After Four Games: Scouting the 2015 Spurs Summer League Team

So, you're saying Diaw did cover Lebron quite a bit in 2013, but anyone could have, so those minutes don't count. And, he only covered him in 3/5 of the games in 2014, 2/3 we won, even though he was ineffective. Three games, again, he did cover him.

And some more stuff about Diaw not being effective out on the perimeter, and Lebron is a special case, which I conceded from the very beginning. A bigger 3, small ball four, that still draws Kawhi as a cover.

Where did I say he was going to guard those quick threes on playoff teams? I used a playoff example that everyone is aware of, but have often mentioned regular season, back to backs, etc. It's like the exact opposite of what I said. Just about the textbook definition of a strawman you have constructed to tear down.

Green, Manu, Simmons, Anderson, Diaw
Green, Manu, Anderson, Simmons, Diaw
Green, Manu, Simmons, Diaw, Anderson

Etc.

I thought that was pretty clear. But, you conveniently imply that I think Diaw will be tasked to guard quick perimeter 3's?!

Anderson won't be guarding them very effectively, either. He will only be effective, if at all, situationally, against slower guys, yet we're calling him a 3. He's not going to be very effective against the faster 3's on the perimeter. Still, again, we're gonna call him a 3. And, you yourself were just arguing that Boris was a far superior athlete to Anderson (clearly he was). He still compares favorably with Anderson depending upon what his weight comes in at. As Anderson will struggle with those quick SF, so will BoBo, which is why those won't be the situations where they'll be used.

The first two guys in each scenario would be Green and Manu. If they're not available, Simmons. If they are a slower, older, less-skilled, and or larger 3, KA or Boris might be used. As Boris already has been, ever if oh so ineffectively.

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Originally Posted by Chinook

Diaw still has a tremendous size:agility ratio. He's also pretty damned athletic when he wants to be, as evidenced by his chase-down blocks last season. He's not able to play the three like some folks on here think he can, but he's still a match-up problem physically.

I don't see any way that Anderson could gain enough weight to be a post scorer while also being able to drive. And I definitely don't think the key to him having a future in the NBA is him lowering his already-low agility and playing against guys who are his own size. He would have no advantages at that point.

Kyle will never be a guy who can consistently get around his defenders. So he has to learn to go over them or through them. That's going to have to come from a commitment to playing ugly basketball and waging a psychological battle with everyone he goes up against. It's an attitude thing because he already has the skill-set to be that guy from what I've seen.

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Diaw is not as athletic as you make him out to be. Here's a video of possibly Diaw's greatest moments, against the Thunder in 2014

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LODvBdcLAlw

Only once in that entire 15 minute montage does Diaw drive and actually get to the rim. Every other time he drives from the perimeter he gets to a post position and begins playing with his back to the basket. He is an excellent post player and can get to the rim after positing up because his size forces his defender off balance, but that's more to do with smart post play than it is athleticism.

When we watch Kyle Anderson highlights, he's being guarded by a wing player and he's trying to get to the rim off the dribble, which he can't do. Ask him to do what Boris does and he is athletic enough, simply because nothing Boris does requires athleticism. Anderson could gain 30lbs and be able to get to the same spots as Boris did against the Thunder, but he can only do it if he becomes as strong and as good a shooter as Boris. Diaw was hitting 3's at 40% in 2014, and that is how Boris was able to attack closeouts to get to his spots. Without the shooting his effectiveness really takes a hit.

Boris was never athletic enough to play as a wing in the NBA, he's been a power forward since he got to Phoenix. I don't question that Diaw had vertical hops that Anderson will never have, but lateral quickness? Anderson isn't as far behind him as you think, even from when Boris was 230. Andersons only future in the league is as a power forward.

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Originally Posted by Richie

Diaw is not as athletic as you make him out to be. Here's a video of possibly Diaw's greatest moments, against the Thunder in 2014

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Dude, against the Thunder, Diaw was almost always being guarded by smaller guys, so off course he was going to play in the post. Diaw is a brilliant post player. His BBIQ plays into that, but he's also very bulky -- much more bulky than Anderson can really ever hope of being. Diaw's versatility lies in the fact that he is extremely agile for his size. Anderson is extremely unagile for his size, and his body type makes him a poor post scorer (for the same reason that plague's Durant). It's really hard for anyone who's tall and skinny to back someone down, because they lack leverage. The same reason why Green was able to stonewall Durant in the post in the WCF is why Anderson could be shut down by pretty much anyone is that's what made or broke his game.

