If SA had to pick one, which and why?
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If SA had to pick one, which and why?
mix them to get one of the Sanderson witches from Hocus Pocus. They can fly.
Simmons.we need another guy who can create offense by penetrating and either finishing at the basket or collapsing the defense and kicking the ball out.
With the bigs we have, they can all shoot from outside, he can be a huge asset with the spacing they will create. He also seems to have a toughness to him that will serve the team well. It is definately early but I think he has thre skill set to make an impact this year.
If the Spurs had to pick one I think they would go with KA, younger with higher potential...but they don't have to pick.
Anderson.
We have at the moment NO one who's capable of playing the 3 other than Opa. Always fill roster holes. Plus, we don't know how Simmons game will transfer to the League.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cry Havoc
True.... But we do know how andersons game translated to the league and it was historically bad.
Historically bad? Really? That's a bit of a stretch. If he was historically bad the Spurs wouldn't have brought him back. He didn't play that many minutes, because honestly, how many rookies are going to see serious time on a championship contender?Quote:
Originally Posted by steeledl
He looked lost out there and outmatched. While you don't expect all rookies to light the league on fire, he was pretty abysmal by any standard. Obviously he has room to improve but no way he is going from what he was last year to a good option as a rotation player in one years time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cry Havoc
Anderson. Seen him play against legit NBA talent and has even flashed some real talent when he was given the chance. Not to mention he is 4 years younger.
Matt bonner
Because I'm bored:
Simmons fills a short term need.
Anderson I think has a higher ceiling.
What do you mean by better?
Both are different players who have different strengths and weaknesses.
You can't quantify better by strictly scoring or points. It's all about who fits the needs of the team better.
But for right now, it's hard to say.
I think Simmons defends the PnR better and he has the ability/potential to guard three positions well -- therefore I give Simmons the nod if you're looking for more perimeter defense.
Also think Simmons works the PnR better offensively and is a better spot up shooter -- which will be valuable when Manu has the keys and valuable when Manu needs to take a play off.
On the other hand, Kyle's strengths come in isolations from the high post/ mid range area-- where he can dominate his defender with his length offensively.
He's also a good rebounder for his size thanks to his length -- which should help the second unit's ability to close up defensive possessions.
However, unlike Simmons, Anderson's not a great PnR guy and he's a below average spot up shooter.
All I know is I'm happy Spurs have this competition going into training camp. Simmons has been a pleasant surprise and I'm sure whoever does earn the minutes will be productive in limited minutes.
The thing is, he only needs to be decent for 10-15 minutes a game. I think he can accomplish that. 10 minutes per isn't something I'd call a rotation player as his minutes can easily be gobbled once the playoff begins.Quote:
Originally Posted by steeledl
I think you seriously underestimate the strides players can make after their rookie season. This dude is barely old enough to drink.
What?Quote:
Originally Posted by Cry Havoc
Neither one.
20 year old rookie didn't instantly understand the Spurs offensive and defensive schemes...oh noes he's never going to make it in the NBA.Quote:
Originally Posted by steeledl
Anderson, he is younger and we already have lots of scorers.
Tbh, I doubt anderson has the skill set to be a good player in the league. I think the things he is able to be successful at on offense against less talented/skilled/athletic players in summer league and d league won't work in the NBA . He needs to become a knock down shooter to have a impact and he isn't close to that yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cry Havoc
On defense, I think he will be a huge liability trying to guard the PnR. As much as I dislike his game, I hope I am wrong and that he turns into a player for the sake of the team but I don't see it at all .
Have to go with KA. I like them both and they are different players, but KA ceiling is higher, he's younger, has improved and still room to grow, could also potentially slide to play both forward positions as a stretch 4 w/ ball handling and playmaking. He's very versatile. He will end up being the better player imo. You can easily find the Simmons of the league around, but KA is pretty unique.
yep, that was the only problem :rolleyesQuote:
Originally Posted by SnakeBoy
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Body
Kawhi?Quote:
Originally Posted by Chinook
A "good" player would imply he's better than average. If this were the case there would be no way to keep him as someone would grab him for a starter. I would be happy if he settles in as an average player. It would be more than adequate for someone like that to play 10-15 for us behind the best young SF in the league.Quote:
Originally Posted by steeledl
:jack
I'd rather have Rasho Nesterovic
That's actually the only way to quantify. With numbers. :lolQuote:
Originally Posted by MaNu4Tres
Not that. How do you figure Leonard (and Anderson) is the only guy who can play the three?Quote:
Originally Posted by Cry Havoc
Reliably? Who else do you see? Manu? I wouldn't want to put his 40 year old legs up against SFs in the West playoffs. Just asking for him to be worn down to a nub again.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chinook
We're talking backup SFs here. Who has a bench three that's going to give Manu trouble? And of those threes, who can Anderson guard that Simmons can't?Quote:
Originally Posted by Cry Havoc
I think the value w/ Simmons could be that he could guard the best perimeter player off the opposing bench -- whether its a PG, SG, SF. Which in turn, could relieve Manu/Mills from having a mismatch. With Anderson your perimeter defense is left vulnerable to a degree.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chinook
Green can also play SF when Kawhi goes to the bench.
