yoff Buzz: Spurs aim to bring back Duncan, Leonard; pursue Aldridge Ken Berger / NBA

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Originally Posted by Seventyniner

Two things about this step:
a) What's the purpose of cheaping out on Aldridge? I mean why not offer the full max without incentives? Some players would be insulted by being offered less than the max. In fact, if Aldridge goes the S&T route, he might insist on the 5-year $107M deal. Both start at $18.6M.
b) What would Portland get back in this deal? I doubt the Hawks will give up more than #15 for Diaw and Mills. Maybe that pick and perhaps the Spurs' #26 would get routed to Portland?

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a) That's the max the Spurs can pay by trading those three players. If they added Splitter instead of Diaw, then they would be a lot closer. Also, Aldridge can only get a five-year deal if he stays in Portland.
b) The Spurs would offer the incentive. A first or potentially two. They wouldn't offer 26, though, since they would have already used it and since they need the cheap depth in this scenario.

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Originally Posted by Chinook

Also, Aldridge can only get a five-year deal if he stays in Portland.

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I forgot that the rule on that had changed.

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Originally Posted by Richie

I honestly have to question how much he cares about money anymore if it means a shot at another ring. Dude has made over $230m in salary alone, plus more in endorsements, is he really going to care about a couple of million here or there if it's the difference between bringing in a premier free agent?

I think Pop and RC should sit down and tell him to write to numbers on a piece of paper. The first is what he wants if we can get an all star, and the second if we strike out. Lets say that means if we can get Aldridge he would settle for $5-6m, if not we'll bring back the whole group and give him $15m.

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I see where your coming from, and by no means do I think Duncan is strictly motivated by some financial interest. However, I do think money still plays a role in equation. He has made a considerable amount over his career but remember 1/2 that is gone in taxes, another $20 mil potentially lost by bad investments with a crooked financial adviser, his divorce settlement, NBA lifestyle for 18 years, ect. He still probably has a considerable amount of money, but probably less than the average person would believe given his past salary.

Looking at it from another angle though, I think the contract offer is an important sign of support from the FO and status within the team and league. Nobody wants to be undervalued at what they do, especially when other people who contribute less would be getting more. Maybe that's just me projecting, or maybe Duncan's truly a saint, but I have a hard time seeing him being ok with Parker, Green, Kawhi, and potentially LA making double/triple his salary, plus Splitter/Diaw both making more than him while he is essentially settling for the MLE.

As for the winning aspect, after seeing his reaction in Game 7 of the 2013 Finals, I have no doubt he wants to win as much as anyone in the league. But I also think hes out there just enjoying the time he has left, and isn't necessarily interested in bringing in talent just for the sake of bringing it in. It would have to be the right all-star or group of role players. It seems he has grown pretty close with this group, and as I alluded to in my first post, its hard to justify taking a drastic paycut when your losing that close-knit group and bringing in other people without the certainty that it will work out.

in Portland he would get 5 unless spurs sign and trade splitter to them
or in sa he signs 4 with op opt in 2 and get bigger max then

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Originally Posted by FromWayDowntown

I haven't bothered to try to understand the tax implications of the impending spike in the salary cap, but I have wondered if teams will be willing to take on a short-term, low-end tax bill this summer with the knowledge that the cap will increase dramatically (as, I assume, will the tax thresholds) and move them out of the tax by the summer of 2016 (and save them from having to face the repeater penalties and such).

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I was wondering the same thing. I know it's easy for us to sit here and spend other people's money, but I'd venture that the Spurs probably won't let a single year's tax for exceeding the cap prevent them from trying to build the best team possible, knowing that they can fall back within the cap next year (presumably). They are one of the best teams at thinking long-term, so it wouldn't surprise me to see them building their roster to be ready of the summer of '16 changes rather than focusing solely on this summer's cap restrictions.

Agreed EhJ. I don't think a one year tax is an issue, even for Spurs. I also don't think it's likely they pay tax to build the team they want.

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Originally Posted by DPG21920

How are you using the MLE when it appears you are S&T Aldridge w cap space (Boris/Mills = 10M)

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Originally Posted by Chinook

a) That's the max the Spurs can pay by trading those three players. If they added Splitter instead of Diaw, then they would be a lot closer. Also, Aldridge can only get a five-year deal if he stays in Portland.
b) The Spurs would offer the incentive. A first or potentially two. They wouldn't offer 26, though, since they would have already used it and since they need the cheap depth in this scenario.

