It's ok to hate Tony Parker

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Originally Posted by pgardn

Yes.

Parker was our PG.

So since you disagree, tell me who played PG game after game series after series?

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Nobody said we have another PG besides TP that can play 35 minutes a game. But TP should stop playing 35 minutes a game and play 18-20 min so backup PGs can play a little more.

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Originally Posted by K...

Why did people find it so easy to hate on guys like RJ, Blair, Bonner then? They were Spurs players too. '15 Enrique is just as bad if not worse than those guys.

uh, random scrubs, vs HOF pg for ten yrs? I don't know i find it easier to hate people i barely know than close family members. Do ya'll guys go home and shout "fuck you dad for getting old, your so useless, stop trying to hero-ball yourself"

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LMAO

Parker's injured. He really needs to be only playing 15 minutes at most these games. Its hard to hit jumpshots, especially when the injuries are to your legs and ankles.

Its good the Spurs are heading back home right now so Parker can get better treatment. And Parker needs to be facilitator. He has a few nice assist that help build the Spurs lead. It was when he tried play hero ball gain, he stagnate the Spurs offense again.

Tony needs to go watch some film of Stockton. That is exactly the way he should be playing. Looking to pass first and only shot when his defender completely drops off of him because of his passing.

The whole shtick against Parker is that he has always been overrated. Even though he has had the third-most successful career of any Spur and will only be passed in the near future by Kawhi.

OP has had an agenda against Parker for years and when Parker starts playing badly (granted that's been most of this season), he just starts spamming. Probably feels good after being shit on by Parker for all these years.

Parker has been legit terrible these two games and if he isn't healthy, he's hurting the team. But his importance to the system can't be overstated. He is every bit as important as Manu or Diaw.

The Parker threads are stupid at this point. The fact is the Spurs cannot win a championship without him playing better.

Patty and Cojo are both good for what they are. Patty will get exposed over the course of a PO series. Even with TP not playing well, teams still have to honor him, but they don't give any respect to Cojo at all.

Spurs should have won that game by 10 last night even with a one legged TP. Duncan missed some gimmies. They had poor defensive rebounding during the hack a Jordan, and they missed some wide open 3s late.

That said, when TP left the game for good, the offense completely bogged down. It was painful to watch. It was hard for the team to get into sets and with only one playmaker on the floor (Manu) the clips were able to double and get the ball out of his hands. Patty thankfully stepped up, but I would much rather have TP instituting the offense and handling the ball, but if he is that hurt they may not have a choice but to sit him for at least a game.

What a retarded thread

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Originally Posted by pgardn

Because he can dribble the f'n ball without getting smothered. Who else besides Gino could do this for 35 min?
On our team, who? This is the playoffs, blood is in the water, if you got a weakness, it WILL be exploited. Then add to this our passing game is made so much easier if a player can penetrate.

Honest to God you don't understand how difficult a task simply starting an offense can be on this level in the playoffs. Even Ginobili, the 2nd most competent handles on the team, usually begins the process after the ball crosses half court and the flow and positioning is semi-started.

If KL could steal the ball every time, or outlets were available like KL to Patty, we would not need a point. But what happens after an opponents made basket and the D is set up waiting on incompetence?

You really don't see this? Really?

And yes Parker can clearly over-dribble and take shots way too quickly imo. Because he can, he has the ability. This is decision making, this can clearly be a problem. Imo we don't have a guy over the long haul of a series that has the ability to simply get the offense started without frantic overuse of other players that are taken out of their comfort zone. It's this simple. The breakdown of the offense starts very early during the 24 seconds after a made basket. We have a much higher probability of getting a poor shot or not even getting a shot.

If you have a 35 min point for me game after game in the playoffs name him.
None of this may even matter if he is limping around. We can't squeeze by like last nite for a championship game after game, series after series imo.

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Well said. Parkers ability to get to the rim forces defenses to account for him. Because the opposing defense is forced to cut off his advances to the rim this creates open shots around the perimeter and sometimes even mismatches with the big screening for him. Manu is the only other person with similar ability. Watch how the defense reacts or how the offense flows when Mills is in there. Because mills doesn't have the same ability the opposing players dont
have to help. The offense is even more perimeter oriented in that the ball tends to pass more around the perimeter than actually passes going toward the rim. If Parker is unable to play then opposing defense may make adjustment toward Mills and I'm not sure if he can be effective as he would be coming off the bench.

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Originally Posted by Johnny RIngo

Manu and Tiago were our best players against Dallas. Parker was pretty bad in that series.

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Stop with your agenda. Games 5 and 7 say hello.

I'm with Nono on this one. If Parker is hurt and really can't play, he should sit. Having said that, there is no way the Spurs get far in these playoffs without Parker and Tiago playing significant minutes. As much as people want to hate Parker and say the Spurs could do better with Cojo/Mills at pg, they're completely missing the point. Look at it this way, the Spurs are like machine with moving parts. Each moving part has a specific purpose. Remove said part from the machine and the machine starts to break down. Now, do I think Parker is the team's first, second, third, or fourth best player? No, but I do think he is still an important component and him missing time really hurts the Spurs. Call it losing continuity or whatever, but there is no "beautiful game" without all parts working in synch.