Yeah, I think Simmons can check Brewer, Barnes and Stephenson, in so far as Leonard and Green don't. No one has a Lebron coming off their bench, or even a Rudy Gay. If we're talking defense, I'd prefer Simmons until Anderson shows he can defender wings at the NBA level.Quote:
Originally Posted by MaNu4Tres
several playoff teams have upgraded their bench. Clippers w/ Paul Pierce and Lance Stephenson figure to be problematic. I'd say Simmons could possibly handle most bench assignments. If rebounding is an issue I'd give the nudge to Anderson. I also think KA is the better help defender and can contest shots a lot better with his length. If you are having to contain someone like Austin Rivers though, Simmons is your man. We will see how it plays out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chinook
Season can't start soon enough.
Regardless, I think in competitive games Green and Leonard will play over 34-35 mpg each and Pop will probably stagger their minutes so that one of them is always on the floor. In these games, Manu wil probably be playing the remaining minutes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chinook
Think the only times Kyle or Simmons gets playing time is if there's an injury, if there's foul trouble, if the game is noncompetitive or if Pop sits Green ,Leonard or Manu in a back 2 back situation.
On the fence. I'd have to flip a coin.
Pop likes defined roles. I expect Kyle to be the designated Kawhi backup when the season starts and it will be up to him to keep that role. As far as Simmons, there's many scenarios where he'll get minutes in the back court. Tony and Manu will likely be on a minute limit, besides rest here or there. Patty probably will need some rest for that shoulder here or there too. Manu will also likely see some of his limited minutes with the starters. That opens up some minutes for Simmons at the two. When Tony/Manu/Patty are available, they will be small, but otherwise, he'll have ample time to show what he has.
I don't disagree entirely with this premise, but I don't think that will apply during the regular season. At least not until March or so...Quote:
Originally Posted by MaNu4Tres
The only chance Simmons is able to stay in the floor is if he plays great defense and passes the ball well in offense. If the intends to dribble and dunk the ball, Pop will throw him out of the arena.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElNono
ILL put it to you this other way, there is no way I can see Simmons giving KA any sort of trouble in a scrimmage. Dude is too crafty, sneaky, and tall for a defender like Simmons to handle him. Heck, we saw he did whatever the heck he wanted against Hollis Jefferson. On the other end, I could see KA giving a Simmons trouble, grabbing rebounds, knocking balls out w his length from Simmons notoriously iffy handle, etc. Both guys will be situational, but there is no doubt in my mind, KA is the better player in the long run. But, Simmons being the better athlete can possibly handle your Austin Rivers, Norris Cole types out there.
He's the 5th guard, tbh... we're not sure yet he'll do well in the majors... it's a low risk, high reward move from the Spurs. I see if more as having Manu groom him into that backup two role. If he embraces it, I think he has enough talent to stick in the league.Quote:
Originally Posted by ceperez
I agree. I'm thinking big picture (playoffs, big games). The times when the rotation has to be optimally confined. Pop will probably go 9 deep then.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElNono
In regular season, going through east coast swings ( Philly, Det, Boston, ect), I'm sure Pop will utilize as much of the roster as he can as he always does.
Draft-express says about Hollis-Jefferson:Quote:
Originally Posted by SAGirl
"Hollis-Jefferson was one of the best defenders in college basketball, and will need to make his mark on this end of the court at the next level as well. While he guarded multiple positions in college, he was best matched up against wings, where he can match their quickness and bother them with his strength and wingspan. He is locked in on this end of the court, taking pride in shutting down the opponent's best scorer. He moves his feet well to stay in front of dribble penetration and can finish the play with a strong contest of the shot, blocking 1.1 shots per 40 minutes pace adjusted. "
So a guy who takes pride with his defense couldn't shutdown Mr. Anderson. Nice!!!
