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What happened tonight?
I thought he played really well in his limited minutes.
He was part of the team that got the spurs back in the minute.
The spurs looked terrible and lacked ball movement until Manu came in the last 5 minutes of the third Quarter and Patty just started beasting.
Is Pop Experimenting with Joseph?
Needed D, went with Joseph. He provided it well.
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Originally Posted by DesignatedT
I don't know man..The spurs were killing the Bucks with Mills-Diaw-Manu-Tiago-KawhiQuote:
Originally Posted by DesignatedT
A few options:
- Shopping Joseph, since he fits horribly from an offensive standpoint when Parker or Ginobili are on the floor with him
- The team looks much better when Patty is on the floor rather than Tony, it's possible Pop is trying to keep the vultures(us) from eating Parker
Terrible 1st take.Quote:
Originally Posted by Malik Hairston
I think Pop is taking a detailed look at Tony, especially how he can most effectively use him given his new realities. Either that or just giving TP time on the court to figure things out.
This is the time to do it, tbh....
Quote:
Originally Posted by DesignatedT
Trade incoming
Quote:
Originally Posted by robdiaz2191
I like Joseph's improvement and he's grown on me, but he becomes extremely passive when he's on the floor with Parker or Ginobili, tbh..he doesn't shoot the 3 well, which is a necessity to play off Ginobili/Parker..Quote:
Originally Posted by robdiaz2191
I wouldn't mind keeping him over Parker, but obviously the Spurs won't, so he would fit much better on a team that needs a backup PG to take more shots and more of a load(a team like the Celtics, Hornets, Pistons, Heat, Pelicans, Kings, Wizards)..
The Pistons just lost Jennings for the year, and apparently Kemba Walker may be out for the year, too..those are 2 fringe playoff teams that could desperately use a PG like Joseph to play a larger role for them..
He has a friendly contract and it's probably more intelligent for the Spurs to keep him, but maybe they could package him for something useful..
Yep, I have a love/hate relationship with Joseph, but he's been fine this season. Even though his defense is inconsistent, I think he's a good option to have on the team when they need more defense. And especially when Enrique looks as bad as he has all season. I hope Belinelli is on the trading block instead, but Joseph probably has more value at this point, unfortunately.
CoJo is the defensive spark plug, Patty is the offensive spark plug. Tonight the team needed CoJo's defense.
Cojo really took some of Green minutes tonight... Both Gino (30 mins) and Tony (35 mins) are the guys that ate up most of Patty minutes in the 2nd half...
That's why I said, I think Pop is letting Tony get in game shape out there, or figuring out what can he do with him.
Trade Cojo for what though? I can't see somebody coming in midseason and getting meaningful minutes. I'd rather just keep him, Patty can't keep covering for Enrique's sorry ass all by himself tbh.
Im sorry but I really think the combo of mills/cojo is better then Parker. I know im getting hate for that lol
I'd rather keep him, too, especially since Parker is probably going to continue declining and/or get hurt, at some point..
I'm just saying, if one of those desperate teams comes running with a nice offer, I'd take it(although those teams don't have many interesting assets)..
What assets do Detroit and Charlotte have that could possibly entice the Spurs? They both have their first rounders for this year intact, but CoJo obviously isn't worth a mid-1st round / lottery pick.Quote:
Originally Posted by Malik Hairston
That's pretty much what a lot of Spurs fans feel nowadays.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chomag
They don't really have any nice assets, as I said above, but you never know, Charlotte has one of the worst front offices in the NBA:lol..Quote:
Originally Posted by Uriel
I'd take gerald Henderson in a heartbeat but not sure if Charlotte would find CJ worth it
CoJo for Neal. :cry Choo choo!
Maybe a bit of rest for him? He may be playing sore
Danny Green Spurs scapegoat.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElNono
Opposite point guards eat Tony alive...Matt loses his man...Bobo no boxout or rebounding...nothing happens...But after one Green's little mistake he's in Pop's doghouse.
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Originally Posted by Malik Hairston
I've said this a million times as well..Quote:
Originally Posted by wildchild
:tuQuote:
Originally Posted by apalisoc_9
You also said it in the post you quoted, so yea.Quote:
Originally Posted by apalisoc_9
Tonight was an exception Pop gave more minutes to Cojo to evade rust and loss of rhythm is not a big deal next game Patty will play more, thing is I prefer those 2 over Enquique.
Pop needs D, goes with Bonner and Parker in the 4th.....Quote:
Originally Posted by DesignatedT
Mills, due to his quickness/speed, is pesky on the defensive end.