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When we watch Kyle Anderson highlights, he's being guarded by a wing player and he's trying to get to the rim off the dribble, which he can't do. Ask him to do what Boris does and he is athletic enough, simply because nothing Boris does requires athleticism. Anderson could gain 30lbs and be able to get to the same spots as Boris did against the Thunder, but he can only do it if he becomes as strong and as good a shooter as Boris. Diaw was hitting 3's at 40% in 2014, and that is how Boris was able to attack closeouts to get to his spots. Without the shooting his effectiveness really takes a hit.

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Of course it does. That's like saying ballet doesn't require athleticism. Balance, coordination and agility are things that Diaw has from his time as a small. And they are invaluable to his ability to get around bigger players. I agree that shooting is critical to Anderson's ability to score, because he's not going to get a ton of layups off the dribble. But

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Boris was never athletic enough to play as a wing in the NBA, he's been a power forward since he got to Phoenix. I don't question that Diaw had vertical hops that Anderson will never have, but lateral quickness? Anderson isn't as far behind him as you think, even from when Boris was 230. Andersons only future in the league is as a power forward.

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Diaw's 6-9 with great post instincts. He was always going to be a forward in the league. But you're dead wrong on his lateral quickness. He used to be a perimeter defender, which is something Anderson doesn't have. And he's still very good at hedging and switching. Anderson being 240 or whatever won't do anything but slow him down more. He won't have any advantage anywhere on the court. Right now, he's still taller than almost anyone who would guard him, which is huge for someone on the perimeter. He can shoot over his man. If he had to play against PFs? No. And he wouldn't be more agile than them, either. And he couldn't have Diaw's base. He really would just drop out of the league.

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Originally Posted by Chinook

Dude, against the Thunder, Diaw was almost always being guarded by smaller guys, so off course he was going to play in the post. Diaw is a brilliant post player. His BBIQ plays into that, but he's also very bulky -- much more bulky than Anderson can really ever hope of being. Diaw's versatility lies in the fact that he is extremely agile for his size. Anderson is extremely unagile for his size, and his body type makes him a poor post scorer (for the same reason that plague's Durant). It's really hard for anyone who's tall and skinny to back someone down, because they lack leverage. The same reason why Green was able to stonewall Durant in the post in the WCF is why Anderson could be shut down by pretty much anyone is that's what made or broke his game.



Of course it does. That's like saying ballet doesn't require athleticism. Balance, coordination and agility are things that Diaw has from his time as a small. And they are invaluable to his ability to get around bigger players. I agree that shooting is critical to Anderson's ability to score, because he's not going to get a ton of layups off the dribble. But



Diaw's 6-9 with great post instincts. He was always going to be a forward in the league. But you're dead wrong on his lateral quickness. He used to be a perimeter defender, which is something Anderson doesn't have. And he's still very good at hedging and switching. Anderson being 240 or whatever won't do anything but slow him down more. He won't have any advantage anywhere on the court. Right now, he's still taller than almost anyone who would guard him, which is huge for someone on the perimeter. He can shoot over his man. If he had to play against PFs? No. And he wouldn't be more agile than them, either. And he couldn't have Diaw's base. He really would just drop out of the league.

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I think you underestimate Anderson. He's already 230 which is 15lbs heavier than Diaw and Durant were when they entered the league. If he can't put on Diaw-like weight, something a player like Austin Daye really struggled with, then he will be out of the league. I don't really know why you think it's impossible though.

His height and reach advantage over smaller players is meaningless if they are running circles around him. Most if not all wings in this league could blow past him to the rim and if he hangs back enough to protect the paint they can pull up for a jumpshot. We could probably put him on one dimensional players are dare them to shoot (ala Tony Allen) but that's about it.

Boris beats opposing big men with great footwork and ball handling for a player his size, not his agility. He's not blowing by them, he's getting them off balance and taking advantage. Anderson has a LONG way to go in replicating that, but what makes Boris so unique is that combination of court vision, awareness, passing and handles for a player that size, the kind of things you can't really teach, and Anderson has all those same attributes. The balance and coordination you mention are also attributes which Anderson has in spades, again rare for a player his size.

Boris coming into the leage and even now is so much more athletic than KA and it's not really close.

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Originally Posted by littlecoyotecoin

So, you're saying Diaw did cover Lebron quite a bit in 2013, but anyone could have, so those minutes don't count.

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Is this how this post is going to be (I'm multi-quoting, so I don't really know yet)? No, I am saying that anyone DID cover James well in those games. Do you know how people don't talk about Diaw on James in the final two games of that series? It's because Diaw wasn't good in those games. He wasn't good when James got out of his own head and just attacked Diaw. Kawhi was still good. Danny was still good, but Diaw wasn't. And Manu wasn't. And Neal wasn't. The Spurs weren't able to get away with just throwing anyone out there after that.