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Chinook - this was intended for you. What am I missing?

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Originally Posted by DPG21920

Chinook - this was intended for you. What am I missing?

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Diaw, Mills and Williams will make about $12 Million. CBA rules say you can take back $5 Million more than you send out, so the Spurs can only offer LA $17 Million. But if he takes it, they would never have to drop below the cap, and they would keep their exceptions and Bird rights.

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Originally Posted by Chinook

Diaw, Mills and Williams will make about $12 Million. CBA rules say you can take back $5 Million more than you send out, so the Spurs can only offer LA $17 Million. But if he takes it, they would never have to drop below the cap, and they would keep their exceptions and Bird rights.

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Ahh, I missed the Williams part. Appreciate it.

If Duncan is willing to take $5 Million, then my scenario is a lot more plausible. Or if he and Manu are willing to split $7-8 Million.

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Originally Posted by Chinook

If Duncan is willing to take $5 Million, then my scenario is a lot more plausible. Or if he and Manu are willing to split $7-8 Million.

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That is the baseline I've been using in either scenario (over the cap, using cap space). If he's willing to do that (not expected) that goes a long way. Especially in the cap space route.

I personally hate that team that Chinook put together a few posts above. Trading Mills & Diaw away would be a huge mistake just to get a career loser like Aldridge smh.

I wouldn't be surprised if TD is willing to take the vet min but that PATFO feel that would be disrespectful to TD given what he has done for the team. Hopefully they all come to the same conclusion that the team needs outweigh perceived TD needs in needing to be paid a higher salary so they can bring on talent without gutting the team.

Duncan Named All-NBA third team!

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Originally Posted by Mugen

I personally hate that team that Chinook put together a few posts above. Trading Mills & Diaw away would be a huge mistake just to get a career loser like Aldridge smh.

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By all means, post your own idea. I think that's easily the best the Spurs could do with what they have to work with. But obviously, I don't really know how it's going to shake out. I was going to start a Mock Off-Season thread, but I didn't want it derailed with Anti-Parker nonsense.

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Originally Posted by Chinook

By all means, post your own idea. I think that's easily the best the Spurs could do with what they have to work with. But obviously, I don't really know how it's going to shake out. I was going to start a Mock Off-Season thread, but I didn't want it derailed with Anti-Parker nonsense.

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no offense tbh. i just dont like that team. it's a departure from what's made the Spurs great these last couple of seasons. i haven't really sat back and analyzed what the Spurs' options are this offseason but LMA and Gasol is a long shot and I'm fine with that. I'm of the mind that this team doesn't need wholesale changes to compete. Just a few tweaks plus a long summer should help them give it one last go next year.

The team will be irrelevant as far as championship contending goes once Duncan retires anyways.

vet min would be a slap in the face of Timmy and Manu tbh. I hope it doesn't come down to that.

Same with Danny taking a paycut. Get your money, you've earned it.

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Originally Posted by Mugen

I personally hate that team that Chinook put together a few posts above. Trading Mills & Diaw away would be a huge mistake just to get a career loser like Aldridge smh.

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Wow - really? I love Boris & Patty but if you can bring back the same team less Mills (because you're swapping Boris with LA) how is that not amazing? Unless you think Mills is so important that he's worth more than the gap between LA & Boris.

Boris was a loser too before the Spurs. You put LA on a team where he doesn't have to be alpha and that's amazing.

I just don't see why ATL would trade their pick for those 3.

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Originally Posted by Mugen

no offense tbh. i just dont like that team. it's a departure from what's made the Spurs great these last couple of seasons. i haven't really sat back and analyzed what the Spurs' options are this offseason but LMA and Gasol is a long shot and I'm fine with that. I'm of the mind that this team doesn't need wholesale changes to compete. Just a few tweaks plus a long summer should help them give it one last go next year.

The team will be irrelevant as far as championship contending goes once Duncan retires anyways.

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No offense taken, btb. As I said, I wanted to do mock off-seasons, but there'd be too many "trade Parker" or "it doesn't matter as long as Parker is on the team" posts, and I can't do anything about them on the general forum.

I don't think that the roster I proposed is a departure from what's been working more than it has to be with Manu and Tim getting older and Parker getting more ineffective. The Spurs need a blue-chip offensive player, and they get one with Aldridge. Both the SL and the bench have great balance with defenders at both levels and smart offensive guys.