Some would say that last season he experimented for too long. What's real is that both Kyle and Simmons will have ample opportunity to show what they have, especially early on.Quote:
Originally Posted by MaNu4Tres
That's the big question, will Anderson or Simmons have enough playing time?Quote:
Originally Posted by ElNono
The rotation still needs to become comfortable with playing with Aldridge and West. So a lot of time is going to be spent just getting familiar with these two.
The playoff rotation will involve the following:
Parker, Green, Leonard, Aldridge, Duncan, Ginobii, Mills, Diaw and West. 9 players.
McCallum will eat up minutes in regular season just like Joseph did. He's the only other PG other than Parker.
There will be minutes for Boban, for times that Duncan is resting.
Simmons may get some burn if they rest Ginobili a lot.
So it looks like KA is odd man out... unless he is KL's backup.
I just wonder how Pop will figure out the best combination... there's just too much talent in the team.
His strengths will lead to a bunch of inefficient shots and his offense doesn't get his teammates open shots. That's the benefit of Simmons play. He'll he's a piece of the bench puzzle who can attack quickly and dish to West, Diaw, Manu, or Patty. The team is centered around ball movement not isolation. If Spurs want a player from the bench to isolate that player will be Diaw. As you said KA is a below average shooter so when he's not ball stopping the offense with a mediocre isolation he won't be as valuable to other players penetrating and passing.Quote:
Originally Posted by MaNu4Tres
It's a good problem to have. I'm just hoping one of the two makes it in the NBA as a rotation player. That's far from guaranteed but these Vegas games have increased that hope.
I think the challenge with grading either is that we've seen so little of them against real NBA competition. I hate to say Simmons because literally less than a week ago I had no idea who he was. But in the limited minutes I've seen, he has flashed enough of a well-rounded skill set, athleticism, and tenacity to make me think he's going to be the better pro. I think Kyle can also be great in the right role, but I don't know how much his lack of athleticism and a reliable jump shot will limit his potential.
Hopefully they grow into equally badass, but different role players for the Spurs in the future. I really enjoy watching them play off each other.
Paul Pierce might give Manu trouble, even though he's old too and strictly a perimeter player at this stage in his career. As for Anderson, his lack of speed concerns me more on the defensive end.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chinook
Simmons. The dude is 6'6 of course he can play the 3.
I actually think Manu should be the one to guard Pierce (though Paul is almost certainly starting). I'd much rather have one tough savvy vet check another than letting a young player draw fouls due to their inexperience.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpurPadre
This is how you end up with Spurs fans rooting against individual players.
I think anyone who says Kyle hasn't watched him run the court against other real nba players last season
In the playoffs and if Pierce is starting ( which is likely),Pierce shouldn't be a concern. If anything Spurs should bait the Clippers to give him the touches he wants tbh..Quote:
Originally Posted by Chinook
The problem the Spurs have is when CP3 and Griffin have the ball and are creating the offense 100% of the time theyre on the floor -- much tougher to guard than Pierce.
It's one thing for them to start Barnes and defend Kawhi, but I can't believe they would start Pierce against the Spurs, especially in the playoffs. Kawhi would terrorize him on both ends.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chinook
THIS, although I hate Bonner on my own volition.Quote:
Originally Posted by Obstructed_View
Simmons>Anderson. I think KA is 1-2 years away from being an NBA player, and I still don't know exactly how his skill set fits into this team. Simmons' skill set is just too perfect for what SA needs.
The Spurs also need to replace Cojo's defense, I always felt his defense was overrated and it had more to do with Leonard-Green making him look better than he actually was, Simmons should be able to step in and replace that. Simmons has that quickness to guard these quick explosive guards while having a huge size advantage.
KA has higher potential but right now I'd go with Simmons because his game is ready made for the Spurs as it is. KA's game is more unorthodox and we have enough figuring out to do with our other recent acquisitions and this isn't a rebuild year.
Kyle shot something like 7-17, but being the undisputed first option is going to net you some points regardless. However, I still think Kyle did a great job applying his tempo to the game, making it HIS game.Quote:
Originally Posted by ceperez
If he can translate that control to the bench unit, it might cause problems for opposing benches and their sparks.
This dude keeps it 100.Quote:
Originally Posted by 100%duncan
Decisions, decisions...
One comes with expectation being a first round pick, there's an assumption he's better...
The other has had to take what's his like my hero Khaleesi going after King's Landing...
One makes me chub with his awkward offense and hopeful defense...
The other makes blood charge to my south pole with his pick pocketing defense and Ginobili beta offense...
