After Four Games: Scouting the 2015 Spurs Summer League Team

-It's difficult to get a good read on Kyle Anderson. I'd say about 50 percent of the time through the first four games he has been underwhelming, 30 percent of the time he's been decent and 20 percent of the time he has been impressive. One thing is for sure: he's really damn slow and that's never going to change. On defense, he has good anticipation, can read passing lanes and is a conscientious rebounder. On offense, his slowness makes it really difficult for him to operate in a crowd. He's an adequate ball-handler in space but can't maneuver when multiple players are around him. His passing hasn't been as good as advertised, especially off the dribble or on the move. Anderson is a good stationary passer and he can see the floor but doesn't always deliver the pass with good timing. His jumper is flat; his form isn't aesthetically-pleasing. He's not afraid to drive to the lane but he makes finishing more difficult than it needs to be due to relying on finesse moves. Anderson has a lot of herky-jerky savviness in his game (for example, his pump-fake-lean-into-the-defender move has been working in summer league), but he has a ways to go to help an NBA team. Defensively, he's going to have to learn to give space and use his length to his advantage (a la Danny Ferry back when he was a small forward). Offensively, he's still intriguing due to his varied skills but it's unclear how much he could contribute at the NBA level. The good news is that the spacing on the October-through-June Spurs will work to his advantage and he'll be much more comfortable being a fourth or fifth option rather than a first option like he is on the summer league team.

-I wasn't expecting much from Jonathan Simmons but he was actually quite impressive in his first game with the Spurs in summer league. And it was clear why the Spurs liked him enough to reportedly guarantee his contract for next year. When he checked into the game, the Spurs were down 13-2. Within seconds, he had turned the tide and got San Antonio right back into it. The first thing that stands out about him is his energy. Simmons played with the fire and passion of a young Stephen Jackson or a cranky Mario Elie. The second thing that stands out is his athleticism. He's fast, has quick feet and can really jump. While he's a bit handsy on the defensive end, he got up into ball-handlers to make life difficult. I was also impressed with how attentive he was off the ball; it's obvious that he knew what he was doing after being in Austin this last two season. On offense, he actually flashed quite a bit of skill. When the other players were frightened by backcourt pressure, Simmons took it upon himself to act as the point guard. He has a high dribble but it was effective; he didn't have much issue advancing the ball against pressure. I also really liked his passing. He made a few spectacular cross-court skip passes off the dribble that were almost worthy of me saying they were Manu-esque. Simmons was fearless driving to the hoop, didn't shy away from contact at all and finished while utilizing every ounce of his athleticism. While Spurs fans shouldn't FedEx his jersey to Springfield just yet, in this one game he made me believe the Spurs did the right thing by signing him. He's an competitive live body with elite athleticism who goes in and plays hard from his first moments on the court. You can't ask for much more out of a young prospect on a minimum contract buried deep on the bench.

-Man, I really liked Dairis Bertans after the first game of summer league. Unfortunately, he has gotten worse and worse and worse. Now I'm officially off the bandwagon. The thing holding him back the most is the fact that he just doesn't have an NBA body. Bertans has a stubby frame, wide hips and can't jump at all. I was hoping that he could at least be a Gary Neal clone as far as surviving without athleticism – but he's another step or two below that. I could live with his shooting slump since the opening game but nothing else about him is interesting at all. He doesn't dribble well enough to be a point guard. He's not that good of a passer. He's okay defensively one-on-one when he has help but he's dead in the water when a screen is set or his man has a clear path to the bucket. And even his shooting form is inconsistent, which is baffling for a player whose strength is supposed to be shooting. Unless he's dealing with some sort of injury we don't know about, Bertans isn't even worth the money it'd take to get him to training camp.

-Livio Jean-Charles is another player who peaked in the first game. Since then it's been downhill. That said, it's safe to say he has really good potential on the defensive end. He can move his feet, elevate well and has good instincts. But it appears as if he's now tired, which has led to less activity on that end. On offense, he's a train wreck. His jumper isn't pretty – neither form-wise nor accuracy-wise. Jean-Charles doesn't know what to do on offense so he just tends to float around to open space. He doesn't set screens or do anything to help the half court offense. Yes, he's good in transition – but that too has dried up due to the apparent exhaustion. Let's thank the lord above (and/or Tony Parker) that LJC has agreed to go back to Europe for at least another year. He looks and moves like a basketball player. Now he he has to learn how to play basketball.

-I remain moderately interested in Cady Lalanne. Good length, good fight and he stays connected mentally. His lack of mobility will limit his defensive potential but if he can learn to get by on physicality, he could develop into a Tony Massenburg type defender. He has exhibited flashes of being a good rebounder thus far in summer league, but he hasn't been as dominant in that area as I hoped heading into Utah and Vegas. Offensively, the truth is clear: the only chance Lalanne has to become an NBA player is to become a 35 percent shooter on three-pointers. With the ball in his hands in the paint, he's a slow jumper and lacks touch so he'll never survive as an interior bigman in the NBA. Basically, Lalanne has to learn to play like an old Sam Perkins ... or start collecting stamps on his passport.

-Treveon Graham has shown some promise but it appears as if he's just too short. A 6-foot-5 small forward simply isn't going to work.

-Jarell Eddie looks like a natural born shooter with an impressive stroke who gathers and fires quickly. Can he do enough elsewhere? That's to be seen. He doesn't appear to be a complete stiff and he looks like he's a legit 6-foot-6 or maybe an NBA 6-foot-7, which would be big enough. Since the big boy Spurs could use another shooter, he's someone to keep an eye on.

-None of the point guards appear to be NBA prospects. The only reserve bigman who appears to know what he's doing so far is Brandon Davies, and he has only played 17 minutes.

-And, hey, I thought Becky Hammon did a good job. As the game against the Knicks (her first as head coach) went along, I thought she gravitated toward using the better players more and changed the rotation on the fly. That sounds simple but some summer league coaches of the past (*cough* Don Newman *cough*) used inflexible rotations that didn't allow any flow to develop. Oh, and Hammon's end of game plays were actually pretty good. Well done.

:tu

great read bud

Anderson has a nice complementary skill set. In the Spurs' offense which next season will have Splitter and Baynes replaced by two of the best midrange shooting bigmen in the game, his game should fit well. The Spurs need to make him watch game film of Diaw for the two months prior to training camp. That is how he has a future in SA.

I'm glad Anderson had a better game today. Hes just looked so bad for most of this summer league. But I do agree that he'll probably be much better when hes not the lead player on the floor and just one of many quality options. But he needs to find a way to make his shooting numbers more consistent. Today was a good day. But the 2-12 he shot last game was hard to watch.

Simmons definitely has a lot of energy. I don't want to put too much of my heart into this one game as we've all seen the regression of Bertans, Lalanne and Jean-Charles recently. But I can definitely see why the team liked him and signed him. Pretty much the perfect find out of summer league for us and more than we realistically could have hoped for. The crowds will love him!

Sad about Bertans. After that first game I thought we'd stumbled onto something. But hes not going to work out. Still, he obviously has a good BBIQ. I'm hoping that trait is also evident in his brother Davis considering hes physically a much more desirable basketball player.

Lalanne is very interesting. Hes definitely not ready though. I really hope hes down with going to Europe for 1-2 years because he might have an NBA future with some polish and refinement. Not a great option for the Spurs this year though.

Jean-Charles is interesting too. But he really needs to commit himself to getting one or two quality offensive go-to moves. Right now he doesn't have anything. It makes most of his offensive possessions very awkward.

