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By resume, I'd say Rodman (I don't think Dominique counts). By consistency, I say Elliott. My favorite, probably Cummings. I was pulling for Dwayne, but cocaine is a helluva drug...Quote:
Originally Posted by tholdren
I assume we aren't counting Timmy, as David was probably Timmy's second option.
Could we all agree that tim had and has 4-6 players on his team better than Elliott for the duration of his career?Quote:
Originally Posted by SPURt
http://memecrunch.com/meme/PSLB/agreed/image.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by tholdren
Thanks man. I agree that the rule changes hurt D-Robs defensive numbers, but man it would have opened things up wide open on offense. Forgot to also mention David's left-handedness which was just another physical advantage he had. One of the things I hate about all the Lebron>MJ talk is honestly I don't think Bron has surpassed David yet. Both extremely gifted athletes who needed another great player to win. Difference is I think prime Dave is a much more versatile and consistent scorer than LBJ. And on defense its not even close Dave brings so much more to that end.Quote:
Originally Posted by SPURt
People either just tend to forget things over time or they simply are too young to have experienced them. It's that simple, especially with Spurs fans. We are a spoiled, spoiled bunch thanks to the likes of David and Tim.
Fortunately I've been able to follow the Spurs since right before David arrived, during the 2 year military service between draft day in '87 and his first game. What a time to be a Spurs fan. The buzz in San Antonio was amazing. The anticipation of Big Dave's arrival had the city excited. It's just too bad the ownership/management of the Spurs were, quite frankly, idiots at the time. They basically trashed David's prime years. It's also too bad, from the perspective of a "selfish" Spurs fan, that David spent those two years between college and the NBA finishing up his military commitment. Just look at Anthony Davis right now. He's the closest thing I've seen to David Robinson since those early 90's years. A combination of prime Amare Stoudemire and prime Dwight Howard....only more athletic. What could David have done with two more years in the NBA following college, when he was 22, 23 and 24 years old? It stands to reason that he would have been a more polished player offensively at age 24. We would have seen two more years of him with youth, athleticism and probably health. We'll never know.....
This is a fascinating thought experiment, though. How would they have done if you switched them without changing the teammates? Tim would have most definitely fit in quite nicely during the NBA's golden era of big men. The 90's were stacked with great centers and power forwards. He would have been right at the top of the list with Ewing, Orlando Magic Shaq, Hakeem, Alonzo, Karl Malone, Barkley, Mutombo and the rest of the great big men from that era. No doubt. David would have THRIVED in the NBA of the 2000's, post rule change as well. It's been an athlete's league ever since, and with the lack of quality centers? I can't imagine how crazy his career would have been. His jumper was not "serviceable", as one poster put it earlier. What a slight. David had an excellent jump shot. It was soft and had lots of arc. It was much more text book than Tim's. Another slight was his apparent lack of ability to lead an offense. While no Duncan (obviously), he LED THE LEAGUE IN SCORING one year!!! He was in the top ten in scoring almost every year during his prime. Duncan is an all time great offensive big man, but don't discount the Admiral's ability to be a first option. He was a freak of nature.
When you compare the actual Spurs teams that surrounded the two over their careers you really can't help but laugh. David's supporting cast was a joke. Plain and simple. As good as Sean ever was, he was no prime Ginobili, Parker or Kawhi. Good offensive player that had the three ball and could slash and defend, but he never had that kind of impact. The other role players on Tim's teams were a perfect fit for what they did. Horry was great, as was Kerr. Brent Barry, Michael Finley, Danny Green, Patty Mills, Stephen Jackson....the Duncan led Spurs have been pretty well built. If you substitute big Dave into those teams, the dynamic definitely changes, but not all that much. David was a very good passer out of the post. If he had more slashers and shooters, the double and triple teams of the playoffs don't come as often. Big Dave's one on one ability was off the charts. Hell, in '92 when the USA Basketball selection committee was making their pics....it went like this:
Michael Jordan
Magic Johnson
Larry Bird
........then David Robinson.
They picked him before Barkley. Before Malone. Before Ewing, Drexler, Pippen....all of them.
Yes, he was THAT good. Duncan will be remembered for his freakish longevity, his basketball acumen and his amazing offensive set. His career is easily better than David's. This is a team game, though, and Duncan has almost always been blessed with a good to great group of teammates. Coaching? Please. We definitely don't need to go there. Take away Dave's military commitment and give him Duncan's supporting cast/coaching staff, and we'd all have a much different opinion of the Admiral.
