yoff Buzz: Spurs aim to bring back Duncan, Leonard; pursue Aldridge Ken Berger / NBA

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Originally Posted by TD 21

No offense, but these are extremely outdated takes. Green and Splitter are "role players", to be sure, but elite ones that would be impossible for this team to replace.

The front office knows this and I trust are intelligent enough to realize that, unless someone comes close to or flat out offers Green the max or blows them away with an offer for Splitter, both need to be retained.

I enjoy watching a focused Diaw play as much as anyone and am as frustrated as anyone with Splitter's lack of durability and occasional bouts of soft play, but this isn't about who you like better or like watching more. This is about what's best for the team, in the present and future.

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May be outdated, but even Pop said there will be some retooling so my bet is Tiago will have to go and Pop is doing mind games with Danny to keep him while spending as little as possible.
Splitter is totally replaceable, you have guys like Koufos or Lopez, Tiago had 4 bad playoffs years and just 1 good, the best for the team is to let him go I dont see him getting better only more injury prone and unreliable as the time goes on.

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Originally Posted by Richie

My point is that you need to find those guys before they prove themselves. Butler was the #30 pick, Middleston #46, Green #46, Matthews went undrafted. Obviously it's not easy and I don't want to lose Green as he fulfills an important role for a contender, a team like Memphis would kill for him, but he's not a piece like Leonard who we absolutely have to keep for the future and I feel that's how he is often portrayed.

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I agree, but there's also the "fitting into the system" factor, which is always a process in San Antonio, it's rarely an immediate fit..this team is still trying to win ASAP with Duncan's upcoming retirement and Parker's progressive decline, I assume..

As one of Green's biggest fans here, I'd be pretty surprised if he gets paid enough for the Spurs to lose him..I think he'll receive a fair contract from the Spurs, similar to what Ariza got(similar impact and flaws) + a boost based on the projected increase in the salary cap..maybe a team like the Knicks will overpay him, but that's a disaster waiting to happen, and I think Green realizes that, despite the power that money possesses in controlling somebody:lol..

If green would sign a three year deal with a play opt out next year he could bet on himself and Spurs could pay more next year

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Originally Posted by DPG21920

TP can't play any worse than this year. Even with that, Spurs were so close to beating LAC and would have beat HOU and been to their 4th straight WCF.

Even if TP stays exactly the same as he did in the playoffs, but Tiago gets healthy & the Spurs add LMA (while keeping Danny) how are they not legit? That's assuming TP gets no better at all.

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His decline has been progressively severe, tbh..look at his numbers from 2013 to 2014 to 2015..severe, progressive decline in all 3 years..I don't think it should be assumed that he can't play as bad as he did this year, tbh..

Spurs are in an impossible position with Parker..they aren't going to trade him or bench him, because of his stature in the organization, and their backup PG isn't conventional, leaving Parker as the only reliable ball-handler on the team..unfortunately, he doesn't really understand how to be a role player, he's still attempting to play the same style as his prime, which clearly isn't working..

They won in 2014 with Ginobili having a resurgence, the best year he had in 4 or 5 seasons, but that was a unique case with Manu's ability to play the facilitator role..where do the Spurs find another playmaker to relieve Parker? The only viable option, at this point, is to trade Mills, unfortunately..

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Originally Posted by Malik Hairston

His decline has been progressively severe, tbh..look at his numbers from 2013 to 2014 to 2015..severe, progressive decline in all 3 years..I don't think it should be assumed that he can't play as bad as he did this year, tbh..

Spurs are in an impossible position with Parker..they aren't going to trade him or bench him, because of his stature in the organization, and their backup PG isn't conventional, leaving Parker as the only reliable ball-handler on the team..unfortunately, he doesn't really understand how to be a role player, he's still attempting to play the same style as his prime, which clearly isn't working..

They won in 2014 with Ginobili having a resurgence, the best year he had in 4 or 5 seasons, but that was a unique case with Manu's ability to play the facilitator role..where do the Spurs find another playmaker to relieve Parker? The only viable option, at this point, is to trade Mills, unfortunately..

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All else being equal, if we can only keep one of Mills or Cory I'd rather keep Cory. He's a better point guard than Mills, a (marginally) better defender and is actually a very under appreciated shooter. The kid nailed 48% in 12-13 in the D League from 3, but he's never been given the green light by Pop in the NBA. He's also an elite mid range shooter, hitting 47% the past 2 years. Mills is obviously more instant offense, but in a post-Manu world I prefer Joseph.