:tu:tu

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Originally Posted by timvp

-It's difficult to get a good read on Kyle Anderson. I'd say about 50 percent of the time through the first four games he has been underwhelming, 30 percent of the time he's been decent and 20 percent of the time he has been impressive. One thing is for sure: he's really damn slow and that's never going to change. On defense, he has good anticipation, can read passing lanes and is a conscientious rebounder. On offense, his slowness makes it really difficult for him to operate in a crowd. He's an adequate ball-handler in space but can't maneuver when multiple players are around him. His passing hasn't been as good as advertised, especially off the dribble or on the move. Anderson is a good stationary passer and he can see the floor but doesn't always deliver the pass with good timing. His jumper is flat; his form isn't aesthetically-pleasing. He's not afraid to drive to the lane but he makes finishing more difficult than it needs to be due to relying on finesse moves. Anderson has a lot of herky-jerky savviness in his game (for example, his pump-fake-lean-into-the-defender move has been working in summer league), but he has a ways to go to help an NBA team. Defensively, he's going to have to learn to give space and use his length to his advantage (a la Danny Ferry back when he was a small forward). Offensively, he's still intriguing due to his varied skills but it's unclear how much he could contribute at the NBA level. The good news is that the spacing on the October-through-June Spurs will work to his advantage and he'll be much more comfortable being a fourth or fifth option rather than a first option like he is on the summer league team.

-I wasn't expecting much from Jonathan Simmons but he was actually quite impressive in his first game with the Spurs in summer league. And it was clear why the Spurs liked him enough to reportedly guarantee his contract for next year. When he checked into the game, the Spurs were down 13-2. Within seconds, he had turned the tide and got San Antonio right back into it. The first thing that stands out about him is his energy. Simmons played with the fire and passion of a young Stephen Jackson or a cranky Mario Elie. The second thing that stands out is his athleticism. He's fast, has quick feet and can really jump. While he's a bit handsy on the defensive end, he got up into ball-handlers to make life difficult. I was also impressed with how attentive he was off the ball; it's obvious that he knew what he was doing after being in Austin this last two season. On offense, he actually flashed quite a bit of skill. When the other players were frightened by backcourt pressure, Simmons took it upon himself to act as the point guard. He has a high dribble but it was effective; he didn't have much issue advancing the ball against pressure. I also really liked his passing. He made a few spectacular cross-court skip passes off the dribble that were almost worthy of me saying they were Manu-esque. Simmons was fearless driving to the hoop, didn't shy away from contact at all and finished while utilizing every ounce of his athleticism. While Spurs fans shouldn't FedEx his jersey to Springfield just yet, in this one game he made me believe the Spurs did the right thing by signing him. He's an competitive live body with elite athleticism who goes in and plays hard from his first moments on the court. You can't ask for much more out of a young prospect on a minimum contract buried deep on the bench.

-Man, I really liked Dairis Bertans after the first game of summer league. Unfortunately, he has gotten worse and worse and worse. Now I'm officially off the bandwagon. The thing holding him back the most is the fact that he just doesn't have an NBA body. Bertans has a stubby frame, wide hips and can't jump at all. I was hoping that he could at least be a Gary Neal clone as far as surviving without athleticism – but he's another step or two below that. I could live with his shooting slump since the opening game but nothing else about him is interesting at all. He doesn't dribble well enough to be a point guard. He's not that good of a passer. He's okay defensively one-on-one when he has help but he's dead in the water when a screen is set or his man has a clear path to the bucket. And even his shooting form is inconsistent, which is baffling for a player whose strength is supposed to be shooting. Unless he's dealing with some sort of injury we don't know about, Bertans isn't even worth the money it'd take to get him to training camp.

-Livio Jean-Charles is another player who peaked in the first game. Since then it's been downhill. That said, it's safe to say he has really good potential on the defensive end. He can move his feet, elevate well and has good instincts. But it appears as if he's now tired, which has led to less activity on that end. On offense, he's a train wreck. His jumper isn't pretty – neither form-wise nor accuracy-wise. Jean-Charles doesn't know what to do on offense so he just tends to float around to open space. He doesn't set screens or do anything to help the half court offense. Yes, he's good in transition – but that too has dried up due to the apparent exhaustion. Let's thank the lord above (and/or Tony Parker) that LJC has agreed to go back to Europe for at least another year. He looks and moves like a basketball player. Now he he has to learn how to play basketball.

-I remain moderately interested in Cady Lalanne. Good length, good fight and he stays connected mentally. His lack of mobility will limit his defensive potential but if he can learn to get by on physicality, he could develop into a Tony Massenburg type defender. He has exhibited flashes of being a good rebounder thus far in summer league, but he hasn't been as dominant in that area as I hoped heading into Utah and Vegas. Offensively, the truth is clear: the only chance Lalanne has to become an NBA player is to become a 35 percent shooter on three-pointers. With the ball in his hands in the paint, he's a slow jumper and lacks touch so he'll never survive as an interior bigman in the NBA. Basically, Lalanne has to learn to play like an old Sam Perkins ... or start collecting stamps on his passport.

-Treveon Graham has shown some promise but it appears as if he's just too short. A 6-foot-5 small forward simply isn't going to work.

-Jarell Eddie looks like a natural born shooter with an impressive stroke who gathers and fires quickly. Can he do enough elsewhere? That's to be seen. He doesn't appear to be a complete stiff and he looks like he's a legit 6-foot-6 or maybe an NBA 6-foot-7, which would be big enough. Since the big boy Spurs could use another shooter, he's someone to keep an eye on.

-None of the point guards appear to be NBA prospects. The only reserve bigman who appears to know what he's doing so far is Brandon Davies, and he has only played 17 minutes.

-And, hey, I thought Becky Hammon did a good job. As the game against the Knicks (her first as head coach) went along, I thought she gravitated toward using the better players more and changed the rotation on the fly. That sounds simple but some summer league coaches of the past (*cough* Don Newman *cough*) used inflexible rotations that didn't allow any flow to develop. Oh, and Hammon's end of game plays were actually pretty good. Well done.

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Nice write up. Thanks. :toast

I don't believe we can honestly evaluate Andersons passing ability for a few reasons. One, the spacing of this team is terrible. Factor in that no one has been hitting the three consistently which nullifies his ability to penetrate and kick. He has made the right play consistently, you might argue that the pass accuracy is off, I'd say these guys just aren't knocking them down. Two, the ball movement has been mediocre at best so obviously his facilitating ability Is negated since it's hard to eliminate the ball stoppers due to the fact that there will always be that incentive to showcase rather than play within the system. Three, a part of the Spurs offense that I believe Andersons passing ability would be on full display is non existent with this team, in where a back screen is set to get a 3 point attempt on the weak side. Hopefully, they'll incorporate this misdirection at some point in Vegas.
Four, the tempo is erratic. These kids are just like the majority of the other teams pushing the tempo and getting bad looks. Again, the hero ball aspect that's tough to eliminate in the summer. These guys panic instead of forcing tempo not just for the sake of running but to get into a set before the defense can react. An advanced Spurs break would be tailor made to Andersons game. I get it, he's not athletic so it seems boring but it must be effective he gets by his defender almost at will. To say that he can't contribute 10-15 minutes a game for the Spurs is just being hyper critical.

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Originally Posted by Darkwaters

I'm glad Anderson had a better game today. Hes just looked so bad for most of this summer league. But I do agree that he'll probably be much better when hes not the lead player on the floor and just one of many quality options. But he needs to find a way to make his shooting numbers more consistent. Today was a good day. But the 2-12 he shot last game was hard to watch.

Simmons definitely has a lot of energy. I don't want to put too much of my heart into this one game as we've all seen the regression of Bertans, Lalanne and Jean-Charles recently. But I can definitely see why the team liked him and signed him. Pretty much the perfect find out of summer league for us and more than we realistically could have hoped for. The crowds will love him!

Sad about Bertans. After that first game I thought we'd stumbled onto something. But hes not going to work out. Still, he obviously has a good BBIQ. I'm hoping that trait is also evident in his brother Davis considering hes physically a much more desirable basketball player.

Lalanne is very interesting. Hes definitely not ready though. I really hope hes down with going to Europe for 1-2 years because he might have an NBA future with some polish and refinement. Not a great option for the Spurs this year though.

Jean-Charles is interesting too. But he really needs to commit himself to getting one or two quality offensive go-to moves. Right now he doesn't have anything. It makes most of his offensive possessions very awkward.