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And, he only covered him in 3/5 of the games in 2014, 2/3 we won, even though he was ineffective. Three games, again, he did cover him.

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He wasn't just ineffective. He was awful. He gave up 1.7 PPP. That's an 80-plus TS%. It was ghastly.

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A bigger 3, small ball four, that still draws Kawhi as a cover.

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So like who? Marcus Morris and James Johnson? That's the best I got, and Diaw wasn't on either of those guys unless they were fours. But if Diaw can't even guard Butler, then he can't play the three. That should just be the end of the conversation right there.

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But, you conveniently imply that I think Diaw will be tasked to guard quick perimeter 3's?!

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Said that threes tend to be quick, perimeter players now, especially bench threes.

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Anderson won't be guarding them very effectively, either. He will only be effective, if at all, situationally, against slower guys, yet we're calling him a 3.

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Yeah, that's not the consensus.

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The first two guys in each scenario would be Green and Manu. If they're not available, Simmons. If they are a slower, older, less-skilled, and or larger 3, KA or Boris might be used. As Boris already has been, ever if oh so ineffectively.

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Again, Bonner played SF situationally as well, but he was never a three. Hell, Duncan played some minutes at SF next to Dave and Perdue, but no one thought he was a combo-forward. It's not enough to play a couple minutes here and there in abnormal lineups. Green's not a power-forward even though he played small-ball four quite a few times when Kawhi went out. No one even considers him an option there. When you're going five deep at one position to try to move a point, it rings really hallow.

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Originally Posted by DPG21920

Boris coming into the leage and even now is so much more athletic than KA and it's not really close.

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Coming in to the league yes, but look go watch some videos of both Boris and Kyle and there really isn't a huge difference right now. Anderson looks worse because he's playing the point/wing and going up against quicker players on both ends. When we watch him we also compare him to what other players in those positions can do in similar situations, like changing direction, and he looks like he's running in molasses.

Put him in the same position and ask him to do the same things as Diaw and you won't notice much difference in quickness. The difference is Diaws excellent footwork and heft to play the 4, neither of which Anderson has. They are both things he could acquire though, he has all the same 'unteachable' qualities that Diaw possesses.

I wonder if part of the reason KA is too slow, is that he thinks too much, and is part of his reaction as a coach's son. This is usually a positive, but maybe KA is too much coach, and not enough player at times.

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Originally Posted by Darkwaters

Rasual Butler and Tayshaun Prince are the two names I've heard the most. Anyone else you can think of? Dorrell Wright maybe?

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Shooting is the biggest need, so I can't see them signing Prince. I'd rather Wright over Butler, but I have the feeling it'll be Butler or, probably more likely if he looks capable of still being an NBA player, Delfino.

Garcia looked terrible in limited viewing last season, but I'm still surprised at how quickly he appears to have fallen off the radar.


As far as Anderson, he reminds me of a lesser version of Turner. Not good enough on the ball to run a team, but doesn't have the game to effectively play off the ball.

I don't even know that he could effectively transition to PF. Sure, he could get by in certain match-ups, but I don't know that he has the frame to put on the necessary strength to play it full time.

It's a long season and considering whatever wing they bring in, is going to be a minimal type, I'm sure Anderson will get a shot, but I can't imagine him being a rotation player next season. He not only doesn't look like one, but his game isn't any better a fit with Ginobili's than it was a year ago.

Sign Jarell Eddie, NOW :lobt2:

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Originally Posted by Obstructed_View

He drew fouls with a few of his blocked shots, so is that a good thing?

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Don't worry, Manu will start over Anderson.

Thanks for the post!

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Originally Posted by Beaverfuzz

Don't worry, Manu will start over Anderson.

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What does that even mean?

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Originally Posted by Obstructed_View

What does that even mean?

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It means whatever you want it to mean.

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Originally Posted by ElNono

I don't know about that. Look at Boban, or even other cases like Gino or Scola... the thing though is that you need to play and be a standout in the better leagues/tournaments.

I'm not sure Asvel is ever going to play a Euroleague Finals, or something like that, where you see the kind of talent and fierce competition that you need.

On the other hand, they probably make more money over there than in the NBDL...

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anybody improves with experience... but its arguable if europe is the best avenue. manu improved over time there, but maybe he could have been even better if he was playing in the US the whole time

Always a pleasure reading timvp's analyses. :toast