The salaries make it more complicated but Mills also has more value on the trade block and I wonder how much Cory will get this off-season. Will anyone give him more than the minimum? Will he even get an offer in restricted free agency?

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Originally Posted by Malik Hairston

His decline has been progressively severe, tbh..look at his numbers from 2013 to 2014 to 2015..severe, progressive decline in all 3 years..I don't think it should be assumed that he can't play as bad as he did this year, tbh..

Spurs are in an impossible position with Parker..they aren't going to trade him or bench him, because of his stature in the organization, and their backup PG isn't conventional, leaving Parker as the only reliable ball-handler on the team..unfortunately, he doesn't really understand how to be a role player, he's still attempting to play the same style as his prime, which clearly isn't working..

They won in 2014 with Ginobili having a resurgence, the best year he had in 4 or 5 seasons, but that was a unique case with Manu's ability to play the facilitator role..where do the Spurs find another playmaker to relieve Parker? The only viable option, at this point, is to trade Mills, unfortunately..

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I don't think TP can decline worse than the playoffs. Just impossible. There is no worse. Even with that, Spurs were still this close to making a run even with essentially no Manu either. Unless Kawhi regresses or Tiago is injured, there is no way IMO that adding LA to that mix doesn't keep the Spurs as contenders even with a crappy TP.

Agree a playmaker is an issue, but that's assuming TP plays horrific. If he responds at all, it's not as big of an issue. Still one that needs to be addressed, but Mills isn't a creator anyways so that wouldn't hurt the situation. CJ would have to step up and Spurs would have to find a creator.

Joseph also looks a lot better when he plays without Manu and Parker, as he's much more aggressive, as we saw in the 1st half of this season..he loses all aggression when he's playing with a primary ball-handler, for whatever reason..

I like Mills more than Joseph, but logically, it makes more sense to move Patty and retain Cojo..Spurs need another ball-handler/playmaker to relieve Parker and replace some of Ginobili's ability, and it would also allow them to keep Green(from a personnel standpoint) and look for a backup SG that can be a spark off the bench and create for himself(I don't have anybody in mind, but a Rodney Stuckey type, although the Spurs obviously wouldn't be able to afford Stuckey himself)..

As much as I love Mills, he doesn't really fit on this team with Parker's decline(Spurs obviously won't trade Tony, unfortunately) and Ginobili's potential retirement..

Regarding Joseph, I live in Toronto and there's been some hype about bringing him home..the Toronto media doesn't really have legit connections to the front office, thus it should be taken with a grain of salt when they discuss these types of things, but the fans are mostly in favor of it, and the front office needs to make moves to get the fanbase excited after 2 embarrassing playoff exits..Ujiri is going to be re-tooling the team, and they need to replace Vasquez after he disappointed, once again, when the games mattered..

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Originally Posted by Richie

My point is that you need to find those guys before they prove themselves. Butler was the #30 pick, Middleton #46, Green #46, Korver #51, Matthews went undrafted, these guys are out there to be had. Obviously it's not easy and I don't want to lose Green as he fulfills an important role for a contender, a team like Memphis would kill for him, but he's not a piece like Leonard who we absolutely have to keep for the future and I feel that's how he is often portrayed.

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I don't think anyone says DG is an MVP type player. What people are saying is that he's pretty rare and when you have a DG no need to lose him when you can keep him and make everything (competiting now/future) easier.

Spurs really messed themselves over giving Parker that contract. Why in the world were they in a rush to give him it when everyone knows he's not going anywhere. Why not take care of players you're not sure of first - like Leonard and Green. Their only hope to keep the team intact (except for LMA/Splitter) is to pray that Duncan and Manu sign dirt cheap contracts.

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Originally Posted by Richie

All else being equal, if we can only keep one of Mills or Cory I'd rather keep Cory. He's a better point guard than Mills, a (marginally) better defender and is actually a very under appreciated shooter. The kid nailed 48% in 12-13 in the D League from 3, but he's never been given the green light by Pop in the NBA. He's also an elite mid range shooter, hitting 47% the past 2 years. Mills is obviously more instant offense, but in a post-Manu world I prefer Joseph.

The salaries make it more complicated but Mills also has more value on the trade block and I wonder how much Cory will get this off-season. Will anyone give him more than the minimum? Will he even get an offer in restricted free agency?

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I disagree. Mills is clutch in the playoffs while Joseph looked reluctant to shoot (much less his inability to hit a 3 - can't have 2 PGs unable to hit 3s). Teams will sag off Joseph, but Mills requires attention. He cannot be left alone at the 3 point line.