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:bobo

Agreed, not sold on Bertans.

Bertans, yes I agree. I thought he had a nice performance in the first two games but went downhill since then. I wonder why sometines, he's hesitant to shoot :( .

I'm a little surprised Anderson is doing so badly in summer league. Wasn't he killing last season in Austin?

Anderson got two or three shots blocked against this level of competition because of his slow reaction and release. Other times his slow motion moves to the lane brought heaps of trouble from defenders who were able to close on him. Sometimes his herky-jerky awkwardness allowed him to get a shot off but he will have trouble with the more experienced players in the big leagues.

Defensively, he plays waaaay off his man to prevent getting left in the wake, but this leaves a wide open 3 opportunity. I can't count the times I saw him trying to get back in touch with his man to put up some defensive hands. On this level he had some success however when he was laying off his man by covering the passing lanes with his long reach.

If he makes a passable player it will be because his slow motion style winds up confusing more athletic players. I wish him well since he's a Spur, but don't have a feeling that he ever was a legitimate top 15 pick.

Nice post.

The Simmons signing with a guaranteed contract has pretty much close the door at another wing rookie having a legit shot at making the roster. While Spurs haven't make the mistake to sign a bunch of 35 years old ring chaser to fill their roster, I doubt they will go with inexperienced players to backup Leonard, Green and Ginobili. Spurs will surely add a shooting wing but it will be a NBA vet.

Nice write up. :tu

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Originally Posted by baseline bum

I'm a little surprised Anderson is doing so badly in summer league. Wasn't he killing last season in Austin?

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Dude will never make it in the league. Unless he drinks some of Mike's secret stuff or gets a blood transfusion from Patty Mills, he's just too damn pathetic to make an impact. I've never had any sort of hope for him so if he doesn't completely fuck up, that's a plus. Anyways, at least Boner/Errors are off the team.

I don't think Anderson will develop into anything more than what he is: A solid wing that has a good basketball IQ.

He'll never be a star based off his athletic ability, but he'll perform well enough based off his smarts.

-Doc.

Simmons: Now a mix of Stephen Jackson, Mario Ellie, and Jaren Jackson.

Thanks for the write-up. Tomorrow we get to see them again. Simmons is bound to light a fire under everybody...

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Originally Posted by Doc_Holiday

I don't think Anderson will develop into anything more than what he is: A solid wing that has a good basketball IQ.

He'll never be a star based off his athletic ability, but he'll perform well enough based off his smarts.

-Doc.

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Anderson is pretty far away from being a solid wing in the NBA.

will Boban play Summer League?

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Originally Posted by south side spur

I don't believe we can honestly evaluate Andersons passing ability for a few reasons. One, the spacing of this team is terrible. Factor in that no one has been hitting the three consistently which nullifies his ability to penetrate and kick. He has made the right play consistently, you might argue that the pass accuracy is off, I'd say these guys just aren't knocking them down. Two, the ball movement has been mediocre at best so obviously his facilitating ability Is negated since it's hard to eliminate the ball stoppers due to the fact that there will always be that incentive to showcase rather than play within the system. Three, a part of the Spurs offense that I believe Andersons passing ability would be on full display is non existent with this team, in where a back screen is set to get a 3 point attempt on the weak side. Hopefully, they'll incorporate this misdirection at some point in Vegas.
Four, the tempo is erratic. These kids are just like the majority of the other teams pushing the tempo and getting bad looks. Again, the hero ball aspect that's tough to eliminate in the summer. These guys panic instead of forcing tempo not just for the sake of running but to get into a set before the defense can react. An advanced Spurs break would be tailor made to Andersons game. I get it, he's not athletic so it seems boring but it must be effective he gets by his defender almost at will. To say that he can't contribute 10-15 minutes a game for the Spurs is just being hyper critical.

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Good case for the glass half full.

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Originally Posted by south side spur

I don't believe we can honestly evaluate Andersons passing ability for a few reasons. One, the spacing of this team is terrible. Factor in that no one has been hitting the three consistently which nullifies his ability to penetrate and kick. He has made the right play consistently, you might argue that the pass accuracy is off, I'd say these guys just aren't knocking them down. Two, the ball movement has been mediocre at best so obviously his facilitating ability Is negated since it's hard to eliminate the ball stoppers due to the fact that there will always be that incentive to showcase rather than play within the system. Three, a part of the Spurs offense that I believe Andersons passing ability would be on full display is non existent with this team, in where a back screen is set to get a 3 point attempt on the weak side. Hopefully, they'll incorporate this misdirection at some point in Vegas.
Four, the tempo is erratic. These kids are just like the majority of the other teams pushing the tempo and getting bad looks. Again, the hero ball aspect that's tough to eliminate in the summer. These guys panic instead of forcing tempo not just for the sake of running but to get into a set before the defense can react. An advanced Spurs break would be tailor made to Andersons game. I get it, he's not athletic so it seems boring but it must be effective he gets by his defender almost at will. To say that he can't contribute 10-15 minutes a game for the Spurs is just being hyper critical.

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Good points. Anderson's game is *not* suited for Summer League kind of basketball.

Now consider that he'll be playing on the second team with a guy like Marjanovic. Anderson can be very effective setting up Marjanovic with a pass at the right time. Kind of like how Magic used to pass to Kareem.

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Originally Posted by Marcus Bryant

Anderson has a nice complementary skill set. In the Spurs' offense which next season will have Splitter and Baynes replaced by two of the best midrange shooting bigmen in the game, his game should fit well. The Spurs need to make him watch game film of Diaw for the two months prior to training camp. That is how he has a future in SA.

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Honestly, I've thought about whether the Spurs should just make Anderson a power forward. Although he'll never protect the rim, he rebounds and the fact that he's slow wouldn't be as much of an issue. He'd need to bulk up a ton but that might be what the plan should be if he doesn't make progress in his second season.

And, like you said, Diaw would be the perfect blueprint to go from young point guard to veteran bigman.

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Originally Posted by spurs10

Thanks for the write-up. Tomorrow we get to see them again. Simmons is bound to light a fire under everybody...

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Well the claim here is LJC and the rest are all exhausted because of the schedule.... let's see if Simons can execute on a back to back.

Nice read. Sounds like no rotation player out of this group for this year.

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Originally Posted by Strategic

Nice read. Sounds like no rotation player out of this group for this year.

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Simmons and Anderson will both be on the big roster and will both get a chance at a smallish spot in the rotation. However, they probably get some veteran competition also before it's all said and done. Still, one of those 3 probably plays regular minutes.

Great analysis.

You may have articulated what I've only been feeling about Kyle Anderson -- his slowness isn't such a problem on defense as everyone assumes. It's only on offense that it drives you crazy.

I agree that the bloom is coming off the rose with Dairis Bertans. It's hard to say because he plays so damn hard every minute. I don't see the physical problems that you point out as being his undoing. For me, it's simply that he just isn't hitting those outside jumpers anymore. He still looks good shooting them, but they aren't going in. If he can't hit those shots, there's really no other reason to keep him around. But I cling to the hope that it may just be a slump and he may still turn it around. I keep thinking he'll hit it when it matters.

Thank you for your insight.

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Originally Posted by Bruno

Nice post.

The Simmons signing with a guaranteed contract has pretty much close the door at another wing rookie having a legit shot at making the roster. While Spurs haven't make the mistake to sign a bunch of 35 years old ring chaser to fill their roster, I doubt they will go with inexperienced players to backup Leonard, Green and Ginobili. Spurs will surely add a shooting wing but it will be a NBA vet.

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Rasual Butler and Tayshaun Prince are the two names I've heard the most. Anyone else you can think of? Dorrell Wright maybe?

Anderson fouls almost every time he drives. I'll be curious to see how much that gets called for it during the regular season. He has an impressive ability to make contested midrange jumpers, which is nice, because he probably won't do well going all the way to the basket. But he has to get his spot-up shooting to be more effective to make a difference getting big minutes.