They are too different to compare... cannot compute... cannot compute...
fifyQuote:
Originally Posted by 100%duncan
:lol
Can't teach quickness son.Quote:
Originally Posted by spurraider21
i know, i was jes trollinQuote:
Originally Posted by 100%duncan
i'm part of the vicarage of simmons
I understand the cautious concern many of you have with Simmons but some of the assessments I've seen are darn right awful. Simmons is capable of playing the 3, he is a better defender, and he's just as crafty with the ball in his hand. But again, I often feel like I'm watching a totally different sport than many of the posters here. Especially when I see the ridiculous takes.
Kyle Anderson doesn't even have a clear role on this team. His role will never be clear as long as the big 3 are still here. Why? Because he's stuck in wonderland when the ball isn't in his hands, and he's too slow to stay in front of any SF. All in all, I still like his skill set as a player. He's just not needed and is a redundant piece at this point. Especially with Manu, Boris, and possibly Simmons being able to do what he does better and more effectively.
Simmons is 25 and nobody has thought he was worth any NBA contract until now. So maybe, just maybe, he's not as good as you think he is.Quote:
Originally Posted by spursince#99
Anderson has more potential to be the all around better role player. He has the size and skills needed to successfully stick in the NBA. He just needs to develop confidence and get comfortable in the Spurs system. The Spurs have the hardest playbook in the NBA. To ask a rookie to grasp all the nuances of veterans playing together for years is asking for quite a bit. I liked what I saw from him in the summer league so far. He has asserted himself and improved his game. He looks like he is comfortable out there. I don't think it would be a stretch to say he dramatically improves this year. I like Simmons and his athleticism but he seems to me to be more of a role as a energy player rather than a consistent rotation player. I really don't know how many minutes he is going to be getting but it is not going to be a lot. Pop has a very short tolerance for mistakes and while he is athletic, he has a tendency to turn the ball over and I can see him getting yanked quick if he does.
I agree with you here. Kyle Anderson is so unconventional that it is unclear where he fits within the Spurs offense.Quote:
Originally Posted by spursince#99
His best position appears to be what Manu or Boris do. They don't bring up the ball, however they orchestrate the half court offense. With both Manu and Boris on the 2nd team, I just don't see how the team needs a third orchestrator.
you think Kyle anderson can orchestrate half court offense .......:lmaoQuote:
Originally Posted by ceperez
Simmons 100%.
Kawhi is probably an option In Pop's mind in terms of Perimeter playmaking. We saw him did it last year.
It's probably going to be Parker-Manu-Mills-Kawhi-Anderson in terms of permiter play-making.
Kawhi played significantly with the bench in the last couple month of the season last year..Should be a good 4th playmaking option.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JakeCuenca
KL is great... but he hasn't yet learned how to run an offense.
Or maybe, just maybe, not all capable NBA players are given a shot until later in their career.Quote:
Originally Posted by SnakeBoy
Watch Simmons.... very impressive!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1yF8HYs8h8
Notice how he beats 2 defenders. Also he goes either left or right. Slashes and dishes out.... just perfect for the Spurs.
Meanwhile... Anderson is beating up everyone at the block:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88os5pjIEa0
I don't know how this translates to the NBA.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ceperez
Future 6th man candidate. Danny Green better hope Chip doesn't have him knocking down the 3 ball at a 40% clip.
Not saying Simmons is going to be a future HOF but Kurt Warner was bagging groceries at 24 and playing in the arena league at 25. Peoples lives and careers often follow different paths to success. Bruce Bowen didn't get an NBA look until he was 26 and he did okay for himself too.Quote:
Originally Posted by SnakeBoy
I don't know if it is just the weak summer league defense, but this guy is just laying it up against opponents!Quote:
Originally Posted by spursince#99
Simmons just didn't get the opportunities when he was younger. He barely got out of high school. 2 years in community college. Never got drafted. Played in some bush league somewhere. Out of plain chance, he was picked up by the Toros. That's where he learned his craft.... 2 years in the Toros. Without that development, he would just be another 6'5" player.Quote:
Originally Posted by steeledl
I hope his upward trajectory is still building momentum and he keeps progressing at this rate now that he is getting put in this position with world class coaching and talent around him. Sometimes not having the easy path can make you hungrier than others for success.Quote:
Originally Posted by ceperez
Kind of like Bruce Bowen.Quote:
Originally Posted by steeledl
Let's see how Simmons plays when the regular season starts and he is up against NBA caliber players. Then we will find out if he can really play at the NBA level.
Theres a lot of forgetful optimists running around come SL time...Quote:
Originally Posted by 100%duncan
The original question is obviously loaded. But it's very hard to answer. Anderson and Simmons are hugely different players with different skill sets.