I'd rather keep the team as is than get LMA and lose Green. The perimeter defense would be horrific with only Leonard - Parker, Belli, Mills and Manu - yikes. The upgrade in offense from the bigs is not enough to give up on perimeter defense in this perimeter-oriented league. Spurs have enough offense if everyone is healthy.

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Originally Posted by Malik Hairston

It's alarming that Spurs fans are delusional enough to ignore the massive, cancerous tumor at the PG position that will make it extremely difficult to build a contender, going forward, even if they add Aldridge:lol..let alone adding a playmaking 2-guard that won't fit next to Parker..

It's nice to discuss, but thinking about the future when Parker is still on the books for 3 more years is just silly..

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http://versedonline.com/wp-content/u...RONT-COVER.jpg

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Originally Posted by Malik Hairston

Joseph also looks a lot better when he plays without Manu and Parker, as he's much more aggressive, as we saw in the 1st half of this season..he loses all aggression when he's playing with a primary ball-handler, for whatever reason..

I like Mills more than Joseph, but logically, it makes more sense to move Patty and retain Cojo..Spurs need another ball-handler/playmaker to relieve Parker and replace some of Ginobili's ability, and it would also allow them to keep Green(from a personnel standpoint) and look for a backup SG that can be a spark off the bench and create for himself(I don't have anybody in mind, but a Rodney Stuckey type, although the Spurs obviously wouldn't be able to afford Stuckey himself)..

As much as I love Mills, he doesn't really fit on this team with Parker's decline(Spurs obviously won't trade Tony, unfortunately) and Ginobili's potential retirement..

Regarding Joseph, I live in Toronto and there's been some hype about bringing him home..the Toronto media doesn't really have legit connections to the front office, thus it should be taken with a grain of salt when they discuss these types of things, but the fans are mostly in favor of it, and the front office needs to make moves to get the fanbase excited after 2 embarrassing playoff exits..Ujiri is going to be re-tooling the team, and they need to replace Vasquez after he disappointed, once again, when the games mattered..

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Random, but how long have you lived in Toronto for? Never knew you lived here, you like the city?

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Originally Posted by rmt

I disagree. Mills is clutch in the playoffs while Joseph looked reluctant to shoot (much less his inability to hit a 3 - can't have 2 PGs unable to hit 3s). Teams will sag off Joseph, but Mills requires attention. He cannot be left alone at the 3 point line.

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Joseph CAN hit 3's, he was around league average this year in the NBA and in 12-13 he hit 48% from 3 in the D-League over 26 games. He only shot 0.7% worse than Mills this season in the NBA, but on far fewer attempts. Joseph is also one of the best mid range shooters in the league over the past 2 years, he shot 47% outside of 12ft last season for 16th in the league (100+ attempts), the same percentage as Dirk. That's ahead of Kawhi (45.5%), Parker (42%) who each took triple the number of attempts.

I'm not saying Joseph is as good a shooter as Mills, but he is a good shooter. He actually shot 41% from 3 in spot ups compared to Patty only hitting 35%, it's the pull up 3's where Patty is much better hitting 32% to Corys 20%, although Patty hit an insane 48% in 13-14.

This is ridiculous I'd rather make a run at Monta Ellis than bring back Green for $10 million +

What I'd enjoy this off season:

Trade Mills for Chicago #22 - Take Justin Anderson
Draft Delon Wright with #26 (or another big man)
Give Splitter away
Sign Joseph for $3m
Bring back Timmy for $6m
Sign Aldridge for the max ($18m)
Sign Kawhi for the max
Sign Green for $10m
Sign Manu for the Room Exception ($2.5m)

Parker/Joseph/Wright
Green/J.Anderson/Manu
Kawhi/K.Anderson
Aldridge/Diaw
Duncan

Find a backup center for the minimum, Baynes back perhaps? Alternatively if Manu retires we can keep Mills, give Joseph the Room Exception and draft a big at #26. Bet none of that happens.

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Originally Posted by Knoxxx

This is ridiculous I'd rather make a run at Monta Ellis than bring back Green for $10 million +

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Wow. This is the difference between players being in love with "talent" vs winning ability/fit. Not only that, but paying DG 10M vs Monta is a way different due to the salary cap ramifications. You can get Monta for 10M or you can get LMA and Green for 10M.

There are so many if's and it's so hard right now to see the big picture, but if the Spurs could end up with Tim/LMA/Tiago what a perfect front court. Holy cow. Especially if Green/Kawhi are both still in SA.

