I think Hakeem/TD were more fundamentally sound and relied on good footwork while DR relied more on his athleticism.
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I think Hakeem/TD were more fundamentally sound and relied on good footwork while DR relied more on his athleticism.
The question being discussed here is not who is better, clearly Duncan. It's whether Robinson could have won a championship in his prime with Duncan's supporting cast. And I think he could have.
David was a center, 7'1 built like Lebron. What are yall talking about calling him a power forward and comparing him to the defenseless Amare?
From NBA.com, as far as the rule changes go:Quote:
Originally Posted by dgspursforlife
"In 1999, the league eliminated contact by a defender with his hands and forearms both in the backcourt and frontcourt, except on offensive players who caught the ball below the free throw line extended. Defenses were also prohibited from "re-routing" players off the ball. This freed up perimeter players who used screens to get open. Nor were defenders able any more to grab or impede offensive players setting screens. In 2001, the defensive three-second rule eliminated defenders camping out in the lane away from their offensive man to help"
These rules hinder the athletically challenged basketball player, creating the small-ball bonanza we see today. David was an oddity: A 7 foot, one inch super athlete who was generally the best athlete on the floor every night. He is arguably the most athletically gifted (size, strength and speed) player we've ever seen in the NBA besides Lebron James.
http://www.nba.com/2009/news/feature...idge.defenses/
To address the point of the 2003 team.....I have to disagree. I mean, seriously, call it what you want, but that 2003 team went through the three time defending champs and a SOLID Dallas Mavericks team to win the title. That was no fluke. Duncan lovers like to give him the bulk of the credit....and while he had an all time great playoff performance, that team played great in the playoffs. Role players stepped up when they needed to, time and time again, unlike the role players from the 90's teams with Robinson. THAT'S been the main difference between the two eras (Robinson led and Duncan led)....the "others", as Shaq likes to call them.
Just take a look at the role players on the Duncan led 2003 title team:
Robinson (yes, aged, but probably still better than any big man Robinson ever teamed up with in his prime, including a headcase Rodman or an older version of Terry Cummings
Bruce Bowen: As good as Sean ****** was, he was NOT the defender that Bruce was
Manu Ginobili: Young version, but was already considered the best player in Europe at the time. Very good backup shooting guard, and already better than Del Negro.
Stephen Jackson: clutch. Seriously. Very. Clutch. He thrived in the clutch.
Steve Kerr: older, no doubt, but did you see that game six in the 2003 WCF against Dallas?
Tony Parker: young version, but man, this guy was fast, fast, FAST. Even at this stage he had his moments. He miffed in the finals against a superior point guard in Kidd, but then we had....
Speedy Claxton: probably better than every point guard David had in his prime, besides Avery and Rod Strickland. And he was the backup. Remember, there were times when Del Negro ran the point for San Antonio. Ugh.
Malik Rose: I actually miss Rose. This guy was a work horse.
Steve Smith: tail end of his career, but a great vet for the bench
Kevin Willis: Even though he was 40, this guy was a GREAT backup center. He was necessary against those Shaq led Lakers in the semi-finals.
I take that team over every single 90's team, especially with Pop as the coach.
Rob, do you yell "Odoyle Rules!" when riding away on your scooter?Quote:
Originally Posted by RD2191
The bigs Mount Rushmore is:
Wilt, Russell, Abdul-Jabbar, Duncan.
Hey boo!Quote:
Originally Posted by RD2191
When you say jewelry, are you using championships as your guide? For whatever reason, and I believe it's people getting caught up in the ESPN pundit rating system that puts so much emphasis on 'chips, people just seem to put that category at the top of the list when comparing NBA superstars. If this was tennis or golf, I could see it, but this is a team game. The performance of an individual in a championship or playoff situation is important, but I really believe people need to be careful when using the 'chip as the ultimate guideline for ranking players.Quote:
Originally Posted by tmtcsc
But let's get down to brass tacks on Olajuwon vs. Duncan. You said better career. I can lean that way, but only slightly because of Duncan's longevity and the better teams/coaching he's had. Duncan has him beat in regular season MVPs at 2 to 1, but Olajuwon has what Duncan never got....and that's a defensive player of the year award. He got two of them, actually. Hell, he won MVP AND Defensive player of the year during the same year....along with Final's MVP. Only player to do that. If he had better teams over his career, like Duncan, he probably would have more final's MVPs. Olajuwon was about as good as a two way player as you're gonna get in the NBA, on a similar level to Jordan.
