If David Robinson and Tim Duncan Switched...

Drob would murder the league playing with the teammates Timmy has had. And as all time great as Timmy is, there's not a player in existence that could have dragged those 90s Spurs teams much further in the playoffs than Drob was able to manage.

I don't necessarily think that a Drob 2000s+ era Spurs team would have won more titles than Timmy managed, but there's definitely no reason to think they would have won less.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by capek

Drob would murder the league playing with the teammates Timmy has had. And as all time great as Timmy is, there's not a player in existence that could have dragged those 90s Spurs teams much further in the playoffs than Drob was able to manage.

I don't necessarily think that a Drob 2000s+ era Spurs team would have won more titles than Timmy managed, but there's definitely no reason to think they would have won less.

---

they probably win 2004 because timmy would be here and maybe more overall in the early 2000s. Probably don't win in 2014 though.

I followed Robinson since his rookie year when I was in junior high, and I must say he was the better overall player. He was like the ultimate fantasy basketball pick. He was the best overall player in the NBA for a long time as far as total overall stats. In his prime, he won the IBM award 5 times. Robinson was easily the best all-around player in the league during his prime. He did literally EVERYTHING well. There were other centers that were good scorers, rebounders, defenders, playmakers, shotblockers etc, but Robinson was awesome at everything. He was like a Dwight Howard/Anthony Davis hybrid. Too bad he didn't get much of a supporting cast of players to play around him...

"The IBM Award, created to honor the player who contributes most to his team's overall success, utilizes a computer evaluation of key offensive and defensive statistics to determine an overall leader. The formula is as follows: Player Pts. -- FGA+REB+AST+STL+BL-PF-TO+(team wins x 10)x250
Team Pts. -- FGA+REB+AST+STL+BL-PF-TO"

IBM AWARD WINNERS
Season, Player, Team
1983-84 Magic Johnson, L.A. Lakers
1984-85 Michael Jordan, Chicago
1985-86 Charles Barkley, Philadelphia
1986-87 Charles Barkley, Philadelphia
1987-88 Charles Barkley, Philadelphia
1988-89 Michael Jordan, Chicago
1989-90 David Robinson, San Antonio
1990-91 David Robinson, San Antonio
1991-92 Dennis Rodman, Detroit
1992-93 Hakeem Olajuwon, Houston
1993-94 David Robinson, San Antonio
1994-95 David Robinson, San Antonio
1995-96 David Robinson, San Antonio
1996-97 Grant Hill, Detroit
1997-98 Karl Malone, Utah
1998-99 Dikembe Mutombo, Atlanta
1999-2000 Shaquille O'Neal, L.A. Lakers
2000-01 Shaquille O'Neal, L.A. Lakers
2001-02 Tim Duncan, San Antonio

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by barbacoataco

The younger people might not remember, but while they were playing, it was open for debate whether DRob or Hakeem was better. It was only after the 95 playoffs when people perceived that Hakeem outplayed him, that everyone ranked Olajuwon higher. And that is ridiculous for many reasons. If you look at MVP voting, Allstar selections, and statistics, Robinson was neck and neck or even slightly ahead of all centers throughout the 90's. He led the league in scoring, rebounding, blocks multiple times. He would sometimes get 10 or 11 blocks in a single game etc.

History remembers things different than they were perceived at the time. But those of is that lived through it remember the truth.

---

If you swap Robinson and Hakeem in '95 the Rockets sweep the Spurs.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by G-Dawgg

I followed Robinson since his rookie year when I was in junior high, and I must say he was the better overall player. He was like the ultimate fantasy basketball pick. He was the best overall player in the NBA for a long time as far as total overall stats. In his prime, he won the IBM award 5 times. Robinson was easily the best all-around player in the league during his prime. He did literally EVERYTHING well. There were other centers that were good scorers, rebounders, defenders, playmakers, shotblockers etc, but Robinson was awesome at everything. He was like a Dwight Howard/Anthony Davis hybrid. Too bad he didn't get much of a supporting cast of players to play around him...