Simmons reminds me a lot of Green from his earliest Spurs days -- the days that people seem to blank out where he was a jack of all trades and showed a lot more complete of a game than he has now. I honestly don't see why the Spurs need another rotation wing at this point. Neither he nor Anderson is proven, but they do enough to fill what's really a small role until/unless a strong vet wing is available to fill the spot. I do think that like Green, if Simmons sticks with the Spurs, he'll eventually become differentiated, but right now, I like him being a ball of energy trying to make things happen. Seems like a perfect fit with the bench. Would have liked to see him take those open threes he had today, though, especially considering that he's a good shooter.

LJC should really have come over to play in the d-league for a couple years. I really don't see how he's going to get the burn he needs to get some game going on ASVEL. It's just going to be another wasted year for him. His defensive IQ seems to have dipped since the second Utah game. His mobility is still top-notch, but he could use some solid instruction on how to use his tools to reach his potential on that end.

Cady just needs to play more basketball. I'd rather him do that on another team's dime, but he's worth stashing in Austin over losing his rights. He just has so much he needs to work on, and I think he still needs to mature, and the Spurs really don't have the time this season to deal with that, especially considering that LaLanne doesn't really have that good of upside.

Bertans still seems like a smart player, but he's just been done since he took that blow to the head against the Jazz. I actually think he is in Neal's class, if he's closer to his performance in the first game. But the Spurs are just much better than they were when a guy like Neal could make the rotation.

Eddie has stone hands, which is a death knell for a wing. I actually like Graham, and I could see him getting a camp invite to send to Austin. A couple of Utah guys I could see in camp are Ware and Roscoe Smith. The Spurs will need bodies, and honestly I think those guys have been way better than their counterparts. Blackshear would be nice as well. I'm really disappointed that the Spurs couldn't have found one competent center for the roster. Ndoye looks like he might have to settle for the d-league (as in not even Europe).

Still, a lot left to see. I'd like to see Simmons in the starting lineup next game. He and Anderson should work well together. They just need to scrounge up a competent lead guard. Wolters getting hurt is such a bummer.

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Originally Posted by Bruno

Nice post.

The Simmons signing with a guaranteed contract has pretty much close the door at another wing rookie having a legit shot at making the roster. While Spurs haven't make the mistake to sign a bunch of 35 years old ring chaser to fill their roster, I doubt they will go with inexperienced players to backup Leonard, Green and Ginobili. Spurs will surely add a shooting wing but it will be a NBA vet.

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Agree.

Anderson needs to go on the Beno taco diet and gain 65 pounds of solid Mexican food weight

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Originally Posted by Marcus Bryant

Anderson has a nice complementary skill set. In the Spurs' offense which next season will have Splitter and Baynes replaced by two of the best midrange shooting bigmen in the game, his game should fit well. The Spurs need to make him watch game film of Diaw for the two months prior to training camp. That is how he has a future in SA.

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Originally Posted by timvp

Honestly, I've thought about whether the Spurs should just make Anderson a power forward. Although he'll never protect the rim, he rebounds and the fact that he's slow wouldn't be as much of an issue. He'd need to bulk up a ton but that might be what the plan should be if he doesn't make progress in his second season.

And, like you said, Diaw would be the perfect blueprint to go from young point guard to veteran bigman.

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Again, I feel like the Diaw comparisons are a bit lazy. Boris was a guard who was better suited to being a big due to his size. While he may not have had the agility to be a PG in the NBA, he was a great all-around athlete. I know that you might say, "Well nothing's perfect, but he can try to be a less-athletic Diaw". But that's missing the point. Diaw is Diaw BECAUSE he's still athletic. He can drive and kick like a guard because he can penetrate like one. Anderson can barely do that without the extra bulk on him. He'll also have to gain a ton of weight to be a great post player, seeing has he's at a leverage disadvantage against almost everybody. That lack of leverage will also hurt him when he has to rebound versus bigger players.

Anderson is not going to be Diaw. He needs to stay where he at least has a size advantage over other players. Instead of moving down, he needs to become more physical, kind of like Pierce or old Jack. Him having such a high release and being able to shoot well even when contested means he can get into the body of his defenders and shoot over them then they get off balance. On defense, he needs to be physical and use his length to smother his man. He'll never be great, but he can be frustrating with his wingspan and IQ. He just needs to have a ton of junk in his game, as he simply doesn't have the athleticism to be a smooth finesse player at the highest level.

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Originally Posted by Chinook

Again, I feel like the Diaw comparisons are a bit lazy. Boris was a guard who was better suited to being a big due to his size. While he may not have had the agility to be a PG in the NBA, he was a great all-around athlete. I know that you might say, "Well nothing's perfect, but he can try to be a less-athletic Diaw". But that's missing the point. Diaw is Diaw BECAUSE he's still athletic. He can drive and kick like a guard because he can penetrate like one. Anderson can barely do that without the extra bulk on him. He'll also have to gain a ton of weight to be a great post player, seeing has he's at a leverage disadvantage against almost everybody. That lack of leverage will also hurt him when he has to rebound versus bigger players.

Anderson is not going to be Diaw. He needs to stay where he at least has a size advantage over other players. Instead of moving down, he needs to become more physical, kind of like Pierce or old Jack. Him having such a high release and being able to shoot well even when contested means he can get into the body of his defenders and shoot over them then they get off balance. On defense, he needs to be physical and use his length to smother his man. He'll never be great, but he can be frustrating with his wingspan and IQ. He just needs to have a ton of junk in his game, as he simply doesn't have the athleticism to be a smooth finesse player at the highest level.

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Good point, Anderson should stop be a finesse player and just work on a more physical game. That and a 3 point shot.

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Originally Posted by Darkwaters

Rasual Butler and Tayshaun Prince are the two names I've heard the most. Anyone else you can think of? Dorrell Wright maybe?

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Wright might be the best option. There is also Jason Richardson and Delfino if he has recover from his injury.

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Originally Posted by jeebus

Dude will never make it in the league. Unless he drinks some of Mike's secret stuff or gets a blood transfusion from Patty Mills, he's just too damn pathetic to make an impact. I've never had any sort of hope for him so if he doesn't completely fuck up, that's a plus. Anyways, at least Boner/Errors are off the team.

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Correct and I said this originally when the fucker was drafted. FUCK HIM!

Great takes Timvp :toast

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Originally Posted by timvp

Honestly, I've thought about whether the Spurs should just make Anderson a power forward. Although he'll never protect the rim, he rebounds and the fact that he's slow wouldn't be as much of an issue. He'd need to bulk up a ton but that might be what the plan should be if he doesn't make progress in his second season.

And, like you said, Diaw would be the perfect blueprint to go from young point guard to veteran bigman.

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You don't think the Spurs would just not offer a contract if he doesn't show much improvement this year?

Kyle Anderson is a complementary player. We all knew that. Whether he sticks, I. The Sours or anywhere, will be determined by whether he can stick his jumpers. Right now it's a total adventure. I think he's fixing his shot. But if he never gets it right, he's gone. I've always thought of him vis-vis Jared Dudley. Different players in some ways, but both very slow. Dudley has bounced a bit, but still can have value depending on how much he makes his spot attempts.

Thank you for the write-up, Timvp. We have missed your insights and observations.

Vet wings haven't fit in well with the Spurs of late. Maybe because of MG and TP's games are too well versed. RM3, RJ both sucked with Spurs. MB, questionable. Young wings DG, KL and lightly used PM have it. Even GH, GN and CoJo were amiable. Simmons sounds serviceable, roll with it! But if Manu or Tony go down injured mid season, see what's out there.

Everyone pretty much nailed their takes, nice reads. Here's mine.

Kyle Anderson
He has been hit or miss so far, and I would like to see him have more continuity with his performances. I wonder if this performance was more because of potential or if it was a breakout game due to having better players surrounding him. If it's the ladder that's great news because he'll have much more help on the Big squad. As for potential, as much as we tend to react to Kyle's play, he has had two nice games out of four.The Summer League is better competition than the D-League. Not many players can have those games, so give him that much credit. I guess we expect so much more from this guy cause either he was a ''name" in college or because of the Spurs success in the draft.

