chandler? Gives Denver a secure backup, though they may ask for a draft pick also.
Cory's been playing much better and has shown improvement in an increased role, but I'm still not completely sold on him. Don't get me wrong, if I can keep them both I would, but if I had to choose between the two right now, I'd take Patty in a heartbeat. In today's game, there's a premium on shooting and spacing the floor. Cory just doesn't do that now. Although he's still young, I'm not sure if he can add that to his game.
I think Pop is going to give Tony the old mantreatment from here on out. He needs to be fresh for the playoffs. That means keeping him well under 30 minutes a game which will open up plenty of PT for the 3 of them. Especially considering how many sets have 2 of the 3 out on the floor at the same time.
Unless someone vastly overpays for Joseph, they're not letting him go. Not after they spent 3 plus years developing him into a rotation player. Not when Ginobili is either retiring after this season or one more, not when Belinelli is a free agent who's future is up in the air and not when Parker, in decline and increasingly fragile, will be playing for France again this summer. Given all that, it makes no sense to let young, reasonably priced (more than likely) depth/insurance walk.
If Ellis, who's the exact same size as Joseph and a notoriously terrible defender, can get away with defending starting SG's for years, then it's not even a question that Joseph can get away with defending most backup ones. Of course, certain match-ups will be difficult, but as long as Pop mixes and matches as necessary with the starting wings, they should be fine.
I suggested this in the think tank. Chandler hasn't been as good this year, but he's only 27 change of scenery might be just what he needs. Reports came out recently that they Nuggets are shopping him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.Bottomtooth
It's minimal risk financially as well. He's being paid a manageable 6.7 million this season and his final year has only 2 million guaranteed.