Who has the most potential upside? Kyle Anderson. Hes just so unique and unusual....and still very young to boot. Hes already showing good leadership skills and has a very high BBIQ. And considering how his game basically relies on athleticism to no degree he could have a very long career once he cracks the code - if he cracks it.
Who has the most usefulness immediately? Jonathon Simmons. Anderson left the team with so many questions last year after some consistently terrible outings. He showed flashes at times, but not nearly often enough. He has a lot of major problems that will require him to rework his game. Simmons on the other hand seems to have it all. Decent defense and capable distance shooting. Hes a super athlete that can drive left, or right, and pass on the move. Euro step? Check. Hesitation? Check. I don't think anyone knows what his ceiling is but he could be a nice little sparkplug right away in limited minutes and will be able to guard opposing benches 2's and 3's (and maybe even some 1's).
And anderson is a better option?Quote:
Originally Posted by ceperez
This isn't about kawhi. when you're evaluating possiblities, you look at sample sizes. Kawhi has played as a perimter playmaker in a spurs system multiple times, anderson hasn't.
No one is saying to make Kawhi the number 1 playmaker, this is about who would take away some playmaking responsilbies from manu...
Or Gary Neal.Quote:
Originally Posted by ceperez
So are you saying that you're smarter because you are a pessimist?Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkwaters
Not even remotely true. You can teach quickness, explosiveness, reactive strength and power.Quote:
Originally Posted by 100%duncan
Charles Barkley: JA-NO-BUH--wait...that's a black guy. Who he play for before da Spurs?Quote:
Originally Posted by ceperez
Neither has shown something good above the D-League or summer league level. Simmons just hasn't played at a higher level and Anderson rookie season with Spurs was underwhelming. Given the huge gap between Summer league/D-League and the NBA, it's nearly impossible to make projections based on their current performance. Both are huge question marks that are from sure of being able to contribute with Spurs.
Hey I've become a Simmons fan during this SL and hope he thrives in the NBA...but the topic is would you keep KA or Simmons if you had choose. If PATFO called every team in the league and told them they had to get rid of one of the two and to pick one, every other FO in the league would pick KA.Quote:
Originally Posted by spursince#99
I am amazed by the full confidence many of you have on Anderson. He is the weak link on that second unit. Matter of fact, I'm disappointed he's still on team.
I don't see how saying a guy has huge potential is the same as having full confidence. Most lottery picks never live up to their potential.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kikoluna
Simmons is the kind of player that I like. He's athletic, can drive and get to the rim and finish with either hand. He also seems to play defense and isn't too bad of a passer either. That's the kind of player that I like at SG/SF. I've felt the last few years since Manu has changed up his game and stopped driving to the rack as much as in his early days, I've really felt that the Spurs needed another player that can do this.
Right now it's just D-League and Summer League, but I really hope that Simmons can keep improving by working on his ball handling, shooting and also on being a more fundamental defender. If he can really work hard at improving on the things he does well, then I think he has a chance of being an NBA player. I hope that his game can/will translate to the NBA level.
Wow, people are making projections left and right based on summer league level basketball. :lol
Kyle is 21. Did that as a HS and college player, was successful, a McDonald's all american, five star, state champion, division champion at UCLA as the best player in that team, you name it. There is a reason they have him doing what he is doing in SL and winning with him as the leader. Offense goes through him. Obviously that is a far cry from what he will be doing in the bench. But he has been a competitor and a winner at every stage. We are privileged to have gotten him at 30 and that is how the Spurs organization feels about it. Aside from being the best player on the SL team, he does control the tempo. The SL team is his team. Simmons is the 6th man from the bench. Eddie is your designated shooter. He will not play like this in the bench this season, but he can have nights when he will go off and do things like this. If you have him in your bench, he will make plays. If he has made contested shots, how do you think he won't make open shots? Unbelievable... Last year he played little but when he was in the rotation in Dec. He was balling. Made good decisions with the ball, had a terrific assist to TO ratio, and made good decisions on which shots to take, created for teammates, but whatever. Some people will only see his slowmo and there won't be any convincing them. I don't know if KA will make the rotation, but obviously RC saw there was no need to keep looking. Simmons brings athleticism and that is valuable, but no need to make it seem like KA can't ball.Quote:
Originally Posted by ceperez
No you cant if you aint athletic you aint.Quote:
Originally Posted by tholdren
Sign-off and comeback in the regular season if you don't want to see projections based on summer league. You should expect nothing less than this type of discussion. Probably the best discussion topic you're going to find after the draft and beginning part of free agent signings.Quote:
Originally Posted by JakeCuenca