Speech is officially unfree in much of Europe. Not sure why people are surprised. In France you can go to jail for being a holocaust denier.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gayssot_Act
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Speech is officially unfree in much of Europe. Not sure why people are surprised. In France you can go to jail for being a holocaust denier.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gayssot_Act
Quote:
Originally Posted by apalisoc_9
I would support Tony's arrest as well. :lol
LOL, well said!Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Body
then you have not learned much when you were there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Splits
Great explanation. Tell me what you disagree with in this piece: https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2...book-comments/Quote:
Originally Posted by Nero5
BRAZIL
WHAT DID I TELL YOU?
DOUBLE STANDARDS
:lmao France
"And a 22-year-old in the Paris suburb of Nanterre was sentenced to a year in jail for posting a video mocking one of the policemen shot dead last week."
http://news.yahoo.com/french-comedia...150125064.html
The French authorities also cancelled Dieudonne's tour a while ago because it was deemed antisemitic
:lol after this I'm done with this topicQuote:
Originally Posted by lefty
there is no double standard, there would be double standard if law was different for Jewish and Muslim or whatever... Incitive genocide of Muslims in France and u go to jail simple as that.
charlie never incitivated somebody to kill Muslims not sure where u see a double standard.... When dat faggot Dieudonne say I'm Coulibaly who killed 4 Jews (I guess like for Charlie these dudes deserved it too) considering his antisemitisim he will be accused to incentive hate and violence.
furthermore this kind of law is not specific to france but exists in most western countries
Finally U.S. citizens giving lessons about individual liberty or freedom of speech after patriot act and other funny laws is quite :lmao
let us proceed
So you can publish a picture in a newspaper bashing Muslims but you can't post something on FB regarding jews? That's somehow not a double standard?
As far as inciting violence i'm pretty sure the attack proved that CH's comics incite violence. I think they have every right to do what they did don't get me wrong, but to then arrest people for making a statement or comment that 'could incite violence' is damn hypocritical from where I sit.
again for the 100th timeQuote:
Originally Posted by Brazil
Its not about killing or not
It's about the reaction to the tragedy, people talking about free speech and saying it was just satire
But when Dieudonne opens his mouth it's neither :lmao
Bashing Muslims or Jews is Legal in France. Crime apology is not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Splits
That´s not all he did. He has a history most posters here don´t know or ignore:Quote:
Originally Posted by unleashbaynes
Court actions
On 14 June 2006, Dieudonné was sentenced to a penalty of €4,500 for defamation after having called a prominent Jewish television presenter a "secret donor of the child-murdering Israeli army".[102]
On 15 November 2007, an appellate court sentenced him to a €5,000 fine because he had characterized "the Jews" as "slave traders" after being attacked in le Théâtre de la Main d'Or.[103]
On 26 June 2008, he was sentenced in the highest judicial instance to a €7,000 fine for his characterization of Holocaust commemorations as "memorial pornography".[42]
On 27 February 2009, he was ordered to pay 75,000 Canadian dollars in Montreal to singer and actor Patrick Bruel for defamatory statements. He had called Bruel a "liar" and an "Israeli soldier".[104]
On 26 March 2009, Dieudonné was fined €1,000 and ordered to pay €2,000 in damages for having defamed Elisabeth Schemla, a Jewish journalist who ran the now-defunct Proche-Orient.info website. He declared on 31 May 2005 that the website wanted to "eradicate Dieudonné from the audiovisual landscape" and had said of him that "he's an anti-Semite, he's the son of Hitler, he will exterminate everyone".[105]
On 27 October 2009, he was sentenced to a fine of €10,000 for "public insult of people of Jewish faith or origin" related to his show with Robert Faurisson.[106]
On 8 June 2010, he was sentenced to a fine of €10,000 for defamation towards the International League against Racism and Anti-Semitism, which he had called "a mafia-like association that organizes censorship".[107]
On 10 October 2012, he was fined €887,135 for tax evasion. According to the French revenue service, Dieudonné failed to pay part of his taxes from 1997 to 2009.[citation needed].
On 12 February 2014, he was ordered by a court to withdraw two clips from a video posted on YouTube on 31 December 2013 on the grounds of incitement to ethnic or racial hatred, and crimes against humanity denial.[108]
More here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dieudon...7bala_M%27bala
Denying Holocaust is a little more than posting something regarding jews...
you have reading comprehension issue.... one is basically calling for killing jews, charlie never made crime apology, they don't incentivate anybody to kill jews, muslims or christians... not sure what you don't understand tbhQuote:
Originally Posted by lefty
You have understanding issues tbh
This is because France doesn't understand "freedom of speech" as 'Murica traditionally has. And I know exactly what lefty is saying. You're attributing an arbitrary 'intent' to the speech, but at the end of the day, it's just speech.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brazil
That's why in 'Murica, save very, very specific exceptions (like yelling 'fire' inside a theater, or 'bomb' inside an airport) it's not a crime for KKK agents or even Nazis to speak their minds.
Then again, they're different countries, with different constitutional values and laws. So it's perfectly fine for France to have their own set of rules.
^ well in America they can detain citizens indefinitely without any charge. Dozens of citizens are currently in custody this way.
that's even worse tbh. Sure this is happening all over Europe and Australia now, but the whole thing started in the US. So I have to agree. an american critizicing the French law is fucking stupid :lol
I fail to see how saying "I feel like Coulibaly" on Facebook can be determined as a call for killing Jews. He also killed a Muslim police officer - why not "anti-Muslim" or "anti-police"?
He was charged for "apologizing for terrorism" anyways, so nothing to do with the Jewish stuff people are claiming.
The ironic part is this is clearly an issue about free speech...since it's the actual state intervening, as opposed to crazy radicals. Let's not even talk about being charged and sentenced to a year in prison for mocking one of the officers...the hypocrisy is hilarious.
Quote:
Originally Posted by resistanze
Actually Coubaily murdered the black female police officer...so I guess the comedian was calling for racial violence against blacks :lol
Yeah, that's why I wrote 'traditionally'. The whole Patriot Act, extraordinary rendition, etc are a travesty to all that.Quote:
Originally Posted by hater
I guess you answered your own question. Lefty and I are arguing double standard... This law is not specific for protection of the jews but everybody, you don't make apologize for terrorism period. Now YOU think saying I feel like Coulibaly is not a call to kill jews, a French court will decide if it is or not. Dieudo has not been put in jail yet. That's justice work to decide.Quote:
Originally Posted by resistanze
I, for one, fail to see the double standard between charlie hebdo and dieudo... two situations totally different and not comparable as charlie never called to kill muslims or anybody else or never said holocaust did not exist.
Now obviously we can argue about is this french law an obstruction of freedom of speech and why it is ok to mock the pope but not ok to say jews are rats and deserve to die...Quote:
Originally Posted by resistanze
First of all, it is not a French specificity as most european countries have similar laws starting by germany, sweden and even Canada... I personnally think some elements of this law do not make sense, Dieudonne has to pay a fine for saying a league against racism is a mafia ? non sense imo. Now fighting against negotionism when you know a bit European history is ok in my book, fighting against opinion leaders incitivating crime is also ok in my book.
Some part of the anti semite law is over the top imo it creates martyr and the consequences are worst than if there was no law.
On a side note, patriot act law in US is 10 times worst for individual liberty than European laws fighting discrimination.