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Originally Posted by weebo

I'm with Nono on this one. If Parker is hurt and really can't play, he should sit. Having said that, there is no way the Spurs get far in these playoffs without Parker and Tiago playing significant minutes. As much as people want to hate Parker and say the Spurs could do better with Cojo/Mills at pg, they're completely missing the point. Look at it this way, the Spurs are like machine with moving parts. Each moving part has a specific purpose. Remove said part from the machine and the machine starts to break down. Now, do I think Parker is the team's first, second, third, or fourth best player? No, but I do think he is still an important component and him missing time really hurts the Spurs. Call it losing continuity or whatever, but there is no "beautiful game" without all parts working in synch.

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says who?

TP will redeem himself.

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Originally Posted by robdiaz2191

says who?

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Says everyone who knows a thing or two about the Spurs and basketball, including Spurs players and coaches. PJ Carlesimo (closely associated with the Spurs) said this much this morning. So stop cheery picking arguments to fit your agenda. Also, if you had taken the time to read/comprehend my post you would understand the point I was trying to make, which happens to be that the Spurs need everyone to play to be successful in the long term because individually they don't match up talent wise vs some of the other teams in the league. Their depth and how they fit within the confines of their program is what makes them a championship team. You take that away from them you strip away an advantage.

Has it ever dawned on you why Pop always says the biggest thing for them going into the playoffs is health?

Parker is definitely useful to run the offense, but it's not really based on his actual ability anymore, he hasn't been a high-impact player since the 2013 Finals, tbh..he's useful in relation to the rest of the roster, as the Spurs are limited in options to run the offense outside of Ginobili, unfortunately..

As I've been saying for months, the role player version of Parker is fine, I don't mind if he gets the team into their sets, makes his open jump shots and occasionally throws in a floater/drive(which will be useful vs. teams with shitty PGs like the Rockets, especially)..I don't know why so many Spurs fans still discuss his role like it's 2013, though, the team didn't need him to do it for most of last year's playoffs:lol..

The unfortunate part about Parker is his salary, tbh..the Spurs are paying him 14 mil per year to play Pablo Prigioni's role, at this point, which is to bring the ball up and run the offense, while occasionally making the open jump shot..

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Originally Posted by pgardn

Because he can dribble the f'n ball without getting smothered. Who else besides Gino could do this for 35 min?
On our team, who? This is the playoffs, blood is in the water, if you got a weakness, it WILL be exploited. Then add to this our passing game is made so much easier if a player can penetrate.

Honest to God you don't understand how difficult a task simply starting an offense can be on this level in the playoffs. Even Ginobili, the 2nd most competent handles on the team, usually begins the process after the ball crosses half court and the flow and positioning is semi-started.

If KL could steal the ball every time, or outlets were available like KL to Patty, we would not need a point. But what happens after an opponents made basket and the D is set up waiting on incompetence?

You really don't see this? Really?

And yes Parker can clearly over-dribble and take shots way too quickly imo. Because he can, he has the ability. This is decision making, this can clearly be a problem. Imo we don't have a guy over the long haul of a series that has the ability to simply get the offense started without frantic overuse of other players that are taken out of their comfort zone. It's this simple. The breakdown of the offense starts very early during the 24 seconds after a made basket. We have a much higher probability of getting a poor shot or not even getting a shot.

If you have a 35 min point for me game after game in the playoffs name him.
None of this may even matter if he is limping around. We can't squeeze by like last nite for a championship game after game, series after series imo.

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What ability to penetrate? He doesn't have that anymore, regardless of whether you want to blame it on age or his long list of minor, fake injuries.

The Spurs won big games without him last year. They've won games without him going back all the way to the Claxton/Kerr days. You love to bring up the Mavs series but completely ignore the fact that they won Game 6 at OKC with CoJo. A game which required a big comeback, in arguably the most hostile arena where the Spurs hadn't won in who knows how many tries. They closed out Portland without him. Looked their best in the Finals when Patty was draining threes and Rique was simply in 'I gotta trust my teammates this series, Pop' mode. Dribbling the ball up the court isn't that fucking hard, which is about all that Enrique has done these past few games.

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Originally Posted by Johnny RIngo

http://s5.postimg.org/4sfcxz4pj/playoff_PER.png

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:vomit:

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Originally Posted by Expert

This is true when Tony was in his prime. Right now Tony can't hit a short range jumper, but he doesn't have a go to move, a plan b, to compensate for his inability to penetrate and score. No one cares if Tony penetrates if cannot score. Spurs need to have meaningful shot clock movement, not 18 seconds of Tony dribbling around until he finally dumps off to Tim.

The Spurs aren't the same as they were several years ago, but they are about the same as they were last year. Tony wasn't very important in the playoffs last year, and not really in the Finals either except that last 5 minutes when he had to get his.