Green's like Brent Barry in that respect - doghouse for any little mistake but Finley ....Quote:
Originally Posted by wildchild
cojo was +18 in 16 minutes and the second best one was Diaw with +8. It doesn't get more obvious than that.Quote:
Originally Posted by apalisoc_9
Right now, Patty and Cojo are playing better than TP and those who deny that are blind/biased. The problem is that even though many of you guys are having fun watching Parker play like shit (while of course denying having fun because well, you are "Spurs fan" above all, right?), the Spurs will not repeat with Patty, Cojo or 2015 Parker as their starting PG.
some games you get minutes - some you don't no big deal
Cojo made Green look passive on PG D against the Bucks. Pop 1st gave him Green minutes then after seeing the groundhog do his thing gave him Patty minutes in the 2nd half
I honestly think it's this. Pop seems to be trying his best to keep Parker from getting butthurt by seeing the team be more successful without him. I know Parker has rabid fanboys on here that will deny this, but his contract is becoming increasingly scarier by the day.Quote:
Originally Posted by Malik Hairston
Pop playing primarily CancerJo, barely win.Quote:
Originally Posted by apalisoc_9
Pop playing primarily MVPatty, win by 15+.
Pop is just letting other teams have a chance when he plays the scrubs like Boner and Cancer a lot.
If you "honestly" think that's it, you have failed.Quote:
Originally Posted by SupremeGuy
Pop knows better than crappy forum posters that get off from hating on a long-time Spur and legendary member of the Big 3, a sure-fire hall of famer. I guess the group here is just a lot younger than I thought - maybe ages 12-16.
In any event, Pop needs TP to find his speed and rhythym. I love Patty and Cory (Spurs to the core), but they lack the talent to start on a title team. Cory does not shoot well enough, and Patty does not dribble or penetrate well enough. The thing is, TP had more speed last night. At times it looked pretty good, notwithstanding all the BS in the game thread. On defense, some of the mishaps were not TP -- his job is to funnel guards to the bigs. Boris and Duncan however are too often slow to rotate or are out of position.
TP was bricking most of his shots. The bricks do not concern me. TP will find his shooting touch. The primary concern on all Spurfan minds should be that TP finds his speed. Pop knows it. The hate squad is basically just shitting out of their mouths at this point.
We are basically watching a player struggling with injuries. We went through the same process with TD from 2009-2011, and Manu for a similar period. At times there were posts on this forum proclaiming those players completely done. 4 years ago! People bitched about TP being done in 2011, and then he went on to a career renaissance. Look at Houston and Dwight -- they are bitching and moaning about the same thing.
Instead of hating TP, he really needs more chances so he can work through his issues. If PAFTO wants to trade him, it's their prerogative, but Pop plays the long-view (because he isn't a shallow impulsive Spurstalk poster) and knows right now TP needs more time to try to work things out.
This team gave us 5 last year. Everything else is gravy from here on out. It could be a lot worse. Many teams this year have fallen completely out of relevance due to injuries.
No one says that this version of Parker deserves his current contract. Right now, he can't shoot, can't pass and gets anally raped by the opposite PG... IMO, he's so far the worst PG on the Spurs roster.Quote:
Originally Posted by SupremeGuy
But let's say that some of us are not ready yet to throw under the bus a 12 seasons PG veteran with 6 AS selections, 1 FMVP and 4 rings who's just coming back from some weird injury.
Here's the thing about the point guards on this team, to me.
Positives for each:
Patty is a total spark plug, energy immediately and unflaggingly, and provides three point scoring from almost any position at the drop of the hat.
Cojo has matured into a player that can bring energy and has learned how to run the Spurs' offensive set. That last part is critical to remember. Pop DOES like his offensive sets run they way he wants them run. Plus, Cojo is the better defender than any of the rest, and has more length (which helps his defense).
Tony knows Pop's offense better than anyone not named Pop, Tim, or Manu. When he is out there, Pop knows that he is going to run the plays that Pop wants run when Pop wants them run. Very often that is not an uptempo game, because very often it is a matter of Tony and Tim (not the fastest duo in the world) running the offense between themselves.
Negatives:
Patty does not run the Spurs' offense as smoothly as the other two, or else his pace, which is frenetic at times, doesn't allow the normal offensive set to play out (unless he is paired with Manu - but in that instance, Manu is the real pg.) This can actually work to the team's advantage, because if he comes in after Tony and Tim, the defense is expecting more of the same at the same pace, and Patty just wipes them out in a blur. It can be highly effective, but from the coaches' standpoint, it is less controllable. For Pop, control is a pretty big deal.
Cojo is as tentative as people have pointed out, and can appear too hesitant. Whereas Tony runs plays on "auto pilot" and Patty runs whatever he runs at a speed that belies description, Cojo clearly thinks a lot on the court, and can take quite a while to decide what to do during a play.