One thought I had was what if having Jonathon on the team helps to push Kyle further into being a better player. He seemed to feed off Jon's energy as did most the team. I also noticed Kyle played with more urgency tonight, not as laid back which is a positive sign. His defense has gotten better. He's not as bad a defender as we previously thought, so he's developing well in that aspect.

Jonathon Simmons
His play was shocking at first and it weathered down near the end. But my only question on this guy that I would like response is, how high is his ceiling?(Thread worthy? Maybe after more games) Wasn't Manu 25 when he came to the Spurs? Don't remember. But I wonder if they see this guy as a change of pace sub or someone who plays spot minutes to bring the noise, or that guy that can dunk over Ibaka to change the destiny of a series. Could this guy be a 6th man ala Jamal Crawford or J.R. Smith? So much intrigue, I can't wait to see how this all unfolds. I mean, he can do a lot of things on the court. The only weaknesses I see are his shaky handling and experience. I'm glad we locked him up for two years, just in case he does breakout. It was cool to see in crunch time he got touches as if it was like the rest of team knew he was an alpha. He didn't produce but still.

I'm not gonna beat a dead horse about the rest of the guys, so yeah, Jonathon and Kyle were all that really stuck out today.

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Originally Posted by Chinook

Again, I feel like the Diaw comparisons are a bit lazy. Boris was a guard who was better suited to being a big due to his size. While he may not have had the agility to be a PG in the NBA, he was a great all-around athlete. I know that you might say, "Well nothing's perfect, but he can try to be a less-athletic Diaw". But that's missing the point. Diaw is Diaw BECAUSE he's still athletic. He can drive and kick like a guard because he can penetrate like one. Anderson can barely do that without the extra bulk on him. He'll also have to gain a ton of weight to be a great post player, seeing has he's at a leverage disadvantage against almost everybody. That lack of leverage will also hurt him when he has to rebound versus bigger players.

Anderson is not going to be Diaw. He needs to stay where he at least has a size advantage over other players. Instead of moving down, he needs to become more physical, kind of like Pierce or old Jack. Him having such a high release and being able to shoot well even when contested means he can get into the body of his defenders and shoot over them then they get off balance. On defense, he needs to be physical and use his length to smother his man. He'll never be great, but he can be frustrating with his wingspan and IQ. He just needs to have a ton of junk in his game, as he simply doesn't have the athleticism to be a smooth finesse player at the highest level.

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Given his skill set and limitations the best way for him to find a role in SA is to pattern his game after Diaw. That is obviously not saying that they are the exact same type of player, but there are definite similarities. Diaw is athletic, but not as he once was. Anderson is not going to be a conventional quick forward.

Didn't Anderson feast in the D-League last year? I am puzzled to why he isn't drastically improving given a year of NBA level training/coaching/experience behind him.

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Originally Posted by rexrobinson

Didn't Anderson feast in the D-League last year? I am puzzled to why he isn't drastically improving given a year of NBA level training/coaching/experience behind him.

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The majority of the d league are not NBA talent.

Is not d league better then summer league

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Originally Posted by rexrobinson

Didn't Anderson feast in the D-League last year? I am puzzled to why he isn't drastically improving given a year of NBA level training/coaching/experience behind him.

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Maybe because these summer games are a mess strategy-wise, he´s playing with unfamiliar guys so there is no rhythm, also I assume he is losing a lot in the assists department because the other team mates were bricking really hard.
Players having 10 Personal Fouls means there is no punishment for sucking.

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Originally Posted by TheGoldStandard

The majority of the d league are not NBA talent.

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I agree and would extend that characterization to the Summer League as well (other than the top few draft picks). Someone in another thread said he looked, "Uninterested" and if that observation is accurate it worries me that he may think that he is too good for this and does not have to try hard or resents the situation.

When I saw Kyle a year ago, I thought he needed to transform into a different player if he wanted to make it into the NBA. Less ball dominant, lower-closer dribble, faster release, less of a gambler and more of a defender, bulk up a bit, etc. He'll never develop speed, but some of those things would help him become more versatile, and with a bit of craftiness, he could find his niche. I figured since he was going to the Toros, that's exactly what was going to happen. So it was disappointing to just see the same Kyle Anderson this time around.

Reading some of the comments here, maybe he can't be changed, he is who he is. And unfortunately, as it is, it's like trying to fit a square peg in a round hole. I still don't see the niche that would allow him to stick in the league.

As far as Simmons, he looked great. Bundle of energy, very active, very athletic, really good penetration... it's possible he was riding the high of signing a contract, but if he can bring that level of activity and energy every outing, he's definitely a keeper.

never liked LJC, even after we drafted him. i'm also not expecting cady to be on the spurs anytime soon. i dont see anything special about him.

on a side note, bryce cotton had a huge game today

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Originally Posted by spurraider21

never liked LJC, even after we drafted him. i'm also not expecting cady to be on the spurs anytime soon. i dont see anything special about him.

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Lalanne is definitely a project that needs a lot of work. I thought LJC would be much farther along given the hype he received here, tbh...

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Originally Posted by ElNono

Lalanne is definitely a project that needs a lot of work. I thought LJC would be much farther along given the hype he received here, tbh...

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LJC isn't a great athlete, has no jumper, and is skinny... dont see how he fits anywhere in an nba offense

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Originally Posted by ElNono

Lalanne is definitely a project that needs a lot of work. I thought LJC would be much farther along given the hype he received here, tbh...

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Playing in Europe is no way to improve your game.

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Originally Posted by TheGoldStandard

Playing in Europe is no way to improve your game.

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I don't know about that. Look at Boban, or even other cases like Gino or Scola... the thing though is that you need to play and be a standout in the better leagues/tournaments.

I'm not sure Asvel is ever going to play a Euroleague Finals, or something like that, where you see the kind of talent and fierce competition that you need.

On the other hand, they probably make more money over there than in the NBDL...

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Originally Posted by ElNono

I don't know about that. Look at Boban, or even other cases like Gino or Scola... the thing though is that you need to play and be a standout in the better leagues/tournaments.

I'm not sure Asvel is ever going to play a Euroleague Finals, or something like that, where you see the kind of talent and fierce competition that you need.

On the other hand, they probably make more money over there than in the NBDL...

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If that's the case then he's 5 to 6 years away from being ready.

Thanks for the write-up timvp. I don't give half a shit about summer league, but still like to read our players development. I'm sure I speak for most when I say it's good to have you back going into this season... just wasn't the same last two.

Chinook with some excellent takes, but agree with Mr. Body. If Anderson doesn't develop a consistent jumper, he will be out of the league soon.

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Originally Posted by Marcus Bryant

Given his skill set and limitations the best way for him to find a role in SA is to pattern his game after Diaw. That is obviously not saying that they are the exact same type of player, but there are definite similarities. Diaw is athletic, but not as he once was. Anderson is not going to be a conventional quick forward.

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Originally Posted by Chinook

I know that you might say, "Well nothing's perfect, but he can try to be a less-athletic Diaw". But that's missing the point. Diaw is Diaw BECAUSE he's still athletic. He can drive and kick like a guard because he can penetrate like one. Anderson can barely do that without the extra bulk on him. He'll also have to gain a ton of weight to be a great post player, seeing has he's at a leverage disadvantage against almost everybody. That lack of leverage will also hurt him when he has to rebound versus bigger players.

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Diaw still has a tremendous size:agility ratio. He's also pretty damned athletic when he wants to be, as evidenced by his chase-down blocks last season. He's not able to play the three like some folks on here think he can, but he's still a match-up problem physically.

I don't see any way that Anderson could gain enough weight to be a post scorer while also being able to drive. And I definitely don't think the key to him having a future in the NBA is him lowering his already-low agility and playing against guys who are his own size. He would have no advantages at that point.