Olajuwon led the league in rebounding twice: '89, '90
led the league in blocks three times: '90, '91, '93
all time leader in blocks over a career at 3,830.
all time leading center in steals.
His career averages over his 18 year career are: 22.5 ppg, 11.4 rpg, 2.5 apg, 1.7 spg and 3.1 bpg.
Duncan's career averages (so far) over 18 years are: 19.5 ppg, 11.0 rpg, 3.1 apg, 0.7 spg and 2.2 bpg.
Duncan gets the Assists per game title over Olajuwon, but the other 4 categories per game belong to the Dream.
Duncan finished his 18th season and Olajuwon played 18, so comparing careers is actually a bit more doable than a lot of other comparisons. After 18 seasons they compare like this:
Duncan games played: 1,331 Olajuwon: 1,238
Duncan points: 25,974 Olajuwon: 26,946
Duncan rebounds: 14,644 Olajuwon: 13,748
Duncan assists: 4,062 Olajuwon: 3,058
Duncan steals: 978 Olajuwon: 2,162
Duncan blocks: 2942 Olajuwon: 3,830
Duncan has him in total assists and rebounds, but not by a lot considering he played roughly 100 more games so far. Olajuwon's block and steal totals are STAGGERING!!! He outscored Duncan as well. Being a follower of the NBA since the late 80's and seeing the stat machines that Big Dave and Hakeem were for fantasy bball teams, I had to call out your "better stats" comment. Olajuwon's stats over an 18 year career were mind boggling. I can't imagine what they'd be like if he didn't play those last two years.
Duncan definitely has him on longevity, but man, don't discount arguably the greatest center of all time (arguably....he's top 3 or 4 for sure.)
He couldn't even win March Madness (college) with a first ballot NBA Hall-of-Famer (Clyde Drexler) beside him.Quote:
Originally Posted by RoyerReptiles
I forgot, 2003 had five HOF's, two in their prime. Some bad takes in this thread, but RoyerReptiles bringing the goods. Duncan has had a better career than every center except arguably Kareem and Russell. I still have a hard time picking against Duncan, one more chip and he and Jordan have had the two best modern careers. So much is still circumstance. Even Jordan needed Phil and Pippen.Quote:
Originally Posted by RoyerReptiles
What?Quote:
Originally Posted by SPURt
Pop and Duncan, though Pop just keeps getting better.Quote:
Originally Posted by BG_Spurs_Fan
:lol Pop of 2003 was in his prime? Don't be ridiculous. Spurs of 2003 had no system, had the ups and downs of a rebuilding team, which they were. They just had an incredible Duncan to drag them to a title while having 7 of their top 9 playoff performers shoot 40% or less throughout the playoffs. 2003 was all Duncan, Pop was just there like everyone else.Quote:
Originally Posted by SPURt
Good thing Tim benched Tony, good thing Tim drafted Tony and Manu, good thing Tim inserted a veteran on his last leg and Tim hit all those threes to get the Spurs past the Mavs. You're right Tim was totally alone. After six years of coaching, Pop was totally inept as a coach, good thing Tim was there to bail him out! Lol!Quote:
Originally Posted by BG_Spurs_Fan
I was just curious as to how you found out that Jordan lobbied for Robinson to be on the Dream Team. Thanks for the info.Quote:
Originally Posted by Phenomanul
even though robinson has better individual stats?Quote:
Originally Posted by SPURt
Are you stating that in your voice or misunderstanding my position?Quote:
Originally Posted by tholdren
I have no idea what you were saying in that last postQuote:
Originally Posted by SPURt
I was chiming in on the Dream versus Duncan debate (confusingly, my bad). I was making a comment that circumstance contributes to career success.Quote:
Originally Posted by tholdren
the first sentence was a defense of the 2003 champs. People saying Avery/Del Negro backcourt led teams were better with the likes of Bob Hill on the sideline.
In one of the interviews when both of them were inducted into the HOF.Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver&Black Warrior
David Robinson was soft.:p:
It's much easier to elevate the play of Ginobili, Parker, Kerr, Elie, Leonard, Green, Bowen than it is to elevate the play of Elliott (loved him, but he is no Ginobili), Johnson, Del Negro and Daniels.Quote:
Originally Posted by T_L_P
I think The Spurs would have beaten the Rockets. Not sure if Drob would have won in the 2000s but If Drob was in today's NBA mannnnnn the fast game Drob would dominate
F op and F anyone disrespecting DROB. We owe everything we have right now to that dude. Real talk
haveen't been reading this thread, but if they switched duncan would have still been here in 2004 and 2005 and they would have 3-peated.