Tony is, as has been pointed out ad nauseum, at least one if not two steps slower than he was two years ago. That loss of speed really messes up the execution of the offensive sets because they were designed to have his speed lose his defender going around screens. The inability to lose his defender impacts his ability to pass quickly enough OR score over a defender who is closer than he would have been a couple of years ago.
So...in terms of the three "point guards"....they each have strengths and weaknesses FOR THIS TEAM.
Bottom line, if Manu (who is admittedly the truly best point guard on the team) leaves after this season, which I expect, the Spurs are likely to keep both Cojo AND Mills as the second team guard unit, with Cojo playing point and Mills playing sg (although Mill's size on defense in that position is gonna be a real problem).
If Parker's form does not improve significantly, I expect him to see fewer and fewer minutes after the RR trip.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DesignatedT
good wrap upQuote:
Originally Posted by romain.star
:madrun Manutard :madrun shortbus :madrun Parkerhater :madrunQuote:
Originally Posted by romain.star
I'd only move Cory to Charlotte as part of a package for Vonleh. The Pistons would need to offer a first-round swap and Dinwiddle.Quote:
Originally Posted by Malik Hairston
That used to get me wild. Then to top if off, they let Brent go (Brent may have left by choice, not sure on the details) after he played his heart out in the 2008 WCF against the Lakers when Manu was injured throughout the series and bring back Finley instead. Finley then ends up bailing on the team and asks to be released halfway through the next season. I didn't even want him back, I wanted Barry back, but the Spurs stupidly bought Finley back. I was right about him, they were wrong on bringing him back.Quote:
Originally Posted by rmt
I'm not happy about Parker playing like a dog this season. Why would any Spurs fan be happy about that?Quote:
Originally Posted by romain.star
I hope it's just injuries and he can get back to his normal level. If not, we're in trouble. I'd also like to see him modify his game a bit and focus a little less on offense (scoring) and distribute the ball a bit more. Pick his spots on offense on when to attack the rim and spend a bit more of that energy and focus on the defensive end.
You need to check the facts, your memory is faulty.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice009
So Brent left by choice then? I think he did now that I think about it. I don't blame him though as he got treated like crap by Pop.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mel_13
You're also wrong about when Finley left.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice009
They should have let them both leave after 2008 as both were nearly done as NBA players, but Finley had much more left in the tank than Barry at that point.
Yeah, I remember now. It was 2010, right? I remember now as the Celtics had KG out of the playoffs in 2009, so it wasn't that year that Finley joined them. It was 2010 where Finely hitched onto the team and was on the Celtics playoff roster that made the finals. Correct me if I am wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mel_13
Did the Spurs offer Brent a contract at all to come back? If they were going to bring one of the two back, I would have preferred Barry (based on his 2008 WCFs play) over Finley, but I wouldn't have had a problem with letting both go if they were able to get a defensive 3 & D player to replace them with. After the 2009 season, I had had enough of the lack of defense at the wing spots with Finley and Roger Mason Jr.
Barry had a player option that he declined to exercise. He then signed with Houston at the beginning of July for 2yrs/4M. His one season with Houston was injury plagued, as his last with the Spurs had been, and he retired without playing the second year of his contract.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice009
The Spurs looked at other options, although the names escape me, before resigning Finley at the end of August. So, they didn't choose Finley over Barry, so much as they settled for Finley after Barry was no longer available, and after Manu went down in Beijing. Finley missed only one game in 2008-09 and played over 2000 minutes. Barry played less than 900 minutes in 56 games for Houston.
Parker and the Spurs staff know for years now that unless he dramatically adapts his game (pass-first, reliable outside shoot) to his decreasing physical abilities, he's gonna be an Iverson 2.0. So far, not so good...Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice009
Would you do a Joseph & Ayres for MCG swap with Charlotte.
After Kemba went down the Hornets could use Cory as a backup and we'd get a legit SF to eat up some minutes behind Kawhi (or if we use Leonard as a small ball PF). Throw in Ayres to make the $$$ work (and to get rid of him).
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine
Enrique's offensive struggles are secondary to his defensive ones. I don't even think Cory scored a single point and yet the improvement was immediate as soon as he checked in for Enrique. Subbing an above average defender for one of the worst defenders in the entire league is worth it regardless of what happens on the other end.
Patty should have been nominated for knighthood by Abbott not some Greek posing as an English Prince.
True that, no way an aboriginal man would get the nod under his watch. Some people made a very compelling case for Michael Long when it was first announced that they where bringing it back, got shot down in seconds.Quote:
Originally Posted by downunder
Cojo played the entire 4th quarter again. Honestly it does feel like he is being shopped unfortunately. :(
I hope CoJo isn't being shopped. Great guy to have around, especially since Enrique seems checked out. Could be they just want to continue managing Parker's minutes and CoJo gets more burn.