Kyle will never be a guy who can consistently get around his defenders. So he has to learn to go over them or through them. That's going to have to come from a commitment to playing ugly basketball and waging a psychological battle with everyone he goes up against. It's an attitude thing because he already has the skill-set to be that guy from what I've seen.

I had hopes for LJC based on his Hoops Summitv game but not anymore. He has NO semblance of an offensive game, not post, not mid range not long range, not drive, and there's not any good coaching in the world to change that. He is a potentially good defender but he doesn't complement that with being an exceptional rebounder.

Lalanne is a guy like many others we've fixated on that will be in Europe or the D-league and then fade from sight and thought after two or three years.

Anderson should work like crazy on a three point shot with a quicker released and become a more skilled, more versatile, somewhat slower, lighter Bonner.

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Originally Posted by wildbill2u

Anderson got two or three shots blocked against this level of competition because of his slow reaction and release.

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He drew fouls with a few of his blocked shots, so is that a good thing?

Kyle Anderson as a #1 or even #2 option will be different verses a #4 or #5 option during the regular season.

Having the likes of Duncan, Aldridge, Leonard, and even Parker will make his job THAT much easier. The spacing will be ridiculous, and will allow his 'slow' game to develop. There's no reason why he can't give us 10-15 minutes during the regular season.

-Doc.

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Originally Posted by Chinook

Diaw still has a tremendous size:agility ratio. He's also pretty damned athletic when he wants to be, as evidenced by his chase-down blocks last season. He's not able to play the three like some folks on here think he can, but he's still a match-up problem physically.

I don't see any way that Anderson could gain enough weight to be a post scorer while also being able to drive. And I definitely don't think the key to him having a future in the NBA is him lowering his already-low agility and playing against guys who are his own size. He would have no advantages at that point.

Kyle will never be a guy who can consistently get around his defenders. So he has to learn to go over them or through them. That's going to have to come from a commitment to playing ugly basketball and waging a psychological battle with everyone he goes up against. It's an attitude thing because he already has the skill-set to be that guy from what I've seen.

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He can and does play the three, depending upon how fluidly you look at the 3 and 4 position. Specifically, many are worried about our need for someone to backup Kawhi, because KA, in their belief, isn't enough. I know you have stated that you're not worried about it because Danny, Manu, KA, and now Simmons can do an adequate job. I agree. I list Diaw in that group that will get some of the 3 backup minutes as well. It is pretty undeniable that he has and will act in that regard.

There are articles about how he shut down Lebron in game 5. The Lebron that our 3 has the primary task of guarding.

The Lebron James that is most commonly listed as a small forward.

Situationally, Diaw can and has spelled Kawhi on his most taxing assignment, on the biggest stage. If he can do it in the finals, he can do it for a few minutes here and there throughout the regular season. And, thusly, is why he is listed at the end of the list of guys that can fill in at the 3.

In order to say he can't be listed in that group, we would have to play a semantics game where we say he is playing as a small ball 4 or some such explaining away. But, the point of listing him in that group is for the purpose of backing up Kawhi, which is whose man Diaw is guarding. For all intents and purposes at that point, he is backing up the 3 position, our three position, the player Kawhi, that everyone is wondering who is going to back him up. The answer must include Boris.

Green, Manu, Anderson, Diaw, Simmons
Green, Manu, Simmons, Anderson, Diaw
Etc.
Sure, in other aspects, he's not much of a small forward anymore. But, he's still one situationally or in emergencies, and he definitely backs up Kawhi.

thanks for the analysis timvp!

http://www.nba.com/2015/news/feature...=iref:nbahpt3a

Boris Diaw is an excellent all-around player who can play and defend almost four positions.....

underrated, imo....but extremely talented

we are fortunate to have him

Thanks for the write-up on Simmons. I appreciate the detail, also I have liked what I have seen limitedly in Lalanne.

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Originally Posted by littlecoyotecoin

He can and does play the three, depending upon how fluidly you look at the 3 and 4 position. Specifically, many are worried about our need for someone to backup Kawhi, because KA, in their belief, isn't enough. I know you have stated that you're not worried about it because Danny, Manu, KA, and now Simmons can do an adequate job. I agree. I list Diaw in that group that will get some of the 3 backup minutes as well. It is pretty undeniable that he has and will act in that regard.

There are articles about how he shut down Lebron in game 5. The Lebron that our 3 has the primary task of guarding.

The Lebron James that is most commonly listed as a small forward.

Situationally, Diaw can and has spelled Kawhi on his most taxing assignment, on the biggest stage. If he can do it in the finals, he can do it for a few minutes here and there throughout the regular season. And, thusly, is why he is listed at the end of the list of guys that can fill in at the 3.

In order to say he can't be listed in that group, we would have to play a semantics game where we say he is playing as a small ball 4 or some such explaining away. But, the point of listing him in that group is for the purpose of backing up Kawhi, which is whose man Diaw is guarding. For all intents and purposes at that point, he is backing up the 3 position, our three position, the player Kawhi, that everyone is wondering who is going to back him up. The answer must include Boris.

Green, Manu, Anderson, Diaw, Simmons
Green, Manu, Simmons, Anderson, Diaw
Etc.
Sure, in other aspects, he's not much of a small forward anymore. But, he's still one situationally or in emergencies, and he definitely backs up Kawhi.

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This isn't really to topic of the thread, but no. Diaw can't play the three, and he can't shut down Lebron. He can't even put into good minutes against him. I'd like to see articles talking about the 2014 Finals and the job Diaw did defensively on James. I don't think they exists, and I feel like they're wrong if they do. In 2013, Lebron was passive And reluctant to shoot from outside. So the Spurs could get away with almost anyone as the lead defender with Duncan shadowing. In 2014, Diaw was slaughtered when James matched up against him.

And that's James, who despite being the best player on Earth is a power player. There are shooters and drivers who would give Diaw even more trouble. I don't see Diaw touching SF outside of garbage time or injuries.

:lol Diaw playing the 3...we aren't still trying to sell that as a possibility are we?

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Originally Posted by Chinook

This isn't really to topic of the thread, but no. Diaw can't play the three, and he can't shut down Lebron. He can't even put into good minutes against him. I'd like to see articles talking about the 2014 Finals and the job Diaw did defensively on James. I don't think they exists, and I feel like they're wrong if they do. In 2013, Lebron was passive And reluctant to shoot from outside. So the Spurs could get away with almost anyone as the lead defender with Duncan shadowing. In 2014, Diaw was slaughtered when James matched up against him.

And that's James, who despite being the best player on Earth is a power player. There are shooters and drivers who would give Diaw even more trouble. I don't see Diaw touching SF outside of garbage time or injuries.

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It may not be the topic of the thread. I guess I should have ignored it when you mentioned it. However, if you simply type in "Boris Diaw guarding Lebron James" you can find a whole list of articles detailing what a relatively good job he did for you to disagree with. Even if you try to refute them all, the fact is, he spent enough time guarding him to have people discuss it, many of whom do disagree with you.

And, you bring up shooters and drivers for what point I'm not sure. The point was situationally as he has already been used, and in case of emergency (injury) which you acknowledge at the end of your post. Of course there are people he can't guard, that's why he's at the END of the list.

Damn! A Diaw slam.

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Originally Posted by littlecoyotecoin

It may not be the topic of the thread. I guess I should have ignored it when you mentioned it. However, if you simply type in "Boris Diaw guarding Lebron James" you can find a whole list of articles detailing what a relatively good job he did for you to disagree with. Even if you try to refute them all, the fact is, he spent enough time guarding him to have people discuss it, many of whom do disagree with you.

And, you bring up shooters and drivers for what point I'm not sure. The point was situationally as he has already been used, and in case of emergency (injury) which you acknowledge at the end of your post. Of course there are people he can't guard, that's why he's at the END of the list.