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Originally Posted by Malik Hairston

Wes Matthews was widely expected to receive a massive contract prior to his career-altering injury, it's not really a fair comparison, I don't think anybody thinks Green is as good as Matthews was prior to his injury..same with Khris Middleton, widely expected to receive a massive contract, too, substantially more than Green..The reality is that those types of players are scarce..you aren't going to find many 2-way wing guys that can create for themselves, there are only a handful(Jimmy Butler, Klay Thompson, Paul George if he's still right, Middleton, Kawhi) and most of them are going to receive max or near-max contracts, at this point..with the progression of advanced metrics and raw numbers becoming an antiquated method of assessing a player's worth, the least valuable players in the NBA have become volume scorers that only give you production on 1 side of the ball..Even 1-dimensional defensive players like Tony Allen have become obsolete, as well, as we saw once the Warriors adjusted and began guarding him with Andrew Bogut, which is pathetic:lol..I agree with your overall premise that Green is a better fit on a team with superior creators than the Spurs currently possess, I've mentioned it several times since the Spurs were eliminated..however, what can the Spurs do? They can't sign a viable 2-way SG/SF replacement, because there aren't any realistic options that will be cheaper..if you sign an offensive-minded SG, how do you start him next to the ball-dominant, no-defense playing Parker in the backcourt? The team already struggles to get Kawhi enough looks, it would only get worse by adding another high-volume player..adding another offensive-minded wing player, especially to replace Green, would also imply that Kawhi will be forced to exert more energy defensively, which will naturally impede his offensive responsibility, too..Your point is valid, the Spurs do need playmaking, especially with Ginobili's impending retirement, but they're in an extremely difficult position with Parker's decline..

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simple solution: TRADE PARKER NOW

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Originally Posted by Malik Hairston

It's alarming that Spurs fans are delusional enough to ignore the massive, cancerous tumor at the PG position that will make it extremely difficult to build a contender, going forward, even if they add Aldridge:lol..let alone adding a playmaking 2-guard that won't fit next to Parker..

It's nice to discuss, but thinking about the future when Parker is still on the books for 3 more years is just silly..

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This is true.

It's like arguing over which drapes match the furniture when the flooring is dilapidated and unstable.

It's like a fat chick putting on lipstick and spending two hours on her hair but no time on the treadmill as if her hair is going to get her there.

It's like finding shit on your burrito at Taco Bell and bitching that they didn't put the black olive on it.

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Originally Posted by DPG21920

A perfect off season would be Spurs getting LMA while having Tim return and keeping Kawhi/Green/Tiago.

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Yep, so that means no way in hell it will happen.

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Originally Posted by DPG21920

There are so many if's and it's so hard right now to see the big picture, but if the Spurs could end up with Tim/LMA/Tiago what a perfect front court. Holy cow. Especially if Green/Kawhi are both still in SA.

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That is probably not possible if Green and Kawhi re-sign. It is the perfect wish I know but I seriously doubt that happens.

The issues last year weren't offense. They were defensively. How does LA help that? This seems like RJ 2.0. We need another 20PPG scorer so we'll sacrifice our defense.

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Originally Posted by DPG21920

Wow. This is the difference between players being in love with "talent" vs winning ability/fit. Not only that, but paying DG 10M vs Monta is a way different due to the salary cap ramifications. You can get Monta for 10M or you can get LMA and Green for 10M.

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Thanks for calling him out. People on here are so clueless, they think it's a friggen video game without rules (both in terms of wanting guys who play well when you hold the turbo button + ignoring CBA restrictions).

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Originally Posted by Richie

What I'd enjoy this off season:

Trade Mills for Chicago #22 - Take Justin Anderson
Draft Delon Wright with #26 (or another big man)
Give Splitter away
Sign Joseph for $3m
Bring back Timmy for $6m
Sign Aldridge for the max ($18m)
Sign Kawhi for the max
Sign Green for $10m
Sign Manu for the Room Exception ($2.5m)

Parker/Joseph/Wright
Green/J.Anderson/Manu
Kawhi/K.Anderson
Aldridge/Diaw
Duncan

Find a backup center for the minimum, Baynes back perhaps? Alternatively if Manu retires we can keep Mills, give Joseph the Room Exception and draft a big at #26. Bet none of that happens.

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Is this even possible, in theory? If we make the signings / trades you propose, I don't think we'll have enough cap space to offer LMA a max contract.

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Originally Posted by DPG21920

A perfect off season would be Spurs getting LMA while having Tim return and keeping Kawhi/Green/Tiago.

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How is this possible?