I also think getting the 15th pick would be a huge boost, especially if the right guy falls. I don't know if Portis is that guy, but he looks like he'll just be a nice, solid big in the pros. He goes well with Baynes as part of a post-Duncan bench. Obviously, if the Spurs land a true impact player at that spot, then it would go down as one of the best off-seasons in league history.

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Originally Posted by DPG21920

Wow - really? I love Boris & Patty but if you can bring back the same team less Mills (because you're swapping Boris with LA) how is that not amazing? Unless you think Mills is so important that he's worth more than the gap between LA & Boris.

Boris was a loser too before the Spurs. You put LA on a team where he doesn't have to be alpha and that's amazing.

I just don't see why ATL would trade their pick for those 3.

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I think that if the Hawks can't trade up, then they will trade down. They don't need middling talent anymore than anyone else does. However, my concern would be that Bud and Ferry know the Spurs' scouting habits. They probably have the same players on their target list. If they need Spurs like someone at 15, the Hawks probably do too. And if they think he can be the next Leonard, then they may not want to give up the pick, even for those three guys.

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Originally Posted by Chinook

By all means, post your own idea. I think that's easily the best the Spurs could do with what they have to work with. But obviously, I don't really know how it's going to shake out. I was going to start a Mock Off-Season thread, but I didn't want it derailed with Anti-Parker nonsense.

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This'd be great, no doubt there'd be anti-Parker posts and bullshit, but at least there'd be one thread to talk about serious things in, instead of the whole first page filled with Harlem and Harlem 2 threads of nonsense.

As for your scenario, I like it, even though I'd prefer keeping Diaw over Splitter because of his playmaking, especially if Manu retires, though I realize Splitter would be the better fit on paper. Are you that high on Portis at 15 though with Kaminsky, Dekker and Anderson likely on board at that point?

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Originally Posted by Chinook

Ideal off-season:

1) Agree to trade Diaw, Williams and Mills to Atlanta for 15.

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Atlanta can't take that amount of salary. They're under the cap but have holds on Millsap and Carroll they won't renounce.

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Originally Posted by Richie

Atlanta can't take that amount of salary. They're under the cap but have holds on Millsap and Carroll they won't renounce.

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It should actually be pretty close. Neither of those Hawks players will have the cap holds that reflect their eventual salaries. It's close enough where the Spurs might have to give some cash for a team like Philly to absorb William's contract to make up the difference.

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Originally Posted by Chinook

It should actually be pretty close. Neither of those Hawks players will have the cap holds that reflect their eventual salaries. It's close enough where the Spurs might have to give some cash for a team like Philly to absorb William's contract to make up the difference.

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I don't think it's that close at all, Antic, Millsap and Carroll have a combined cap hold of $17m, combined with their $42m committed it puts them at $59m and only $8m room. Waiving Antic and Muscala (50% gtd) only gives them $10m in space and I don't see them doing that.

I would love to trade them Mills + #26 for #15, but with Teague and Schroeder they have no need for him.

From Dallasbasketball.com:

Take this for what it's worth, but a friend of mine works at a megachurch in Carrollton who had an event last night in which Alridge was in attendance. They had him back in the green room and my buddy, who is a huge Mavs fan, actually had the balls to ask some pretty straightforward questions and got some surprisingly straightforward answers. Here are some of the highlights from his answers:

- Said his preferences are to come play in either Dallas or LA. However, said he would NOT play with Rondo.

- Said he just finished building a house in Dallas that took him 3 years.

- Said while he would love to play in Dallas, he's worried that it would be awkward with Dirk coming off the bench behind him.

- Said he thinks Lebron is great, but Kobe is on another level and he has always had a very deep regard for him.

- Was asked who the toughest guy he's ever had to guard is and his response was "Tim Duncan, by far".

I'm pretty good friends with this guy and he would have no reason to lie or embellish this story to me, so it gives me a little hope to know that Dallas is a frontrunner. Also leaves me a little worried that LA will no doubt land Okafor or Towns and be able to offer a max deal to Aldridge and that he has such a deep regard for Kobe. Sounds like the only thing Dallas has going is the fact that he is from here and lives here during the offseason. Was a little surprised that Aldridge wasn't more tight-lipped about the situation as players during this time usually are.