He wins multiple championships if he was in Duncan's place all these years. Easily.
Only one of those four was playing on HOF level in 2003.Quote:
Originally Posted by SPURt
I don't want to take anything away from the admiral but I would say that the 2003 team was weaker on paper than some of the 90s teams (before duncan obv.).Quote:
Originally Posted by RoyerReptiles
And when exactly were the rule changes implemented?
Very easy. Switch Del Negro and and Avery in 95 with Manu and Parker and they win.
Anyone questioning Robinsons's greatness should spend some time on basketball-reference.com. I has season tickets back then so I remember. While it's true that DRob didn't play well in pressure , he had no help. Give him someone like Manu in 2005 and a good coach and it's a different story. I always felt like in crunch time he had all the weight on him. Even the Hakeem Rockets had guys going nuts from the 3pt, but Robinson never had that support.
Don't ever forget that Vinny Del Negro was the starting SG on those teams. He wouldn't even be on the bench of today's Spurs. The talent gap is pretty huge.
Tim Duncan's game is that of a well-rounded super center
While David Robinson, my first favorite player, is more of a super-athletic forward
I think Robinson may be the first coming of Anthony Davis, just my opinion.....
If is true that DRob never had a go to move that he could rely on in pressure situations. He managed to score a ton of points on athletic ability, kind of like Amare, but that doesn't work as well in the playoffs. But he was a great defensive player. I also think that winning was never that important to him. Duncan is really ultra-competitive.
i just realized how crucial a center is in the game of basketball:
asssuming that DRob was a power forward (lack of the low post game), then the COMBINED titles of 3 super forwards: Robinson before Duncan, Dirk and the Minnesota Garnett is ONE!
one title only, wow............
whereas a "center" is a lock-in for multiple titles:
Chamberlain (multiple titles), so is
Russell
Shaq
Hakeem
Kareem
Walton
and of course, Duncan.....
that's why teams are built around centers.....
Duncan is clearly better
now, lets move on and discuss, who is better, our beloved Duncan or the immortal Hakeem The Dream?????
THAT IS THE REAL QUESTION!
Perhaps the question of who is the best center of all time will have no resolution!
But good for basketball theoreticians through the ages to come (assuming that Earth continues in its present state, lol).
1) Chamberlain ?????
2) Russell ?????
3) Shaq ??????
4) Hakeem ??????
5) Kareem ??????
6) Sabonis (whole body of work) ?????
Arvydas Sabonis makes the case as the most talented player of all time, taking everything into consideration.....
Imagine an all time draft and Pop selects Sabonis as number one of all time! lol
(Someone should ask him this question)
watch this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUz3C0p-Yso
Lol. OP is a faggot.
The younger people might not remember, but while they were playing, it was open for debate whether DRob or Hakeem was better. It was only after the 95 playoffs when people perceived that Hakeem outplayed him, that everyone ranked Olajuwon higher. And that is ridiculous for many reasons. If you look at MVP voting, Allstar selections, and statistics, Robinson was neck and neck or even slightly ahead of all centers throughout the 90's. He led the league in scoring, rebounding, blocks multiple times. He would sometimes get 10 or 11 blocks in a single game etc.
History remembers things different than they were perceived at the time. But those of is that lived through it remember the truth.
My teammate and colleague Tim Duncan, is the best big since Jabar. I would say his success would have translated into any decade.
I would like to see a prime Robinson murder Dwight Howard.
Duncan, no question. Better career, better stats, more jewelry. Next. Don't get me wrong, Hakeem had 2 seasons where he was awesome and borderline unstoppable but lets not get things twisted. Duncan has had sustained success at a very high level for the entirety of his career.Quote:
Originally Posted by tatteredprince
Robinson could haul stats like crazy, but he was not the reliable scorer that Duncan was. Duncan was unstoppable in his prime. Also Duncan was a clutch performer. I still have a box of VHS tapes of old spurs and random NBA games (Including every game of every post-season spurs championship run) and I can say Robinson was one of the elite, however Duncan in his prime was a defferent breed of beast.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tmtcsc
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Good point.
However, if they switched teams, what do you think? (If Hakeem was with the Spurs, would have been mind boggling)
this book should be updated:
http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/whos...=9780071417884
:lol Hakeem without shooters around him?Quote:
Originally Posted by tatteredprince