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To follow up, the article I quoted the "shut down" Lebron from was 2013. Most of the articles raving about his defense were from 2013. In 2014, Diaw still substituted in for Kawhi, which is my point. When Kawhi got into foul trouble, Diaw came in. He was less effective, maybe, because Lebron took advantage to take and make some outside shots on Diaw. You want to cherry-pick the year he defended more poorly, dismiss the year he defended more successfully. Whatever. He was still the defender, absorbed the minutes for Kawhi while Kawhi was in foul trouble, and more than made up for his defensive liability in 2014 by destroying The Heat on the offensive end while he was in for Kawhi. He was a productive substitute. Most 2014 articles didn't discuss Diaw's defensive role because it was irrelevant in comparison to how he was decimating the opposition on offense. Still, he absorbed those Kawhi minutes while waltzing to a championship.

I am sure there will be a game or three throughout the season where he could fill in effectively against shitty teams, back to backs, teams with bad 3 rotations, etc. He may even get eaten alive on the defensive end on some nights, while they still march to 20 point victories.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by littlecoyotecoin

It may not be the topic of the thread. I guess I should have ignored it when you mentioned it. However, if you simply type in "Boris Diaw guarding Lebron James" you can find a whole list of articles detailing what a relatively good job he did for you to disagree with. Even if you try to refute them all, the fact is, he spent enough time guarding him to have people discuss it, many of whom do disagree with you.

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Those were about the 2013 Finals, when pretty much everyone had good numbers against James for the first few games. Lebron didn't want to shoot, and he had no choice but to drive into double teams. He was BY FAR the worst person to defend James the next Finals statistically. Pop straight up stopped using him to check James after Game Three. It was awful, and I don't see why Diaw would be considered an option guarding Lebron in any capacity at his point.

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And, you bring up shooters and drivers for what point I'm not sure. The point was situationally as he has already been used, and in case of emergency (injury) which you acknowledge at the end of your post. Of course there are people he can't guard, that's why he's at the END of the list.

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Because James, especially the James from Games 1-6 of the 2013 Finals wasn't a typical small-forward. He operated on a very small part of the floor, as he showed no range and wasn't able to get all the way to the rim consistently with him being shadowed constantly. Most small-forwards nowadays are complete perimeter players, and Boris struggles to guard guys that far away from the basket (hence Caron Butler taking his cookie in the 2014 WCF). Is he gonna guard Harrison Barnes, Corey Brewer, Lance Stephenson or any of the other bench threes on playoff teams? I don't think so. He's not anymore of an option than Bonner is at that spot. And before you act like that's just a silly comparison, Bonner played the three next to Ayres in Baynes in a number of garbage-time situations.

So, you're saying Diaw did cover Lebron quite a bit in 2013, but anyone could have, so those minutes don't count. And, he only covered him in 3/5 of the games in 2014, 2/3 we won, even though he was ineffective. Three games, again, he did cover him.

And some more stuff about Diaw not being effective out on the perimeter, and Lebron is a special case, which I conceded from the very beginning. A bigger 3, small ball four, that still draws Kawhi as a cover.

Where did I say he was going to guard those quick threes on playoff teams? I used a playoff example that everyone is aware of, but have often mentioned regular season, back to backs, etc. It's like the exact opposite of what I said. Just about the textbook definition of a strawman you have constructed to tear down.

Green, Manu, Simmons, Anderson, Diaw
Green, Manu, Anderson, Simmons, Diaw
Green, Manu, Simmons, Diaw, Anderson

Etc.

I thought that was pretty clear. But, you conveniently imply that I think Diaw will be tasked to guard quick perimeter 3's?!

Anderson won't be guarding them very effectively, either. He will only be effective, if at all, situationally, against slower guys, yet we're calling him a 3. He's not going to be very effective against the faster 3's on the perimeter. Still, again, we're gonna call him a 3. And, you yourself were just arguing that Boris was a far superior athlete to Anderson (clearly he was). He still compares favorably with Anderson depending upon what his weight comes in at. As Anderson will struggle with those quick SF, so will BoBo, which is why those won't be the situations where they'll be used.

The first two guys in each scenario would be Green and Manu. If they're not available, Simmons. If they are a slower, older, less-skilled, and or larger 3, KA or Boris might be used. As Boris already has been, ever if oh so ineffectively.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Chinook

Diaw still has a tremendous size:agility ratio. He's also pretty damned athletic when he wants to be, as evidenced by his chase-down blocks last season. He's not able to play the three like some folks on here think he can, but he's still a match-up problem physically.

I don't see any way that Anderson could gain enough weight to be a post scorer while also being able to drive. And I definitely don't think the key to him having a future in the NBA is him lowering his already-low agility and playing against guys who are his own size. He would have no advantages at that point.

Kyle will never be a guy who can consistently get around his defenders. So he has to learn to go over them or through them. That's going to have to come from a commitment to playing ugly basketball and waging a psychological battle with everyone he goes up against. It's an attitude thing because he already has the skill-set to be that guy from what I've seen.

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Diaw is not as athletic as you make him out to be. Here's a video of possibly Diaw's greatest moments, against the Thunder in 2014

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LODvBdcLAlw

Only once in that entire 15 minute montage does Diaw drive and actually get to the rim. Every other time he drives from the perimeter he gets to a post position and begins playing with his back to the basket. He is an excellent post player and can get to the rim after positing up because his size forces his defender off balance, but that's more to do with smart post play than it is athleticism.

When we watch Kyle Anderson highlights, he's being guarded by a wing player and he's trying to get to the rim off the dribble, which he can't do. Ask him to do what Boris does and he is athletic enough, simply because nothing Boris does requires athleticism. Anderson could gain 30lbs and be able to get to the same spots as Boris did against the Thunder, but he can only do it if he becomes as strong and as good a shooter as Boris. Diaw was hitting 3's at 40% in 2014, and that is how Boris was able to attack closeouts to get to his spots. Without the shooting his effectiveness really takes a hit.

Boris was never athletic enough to play as a wing in the NBA, he's been a power forward since he got to Phoenix. I don't question that Diaw had vertical hops that Anderson will never have, but lateral quickness? Anderson isn't as far behind him as you think, even from when Boris was 230. Andersons only future in the league is as a power forward.

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Originally Posted by Richie

Diaw is not as athletic as you make him out to be. Here's a video of possibly Diaw's greatest moments, against the Thunder in 2014

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Dude, against the Thunder, Diaw was almost always being guarded by smaller guys, so off course he was going to play in the post. Diaw is a brilliant post player. His BBIQ plays into that, but he's also very bulky -- much more bulky than Anderson can really ever hope of being. Diaw's versatility lies in the fact that he is extremely agile for his size. Anderson is extremely unagile for his size, and his body type makes him a poor post scorer (for the same reason that plague's Durant). It's really hard for anyone who's tall and skinny to back someone down, because they lack leverage. The same reason why Green was able to stonewall Durant in the post in the WCF is why Anderson could be shut down by pretty much anyone is that's what made or broke his game.

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When we watch Kyle Anderson highlights, he's being guarded by a wing player and he's trying to get to the rim off the dribble, which he can't do. Ask him to do what Boris does and he is athletic enough, simply because nothing Boris does requires athleticism. Anderson could gain 30lbs and be able to get to the same spots as Boris did against the Thunder, but he can only do it if he becomes as strong and as good a shooter as Boris. Diaw was hitting 3's at 40% in 2014, and that is how Boris was able to attack closeouts to get to his spots. Without the shooting his effectiveness really takes a hit.

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Of course it does. That's like saying ballet doesn't require athleticism. Balance, coordination and agility are things that Diaw has from his time as a small. And they are invaluable to his ability to get around bigger players. I agree that shooting is critical to Anderson's ability to score, because he's not going to get a ton of layups off the dribble. But

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Boris was never athletic enough to play as a wing in the NBA, he's been a power forward since he got to Phoenix. I don't question that Diaw had vertical hops that Anderson will never have, but lateral quickness? Anderson isn't as far behind him as you think, even from when Boris was 230. Andersons only future in the league is as a power forward.