"The IBM Award, created to honor the player who contributes most to his team's overall success, utilizes a computer evaluation of key offensive and defensive statistics to determine an overall leader

---

But how good was he overall?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tholdren

If Tim and David Switched eras they played, and all other things stayed the same (teammates/opponents/etc) would the franchise have won more or less rings and who would have had the better career?


I would assume that a majority think Tim is the better player due to rings?

Interestingly enough David is 4th all time in PER, while Duncan is 13

Win Shares Per 48 has David 2nd all time behind Jordan by .0003, while Duncan is 12.

Numbers wise Robinson looks to be well ahead of Tim...

Thoughts?

---

This just demonstrates that statistics are not determinative of ultimate success.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aztecfan03

they probably win 2004 because timmy would be here and maybe more overall in the early 2000s. Probably don't win in 2014 though.

---

Sounds reasonable, though for me it's too much speculation. Maybe more modern medical techniques allow Drob to extend his career. I don't feel like looking up Drob's mpg by season, but I'm sure he didn't get the minutes treatment Pop has given to his players. Maybe being on Pop's minutes regime would also have helped extend his career.

And maybe it works in the opposite direction for Timmy. Without the modern medicine and training regimes, and playing heavier minutes throughout his career, Timmy doesn't last as long.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by capek

Sounds reasonable, though for me it's too much speculation. Maybe more modern medical techniques allow Drob to extend his career. I don't feel like looking up Drob's mpg by season, but I'm sure he didn't get the minutes treatment Pop has given to his players. Maybe being on Pop's minutes regime would also have helped extend his career.

And maybe it works in the opposite direction for Timmy. Without the modern medicine and training regimes, and playing heavier minutes throughout his career, Timmy doesn't last as long.

---

Drob relied heavily on his super athletic abilities and those type of players tend to burn out quicker than guys who don't rely on athleticism. If you look at bigs who were able to play at a high level at old age such as Parish,Kareem, they all had one thing in common which was that they were not super athletic to begin with. Look at guys such as Webber,Amare,Kemp,McDyees, once these guys hit 30 that's when they started suffering from a bunch of injuries. It will be interesting to see if modern medicine will be able to extend Blake Griffin's career beyond the age of 30.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by daslicer

Drob relied heavily on his super athletic abilities and those type of players tend to burn out quicker than guys who don't rely on athleticism. If you look at bigs who were able to play at a high level at old age such as Parish,Kareem, they all had one thing in common which was that they were not super athletic to begin with. Look at guys such as Webber,Amare,Kemp,McDyees, once these guys hit 30 that's when they started suffering from a bunch of injuries. It will be interesting to see if modern medicine will be able to extend Blake Griffin's career beyond the age of 30.

---

But none of those players had their minutes managed for most of their career like Pop has done with his players. It's just an unknown, how that would effect the career of a player of Drob's caliber.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by capek

But none of those players had their minutes managed for most of their career like Pop has done with his players. It's just an unknown, how that would effect the career of a player of Drob's caliber.

---

They both played a heavy amount of minutes at the start of their careers. Also Drob's career average for minutes is 34.7 while Duncan's career average is 34.4 minutes. So its pretty much the same. I think it was inevitable for Drob to have more injuries towards the end of his career due to his game relying heavily on athleticism nothing would have changed it.

It all comes down to the post game for me. Duncan is the superior post player, and that ends the discussion for me. Robinson was a super-athlete and good at everything, but in order to be successful at basketball, you don't need to be good at everything. You just need to be excellent at a few things. Duncan became the best post player, best rebounder (with Garnett), and best defensive anchor in the league, and that's why he dominated the league.

And the fact that he did it without being a super-athlete, for me, makes it even more impressive. I really appreciate players who just have pure skill and don't rely on their athleticism.

With that said, Robinson was fucking amazing and is definitely underrated by most.

Drob didn't make his teammats better like Duncan...