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Einstein could not have said it any better.

I'll say it again. If the spurs can hyper motion away, if kawhi becomes Jordan, if Duncan plays like prime alpha, if gino grows a brain, if mills grows court vision.

Lots of if, but if not then hell yes we need orchestra conductor Parker. Even if it's a two man game, that's still offense and a 2 man game with two HOF teammates? I'll take that over watching cojo or patty hide on the 3pnt line in the halfcourt setting.

You hate dribble dribble dribble? Well you'll love pass pass pass. P.s., not the good kind, but the "I'm too scared to shoot and I can't dribble under stress" kind

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Originally Posted by K...

I'll say it again. If the spurs can hyper motion away, if kawhi becomes Jordan, if Duncan plays like prime alpha, if gino grows a brain, if mills grows court vision.

Lots of if, but if not then hell yes we need orchestra conductor Parker. Even if it's a two man game, that's still offense and a 2 man game with two HOF teammates? I'll take that over watching cojo or patty hide on the 3pnt line in the halfcourt setting.

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http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/imag...ine=1428602447

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Originally Posted by K...

You hate dribble dribble dribble? Well you'll love pass pass pass. P.s., not the good kind, but the "I'm too scared to shoot and I can't dribble under stress" kind

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WA68HU8wUMo

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Originally Posted by Malik Hairston

Parker is definitely useful to run the offense, but it's not really based on his actual ability anymore, he hasn't been a high-impact player since the 2013 Finals, tbh..he's useful in relation to the rest of the roster, as the Spurs are limited in options to run the offense outside of Ginobili, unfortunately..

As I've been saying for months, the role player version of Parker is fine, I don't mind if he gets the team into their sets, makes his open jump shots and occasionally throws in a floater/drive(which will be useful vs. teams with shitty PGs like the Rockets, especially)..I don't know why so many Spurs fans still discuss his role like it's 2013, though, the team didn't need him to do it for most of last year's playoffs:lol..

The unfortunate part about Parker is his salary, tbh..the Spurs are paying him 14 mil per year to play Pablo Prigioni's role, at this point, which is to bring the ball up and run the offense, while occasionally making the open jump shot..

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Once again, what we need from Parker is for him to bring the ball down the court and get the offense started. Our other guards get turtled up with moderate pressure. This is what I have been saying. Consistently. If we can get him healthy enough to actually penetrate off of set plays, all the better. Because no one besides Ginoboli can get this done. And he has declined as well.

And I am afraid Parker will not recover back to the 10 game winning streak form, first, because it's the playoffs, and the D is intensified. And second, he is hurt. So we really are hurting at PG.

I find the above perfectly reasonable.

^So you agree that he's basically Pablo Prigioni? You think a team can't win if Pablo Prigioni doesn't play? :lol

Anyone who compares Tony to Pablo Prigioni is just trolling.

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Originally Posted by FkLA

What ability to penetrate? He doesn't have that anymore, regardless of whether you want to blame it on age or his long list of minor, fake injuries.

The Spurs won big games without him last year. They've won games without him going back all the way to the Claxton/Kerr days. You love to bring up the Mavs series but completely ignore the fact that they won Game 6 at OKC with CoJo. A game which required a big comeback, in arguably the most hostile arena where the Spurs hadn't won in who knows how many tries. They closed out Portland without him. Looked their best in the Finals when Patty was draining threes and Rique was simply in 'I gotta trust my teammates this series, Pop' mode. Dribbling the ball up the court isn't that fucking hard, which is about all that Enrique has done these past few games.

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You have no Fckn clue.
none...

You put Chris Paul on Patty after a made basket while Paul is not exhausted 1st quarter and you are asking for a slaughter that is completely unfair to Patty. Get this through your skull, Patty ain't a point. Patty needs to be down the court waiting for things to set up so he can score, because this is what Patty does, this is his niche. Open court breakout hit the three; Set play, corners and top of the key. Patty is a scorer, not an organizer.

We need Parker to get in the lane and break down defenses. The Spurs don't have anyone else on the roster that can handle and break down a defense. Parker got in the lane yesterday, and it caused some problems for the Clippers. Even if Parker doesn't finish, just getting in the lane means Jordan has to step up and challenge, which opens things up for Tim and others in the paint and also opens things up for three point shooters. Problem is, if he can't move effectively, he can't get in the paint. He may need to rest a couple games, but we don't have time to rest him. That Sunday game is going to be really tough for both teams. Not a full two day recovery before that Sunday 2:30 tip off.

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Originally Posted by FkLA

^So you agree that he's basically Pablo Prigioni? You think a team can't win if Pablo Prigioni doesn't play? :lol

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So if you are telling me that Pablo is a better point than, Corey, Mills, yes.
Right now in Parker's current condition yes. If Pablo is better than our other points.

We are in a mess if Parker does not stop "faking" injuries as you so knowingly claim.


Christ...