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Diaw's 6-9 with great post instincts. He was always going to be a forward in the league. But you're dead wrong on his lateral quickness. He used to be a perimeter defender, which is something Anderson doesn't have. And he's still very good at hedging and switching. Anderson being 240 or whatever won't do anything but slow him down more. He won't have any advantage anywhere on the court. Right now, he's still taller than almost anyone who would guard him, which is huge for someone on the perimeter. He can shoot over his man. If he had to play against PFs? No. And he wouldn't be more agile than them, either. And he couldn't have Diaw's base. He really would just drop out of the league.

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Originally Posted by Chinook

Dude, against the Thunder, Diaw was almost always being guarded by smaller guys, so off course he was going to play in the post. Diaw is a brilliant post player. His BBIQ plays into that, but he's also very bulky -- much more bulky than Anderson can really ever hope of being. Diaw's versatility lies in the fact that he is extremely agile for his size. Anderson is extremely unagile for his size, and his body type makes him a poor post scorer (for the same reason that plague's Durant). It's really hard for anyone who's tall and skinny to back someone down, because they lack leverage. The same reason why Green was able to stonewall Durant in the post in the WCF is why Anderson could be shut down by pretty much anyone is that's what made or broke his game.



Of course it does. That's like saying ballet doesn't require athleticism. Balance, coordination and agility are things that Diaw has from his time as a small. And they are invaluable to his ability to get around bigger players. I agree that shooting is critical to Anderson's ability to score, because he's not going to get a ton of layups off the dribble. But



Diaw's 6-9 with great post instincts. He was always going to be a forward in the league. But you're dead wrong on his lateral quickness. He used to be a perimeter defender, which is something Anderson doesn't have. And he's still very good at hedging and switching. Anderson being 240 or whatever won't do anything but slow him down more. He won't have any advantage anywhere on the court. Right now, he's still taller than almost anyone who would guard him, which is huge for someone on the perimeter. He can shoot over his man. If he had to play against PFs? No. And he wouldn't be more agile than them, either. And he couldn't have Diaw's base. He really would just drop out of the league.

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I think you underestimate Anderson. He's already 230 which is 15lbs heavier than Diaw and Durant were when they entered the league. If he can't put on Diaw-like weight, something a player like Austin Daye really struggled with, then he will be out of the league. I don't really know why you think it's impossible though.

His height and reach advantage over smaller players is meaningless if they are running circles around him. Most if not all wings in this league could blow past him to the rim and if he hangs back enough to protect the paint they can pull up for a jumpshot. We could probably put him on one dimensional players are dare them to shoot (ala Tony Allen) but that's about it.

Boris beats opposing big men with great footwork and ball handling for a player his size, not his agility. He's not blowing by them, he's getting them off balance and taking advantage. Anderson has a LONG way to go in replicating that, but what makes Boris so unique is that combination of court vision, awareness, passing and handles for a player that size, the kind of things you can't really teach, and Anderson has all those same attributes. The balance and coordination you mention are also attributes which Anderson has in spades, again rare for a player his size.

Boris coming into the leage and even now is so much more athletic than KA and it's not really close.

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Originally Posted by littlecoyotecoin

So, you're saying Diaw did cover Lebron quite a bit in 2013, but anyone could have, so those minutes don't count.

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Is this how this post is going to be (I'm multi-quoting, so I don't really know yet)? No, I am saying that anyone DID cover James well in those games. Do you know how people don't talk about Diaw on James in the final two games of that series? It's because Diaw wasn't good in those games. He wasn't good when James got out of his own head and just attacked Diaw. Kawhi was still good. Danny was still good, but Diaw wasn't. And Manu wasn't. And Neal wasn't. The Spurs weren't able to get away with just throwing anyone out there after that.

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And, he only covered him in 3/5 of the games in 2014, 2/3 we won, even though he was ineffective. Three games, again, he did cover him.

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He wasn't just ineffective. He was awful. He gave up 1.7 PPP. That's an 80-plus TS%. It was ghastly.

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A bigger 3, small ball four, that still draws Kawhi as a cover.

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So like who? Marcus Morris and James Johnson? That's the best I got, and Diaw wasn't on either of those guys unless they were fours. But if Diaw can't even guard Butler, then he can't play the three. That should just be the end of the conversation right there.

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But, you conveniently imply that I think Diaw will be tasked to guard quick perimeter 3's?!

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Said that threes tend to be quick, perimeter players now, especially bench threes.

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Anderson won't be guarding them very effectively, either. He will only be effective, if at all, situationally, against slower guys, yet we're calling him a 3.

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Yeah, that's not the consensus.

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The first two guys in each scenario would be Green and Manu. If they're not available, Simmons. If they are a slower, older, less-skilled, and or larger 3, KA or Boris might be used. As Boris already has been, ever if oh so ineffectively.

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Again, Bonner played SF situationally as well, but he was never a three. Hell, Duncan played some minutes at SF next to Dave and Perdue, but no one thought he was a combo-forward. It's not enough to play a couple minutes here and there in abnormal lineups. Green's not a power-forward even though he played small-ball four quite a few times when Kawhi went out. No one even considers him an option there. When you're going five deep at one position to try to move a point, it rings really hallow.

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Originally Posted by DPG21920

Boris coming into the leage and even now is so much more athletic than KA and it's not really close.

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Coming in to the league yes, but look go watch some videos of both Boris and Kyle and there really isn't a huge difference right now. Anderson looks worse because he's playing the point/wing and going up against quicker players on both ends. When we watch him we also compare him to what other players in those positions can do in similar situations, like changing direction, and he looks like he's running in molasses.

Put him in the same position and ask him to do the same things as Diaw and you won't notice much difference in quickness. The difference is Diaws excellent footwork and heft to play the 4, neither of which Anderson has. They are both things he could acquire though, he has all the same 'unteachable' qualities that Diaw possesses.

I wonder if part of the reason KA is too slow, is that he thinks too much, and is part of his reaction as a coach's son. This is usually a positive, but maybe KA is too much coach, and not enough player at times.

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Originally Posted by Darkwaters

Rasual Butler and Tayshaun Prince are the two names I've heard the most. Anyone else you can think of? Dorrell Wright maybe?

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Shooting is the biggest need, so I can't see them signing Prince. I'd rather Wright over Butler, but I have the feeling it'll be Butler or, probably more likely if he looks capable of still being an NBA player, Delfino.

Garcia looked terrible in limited viewing last season, but I'm still surprised at how quickly he appears to have fallen off the radar.


As far as Anderson, he reminds me of a lesser version of Turner. Not good enough on the ball to run a team, but doesn't have the game to effectively play off the ball.

I don't even know that he could effectively transition to PF. Sure, he could get by in certain match-ups, but I don't know that he has the frame to put on the necessary strength to play it full time.

It's a long season and considering whatever wing they bring in, is going to be a minimal type, I'm sure Anderson will get a shot, but I can't imagine him being a rotation player next season. He not only doesn't look like one, but his game isn't any better a fit with Ginobili's than it was a year ago.

Sign Jarell Eddie, NOW :lobt2:

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Originally Posted by Obstructed_View

He drew fouls with a few of his blocked shots, so is that a good thing?

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Don't worry, Manu will start over Anderson.

Thanks for the post!

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Originally Posted by Beaverfuzz

Don't worry, Manu will start over Anderson.

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What does that even mean?

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Originally Posted by Obstructed_View

What does that even mean?

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It means whatever you want it to mean.

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Originally Posted by ElNono

I don't know about that. Look at Boban, or even other cases like Gino or Scola... the thing though is that you need to play and be a standout in the better leagues/tournaments.

I'm not sure Asvel is ever going to play a Euroleague Finals, or something like that, where you see the kind of talent and fierce competition that you need.

On the other hand, they probably make more money over there than in the NBDL...

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anybody improves with experience... but its arguable if europe is the best avenue. manu improved over time there, but maybe he could have been even better if he was playing in the US the whole time

Always a pleasure reading timvp's analyses. :toast